:-) Re: Alarmclock puzzle
Alexander Frøyseth wrote: Hello again I just have an idea for an nice addon or software (call it what you want) to the alarmclock Okey, let me tell a little story from real life. Every day when I go to school, I have to wake up, and now I have 2 alarmclocks, but still I manage to oversleep. Soo what I was thinking about was that I have to solve a puzzle to turn the alarmclock off, and not just push a button. One possibility is a 4 bits jigsaw puzzle like this: http://www.bimbambanana.com/index.php?p=Puzzle-alarm-clock-cool-gadgetsside=visProdprod_id=21 another, and perhaps an more easy to make is that the screen shows fours digits that you have to click in right order to turn it off. Perhaps like an antibot test on websites. I am more as an web programmer, so I isent so good to program software. NOTE: You have to have the choice to turn this on and off when you sets the clock Hope that someone think this is a good idea, and tries to program one. Alexander Frøyseth ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I would like something that tightens Spacetime a little bit so I can sleep an hour or two longer. Someone to implement it on Openmoko? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
offtopic again :-) Re: Alarmclock puzzle
I hate waking up so much that I would prefer only doing it under anaesthesia. Alexander Frøyseth wrote: Hello again I just have an idea for an nice addon or software (call it what you want) to the alarmclock Okey, let me tell a little story from real life. Every day when I go to school, I have to wake up, and now I have 2 alarmclocks, but still I manage to oversleep. Soo what I was thinking about was that I have to solve a puzzle to turn the alarmclock off, and not just push a button. One possibility is a 4 bits jigsaw puzzle like this: http://www.bimbambanana.com/index.php?p=Puzzle-alarm-clock-cool-gadgetsside=visProdprod_id=21 another, and perhaps an more easy to make is that the screen shows fours digits that you have to click in right order to turn it off. Perhaps like an antibot test on websites. I am more as an web programmer, so I isent so good to program software. NOTE: You have to have the choice to turn this on and off when you sets the clock Hope that someone think this is a good idea, and tries to program one. Alexander Frøyseth ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS research project topic
Hi, I am developing a map viewer application called Yama. It is planned to work on the Neo. You can see it working on http://yamamap.org/ with a piece of map from http://openstreetmap.org/. It is written in Java so it is very easy to prototype on PC. If you write software that requires showing locations on a map we could work together. If you specify how you could use a map viewer we culd create an interface so you can use it as a plugin or you can plug into it. Geert Schuring is working on location sharing through network:http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/visualgps/ http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/gpslocationsharing I (as Yama's developer) am willing to cooperate with their project. You could check these projects and think about how you could use them. Best Regards Schmidt András simarillion wrote: Hi community, I'm studying electrical engineering at Karlsruhe University in Germany and I nearly finished. Now I have to do a student research project and because I'm a big fan of the openmoko/freerunner project I want to combine this. I've got an offer from an Institude to do something like that. I must give them a topic that must contain research and the GPS. Now is the question, what research with the freerunner and it's GPS device can I do that would help the openmoko community and seems to be something that institute would support. It should not be only writing a gui or something like that. I have got to improve, develop, add or optimize something. This project should last between 3 and 6 months. I'am also trying hard to be allowed to give my research solution back to the community, as kind of code or information. I'm looking forward to free my phone and support the project All the best, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ugliness (was Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!)
I myself and all people I talked to think that that the black one has no style. Also the orange-white looks cool. It is not a blocker for me but would be for an average user who is not Open fan. Fancy color case is a must in the future. Stroller wrote: On 25 Apr 2008, at 16:25, Lowell Higley wrote: Nine out of ten typical consumers I show it to think it's ugly and wouldn't buy it because of looks alone. If I show it to a techie type, I get the what are the specs? question. Lesson? To the consumer, beauty is only skin deep. This is typical of the consumer, though (and of the place the mobile phone has taken in the mainstream, of reflecting the owner's personality). At the end of the day, there are a hundred mobile phone designs on the market - and for probably this reason. Substantially all mobile phones do the same thing - make receive calls - and I guess appearance is a primary differentiation. If your one consumer in ten finds the Freerunner acceptable (or even, shudder!, attractive) enough to that they'll buy it, then Freerunner surely has a far greater market interest than most mobiles! It's all a matter of taste and I'll bet there are very few phones on the market which would be _universally_ considered non-ugly. We should also remember that OpenMoko is probably not aiming at the girlie market, of consumers for whom appearance and daintiness is the primary concern. I am reminded of a girl I knew two or three years ago who was pleased with her new mobile - it was a small clamshell design with a second screen on the outside; the outer screen showed the time or, when it rang, the caller's name or number. A screen saver was available for both screens - floating pink pastel bubbles were chosen. When making calls is the only function then I do like small phones, but the aforementioned girlie phone had no features that appealed to me over any of the other clamshell designs available on the market for the past decade. The Freerunner is surely aimed to compete with phones based on Windows Moble Symbian - phones on which email, calendaring media playback are important features (it may even compete, then, with the PSP). The Freerunner will be replacing a Sony Ericsson P990i http://www.cellphonebeat.com/images/p990i_.jpg here - now THAT'S a phone which could barely be more ugly, but nevertheless it sold well on its features (and besides, ugliness is STILL only an opinion). Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ugliness (was Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!)
Stroller wrote: Hi there, I fixed your top-posting problem for you. You can see the correct posting order at the bottom of this message. On 26 Apr 2008, at 12:44, Schmidt András wrote: Stroller wrote: On 25 Apr 2008, at 16:25, Lowell Higley wrote: Nine out of ten typical consumers I show it to think it's ugly and wouldn't buy it because of looks alone. If I show it to a techie type, I get the what are the specs? question. Lesson? To the consumer, beauty is only skin deep. ... At the end of the day, there are a hundred mobile phone designs on the market - and for probably this reason. Substantially all mobile phones do the same thing - make receive calls - and I guess appearance is a primary differentiation. If your one consumer in ten finds the Freerunner acceptable (or even, shudder!, attractive) enough to that they'll buy it, then Freerunner surely has a far greater market interest than most mobiles! It's all a matter of taste and I'll bet there are very few phones on the market which would be _universally_ considered non-ugly. I myself and all people I talked to think that that the black one has no style. Also the orange-white looks cool. It is not a blocker for me but would be for an average user who is not Open fan. Fancy color case is a must in the future. Perhaps I didn't make my point very clearly. You are an individual, and there are about 6,500,000,000 other individuals just like you, except with slightly differing tastes. If you take all the other phones on the market then yourself and all people you talk to will also think that almost all of them have no style. This is the nature of individual taste. For each every person there's a mobile phone (painter, musician, design of rug) that is just perfect, and I doubt if yourself and all people you talk to will universally agree on all these things. I, personally, think the stealth Freerunner looks GREAT, but I don't think that's the most important factor. Yes, the majority of mainstream consumers care only about the appearance, but even if 5% of consumers buy according to features then that is a MASSIVE worldwide market. I am pretty sure that FIC didn't get an amateur to design the Freerunner's case. They didn't get a twelve year-old to design it, and they didn't buy an electronics enclosure off-the-shelf from Radio Shack http://www.polycase.com/images/cache/qs-group-category-0-0.jpg. So please don't be offended but saying I don't like it and neither do my friends is totally irrelevant - come back when you've interviewed a hundred different people and they've scored the Freerunner (alongside several other phones) in a range of 1 - 10 on size, colour, design attractiveness, comfort-to-hold and so on. You need to establish with each respondent why they chose their last phone - was price a factor? features? You can probably rule out everyone who got their phone free from their mobile supplier, because the Freerunner's market is those who are prepared to pay a premium for the features they want in a phone. Now interview another 100 people, those who are prepared to pay a premium for the features they want in a smart- or business-phone - do they find the Freerunner attractive or ugly? Do they care? Not wanting to uncover a mound of sleeping proverbial here, but the Freerunner's lack of a camera is probably far more important to the Freerunner's buyers. And since we can't change the colour of the first 1,000 or 10,000 Freerunners, bitching about the colour might as well go the same place as the I want a camera thread - dead buried. Stroller. Please don't feel offended. I have tried to emphasise that it is just (some friends' and) my opinion. I did not state that Openmoko is wrong. I like the business model that individual companies can provide different color and shaped cases. What I stated is that to sell a mass of phones some fancy cases will have to be on the market. Buying a replacement case will not be a problem for users that was the business model for many phones and it worked. I myself prefer hacking software so I will not create any but may buy one if I find the one I like for sale. Regards Schmidt András ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Why the hell would a geek buy a shiny crap that can play f***ing top hits and show some idiot web pages for 400$. Who cares them??? Features are not why I am interested in Openmoko. Yet unimplemented features are what makes me interested. A geek needs something hackable. Something with replacable software. Limited SDK-s, restrictive license and paying for features that are already implemented by the free world is not what people like here. It is all about freedom and openness. It is so free that you are free not to understand. Fredrik Markström wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
I disagree with that GSM phone is dying. In Europe almost everyone over 12 has a GSM phone and use it every day. How can you state it is dying? On the other hand noone knows what would happen to the Internet if all those people would choose to use VOIP instead of PSTN (Public switched telephone network). The two networks have completely different characteristics and PSTN is better for voice communication. Schmidt András ramsesoriginal wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Stefano Cavallari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (sorry for the length of this message) I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no longer existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore. So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the Internet, then do whatever you want from there. Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is in doing VoIP and IM. Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and just provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi, bluetooth). Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones). I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already USB UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a bluetooth-serial chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses). This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the ear (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing). You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on. Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you still have the main product (the handheld) selling well. Just my (long) 2 ¢ -- I have always been a big fan of the maximum modularity and abstraction, and I totally agree on this part of your idea. I also agree that the telephone system is a dying system, but since all of your friends/family use it, and since we stil have no real mobile alternative, i think its a bit to early for throwing away the whole gsm parts. And that's why I like modularity: like you said, every one can choose wether to have gsm, wifi, wimax, umts, or a some sort of star trek transponder. But since this would be a complete redesign of the system, and a reinvention of the concept of mobile handheld. The idea is really innovative, but difficult. Sure nothing to produce after the gta3, but maybe to start developing.Ideally the modularity could be extendend to some sort of wireless, maybe bluetooth. btw, we already discussed a modular design some time ago... but I don't remember how we decided. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qwerty keyboard concept
Hi! I was thinking much about a qwerty keyboard that can be easily used on the small touch screen of OpenMoko with just your fingers. After some thinking I have come up with an idea. To proove my concept I have also implemented it. The implementation is Java+SWT so you will have to install Jalimo in order to make it work on your phone. You should run it landscape. It can be executed on your desktop too. You can find the idea, code, binary, screenshot and howto here: http://www.yamamap.org/keyboard.html It is just a proof of concept and I have coded it with a severe hangover... Please don't criticise the code itself :-). I would be happy if you try it and comment whether you find it usable or not. I have tried it on my PDA even with reduced size (approx the same size as OpenMoko's screen is) and it is quite usable finger only. Best regards Schmidt András ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qwerty keyboard concept
My bubble is off :-(. Yes it is the same. So Qtopia has it. It would be nice on OpenMoko too. andy selby wrote: Sorry to burst your bubble but the Qtopia release has this already, I haven't executed the program but it seems to be the same as qtopia's behaviour where you hold your finger on an area of the keyboard and a little circle comes up with an enlarged view of the keyboard so you can precisley select the letter you want. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
In PDA shops you can buy a bicycle mount for PDA's. I hope it will be compatible with the Neo. Joseph Reeves wrote: Dear all, Please excuse my blatant blog-promotion, but here's a short entry on my use of the Neo1973 and tangoGPS as a bicycle computer: http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/20080306 Cheers, Joseph ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
As the Neo's screen is pressure based (not capacitive) it could be possible to be used through a thin plastic layer. There are PDA bags which cover the touch screen and it still remains functional. David Pottage wrote: On Thu, March 6, 2008 12:11 pm, Schmidt András wrote: Joseph Reeves wrote: Dear all, Please excuse my blatant blog-promotion, but here's a short entry on my use of the Neo1973 and tangoGPS as a bicycle computer: http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/20080306 In PDA shops you can buy a bicycle mount for PDA's. I hope it will be compatible with the Neo. More of a problem is the fact that the Neo is not waterproof, and if you put it in a waterproof case, the touch screen can't be used. Perhaps it would be possible to attach a waterproof external keyboard via USB, and control the Neo using that. The keyboard cable would pass via a well sealed hole in a waterproof case. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dasher on OpenMoko?
Hi Charles, I am not sure I understand your post clearly. You want to access a telephone-modem using the GSM line of the OpenMoko (not an ADSL modem)? I am not an expert on this technology but I believe that is not possible. Modem's are designed to work over analog lines. They also work on digital lines which use about 8KHz mu-law or A-law encoded samples. That's a standard digital telephone line with bandwith of 64KBit/s . GSM is completely different. GSM uses a lossy compression algorithm for encoding voice so it uses 13KBit/s (or even less when there are bad signal conditions). The GSM codec is optimized for human voice not for music or modulated signs of a modem. That makes a GSM line totally unusable for a modem connection. The bandwidth of the GSM connection can be used directly to transfer digital data but that is another technology that has no connection with analog modem's. Regards Schmidt András Charles Edward Pax wrote: Hi, all. This is my first post, but I've been trying to follow neo/openmoko development for a while. I have a few questions Has anyone used gotten dasher running on OpenMoko? Is it possible to use a mobile phone to dial in to a dialup number I can use with a regular modem? My university has free dialup access and my mobile phone operator gives me unlimited minutes on evenings and weekends. I don't want to spend the extra money on a data plan, but I would like to have internet access on the go. I've tried to set this up with the phone I currently have, but it doesn't work. I suspect that it could be some sort of locked feature. I would purchase a new phone if it meant this would work. My ideal situation is to connect my powerbook to my mobile phone via bluetooth and connect my phone to my university via a regular dialup number. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -Charles Edward Pax ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Picture Viewer geocaching
David Samblas Martinez wrote: 24 hour of gps data log how big (in bytes or multiples) can be? I have no expercience with gps tracking so I hope I have not said any no sense idea That's easy to count. Let's say you log 100 bytes every second (that's more than enough for longitude, latitude, timestamp, velocity, height and some satellite information). Then that will be 60*60*24*100=864 bytes for a whole day. That's about 9M. If you just need location and timestamp then it is 16-20 bytes per sample and can be dramatically compacted using differential encoding. If you are interested in Geocaching you should check the Yama map viewer project: http://yamamap.wiki.sourceforge.net/ It has an online Demo applet here: http://yamamap.org/demo.php Schmidt András ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FAX2PDF with OpenMoko?
Nils Faerber wrote: Depends largely on the modem, i.e. if it can handle analog incoming fax transmissions. Sending analog FAX over a GSM line will not offer good results if it works at all. GSM codec is optimized for transmitting voice. The characteristics of GSM and the characteristics required by FAX is completely different. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Alarm clock (Re: Wiki - OpenMoko Community Applications)
I have re-read the wish list and community applications list and could not find a feature that I use on my current phone day to day. That is alarm clock. Or is it part of the calendar? Do you have any pointers to OpenMoko's alarm clock application? Or is it missing yet? It would be a nice hobby project :-) Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi JW, This is wonderful. Thanks for coming up with the idea and for implementing it. I look forward to seeing more applications on this page. Regards, Michael JW wrote: The Basic_End-user page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Basic_End-user The new OpenMoko Community Applications Page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Community_Applications JW ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List of Linux Cell Phones
Hi! So it is a list of GSM phones which are capable of running linux? Why is it important from OpenMoko's point of view? Are they capable of hosting the OpenMoko software? Or are they the concurrent hardware of Neo? I just don't understand what you mean. Best regards Michael Schmidt wrote: Hello here is a list of Linux cellular phones. Most of them have a camera build in. you can search for them at google or here: http://www.linuxdevices.com/ http://www.limofoundation.org/ Regards ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bike power (Re: solar power)
Marcel wrote: But you would really have to keep an eye on the overall ATP level, if it goes too low, there might something terrible happen... What does a body behave like on really low energy (ATP) levels? I am not a human body expert but my guess is: You get hungry and also your reserves are getting utilized (fat and muscle is burnt as well). SA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Bike power (Re: solar power)
Today we were talking about new generation of portable personal computers (yes, that is OpenMoko :-) with friends. Our idea was to use it as cyclocomputer (That idea has already appeared on the wiki or in the list somewhere). We were wondering whether it would be possible to charge the phone using a dynamo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamo). The dynamo uses the energy of the woman/man who rides the bike. It would be very useful on long nomad bike tours where we don't have any other power source. We did not compare the output of a dynamo to the charging current of a cell-phone yet, it is just an idea. fun I have another futuristic idea :-). It has no name yet... It is a chemical power generator that generates DC using ATP from blood (the power source of the muscles). Installing this device in our body would equip us with some plugs that could be used directly for powering these devices. It is two in one: prevents you from the problem of discharged accumulators and also prevents you from getting overweighted :-). /fun Happy hacking! Wolfgang Spraul wrote: Andy (or anyone else), if the whole back of the Neo would be a solar panel, and you would put it back side up into direct sunlight, say for 5 hours, how much could that charge the battery? Could you operate the phone without a battery (and without USB) power if you were standing in sunlight? Just curious, thanks for any answers, Wolfgang ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangoGPS, a new gps mapping software for the Neo
Hi community, Lionel Dricot wrote: - Any other Open Source GPS application in the field ? I am developing one: http://sf.net/projects/yamamap. See wiki on sourceforge for details. There is a demo on sourceforge but unluckily it does not work on the Linux devices yet (due to some incompatibilities in gnu classpath). You can try it on your PC. The current SVN version works over the Jalimo Java framework and will be released soon. It views vector based maps offline (stored on flash), and has an own format. Currently I am creating scripts for map compilation from OSM. When the scripts are ready I will announce that on this list. It is already reported to work on N810 and OpenMoko. (I have none of them yet :-(). There is a Windows Mobile port as well but I will not develop that any further. SA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wiki page - Problems of typical closed phones
Sorry, I have updated that. AFAIK: Here (in Hungary) it is illegal to unlock your phone. Certainly you can buy unlocked phone for a higher price, but unlocking already locked ones (by experts) is illegal. There are many people earning their money from this illegal activity though... Schmidt András Andy Powell wrote: On Sunday 03 February 2008 19:55, JW wrote: Hi Openmoko community I created a new page to list the problems of typical closed phones with the intention of informing potential Openmoko phone buyers. Please add your examples to the 4 I included as a starting point. Feedback welcome! :-) JW http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Problems_of_typical_%22closed%22_phones Well, first of all unlocking phones is NOT illegal - I have no idea where you got that from. Quite a few of the 'problems' you have pointed out are carrier issues not handset issues, ie it wont matter if you have a GTA01/02 or not. eg the use of voip software... Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Mono development in openmoko
Hi Juan, From technology side Java and C# is so similar that they should do the same performance. It is only Microsoft who is hyping that C# performs better. The only difference I know and has performance effect is the presence of structures in C# but not many programs would make an advantage of that. The performance of a specific implementation is a different question... I have no clue how Cacao compares to Mono. It would worth measuring... I have some experience with both languages as I am developing a map viewer application (http://yamamap.wiki.sourceforge.net/) that has a Mono and a Java version as well. The software is intended to work on OpenMoko. Both Mono and Java are available for OpenMoko. These are my own experiences: Mono: I have no phone yet, but David Roetzel has tried to run the yama application on the phone and it worked. In the mail there is a link to the original post, where Cliff Brake announces that the mono framework is ported for OpenMoko: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-December/012125.html Java: The Jalimo (https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Main_Page) project addresses porting Java SE to the phone. The JVM is Cacao and the classpath is the GNU classpath (Sebastian Mancke has written some guidelines for Java development on OpenMoko: http://lists.evolvis.org/pipermail/jalimo-info/2008-January/28.html). Cacao is compatible with Java 6 binaries and the GNU classpath is aiming the Java5 classpath. There are some details missing yet but it is possible to get a general purpose application that works with them. Latest versions of Yama works with GNU classpath but it was not tested on a GTA01 phone yet. So both Mono and Java is available on the phone. What I wanted to suggest is to consider using Java in case you know both technologies. I am so curious, may I ask you what are you planning to develop for the OpenMoko platform? Hope I could help you Schmidt András Juan Luis Prieto Martinez wrote: Hi all, I am very interesting in developing something for openmoko in mono, but I think that is not very popular at the moment, at least there aren´t so many comments about this theme in the list or the wiki. I would like to know if some of you have tried to develop anything using Mono. And if you need any special plugin or framework to do that. At least from my point of view the use of C# could be as interesting as the use of C or C++ and tools should be faster than python or java. Thanks Best Regards. -- JuanLu ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Mono development in openmoko
Hi, Juan! Juan Luis Prieto Martinez wrote: Hello Schmidt, Actually in hungarian we write our last name first :-). So my first name is András. I shoud have written it in english as András Schmidt. I just mentioned it because I found this combination funny :-). For me it is not a problem to use Java in stead of Mono, I use to develop in Java but my curiosity for Mono is only to learn it, just that. About what I want to develop I am not sure at all, may be I should start joining an existent project at least to learn how to develop for this device. Actually I am usign the emulator because I don´t have a neo either. When developing in Java or .NET there is not much difference between a PC or a PDA. You have to design your UI to be usable on a small touch screen without a stylus. You also have to restrict yourself to use less resources of course. The APIs are the same as on PC (the only difference I know is the .NET binding for mokoui) and also the same binaries should work. So I am just testing the application on my PC. And as testers have experienced it just works on the phone. The project I have initiated is a map viewer application for the OpenMoko platform. Currently I am developing it alone. If you find it interesting you could join the project. There are many nice features that can be implemented if you like. You can also compile the OSM map of your area or even a Garmin map. I would be very happy if you found it interesting :-). Check it! http://yamamap.wiki.sourceforge.net/ and http://sf.net/projects/yamamap - The source code can be checked out from the sourceforge SVN and there is a working demo (with a piece of OSM map) on sourceforge's download. There are not many howto's for map compilation and development environment setup (they are Eclipse projects on SVN and they depend on apache command line parser jar) yet. But I am plannig to create them (next week if you are interested). For the Mono-Java question: In my opinion the .NET language is a little bit better (structures and maybe ) than Java. But Java has a great open source community and many tools available. Working with Eclipse and with Monodevelop is chalk and cheese. That's why I prefer Java to .NET. I have no OpenMoko phone yet and wanted to see my program working with a real GPS. That's why I have ported the application to Mono. But it is too much work (but it works! I can send you instructions if you have a PDA with GPS a recent WinME) to maintain two versions of the code that's why I will abandone the Mono version even if that means it will not work on Windows PDA's. If you do something different in mono and you have a Windows based PDA you can compile it on Linux too. If you are interested in this there is some instruction here: (http://yamamap.sourceforge.net/documentation-html.html#SECTION00542000). Anyway next week you can contact me on jabber ([EMAIL PROTECTED] - can contact with gtalk) or MSN ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) if you like. I will not be online until then. Happy hacking! András Schmidt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Mono development in openmoko
Tilman Baumann wrote: I can not belive that a Mono GTK app can be the same speed on java/swing. And any step to integrate your app into the system, leads you to things like D-Bus and gconf. Sure, you can make JNI bindings for all of them. But i have never seen any. Mono has them... Just my 2 Eurocents The lack of GTK and D-Bus binding is heavy argument I admit. Though Jalimo can use SWT that is also native binding to GTK. Also I am a Java fan and I will remain until MonoDevelop will be as usable as Eclipse is :-). Cheers Andrew ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Mono development in openmoko
Sorry I wanted to send that in private. Schmidt András wrote: Hi, Juan! ... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: France : Taxes for video and mp3 playing capacity
Richard Reichenbacher wrote: No direspect or anything but that's probably the dumbest tax I've ever heard of. In Hungary there is tax on every _empty_ Compact Disc and DVD. The concept is that you will store warez mp3 on them. So when I archive my personal photos or software projects I pay tax for the recording companies. I don't know the current state but there was rumour about extending the tax on all storage devices (including hard disks and flash pen drives). Inside the EU it is legal to import gadget from any country from inside the EU without paying taxes. So these devices can be bought in the surrounding countries cheaper. You can disrespect it. It is a really dumb kind of tax :-). US people may say it is stupid, but at least there are no software patents here yet :-). SA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: digital compass modules
Hi! A compass module would be very nice with many applications! I have no hardware related experince. Is it possible to integrate a chip like this into the phone? How would you do that? Jeff Andros wrote: sparkfun has a few, this one jumped out at me, but check out the rest http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7892 On Jan 22, 2008 8:02 PM, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've got a project in mind for when my neo freerunner arrives, that needs a digital compass. only a simple thing, probably 3 degree accuracy would be enough. so, can anyone recommend a suitable module? something less than $50? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: digital compass modules
Hi! I was thinking about the same problem. But once I have seen a working compass in a phone already (we have crossed thick woods following the compass :-) - it was a friend's phone, I think a Nokia). So it is not impossible to integrate into a phone. In my opinion: 1. The GSM is not radiating constantly when it is idle. 2. You can switch the bluetooth off when wandering in woods. 3. The loudspeaker's magnet must be avoided by placing the chip far from that Perhaps the phone with compass was specially designed so that it interferes the least possible with Earth's magnet sensor. But perhaps it could be possible to integrate into the freerunner. I think it will worth experimenting :-). Conclusion is always the same: I am getting more impatient waiting for my phone :-) Nils Faerber wrote: I doubt that such a device would work in the phone, sorry. The GTA01 contains three loadspeakers with magnets, AFAIK GTA02 will still contain at least two. Then there is massive EM radiation from the GSM antenna which will interfere and finally there is the Bluetooth module also emitting EM when used. Earth's magnetic field is very weak so almost *any* EM radiation near to the measuring device (the chip) will interfere. Cheers nils faerber ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: digital compass modules
Tilman Baumann wrote: Bluetooth would be nice. You would need no hardware hacks on the phone itself. Should be pretty easy to hack a bluetooth-serial converter (like BlueSMiRF from sparkfun) to the sensor. Maybe with a little microcontroller glue in between. Bluetooth is very simple to code and simple to handle. I was thinking about two possible applications: 1. The map of a GPS map viewer application turns when you turn the machine so it is always aligned with the environment (this feature is included on some GPS tools.) 2. A software rendered compass (I have already seen one on a phone as I mentioned in a previous mail) Certainly these applications work best when the magnet sensor is fixed to the device itself :-). BT may work, but is an overkill. The I2C solution sugested by joerg and Robert Paulson seems to fit better. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: digital compass modules
Sébastien Lorquet wrote: I'm not sure a magnetic sensor is useful when you have a GPS, because a GPS can give you a heading as soon as the measured velocity is not zero! It is true when you use it in a car when cruising with normal speeds. When you are using your GPS on foot (installed with a hiking map) your velocity's direction is not well defined enough and also when you stop for navigating you usually turn a different direction than you were walking. (I would use my device this way when hiking or geocaching - see http://www.geocaching.com/) Also sometimes I get fed up with the GPS and navigate using old fashioned paper maps. A compass always comes handy ;-). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: digital compass modules
François TOURDE wrote: Le 13901ième jour après Epoch, Schmidt András écrivait: Tilman Baumann wrote: Bluetooth would be nice. You would need no hardware hacks on the phone itself. Should be pretty easy to hack a bluetooth-serial converter (like BlueSMiRF from sparkfun) to the sensor. Maybe with a little microcontroller glue in between. Bluetooth is very simple to code and simple to handle. I was thinking about two possible applications: 1. The map of a GPS map viewer application turns when you turn the machine so it is always aligned with the environment (this feature is included on some GPS tools.) Maybe the 3D accels can do that. And the GPS can be used as a bearing indicator, when you move. No magnetic device needed in this case. Right! That was an other possible solution I was thinking about. Though I think that algorithm should be very carefully implemented (a very sensitive regulator filter) not to accumulate the measurment error of the accelerometer, and corrigate with the GPS signal when possible. I am not even sure it is possible. Precision would get worse when you are moving slow and shake the device (the case on foot). The regulator code would also consume much energy. Direct measurment of direction seems to be much better for me. These are only speculations with little information and no experience with such devices (accelerometer and magnetic sensor in fact). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: digital compass modules
Frans Grotepass wrote: On Wednesday 23 January 2008, Schmidt András wrote: I am not even sure it is possible. GPS combined with INS? I think the accelerometers aren't accurate enough for INS I have the same opinion though I don't know what INS resolves to :-). Could you tell what INS stands for? Thanks! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Digital Compass JavaFX
At least this solution consumes zero energy :-) Georg Michelitsch wrote: I my opinion, including another piece of hardware on the Neo (and in detail a device which needs to be isolated from any magnetic influences by other components) would cause big changes in the hardware layout, so for the Neo1973 it's surely impossible (or only possible with again some months of delay caused by testing, etc). But if you really like to have one on this phone, maybe you can add a little compass (no electrical module, a real compass) into one of the alternate cases, just a tiny little thing of let's say 1cm in diameter. If its really small that shouldn't cause a big problem and maybe there are some others interested in some kind of stuff like that too. Disadvantage: It'll always be there and and need to keep your phone in horizontal orientation to read it. Greets, Georg ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES:
You are absolutely right! I couldn't catch any meaning of the post. Maybe the guy who wrote it should have some mental treatment. Or is it funny? Ken Smith wrote: On Jan 11, 2008 12:21 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 I couldn't help noticing that the takezero.net post reads like it was produced using Markov Chains. Forgive my naivete if this is an inside joke of some kind. I was surprised to see at least one expletive in the post. Perhaps it's a case of digital graffiti? Ken Smith ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: root
Hi! I have dark thoughts today and just wanted to stir the already boiling water a little :-). Sorry for doing that! Certainly I did not mean it really seriously :-). Although I mean that creating a user that can access our private data and network as well but has no system privileges (as it is now common in widespread desktop Linuxes) will not protect your personal data (from web scripts, ssh attackers and so) at all. And that data has the most value for the user. You are right, a well configured access restriction scheme for the web browser, instant messaging, ad-hoc network protocols and such would have serious benefit for the phone (and desktop systems as well). I assume that sudo prevents the harware to be bricked accidentally by the user or by a userspace program. What I wanted to mean is that protecting the user's data is more important than protecting the device itself. Cheers SA Ted Lemon wrote: On Jan 11, 2008, at 5:56 AM, Schmidt András wrote: In my opinion there is nothing that the root account can protect on a single user handheld device. Phones are normally used single user. When an application gets the rights for that user then it can access all personal information and all network resources (Wifi, GSM network). What else remains? What resource would you protect with the root account? If this is a sincere question, I'd really encourage you to give the OLPC bitfrost spec a read: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bitfrost Unfortunately, the conclusion you've drawn is completely wrong. I'm very interested in the OLPC Bitfrost work - I think it has application in the wider sphere of Linux implementations, and the OpenMoko environment is a classic case. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: YAMA - Map Application intended for OpenMoko
Hi! David Roetzel wrote: I just tried YAMA on my Neo with the 2007.11 snapshot and the aforementioned Mono packages. It worked like a charm! Keep up the good work, it looks very promising Thank you for trying it on the phone! I am really happy to hear that it works on the phone :-)! Soon I will release the converter that converts openstreetmap maps to Yama format, add GUI to reach all implemented functionality on the Gtk version and GSMD signal follower, so you can use it with the maps of your own location. I am still looking for contributors ;-)! Best regards Schmidt András ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: YAMA - Map Application intended for OpenMoko
Hi! I have missed that you replied my mail on the community list instead of the developer list. So now I reply here as well. YAMA is designed to run on different platforms. It is already compiled for: * Java Swing (any Swing capable desktop) * .Net Gtk# (planned for OpenMoko) * .Net Windows Forms (Linux and Windows desktop) * .Net CF Windows Forms (Windows Mobile PDA-s) You can already download the Java and .Net Gtk version bundled with a small piece of openstreetmap.org map from here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=206985 (choose yama-20071206.tar.gz). They work on Linux with Java and Mono runtime installed. They should also work on OpenMoko with the Mono packages. If you try it, please let me know how it works on your machine. I have created a wiki page that discusses platforms of Yama: http://yamamap.wiki.sourceforge.net/concept-platforms Up to now I thought that the Mono version will work on the phone with this Mono port: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-October/001583.html Although today I have read on the community list that there is effort to port Java to OpenMoko: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-December/012100.html So the question is still open. My opinion is that it should use Gtk (no Swing) on the phone. (And the 3D hardware later. Anyone who would like to contribute?) Andrew Bartlomiej Zdanowski [Zdanek] wrote: Hello András. Schmidt András pisze: I am developing a GPL map viewing application. Project home page is: http://yamamap.wiki.sourceforge.net/ It has three main versions: * Java-Swing for desktop * C#-Windows.Forms for .Net CF, Windows desktop and Linux desktop * C#-GTK# for OpenMoko (and Linux desktop) I'd be happy to test it on Neo/OM. Sadly no AFAIK no support for Java and C# yet. Is somebody planning to let out Java on OpenMoko? Best regards. -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard S.A. Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw Registration no.: 287629 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747 Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
