Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
"Jeff Andros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > OK, legal matters aside, your network operators ALWAYS know where your > phone is: cell towers can triangulate the position of your phone(it's like > reverse GPS... multiple receivers on a single source). I wonder how well this works on average. If this would work well enough I don't believe we'd be seeing all the integrated GPS units for the claimed purpose of servicing E911. Those things do add a real cost to the phone that cell phone providers are eating. If I were to try to mask the location of a cell phone, I'd simply stand within a few blocks of a cell tower and put the phone in the focus of a deep parabolic dish pointed at the cell tower of interest. I'd like to see the neighboring towers pick up a phone that is commanded to run at low xmit power with what is effectively a tight beam talking to the closest tower. But I do agree, hiding one's general location to within a few cell-tower radii is not possible. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
Joe Pfeiffer > With an extreme effort of will, I'm not responding with a libertarian > post. Please, let's not go off into politics here Ok. For a technical slant. Can people ever be compelled to supply truthful GPS information to LEO as long as open source cellphones are legal? We can all get "highly creative" in what data we supply to the unwashed masses. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
"Luca Dionisi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I mean, what if each phone in a neighborwood could be used as > a "radio-bridge" in order for a caller to find a path to a callee > without having to rely on a network operator and pay for it? Sounds like you are looking for something like the old MIT "roofnet" mesh-wifi project. I believe those roofnet folks all went to Meraki and are now (or will soon) be selling a rootnet-like box in the form of the $50-$100 Meraki mesh nodes. I don't know how much code is shares with roofnet and if it still interoperates with roofnet. (Roofnet was open-source of some flavor). http://meraki.com/solutions/ If it works and they feel like releasing interop details perhaps the Neo-v2 with wifi can partake of this network. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 700 Mhz Spectrum Auction
Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So you missed the earlier comment from someone who has problems with > wifi working reliably due to overloading? It would have been hard for me to miss it since I was the one that made it. ;-) > Consider that if current wifi went through obstructions, and had a 4 > fold range improvement that you get 16 times the interfering stations. Actually, I'm a greedy little b-stard. I want N-times increased coverage and well over N-times as much spectrum. The whole cellular pricing structure hinges on folks not having any alternatives. There is *lots* of spectrum and the public is shoehorned into a few small ~100Mhz bands. > You cannot expect performance similar to managed networks on unmanaged > networks. There is nothing magical about the cell-tower firmware that free/open access point code couldn't also do. You want power control, WIFI could do that if needed. You want hand-off to other frequencies, open sourced code could do that too. > However, it only takes two users streaming files between themselves to > kill connectivity for everyone else. There is nothing preventing fair-share routing/filtering. This is actually a common filter that both Linux and BSD kernels have available in their IP filtering subsystems. In fact, there is a lot of research on various different "fairness" algorithms. This is one of the things that open-source will almost certainly do better since there are tons of competing ideas and tons of research papers. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 700 Mhz Spectrum Auction
Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Umm. > The 700MHz spectrum would about cope with one 802.11g equivalent > data-rate channel. The whole analog TV allocation that they are reallocating is a bit more than one 22Mhz WIFI channel. Each 4 adjacent TV channels could support 1 WIFI channel. > And exactly what do you think would happen if this was free access, > and the signals go for longer distances? Well for one we'd start seeing city-wide wifi that actually worked through current obstructions. You could then support quite a bit if VOIP traffic (or SMS) over that network. Pervasive WIFI (or something similar) has the potential to give the cellular companies a real kick in the head. -wolfgang ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 700 Mhz Spectrum Auction
"Harrison Metzger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I hope everyone will voice their disappointment to the FCC. I just > wrote letters to my sen/rep and the FCC (it felt great lol). ... I wonder if any pressure can be put on the FCC to reserve some of the "public airwaves" for, you know, the public. The fact that the free WIFI spectrum is only large enough to hold 3 non-overlapping channels is disgusting. Here in this part of Fremont, California those channels are so overused it is hard to keep a connection for very long due to everyone stepping on each other's signals. Why can't the public have free access to a large percentage of the spectrum. It does belong to us right??? I would like to see the public get access to some prime frequencies that aren't attenuated by 10db for every tree that the signal goes through. The old TV 700Mhz spectrum would be ideal in this regard. Of course, this is a pipe dream. The FCC will sell our airwaves to the same folks they always sell our airwaves to -- some oligopoly that will make sure the public only gets to use them at 25 cents / minute if at all. -wolfgang ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Board only option in October?
Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So you probably wouldn't save more than USD 50 (maximum) that way. And > for that, you have all the risk of some assembly problem? Not that I think it is a good expenditure of FIC's limited employee's time at this point, but one thing to think about for the long run is fostering a feeling of openness in all respects. Even thought it makes little sense for someone to upgrade individual parts for their phone, the mere fact that such an upgrade *exists* will create a different feeling in peoples minds. It is just another way for FIC to convince folks that they are the good guys and Apple/Nokia/Motorola/etc are all closed systems in every respect. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
David Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > That wouldn't cause duplicates. > > You got a 550 error which means delivery was not attempted. I got a 550 because my machine sent them a 550 for their probe-back. If my machine waited to answer their probe-back they would wait too. If my timers were set to break the connection after they hung for a certain amount of time, my machine would think the transaction didn't happen but the remote machine might well assume it was "good enough" and deliver the message. And yes, waiting a while after accepting the SMTP connections is a common anti-spam trick. It lets your SMTP see if the other side is a simple timed shell scripts that doesn't really read the SMTP replies. Probe-backs also get confused by 450 "graylisting" which will lead to retries. Feel free to claim that every SMTP server in the rest of the world is all conspiring against openmoko.org. The bottom line is they have DNS errors and are using a silly probe-back method that isn't very robust. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Get them while they're still hot!
Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > this week, they will start their journey to FIC America in Fremont, > California. Seems they are going to be shipping from a mile or two from me. I guess I need not have ordered the more expensive shipping. ;-) Oh well. Thanks for all your work. This should be fun. -wolfgang (a Fremont resident) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
Marco Barreno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Can someone with admin access to the list machine send me the SMTP > logs for one of the duplicated messages? I'm working in the Gmail > group at Google for the summer and I can have someone try to diagnose > the problem from this end. The full SMTP logs would be helpful. I don't have access there, but I can fill in part of the puzzle. At least one of the opemoko machines at 88.198.124.203 opens an smtp connection back to the sending domain to verify the sender address of any incoming message. The smtp-back machine has messed up DNS. The claimed rDNS for that IP is "openmoko.org" but the forward DNS check for that "openmoko.org" doesn't list 88.198.124.203 as a valid address. If the sending machine is checking for spammers claiming a bunk DNS name will reject 88.198.124.203's SMTP verify. The opemmoko machine will then interpret that failed smtp verify attempt as the verified address not existing and will decline the initial incoming transfer. In short, folks really need to check the forward and backward DNS and make sure it is consistent, especially if that machine tries open an outgoing SMTP connection (such as the attempted verification). Jul 9 12:48:17 arbol postfix/smtp[26802]: 29AF91C98001: to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, relay=sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203]:25, delay=6.2, delays=0.18/0.04/5.4/0.64, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203] said: 451 Could not complete sender verify callout (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Jul 9 12:55:35 arbol postfix/smtpd[26864]: warning: 88.198.124.203: address not listed for hostname openmoko.org Jul 9 12:55:35 arbol postfix/smtpd[26864]: connect from unknown[88.198.124.203] Jul 9 12:55:36 arbol postfix/smtpd[26864]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[88.198.124.203]: 554 5.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [88.198.124.203]; from=<> to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> proto=SMTP helo= Jul 9 12:55:36 arbol postfix/smtpd[26864]: disconnect from unknown[88.198.124.203] Jul 9 12:55:38 arbol postfix/smtp[26863]: 29AF91C98001: to=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, relay=sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203]:25, delay=447, delays=441/0.05/1.2/4.3, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203] said: 550-Verification failed for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 550-Called: 64.142.50.224 550-Sent: RCPT TO:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 550-Response: 554 5.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [88.198.124.203] 550 Sender verify failed (in reply to RCPT TO command)) -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > yes, I can confirm this. This is from our exim4 installation on the > list server: > 2007-07-07 09:17:19 1I74UH-0005cE-SD <= [EMAIL PROTECTED] > H=py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176] P=esmtp S=3940 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 2007-07-07 09:27:18 1I74dw-000682-6l <= [EMAIL PROTECTED] > H=py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181] P=esmtp S=3940 [EMAIL PROTECTED] >... This isn't enough to tell which side is causing the misbehavior. I find that slapping a tcpdump(1) on the interface and logging to a file is the simplest way to see what is really happening (eg. tcpdump -w /xxx/logfile -s 1500 -i eth0). Running wireshark() (formerly ethereal()) and using the "follow tcp stream" shows the back and forth conversation. In this case I bet you'll see that gmail is either timing out due to slow replies or packets are getting dropped and gmail is asking for lots of retransmissions and eventually throws in the towel. My gut feel is that the receiver is most likely the villain with either and overloaded CPU and/or lots of slow antispam filters that need to be run. (If you want help setting up the tcpdump or looking at the logs, feel free to send mail to my gmail address. I've tracked down enough mail problems like this that this is very old hat.) -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
"Flemming Richter Mikkelsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I mean, if the message could not be delivered to some of the email > addresses, the server will retransmit the mail until it get delivered (max > time of 4 days) The problem appears to be that gmail and the remote mail server differ in their opinion whether the mail has been received correctly or not. The only way to see what is going on under the hood is to do the packet traces I suggested in my first message. The header lines or log lines folks posted don't really give that any information as to why gmail thinks the message needs to be retransmitted. Most interesting would be seeing how long it takes between the time gmail sends the SMTP data and the time the remote servers send the "250 OK". -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
David Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The log that I posted showed the initial retransmit happening within > google's gmail servers. The log you showed is exactly want I'd expect if gmail timed out due to a slow "250" reply to the data phase of the SMTP (eg. the final OK didn't happen quickly enough for its liking.) Or am I missing something? -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Annoying but inevitable
Attila Csipa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > What I find odd is that nobody considers that some users would WILLINGLY > have/watch ads on their phone, depending on their plan, in exchange for > better rates, rewards, whatever. You don't have to eliminate the ads, you can > also eliminate the reasons to eliminate ads :) The part that is remarkable about ads in general is how little the advertisers are only willing to pay one. The annoyance the ads cause to the viewer far exceed the value of the ad to the site hosting them. For example, banner type online ads only generate one or two milli-cents per viewing. Most folks would gladly pay a penny to not see the next 1,000 ads. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Location Privacy Protocols, was Re: GPS trail - crazy idea
Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > At the moment the telcos don't seem to be making their subscribers' locations > freely available. If they did I would probably keep my phone turned off until > I needed it, because I don't trust everybody to be nice. Location-based > marketing would be annoying. A thief being able to check I was away before > breaking into my house would be worse. Off as in the soft-off button being pressed or the battery being removed? ;-) Sufficiently evil phone firmware could take periodic timestamped GPS readings even if the phone were off. The past readings could be saved for later download. It would be interesting to know how the government deals with that threat itself (say the FBI taking folks to safe-houses etc). Another good reason from an open-source product. Maybe there is a vast untapped market for selling open-source phones to the governments of the world (to protect them from the other governments of the word. ;-)) -wolfgang ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko ads now on youtube
Adam Krikstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCQ7dmGuAU8 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQPjfUqp-dk > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qP-K1HOMHk > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S--2HeQqjq4 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpwxzEopg60 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuG2hYiO9AU > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGjY7tigdkA > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR4ezMgRlWo > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZC3mjRW5Tg > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxsVFG7jHI8 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62kLhNngE20 Wow. If you aren't in the advertising field yet, you should consider it. I especially liked the calf branding and Lilly Tomlin ones. If the reports of 38% iphone activation failures are accurate, then many folks are really going to sympathize with these. For folks on Linux systems without a way to view the youtube stuff directly I've put together a nasty little shell script that grabs youtube videos with wget(1) and then plays them with mplayer(1). Usage: getyoutube [list of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= URLS] http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ftp/getyoutube -wolfgang ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Oceans
> Also I think that distributors will get the devices cheaper, maybe at $400 > or $350. So the chances to get the device for 450 or less on the free > market are high. My guess is that the only difference between the phase 1 and 2 pricing is the inclusion of the distributor's share in the phase 2 pricing. Distributors in these parts seem to get electronics around ~66% of list price. This is exactly the $300/$450 split one sees in the phase1/phase2 pricing. I don't think this is a coincidence. If FIC does manage to get Ingram Micro or some other large distributor to carry the Neo, I would expect to start to seeing a street price much closer $300. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fake Steve Rags on OpenMoko!
"David \"Lefty\" Schlesinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I don't recall having seen a mention of this on the list previously, but > "Fake Steve Jobs" has taken notice of the FIC1973... > > http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/06/freetards-are-trying-to-make-iphone.html > > "Freetards", hm? If you were writing a tongue-in-cheek piece what pithy term would you use for open-source folks? It is all good clean fun. Don't take it too seriously. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: standard API for linux phones?
Tim Newsom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > From what I read, the LIPS group is creating an 'open' standard. The > impression I got from that was the other phone standards group was > closed' whatever that means. It just struck me that the phone book contact info is pretty close to what one wants for a GPS waypoint (Name: Bob's Deli Phone: xxx-xxx- Address: 1 Main Street, Anytown, USA 6 Lat: 37.0 Lon: -121.0 Comment: Great Bagels and Lox). It would be really good if API was flexible to server for both of the Neo/Openmoko needs. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ IPv6 on Fedora 7 http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/fedora/ipv6-tunnel.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Audio Jack 2.5 mm
t3st3r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I will have headache with buying 2.5 to 3.5 mm jack converter since > handsets with 2.5 mm jack are pretty low-quality and only suitable > for calls ... Agreed. Etymotic (http://www.etymotic.com/) makes a great set of very high fidelity headsets, but the stereo ones are all 3.5mm. The 2.5mm one is only monophonic, so it is pretty useless for listening to one's music. (They do make phone calls sound great though!) I've hoping that the combined stereo + microphone 2.5mm jack will catch on and we'll eventually be able to buy high-quality combined phone/stereo headsets. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Audio Jack 2.5 mm
"Vladimír Lapáček" writes: > I would like to ask about the decision to use the 2.5 mm audio jack in > Neo 1973. If it is seriously intended to be used as a music player, > people would most likely use their ordinary headphones. In my opinion > most widely used audio jack is 3.5 mm, so why does Neo 1973 use the > 2.5mm one? Judging from the high-resolution picture on the wiki it looks like the phone has a very special 2.5mm connector with 4 separate electrical connections (instead of the more common 3-connection version). If I'm interpreting this correctly they are running both ground, left-earphone, right-earphone and microphone in one plug. To me, this seems much more convenient than the 2x 3.5mm plug method used for computer headphones. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
open GPS (Re: Richard Stallmans standpoint about openmoko)
Simon Norberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > And i really hope we can replace the non-free GPS software as soon > as possible or atleast before the public release. There is an open-source gps project that seems to have the code needed to do the GPS positional calculations from first principles. http://home.earthlink.net/~cwkelley/ Unfortunately someone will still have to talk the company that manufacturers the Neo's GPS chip to cough up some usable documentation. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wishlist: IR LED (was Freq Range?)
Attila Csipa writes: > an infrared USB dongle would be probably simpler to hack. That is an interesting idea. In any project there seems to be some interesting low-hanging fruit that can be grabbed with little effort and cost. It just occurred to me that there the an IR remote controller might be in that category. The cost of parts for adding an IR led transmitter would be very low if an unused IO pin were still available. One could then run a universal remote applet. The advantage is always having your personal remote in your pocket or around your neck. It would allow folks to have a universal remote in situations where they normally wouldn't have one, such as hotel rooms, at friends houses etc. Bang per buck, it seems like a simple IR system for the NEO would be a lot of fun and perhaps even help to sell the phone to the masses. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Crossroads
Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Now if some of you ask yourself: But you're having binary-only GPS code! > My answer is: > > 1) it's in userspace, and thus not a legal issue at all. Nobody argues >that running Oracle on top of a Linux kernel is a GPL violation. No >grey arae. Clear-cut and 100% legal. > 2) it's not required to make the phone wokr. GPS is definitely a add-on >feature, a gimmick. Not as important as communication channels like >GSM, Bluetooth, WiFi. If kernel vs. userspace is the issue, can't the wifi code by moved into userspace and register frobbing done via ioctl's? Sure it is somewhat distasteful to have all those context switches, but it does bring some advantages too. Writing an open driver replacement becomes a simpler task when the wifi code can be run under normal userland gdb. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
community issues (was: Crossroads)
This Gogole training video showed up in slashdot a few days ago, but might be worth reposting here. The title is a bit on the nasty side, but the message itself is much more positive. Folks in other countries might want to edit the url's ".com" to point to their regional google and get a bit faster response. Even though the google page has one of those an infernal *.flv files embedded, the downloadable mp4 file (the one marked "video ipod/sony psp") plays just fine in mplayer. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 As to my two cents, and I'm still not sure how a wifi hardware selection question lead to a thread of gsm data plans (and with no subject-line change to boot!). Gsm data plan selection is somewhat overwhelming for first time buyer and there is no way that someone looking through the on-line archives is going to spot the discussion from the subject line. As a result the same question is going to get asked on the list more frequently than it would otherwise. That was the first cent's worth of my two cents. The second cent is that many folks here are looking at the developer's phone as simply a way of getting the consumer's phone 6 months early. These people obviously have never used early rev. engineering hardware. My experience is that it normally has plenty of hardware bugs that can't be easily fixed by the software engineer. Sometimes a if the bug is simple a few blue-wires and a few trace cuts are all that is needed, but I can't imagine it will be practical for hundreds of phones located in the far corners of the world. I think developers buying the engineering samples should think of them as essentially disposable with a shelf-life of 6 months. Once the consumer device is out software tends to stop supporting some of the weirder quirks of the early engineering hardware and that hardware rev is essentially orphaned. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Matt Waxes Poetic About Software Security
"Matthew S. Hamrick" writes: > But I like the idea of a switch for the microphone and a cover for the > camera, too. Having the security mechanism easily inspectable and verifiable is also nice. There is nothing like a spring-loaded double-pole knife switch mounted on a glass sheet to give you a warm fuzzy that the two wires coming from the phone are really disconnected when the user stops pressing on the switch. In a similar vein, and a bit more automatic would be a hardware system that forced a red led to be lit whenever the microphone was active. Something as simple as a reverse biased diode in the microphone's audio path could keep it disconnected until the audio line were forced to some voltage that caused the diode to be forward biased and a led to light. One could periodically check that the output from microphone's A/D was indeed zero when the microphone is supposed to be off. The latter is still subject to somehow verifying that the microphone checking code hasn't been compromised, but the jtag interface and doing a byte-by-byte comparison of the actual kernel to the expected kernel should be of help there. >From what I understand, certain government organizations are very aware of the dangers that open microphones on cell phones pose. Wouldn't it be great if an open-source project solved a problem that the big established players are effectively barred from solving due to agreements with competing government organizations? -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AGPS - protocol specs?
Bartłomiej Zdanowski DRP AC2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I work for company that develops devices for car and person tracking. We > do the stuff as written above to correct GPS readings. > A car that is parked in front of our office equipped in GPS receiver > collects data about it position. Even if is parked in the same place for > all day, with a clear sky above (a many satellites visible), raw GPS > readings show that it hangs around all day in range of a few tens of > meters and sometimes a hundred of meters. And I can assure the we use good > GPS receivers. I wonder if you'd do better with a slightly better GPS or better GPS antenna. With a good consumer GPS and an unobstructed sky view all around you shouldn't be averaging a >10 meter error. Even a 10 year old, gps designed during the days of "Seleective Availability" did ~2.5 meters in a 24hr test here. I would expect the modern units to be even tighter. http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/gps/accuracy.html In practice when overlaying gps tracklogs with geo-referenced overhead imagery I regularly see good enough tracking to have a very good guess as to which lane the car was driving in. Look at the exit ramp screenshot (second from the top) to see what I mean. http://www.gnomad-mapping.com/screenshots-new/ And yes, I'm going to try to port this mapping program to openmoko. The real fun starts when everyone you know has one and you can see where they are on the map in real-time. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS for 911 calls
Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I am not aware that GSM carriers in the US use GPS at all. To the best > of my knowledge, only CDMA carriers do. > > In the Neo1973 we don't have any such facility or protocol. And to be > honest: I'm more than happy about that, for data protection reasons. I'm curious does anyone know if there is a protocol for remotely turning on the microphone? I recall reading about a case where the US FBI got into trouble with the courts for remotely bugging a suspected Mafia member's Onstar gps-equipped car phone. http://news.com.com/2100-1029-6140191.html While such a feature might be useful if the phone were ever stolen, it would also be nice to know that any features like this are under the phone owner's full control. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Itch3: Anti-lost/theft protection
"Christopher Tokarczyk" writes: > I think the disagreement over what the phone ideally should do when > stolen is even more support for the proposition that there should be a > way for the owner to configure this behavior. In addition, it would be very useful if the phone was reconfigurable *after* it was stolen. It would be very frustrating to have a good idea and then not be able to implement it because the phone could only be programed while having physical access to it. Personally I like the idea of periodic SMS messages with the lat/lon/altitude. When in stolen mode, having the phone receive SMS msgs containing commands for the phone would seem to be very useful. Something as simple as having a way of remotely submitting a short shell script would do the trick. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: t-mobile bans user's own apps
"Dean Collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Yep saw that in Slashdot, bit of confusion are they cracking down on > existing data levels for cheaper data offerings (something called TZones > or similar) or if totally banning. > > Point is, vote with your feet and go to cingular or someone else. I tried my best to understand the 8+ different Cingular data offerings and it seems at first glance that each of them either requires using a device bought from Cingular or approved by name (eg. the various "Blackberry" planes) http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-plans/data-cell-phone-plans.jsp?_requestid=82997 -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
t-mobile bans user's own apps
It appears that T-Mobile has just started banning third-party applications from running on phones they provide cellular service to. Grumble. Before this they seemed to have the best GSM deal in this part of the world (San Francisco Bay Area, USA). http://www.gearlog.com/2007/01/tmobile_disses_opera_says_get.php "This means T-Mobile feature phone users are prohibited from surfing the Web with Opera Mini, checking maps on Google Local for Mobile, listening to podcasts with Mobilcast, and using any other form of software not pre-approved by T-Mobile." I wonder how they'll react to an open phone where code like this comes as a "factory option". -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Marketing fodder for Neo: FCC presentation
> "Wu claims "wireless carriers [are] aggressively controlling product > design and innovation in the equipment and application markets, to the > detriment of consumers."" -EE Times For those that haven't seen it yet, Skype is getting in on the action and petitioning the FCC to apply the 1968 "Carterfone" decision to cell phones too and let consumers buy phones and software of their choosing. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070221-8895.html "Skype yesterday petitioned the FCC to lay the smack down on wireless phone carriers who "limit subscribers' right to run software communications applications of their choosing" (read: Skype software). Skype wants the agency to more stringently apply the famous 1968 Carterfone decision that allowed consumers to hook any device up to the phone network, so long as it did not harm the network. In Skype's eyes, that means allowing any software or applications to run on any devices that access the network. ..." Now, while I'm not fan of Skype with their anti-open standards stance (with their proprietary and secret signaling), I do see this action as a good thing for the open source community. Skype is the 800 lb. gorilla of voice over the Internet. With Ebays billions available to them, perhaps they will be able to convince the FCC to change the current stranglehold carriers have over phones and software. -wolfgang ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty on phase 1 phones
Andreas Kostyrka writes: > (E.g. experiences with laptops show, that a dead display is > practically never repaired.) That's because the price of spare parts is normally jacked so high that companies often make more money on replacement parts than on the initial product's sale. >>I find it unlikely but it would really put minds at ease when spending a >>small fortune on a phone; plus it might be that extra incentive to lure >>even more to this phone... > > Yeah, but that would be a thing for a mobile insurrance, not for the > product proper. FIC could adopt a "don't be evil" slogan and promise to sell the replacement LCD for normal markup. That would go a long way towards making folks happy with their purchase decision (even if they never need any spare parts). -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: homebrew hardware and WiFi
Ian Stirling writes: > Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: >> Does a GSM/wifi/bluetooth/GPS phone really need >> 4 different RF chips and associated antennas and cabling? > There are a large number of reasons why not - firstly, 1GHz A/D > converter chips are both large, power-hungry, and expensive. > Secondly, processing the output from them is hard. > Thirdly, the dynamic range and intermodulation between different radio > frequencies mean that it's even harder. One of the GPS manufacturers (Garmin) at one time described their system as a 1-bit A/D. Unfortunately they didn't say much more, so it wasn't clear if they mixed the raw 1.5 Ghz down and then "digitized" that or if they applied the A/D directly to the RF signal stream. In the GPS case, the further processing involves throwing the digitized signal at a large number of correlators and then look for a match with the candidate waveforms. The state of the art has progressed so much that one company SiRF, is now claiming to have the equivalent of 200,000 software correlators in their latest Sirf-III chip. So just thinking out loud, I wonder if it is strictly necessary to have an 8-bit A/D at Ghz frequencies. A much simpler one might be good enough. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
Marty, thanks for the interesting insight. Martin Lefkowitz writes: > what both Atheros and Broadcom have done is have a binary that > handles the interface for the chip that needs to be included in the > opensource project. >From my limited understanding, it appears that both Broadcom and Marvell use an embedded ARM chip also. An interesting blog entry by Jim Gettys (at http://www.gettysfamily.org/wordpress/?p=27 ) mentions how Marvell helped free up the Marvel wifi driver. He also talks about how the Marvell chip is crucial to the OLPC low power goals. (Although the 300mw estimate for the running chip strikes me as kind of high for use on a cell phone where one has maybe 3 watt-hours of battery all together.) > BTW it's interesting that the HTC uses the ACX100. I actually designed, > and developed the first version of, that interface for TI. I wonder how its power compares. I'd certainly expect TI to have more engineering and manufacturing talent on hand for building a really low power wifi chip. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: homebrew hardware and WiFi
One other hope I have is that the RF chip designers will start making more flexible radios. Does a GSM/wifi/bluetooth/GPS phone really need 4 different RF chips and associated antennas and cabling? Using software-radio techniques it might be possible to combine some of the hardware. GPS1.5 Ghz WIFI 2.4 Ghz Bluetooth 2.4 Ghz GSM-L 850 Mhz (to 900 Mhz) GSM-H 1.8 Ghz (to 1.9Ghz) Except for the GSM low band, all the frequencies are relatively close to one another, certainly within a power of two of each other. Even with the GSM low band, it is still within a factor of 3. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
> This has been discussed many, many times in the last month. According > to Sean, no wifi chips that both are low-power and have open specs. It sounds like the GPS and GSM chips aren't open spec either. That didn't stop them from being included. I wonder if openmoko could benefit from using whatever the OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) folks are using. They are also going for low-power, but perhaps their definition of low-power is quite a bit higher than a cell phone's definition of low power. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko and pre-paid cards
Mary Stovel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I put the Cingular Sim into the now unlocked Nokia and was able to > get on the Cingular network. So now I have a phone that takes > either SIM... That's very promising. Thanks for doing the experiment! > (I am now trying to find the unlock codes for the C139 so that I can > use the T-mobile SIM with the Cingular C139.) I understand that you need a cable called a T191 cable. Its a cable with a db9 on one end and a 2.5mm stereo plug on the other. The plug has tx on the tip and rx on the ring with ground on the ground sleeve. Any number of programs for *that* *other* *OS* will use that cable to grovel through the phone's memory and grab the unlock code. I haven't unlocked my Cingular C139 yet, but I'm sorely tempted. > P.S. I like the flashlight feature on the C139...hope one of the > developers can add this feature to the Neo...great for finding > dropped items in the theater or under car seat ;-)) I found just setting the wallpaper to "no wallpaper" give me a white background on the home page which was almost as good and takes less key-presses. I agree the Neo needs a flashlight tool/icon on the top-level screen. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
openmoko and pre-paid cards
It may be too early to ask, but I'll try anyway. Does anyone know if those pay-as-you-go prepaid gsm services will allow you to use your own phone? I couldn't resist the lure of the $30 Motorola C139 package that Cingular was selling ($20 phone, $10 service PIN and SIM). I was hoping I'd be able to move the SIM to the Neo when I got it in my grubby little hands. After reading quite a few postings on various cellular forums it appears that some gsm service suppliers like Trackfone lock down their prepay service to only allow phones running official Trackfone firmware to connect. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: For German Readers: Technology Review article about Sean and Open Moko
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Interesting ;) > > <http://www.heise.de/tr/artikel/85138> Strangely it hasn't shown up at Technology Review's US site, http://www.technologyreview.com/ -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Statistics
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > There are 845 people, which 199 are receiving digest. There are also folks like me that access the list via the list<->newsgroup gateway at gmane.org . I don't bother even using my own list -> newsgroup for most mailinglists any more. Gmane does such a good job. FWIW, I hope to get a Neo and port my mapping program Gnomad to it (www.gnomad-mapping.com). I foolishly used some gnome widgets, so they will need ripping out, but that hopefully is the only significant problem. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
