Re: GSM power management improvements
eantime, despite having no official rubber stamp > that says so, we already know with almost 100% certainty that our > products (both hw and fw) function 100% correctly on the air, fully > compliant with all of the relevant technical standards. > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Reviewed and considered 100% plausible and without any obvious issues. Not tested on real hardware though by me. Many thanks for providing this fine bugfix / improvement firmware cheers jOERG (OM senior EE, hw & synergy) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Tinkerphones] Fwd: [Gta04-owner] QtMoko: a dream comes true :)
On Fri 23 February 2018 12:52:22 joerg Reisenweber wrote: > On Fri 23 February 2018 12:43:08 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: > > And the page http://git.goldelico.com/?p=gta04-qtmoko.git lists it in the > > "URL" section as > > > > g...@github.com:goldelico/gta04-qtmoko.git > > which is a verbatim quote and AIUI no correctly formed URL > > /j OOPS sorry, I even meant to suggest https://github.com/goldelico/gta04-qtmoko -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Tinkerphones] Fwd: [Gta04-owner] QtMoko: a dream comes true :)
On Fri 23 February 2018 12:43:08 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: > And the page http://git.goldelico.com/?p=gta04-qtmoko.git lists it in the > "URL" section as > > g...@github.com:goldelico/gta04-qtmoko.git which is a verbatim quote and AIUI no correctly formed URL /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Recalibration, band conversion and bug #1024 rework
On Wed 14 February 2018 14:40:01 Mychaela Falconia wrote: > Hello OM community, > > I am pleased to announce that my company Falconia Partners LLC is now > offering GSM RF tract recalibration services ... Excellent news. Sounds like you're doing a great job there. Many thanks for that cheers jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: moko13 firmware
On Tue 10 October 2017 12:38:54 Mychaela Falconia wrote: > I forgot to add: > : Option 3: new production of Neo FreeRunner (GTA02) verbatim clones. > > If people do desire to see new production of verbatim GTA02 clones > that differ from FIC-made ones only in the manufacturing dates and the > identity of the manufacturer, and someone steps forward to fund such, > the new FreeRunners will have a sticker inside the battery compartment > that officially names Falconia Partners LLC rather than Openmoko Inc. > as the manufacturer of record, thus no one will have any ground to > bitch about our firmware not being authorized or endorsed by the > manufacturer. What will be your FCC approval number for those devices. or on same topic, what IS the FCC approval number (and URL to the publicly available FCC approval report) of the devices you already built? And is that a global approval or a US-only one? Just asking since I might have missed that part and am wrong (as usual according to you) in assuming you're selling devices that have no approval at all and thus are illegal to operate outside an anechoic chamber BR /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: modem firmware
the moral aspects of calling somebody out for removing "no parking" signs so people would have to pay tickets for unknowingly parking there, or not telling people that they are in danger to even *do time in jail* when they install and use a firmware that person provides, are not arguable in my world. I won't comment the rest since it's totally missing the point BR /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: modem firmware
for the rest: telling OM about alleged violations of rules while bluntly admitting that you yourself don't care abouzt rules, have no clue about them and think they are made to get violated... YES that is the spacefalcon we know and love ... *NOT* wanna come shoot me once more? Or do you think you tricked us once more? Honestly you never were close to that. The only one's foot you are constantly shooting is your own. -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: modem firmware
On Mon 28 August 2017 22:33:03 Mychaela Falconia wrote: > > thus rendering any operation of the device outside controlled self- > > contained lab environment illegal. > > Yup, just like using hormonal birth control from an overseas pharmacy > without allowing a doctor to sexually violate you under the guise of a > necessary exam. Laws like that are MEANT to be broken. Thanks for taking care to lure users into breaking laws that need to get broken according to your definition. Just, I don't need any help on that, I need clear information about what I into when I follow your advice. Can't you see how you're acting wrong? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: modem firmware
On Mon 28 August 2017 11:29:17 m...@dmatthews.org wrote: > The relevant howto includes a link to the release notes which include > reasons why you might wish to do this. Can't find any such link to release notes in the howto /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: modem firmware
On Mon 28 August 2017 11:29:17 m...@dmatthews.org wrote: > hello > > There are step by step instructions to upgrade the modem firmware of your > freerunner to the latest moko13 release from the freecalypso community. > > https://www.freecalypso.org/members/david/howtos/ > > The relevant howto includes a link to the release notes which include > reasons why you might wish to do this. > > -- > David Matthews > m...@dmatthews.org Please carefully note that this update is not based on the original licensed firmware for Openmoko devices, has not been checked and is not endorsed by original manufacturer Openmoko and thus will void your device's (FCC/CE/...) approval thus rendering any operation of the device outside controlled self- contained lab environment illegal. Best Regards jOERG (OM EE) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko IMEI survey
On Fri 18 August 2017 15:12:21 Mychaela Falconia wrote: > simple logic says that at least 98 numbers > out of Openmoko's IMEI range must be still unused, and thus potentially > usable for new production of GTA02 verbatim clones and/or FCDEV3B > boards which are just the modem part of the GTA02. Why would you want to abuse OpenMoko IMEIs in an illegal way, instead of arbitrary other larger manufacturer, for a series of phones not built and not in use anymore? You're not owning those IMEIs (they need to be purchased/rented), for OM it would be illegal and punishable to support or invite you to use them in the way you plan to. And you're exposing OpenMoko device owners to public scrutiny by hijacking and abusing this particular IMEI range, possibly resulting in the whole IMEI range getting blacklisted on carriers. @community: It's generally considered a poor idea to disclose your devices' IMEIs and particularly in this case you should think twice before you do. I strongly suggest to use Nokia's 2110 IMEI range instead, or some other similar zombie IMEI range for Motorola or whatever. For Falconia there's not a single benefit from using OM IMEI for that illegal purpose. Best Regards jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Welcome to the Tinkerphones community
Congrats! This was overdue and the new name is absolutely to the point and has quite some appeal. The definition of what is / is not a tinkerphone is very helpful and should go to the frontpage at http://www.tinkerphones.org I like it very much. What about icons etc, generally the complete "corporate identity"? Has it been discussed what will change (beyond the obviously pending overhaul of http://www.tinkerphones.org artwork/design), and are there already tasks assigned to experts? Maybe even new logos etc established and available? Many thanks, Nikolaus - and whoever else been involved! :-) cheers jOERG On Fri 01 July 2016 08:29:39 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: > Hi, > after several years of running the OpenPhoenux community, we > thought that it is time to refresh it a little and replace the awkward > name "OpenPhoenux" (it was always difficult to spell and pronounce) > with something new, self-explaining, that your mom understands. > > "OpenPhoneux" was originally coined in ca. 2009 as the name of an > initiative, when it became clear that the Openmoko company would stop > to develop a successor of the Openmoko Freerunner. It finally brought > the GTA04 device to life. > > Back then, this was a motivating allusion to the situation of building > something new on the remains of Openmoko, but nowadays probably > only some core members of our community are able to understand > this background. > > Therefore we discussed in a small circle what the core of Openmoko > and Openphoenux is. > > It was easy to find what it is not: > * it is not a 100% fair phone (we don't have the resources to track > components - it is enough challenge to have it working and being produced) > * it is not a 100% open phone (we have not found a feasible solution for > WLAN and GPU) > * it is not a 100% secure phone (we can't do security audits of every > component) > * it is not a cutting edge phone (we do not get the latest and greatest > chips as mainstream manufacturers do) > * it is not a geeks (only) phone (we want everybody to be able to use > it) > > But then we found what the common denominator of all Openmoko > activities was and is: > > It is a device that allows you to tinker with it, i.e. find out how it > works, to replace software and even hardware components for smaller or > bigger improvements and even repairs. It is designed in a way to enable > such changes instead of stopping you (e.g. by protected boot loaders, > undocumented code etc.). > > All this is facilitated by being open (as far as NDAs and other limitations > allow) and using open source technology (e.g. GNU/Linux, Debian). > > Here is a definition of what "tinkering" is [1]: > > "tinker or tinker around to make small changes to something in order to > improve or repair it" "tinker with: He spends hours tinkering around with > car engines." > > So we are now happy to tell the world that we are members of > "the Tinkerphone community" :) > > There is a new web domain representing this change: > > <http://www.tinkerphones.org> > > I hope you will agree with us and stay here, contribute and share > your ideas and achievements. And invite new tinkerers to participate. > > Happy tinkering, > Nikolaus > > PS: it will need your help to update the documentation pages... > > [1]: <http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/tinker_1> > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gta02 as gps/navigator (in 2016)
On Tue 26 January 2016 09:18:57 Radek Polak wrote: > My Freerunner has no longer working GPS, so i am not using it nowadays at > all. What's the problem with the GPS? Could a spare antenna module incl cable help you out? Just holler if you need one /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Staus update GTA04A5
On Wed 13 May 2015 09:45:51 NeilBrown wrote: I've been trying to think what components are left that I haven't examined as closely as I can and one that has occurred to me recently is the memory. I presume this needs to be put in a low power mode and I assumed that it was. Maybe it is ... I should try to find the code that does that. Yes, good point. Compare N900's PM kernel which probably does the right thing to RAM (and thus definitely _has_ the code for suspend and zeroclock), see: Suspend (echo mem /sys/power/state), wifi and GSM off. 2 mA T Idle, no SIM, wlan off 7 mA@4.1 V T http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Sat 18 April 2015 17:41:02 Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: I would never had been able to work on a project like FreeCalypso - neither technically nor emotionally - while there were persons in the so-called community taunting me with we have this source which would make a night-and-day difference for your project, but we'll never let you have it - therefore, making plans of a life-for-a-life exchange (giving up my own life after torturing and killing them) was my only available option under those circumstances. without any words. Guess about our motivation to cooperate with somebody as mad as this futile effort to educate persons with such mental issues. s/educate/cure/ ETX /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Sat 18 April 2015 20:22:31 m...@dmatthews.org wrote: yeah crazy - the four freedoms on a cell phone - only a nut case would dream that one up you're completely missing the point. this guy threatening OM and me personally to kill me when I don't grant him access to sources which even OM had unclear permissions in (since received form FIC and not directly from TI, initially) and for sure would be liable when disclosing them to a nut case psycho who thinks it's his natural right to have access to them and to threaten *us* (OpenMoko) instead of maybe TI with assault and murder when we don't grant him access. OM was *very* liberal with granting access to virtually *everything* to *everybody* who showed a *little bit* of common sense about avoiding possible damage to OpenMoko when getting access to that material whatever it been. We explicitly decided that any such common sense is NOT to be found in *this particular person* who rather threatens to kill us than considering how to cooperate in a reasonable manner that maximizes benefit and limits possible damage on both sides. And evidently nothing has changed, the line of argumentation is all the same since years. so: futile effort. File closed. -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Sat 18 April 2015 09:41:03 n...@ossau.homelinux.net wrote: I wonder if you might now consider retracting and apologising for those, and undertake not to repeat similar in future? Thanks for brining it up, Neil. Alas, you see, it's in vain. Despite all the good will from our side. This guy was probably born in a cinema during a Rambo movie. ;-) Maybe he *needs* that attitude that only he and his AK-47 can change the world, and everybody except himself is on the wrong side of that AK-47. Some people need that sort of challenge to push up the importance and perceived burden of their own struggle. In Germany we have the saying Viel Feind, viel Ehr. Worst case - and with according mental problems - you consider your allies your worst enemies just to keep that attitude. And you know Leroy Jethro Gibbs: never apologize! ;) /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: State of FreeCalypso
On Sat 18 April 2015 21:32:21 Spacefalcon the Outlaw wrote: I am not asking you to publicly apologize for the 2 years of mental TORTURE you put me through - so why are people asking me to apologize for my reaction to that torture? Listen buddy! NOBODY TORTURED YOU, except you yourself did that maybe. OM not even approached you, we simply ignored you as far as any possible. When that's torturing then what is it YOU are doing to me - right now? What would ypou say when now *I* would claim you're torturing me by not granting me that apardon for your inappropriate behavior? Would you appreciate me threatening you, your family and coworkers, to get that pardon from you? And you have to admit that *you* started this particular thread by addressing me with your extorting efforts. NOT I did anything that would now result in me awaiting a public apology for the former (and recent) public threatening (not to mention the lying and badmouthing and...) -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OT: Ubuntu phone HTML5 / QML
On Mon 16 March 2015 10:43:51 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Our key problem is that we don’t have a big budget to spend for a new GTA05 that can compete with others. The Neo900 UG long term business plan has perspectives to change that, eventually :-) cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign /\ against html e-mail - against proprietary attachments http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OT: Ubuntu phone HTML5 / QML
On Mon 16 March 2015 22:00:42 Pascal Gosselin wrote: On Mar 16, 2015, at 4:49 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: . I am just curious to understand how people think and decide such things in March 2015. Here's my take on this: My particular vertical market need is for a very small computer that: -Boots up upon receiving an external power (charging) signal. -Customizable boot code -Runs Linux and can run whatever full-blown Linux tool/app we need at startup/boot without any user intervention -Can acquire and use a GPS signal at 4Hz or better. -Has an audio input (headset/mic jack) -Has Wi-Fi -Has accelerometers -Has at least 8GB storage The GTA02 does a fine job at the above, the external GPS antenna capability is a bonus. That's why we bought hundreds of them (everything Openmoko had left in 2010), for one particular vertical market use. What (else) would we need in a GTA05 ? -Better GPS (10Hz, Glonass, Galileo, BeiDou, offline A-GPS) -LTE or at least 4G-ish capability -GSM Certification to operate in major countries -Dual SIM card capability -Dual internal MicroSD cards (RAID) -Retain external GPS antenna port -Support Invensense IMU chip for advanced motion processing (9 DOF) -Barometer/Temp sensor -Infrared blaster -RFID/NFC capability -Fingerprint scanner -Built-in GPIOs with externally-accessible connector -USB OTG, USB 3.0 ? -Built-In Ethernet capability -Built-in A/D converter with externally accessible connector -Built-In RS-232/RS-422 ports, externally accessible -Built-in camera with an external port to add a remote cameras (say up to 3 meters from device). Basically multiple USB 2.0 ports at a minimum. -A decent-sized multi-touch or Glove-Friendly screen (two versions ?), the GTA02 screen is much too small by modern standards (we only use the screen for stuff like Wi-Fi password data entry by the end user) -HDMI outputs (support two external screens) -Speakers (like all phones) -Offer various battery sizes (thicker backs). Neo900 is _almost_ there already ;-) STEP2 will definitely be http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1444602highlight=step2#post1444602 For the external connector for serial and GPIO, flat round contact pads with a docking station on the back like Garmin uses on many units. I believe such an open device would be highly successful in a Kickstarter campaign. The M2M (Machine-to-Machine) market is huge. Such a device would have broad appeal. Size is not very important, the capability/connectivity: Yes! Ubuntu phone, but for true hardware hackers and companies with vertical needs that are not met with current smartphones or by Raspberry Pi or Arduino platforms. GTA04's limited 1Hz GPS was a killer for us... didn't bother finding USB camera options for the USB OTG on the GTA04 as a result, nor the mysterious built-in camera option (not ideal for us, remote camera is what we need). The M2M folks want low-level hardware support (block diagrams, schematics, etc...) and open software drivers (abandonware is the problem here from commercial vendors). Offer a version that's a smartphone and a bigger version that's basically a small computer with a built-in very smart UPS, with the ability to add expansion cards for non-mobile uses. Personally I am not a purist, I don't mind inevitable closed aspects of some hardware/firmware that don't have open equivalents (the Invensense IMU stuff or LTE modem for example). Nothing on the market offers what I'm looking for... and I'm sure I'm not alone seeking the Holy Grail of connected small mobile computer that's not iOS or Android. The current proposed Ubuntu smartphones all have serious flaws (no microSD on the Meizu and on the EQ 4.5 they can't even bother mentioning which exact Mediatek processor they are using !!!) and pretty much none of the expandability and interface capability that I'd like to see in the device. When you can't even publish a proper detailed hardware spec sheet for your Ubuntu phone, you know lower level support is going to be an absolute nightmare. That's what Ubuntu Phone is now. Better yet, the phone could have an internal small expansion slot with routing to the external connector pads. Need a bizarre interface ? Build a board and you are done, no internal soldering mods required. Neo900 has HackerBus for now: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1461954#post1461954 I know it's all not up to par with your requirements but you at least see we're heading into right direction :-) I would expect demand for such a device from the Drone market alone to be massive. More realistic than the current Phoneblocs-type project. An open phone with a bunch of expansion ports. How hard can that be ? What would it take ? $5M ? $10M ? $30M ? STEP2 will need sth like that, yes. Going to start as soon as Neo900 proofed that we actually can do cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon
Re: Doc
DAMN SPAM! don't click the link! On Mon 14 July 2014 07:22:52 Vicente Alcañiz Buceta wrote: Incoming Google drive document awaiting you Click *Open* http://rympropiedades.com/templ ates/account-login-shareing- docs/index2.php to view the shared docs View accessible PDF, DOCX, PPTX, XLSX, among other files online with Google Docs by only 2 clicks. Best Regards -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Indiephone.eu
On Mon 30 June 2014 02:31:57 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: Q: So what the heck have these people been doing for the past 3.5 years?? A: Their thing they been interested in, instead of bitching at others, like you do. Not everybody shares your approach and goals, some even find such goals utterly useless to scratch their own itch. Your contributions would probably receive more attention when you finally would refrain from constant engaging in useless personal insults and fights. But then, hoping for such a change of mindset is probably just ridiculously silly of me - we know your hang on this since several years now. If you want to do me ONE favor: don't answer this mail! I already regret havng written it. Anyway now it's done, here it flies. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Pong Was: ping
On Tue 17 June 2014 19:07:36 Robert 'Bobby' Zenz wrote: Pong from Austria, still happy with my GTA02 (would like a GTA04, though). I wish everyone a good summer! How about a Neo900? http://neo900.org /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Pong Was: ping
On Tue 17 June 2014 20:43:43 Robert 'Bobby' Zenz wrote: Was thinking about it, but I dislike such small keyboards. To be honest, I'd need to try the keyboard of the N900 to know if I'd like it or not and if I can use it or not. On my GTA02 I'm using the stylus that came with it and the docked keyboard. Well, touchscreen keyboards never really worked for me when not using a stylus. Seems you could do all this on GTA04 as well as Neo900, too. Except for one negligible difference: Neo900 comes with stylus built-in ;-) N(eo)900 hw kbd is commonly considered one of the really good small keyboards. Ryan Abel (GeneralAntilles) once did an IRC live report from/about a conference talk, where he typed on N900 faster than I can type on a standard keyboard. It was really impressive and a proof that N900 hw kbd can't be _that_ bad. You might be able to find that event in http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] GSM not turning on / registering
Please consider that - it seems / I heard - several 850/900 and 1800/1900 cells are getting reassigned in USA from GSM to UMTS or even LTE during last year. Ongoing. good luck! jOERG On Mon 19 May 2014 08:27:15 Nick wrote: Quoth Michael Spacefalcon: Nick openmoko-commun...@njw.me.uk wrote: The phone that works is 3G, and it doesn't seem to have a 'force 2G' option anywhere. The option in question often goes by different names: it may also be named network type or network selection etc, with the choices being GSM or WCDMA or both. Try selecting GSM if you can find the elusive option. Hmm, I didn't see anything like that even, but I'll take another look tonight. I'm in the Greater Boston area, Ahh - I didn't realize you were still here in the States - I remember you asking on this list a few months ago about GSM frequency bands in USA, with the intention of traveling to Boston area, but it was back in February, so I thought the trip was over and you were back home in the UK. Yeah, I'm here for 6 months. It's a good place :) How long ago have you arrived in Boston? Is the FR-not-working problem something that happened upon arrival in USA, or has it been working for you for a while in this part of the world? No, it has worked fine (well, in fact) for the past couple of months, so it definitely *can* work here. Ahh, so you decided to be adventurous and use ATT instead of the more tried tested T-Mobile. Before we spend an inordinate amount of effort figuring out why your FR doesn't work on ATT in Boston, perhaps you could try a T-Mobile SIM card just as a quick test? If you don't have one, just go into any T-Mobile store and ask them to borrow a SIM for a few minutes to test in your phone while inside their store. I may end up doing that, but there isn't a T-Mobile store very conveniently located for me, so I'll at least try some fun logging of AT commands first. Also if there is any chance you might visit California before you go back to the UK, we could meet up and do some GSM hacking together. :) Aah, that would be nice, but no, I don't think I'm going to get to the west coast this trip. It sounds like something well worth doing, and someday I'll make it there. I'll let you know if my plans change and I end up in California. Similarly, let me know if you come to Boston. :) Basically because I just want a dumbphone that works, really, so tend towards laziness regarding my phone nowadays. If you are using your FR as an oversized dumbphone, have you considered using a real dumbphone instead? You might want to grab a Mot C139 on ebay while they are still available - it is one of the models which I am using for FreeCalypso firmware bring-up (along with the Neo FR and Pirelli DP-L10) before building my own dumbphone hardware, and it has the advantage of being a very simple dumbphone with full schematics available (unlike the Pirelli). Hmm... I'll consider it... Thanks, and expect some nice AT output later. Nick ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QtMoko] GSM not turning on / registering
On Mon 19 May 2014 20:08:36 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: - full name in quotes - short name in quotes - the true numeric ID sent by the cell network (the decoded names in the previous two fields come from a look-up table in the modem fw); Nope they shouldn't, that LUT-name is a 3rd way to get the plaintext of carrier as long as network fails to transmit full and short name OTA (AFAIK). And in userspace of GTA02 there's usually yet another LUT for a 4th way to get the name ;-) SIM also might provide a name, so that would be a 5th way. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gta02 pcb layout
On Tue 13 May 2014 23:49:13 mobi phil wrote: Hi, after years, was for scientific :) reasons wanted to give a new life to the gta02 I own. Opened it, and the usb connector was enough fragile. Tried to resolder it but the pcb couper line broke. Cannot see precisely to which resistor that line connected. So need a very good magnified photo or the pcb. Anybody can help? schematics http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/schematics/GTA02/Schematics_Freerunner-GTA02_A5-A7cumulative_public_RC0.pdf together with component placement http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/schematics/GTA02/lindi-searchable/ should go a long way for this. Usually ti's just a question to find the right one of two ends of a 0402 resistor or capacitor. The other (wrong) end is usually connected to another similar 0402 component (or GND, or Vdd) so by testing for 4 conductance aka 0R connections from both ends of component A to both ends of component B you should be able to spot the wrong end. The other one is the right end then, which you want to use to connect your bridging wire to. If you need more help, just holler. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gta02 pcb layout
On Wed 14 May 2014 00:27:11 mobi phil wrote: hi! that was a lovely quick answer.. .found the schematics, but was not finding the pcb layout. The PCB layout is an 8-layer (iirc, maybe 10) which is pretty hard to publish in any useful representation other than the layout program's own one. Anyway you don't need PCB layout to solve your problem. it looks that I broke the one toward the gps unit, that is towards the ground, which is normaly not used... or .. is it used on gta02? Please send (link to) a number of macro snapshots illustrating your problem in a way so I can look up a solution for you. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gta02 pcb layout
On Wed 14 May 2014 01:12:00 mobi phil wrote: I wanted to see only the surface pcb. On component placement you see the surface layer of PCB, incl all copper traces. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Source AHRS project: giving away hardware
On Sun 11 May 2014 09:25:37 Pascal Gosselin wrote: Indeed. When you taxi an airplane on the ground in a straight live or drive a car in a straight line, GPS TRACK (adjusted for magnetic declination) = Magnetic Heading. The other complementary magnetometer calibration techniques involve driving around in a full circle in about 60 to 75 seconds or doing a 360 degree turn and stopping every 30 degrees. -Pascal Sent from my iPhone On May 11, 2014, at 4:47 AM, Jake jak...@rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de wrote: On 05/11/2014 07:08 AM, joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Sat 10 May 2014 11:57:30 Pascal Gosselin wrote: calibrate the compass via GPS track by an easy calibration or self-calibration method GPS doesn't offer any data to calibrate magnetometer from. magnetometer aka compass is about orientation of device, GPS is about position and movement vector. They are 100% unrelated. In a static situation this is correct, but while moving it is possible to get the current heading from GPS. Jake This all assumes a locked and defined mounting situation for the magnetometer. Then yes. For an embedded device however this method tells you nothing about the magnetometer heading. The embedded device can change relative orientation to the vehicle that's driving. PS: you must be very sure about the vehicle moving exactly straight ahead as well, for anything but a non-sliding car that's not guaranteed, think boat, even airplane -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Source AHRS project: giving away hardware
On Sat 10 May 2014 11:57:30 Pascal Gosselin wrote: calibrate the compass via GPS track by an easy calibration or self-calibration method GPS doesn't offer any data to calibrate magnetometer from. magnetometer aka compass is about orientation of device, GPS is about position and movement vector. They are 100% unrelated. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko GTA06
On Sun 13 April 2014 15:26:34 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: Then they need to filter who uses same Internet services as me. This case it's much harder to make sure that me is me, right? Nope, since your internet traffic is a way better richer fingerprint of you than the numbers you could call (or don't, according to your planned use) Logging in on a single forum or webmail-service or polling your mail via POP3 or registering with a VoIP registrar already suffices. Heck even a more or less arbitrary cookie left in your browser suffices. And as already explained a IMEI popping up out of nowhere is *always* highly suspicious and will usually already suffice to put you into the group of those 20 subjects that currently frequently use fake changing IMEIs. For the rest a rough geolocation will do to identify you as subject #8 of those 20 subjects. It's like you running the streets wearing a gorilla mask, and then changing your gorilla mask to a pig mask and then 100m further you swap that for a donkey mask. *Everybody* will look at you and there's not much doubt who you are, despite you never showing your real face. OOOH, I almost forgot: tell me which internet service you may use without a SIM you paid for. They will probably die from laughing about you when you constantly swap your IMEI without constantly swapping your SIM *and your geolocation* exactly same time. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Shr-Devel] FSO project hosting (mailing lists, ...)
On Tue 11 March 2014 18:26:07 Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Dr. Michael Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de wrote: Quick update: I have gathered the old subscribers’ list and have invited (not autosubscribed) all former members. If you are not among the invited and have interest to participate on the future of the FSO middleware stack, then please feel very welcome to join f...@openphoenux.org Best regards, Mickey. Subscription link for lazy ones: http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/fso Thank you Mickey for taking care of that! Thanks to both of you! :-) /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri 21 February 2014 08:26:59 Radek Polak wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2014 08:38:35 PM Michael Spacefalcon wrote: I am also convinced that the *real* reason why Openmoko = failure in the general public's perception is precisely because of that NDA and no one having broken it during the years when it mattered the most. That's your point of view. Point of view of a firmware hacker. But there are other points of view. E.g. some people expect the phone ring when friends/wife/customer calls. I had many phones before and 2 phones after (N900 and now Jolla). None of them had any problems with SMS and telephony. Openmoko is different - they never provided SW for reliable phone. Openmoko never provided stable maintainable kernel - instead they wasted their time on doing 4 ugly unusable distros while at the time they had perfectly stable usable and working Qtopia. Granted, but then QTopia never been a true linux in my book. IIRC it had no X11, thus according to my definition of my dream companion it's as useless as Sailfish is now, and android ever been. And do you suggest any of your other phones provided a maintainable kernel so far? I have some of them too and know a bit about their kernels, I don't think they are any better than what OM provided. A question to Michael S.: the heck which dang NDA are you talking about? OM allowed all reasonable individuals access to all the docs and specs and schematics we ever had, on request (yes, including the calypso sources we had - which not been much and not been maintained by OM at all, basically). We were just not able to put it on fileservers or P2P since that would have taken us out of business immediately. That's business, sorry you don't like to accept reality in that regard, probably caused by your communist ideology. But then, why don't you start a company in Russia? OOPS, they also went capitalism now. Maybe China, with their copycat capitalism, is the best homebase for you? Anyway OM never promised to help you bring communism to world dominion, neither at large nor in hw manufacturing. OM just started to bring you best you can get regarding openness and freedom. No use in stating man should be able to fly and do a basejump from Eiffel tower dressed in a funny suit to make that happen. When OM would've taken that approach, absolutely zilch of all that's been achieved ever had reached the community. And even 5 years after there is no good kernel for Freerunner. 2.6.29-rc seems quite stable but the patch against mainline is horrible, besides it's power management is worse then it could be. 2.6.39 has hardly nearly unreproducible problem with resume. Well, you can't deny the fact that *not* a *single* phone has a clean mainline kernel. That's because mainline - sorry to be frank here - has NFC about power saving. Neither about handling realtime requirements in resource limited embedded environment (admittedly not kernel's fault) Now we have free firmware which is cool, but the usablity of the phone hasnt changed much. Well, my take on that is: it's up to you, the community, to come up with such systems designed to provide improved usability. Look, even Nokia announced EOL for any maemo fremantle maintenance only 2 years after roll out of N900. You'd have to pay a yearly fee probably even higher than the initial purchase price of the device, to make any group of professional paid developers continue support of a finalized product longer than a year or two, since otherwise there's simply no budget for such effort. Freerunner been *free* in that it absolutely allows community to pick up on that task, you got *all* the *needed* *info* and docs, and that's what OM ever been about. *NOT* about liberating the *GSM* radio stack. It has been mentioned in one of the last 5 posts to this thread: indeed, depending on your definition of free, you possibly never will find a ONE HUNDRED PERCENT FREE phone since no chip manuf will give you the masks and process step specs, nor the detailed internal structure description of chips, not even for ARM CPU. And the perceived liberation of FreeRunner now with that pirated GSM stack is a delusion as well, there are still things like WLAN firmware and glamo drivers, not to mention the maybe disclosed but not at all understood source code in the undocumented calypso chipset GSM stack itself. Heck I bet there's a whole lot of kernel stuff that's been provided by some chip manuf in BSP for the CPU/SoC and never reached the level of understood by community so it could get done again for next similar chip. When you (whoever) call that rather unexciting and irrelevant achievement of pirated GSM radio stack the frontier line between a free and a proprietary embedded device that allegedly been crossed now, then I dunno what's your benchmarks and philosophy at large. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:03:47 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: We ... are working on a 3.14 kernel and getting things mainline Why? The GTA04 is not usable as a daily phone. Why would you waste time on the kernel instead of working on the problems that prevent the board being used? Thanks a lot for the excellent advice! Now if you could elaborate on what exactly *is* the source of the problem, and particularly why it's not related to kernel's power management, according to your insight. Why are you not spending this time working on the power drain? See above! [...] /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:17:26 Neal H. Walfield wrote: And no, you probably can't use a VPN to have only encrypted data transferred over the air. I don't think there are any free and open VPN endpoints available. Using Tor avoids this problem. Check it out: https://www.torproject.org/ This would rely on all communication between your local device and Tor's entry node being completely and securely encrypted so nobody can spy on it, not even by profiling and correlation methods. Do you think that's warranted, *always*? But honestly, the Freerunner probably isn't the device you want to use for data only, in an absolutely track-safe mode, to do... what exactly? VoIP? Hardly! For stealth access to internet there are for sure better solutions than the one we're talking about here. And initially we talked about _calls_ iirc. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:36:59 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: VLR, SF Do yourself a favor and ask some of your friends with a more down-to-earth mindset before you ever again consider posting such mails. When you don't get it, go and ask your friends, maybe they also can explain to you why I suggested this. Good luck! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:54:23 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Roughly same way as Pi -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:54:23 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Your initial rant sounded much similar to the plot: blame the architect for not working on the electrics of the house, to stop the excess energy expense caused by the residents not shutting down the heating when opening the windows. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: void (was: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)))
On Fri 21 February 2014 11:43:08 David Matthews wrote: Yes it is, and those who do not believe so should allow those of us that do value it to enjoy it in peace :-0 - I at least do not need to be told repeatedly how foolish I am for delighting over something someone else believes has zero worth Please don't polemize! Nobody has told you that you're foolish. You do that now, about those of us who question the purpose of changing IMEI (something that got lost in your mail's topic, as well as the thread reference that would've put this into context) -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM frequency bands in the USA
On Fri 21 February 2014 18:51:37 Andrew Schenck wrote: its the 900/1800/1900 version, but I haven't found any way to verify On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 12:07 +, Nick wrote: there. It is a European 900/1800/1900MHz version (I presume - I bought it 2nd hand - is there an easy way to check?). Can I just use Under battery, on the label, right side directly above the ASSEMBLY IN CHINA writing...! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 19:22:00 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 18:15 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 21.02.2014 um 10:54 schrieb Bob Ham: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Please find the answer and tell us about the results. This answer implies that you have nothing to back up your assertion that the kernel controls the power drain. It implies that your assertion was, in fact, just speculation. And if you don't know whether the kernel causes the power drain, then you can't know that working on the kernel is working on the power drain. You are not working directly on the problem of the power drain. When you start doing that work, instead of developing kernels for a useless phone board, the community will be more supportive. please take it elsewhere! you evidently got NFC but think you can patronize and instruct others /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 19:22:00 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 18:15 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 21.02.2014 um 10:54 schrieb Bob Ham: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Please find the answer and tell us about the results. This answer implies that you have nothing to back up your assertion that the kernel controls the power drain. It implies that your assertion was, in fact, just speculation. And if you don't know whether the kernel causes the power drain, then you can't know that working on the kernel is working on the power drain. You are not working directly on the problem of the power drain. When you start doing that work, instead of developing kernels for a useless phone board, the community will be more supportive. Nikolaus' answer just implies one thing: he noticed quicker than me that any answer to you is futile. Feel free to pick the right one matching to your statements from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
On Thu 20 February 2014 12:05:00 Christoph Pulster wrote: Hi, @joerg: sorry we mis-communicate. No we don't. Or at least I don't. ;-) I am not talking about tracking (location of caller), me neither since that's absolutely trivial but identification of caller. me too If I buy a mobile, name is registered and connected with IMEI. Depends. Using a Openmoko and changing IMEI with Michaels tool does make a new device out of it. Logfiles cant be law prooven evident of my identity. Sorry, that's a dangerous misconception. Again, just in case I still didn't manage to make it clear enough: there is nobody else but you on this earth calling those 3 phone numbers (unless you call numbers that are getting called by 0.5mio users per day). Simply compare who called number A during last year, and who also called number B during last year already reduces number of individuals to max 10. Then check which of those 10 individuals doesn't use her/his old IMEI anymore and here you are: old IMEI linked to new fake IMEI. With only 2 calls done from your new SIM and IMEI to your wife and your mother (or any other arbitrary two normal phone numbers you called before). This will hold for evidence on any court, better than fingerprints. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
On Thu 20 February 2014 15:27:33 Neal H. Walfield wrote: Why do you think the only use for a mobile phone is to make calls? If I only make a data connection and am careful to tunnel all of my data via Tor, then this identification method is useful. Neal Err, right. For that usecase it might work - until you do *anything* that gives away your ID, which is even more easy in internet than in a GSM call (think searching for 2 or 3 topics on google which are specific to you. Or visiting 2 or 3 specific websites, maybe even in a certain specific usage pattern. Obviously you can't use email or anything like that. And google [and others] might be able to identify you from your typing style and rhythm into the search term textfield already). And no, you probably can't use a VPN to have only encrypted data transferred over the air. I don't think there are any free and open VPN endpoints available. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
On Thu 20 February 2014 15:27:33 Neal H. Walfield wrote: and am careful to tunnel all of my data via Tor Recent tests have revealed that at least 20 nodes in Tor are trying to break into your encrypted data transmission. It'd widely known that Tor is infiltrated by agencies. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Thu 20 February 2014 20:38:35 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: was a proprietary phone no different from anything out of Motorola, Samsung or Apple. evidently bullshit! -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri 21 February 2014 07:29:28 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Of course it will never happen legally, but so what? We can build it illegally instead. You are a Pied Piper of Hamelin. Let's hope we don't have to read Pied Piper Revisited or learn about some landslide or somesuch, in a few years. ;-P /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri 21 February 2014 07:48:02 joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Fri 21 February 2014 07:29:28 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Of course it will never happen legally, but so what? We can build it illegally instead. You are a Pied Piper of Hamelin. Let's hope we don't have to read Pied Piper Revisited or learn about some landslide or somesuch, in a few years. ;-P /j And particularly: who's Rumpelstiltskin? And is OM == Shrek? -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IMEI changing kit for GTA02
On Wed 19 February 2014 11:26:49 Nick wrote: On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:19:12AM +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: According to http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/31/section/1 it is a full (not semi) offence with up to 5 years in prison in the UK. And even possessing such a tool isn't allowed: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/31/section/2 Eugh. What a horrible piece of legislation. What *should* happen is that it should be repealed now that mobile phone theft is far less than it was when it was drafted, and known abuses of surveillance are far higher. I have precisely zero faith in anything like that happening, particularly in the UK. Although, reading section 1(3)(b) of the first legislation, it looks like it's legal if the manufacturer permits it in writing. So someone at OM should say yeah, sure, whatever, which would make us a little safer ;) If that makes you feel better: yeah, sure, whatever OM nor me can allow or forbid anything you do to your phone, and I consider changing of IMEI reasonably safe from a technical perspective. I however again want to emphasize the absolute lack of any point in changing IMEI. It will not improve your privacy, au contraire it will make you light up in their surveillance like a pink Zebra in savanna. When you need to have privacy, don't use GSM! Use a phonebooth instead! Use coins, not a phone card! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IMEI changing kit for GTA02
On Wed 19 February 2014 12:21:00 Christoph Pulster wrote: Hi, its nice to see, outlaw Michael's activities cause some life in this list. @Nikolaus: damn to UK laws, Michael is providing a tool to change IMEI, no more no less. Besides legal issues, I miss the thanks to Michaels effords. Of course he wrote a lot strange/non tolerable things in this list in the past, but concerning technical effords, he was very insistant and pushed it as far as writing a tool for easy change of IMEI without having full access to NDA-infos. @Joerg: changing IMEI...will not improve your privacy, au contraire please explain this to me again. If I buy a Openmoko and use a non-registered prepaid card with it, change the IMEI before first usage, who can track my real ID ? Christoph I knew this will come up again. We had been through all this a month or two ago. Whatever...: who can track you? everybody who already tracked you and noticed you did a call before to same far end number from roughly same geo-location. When you do TWO calls to TWO (normal) numbers, not even geo-location is needed (unless both numbers are of the class gets 50 calls per day). And so far we didn't even consider any implications from fingerprinting of your mobile equipment's GSM stack and physical transceiver. Buzzword nmap guess OS to give you an idea of how that works. Honestly, changing your IMEI doesn't mean you magically get invisible, you rather stand out as one of maybe 5 guys in your wider area - read town, country - using a *new* fake IMEI. Even when you change your IMEI (and discard your SIM and get a new one) after every single call you do, you will stand out even more as THE only guy who is known to do that in your whole country. Then add on top true eavesdropping on calls and speaker recognition. And when things go really haywire, you pick a random IMEI that's actually already in use by somebody else, or is blacklisted. Oh, and make sure you did pay your SIM with real money, not any credit card or whatever. So let's sum up: you find a carefully selected fake IMEI, switch your phone to that, insert that new SIM you just purchased for 10 bucks at a gas station where you popped up disguised as Benjamin Franklin and registered it in internet under Benjamin's identity to enable it, then you do one phonecall and discard the SIM immediately after call. Right? Better use a phonebooth! ;-) cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IMEI changing kit for GTA02
On Fri 07 February 2014 22:25:23 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: Hello fellow freedom lovers, I have just released the first version of the kit that allows a Neo Freerunner user to set his/her IMEISV to any value of his/her choice. Download it here: ftp://ftp.ifctf.org/pub/GSM/GTA02/ffs-edit-kit-r1.tar.bz2 Operating instructions are inside the tarball. The way in which this kit works is completely independent of what firmware version you have in flash: it can be moko11, leo2moko, or even blank or corrupt flash. (Just like with fc-loadtool, the chain starts with Calypso's on-die boot ROM, i.e., the wonderful hardware unbricking feature TI gave us in this baseband chip, similar in principle to FR's NOR U-Boot which is extra hardware just for unbricking.) Please also note that many vendors' standard proprietary firmwares include undocumented AT commands for setting the IMEI, and as my experiments indicate, moko11 appears to be one of them: ftp://ftp.ifctf.org/pub/GSM/hacks/imei-hacks-r1.tar.gz However, I do not recommend using that AT@SC command, as the half-baked implementation does not make the proper distinction between IMEI and IMEISV, and the last 16th digit of the complete IMEISV (which is what the modem actually uses and sends over the air) ends up being set to a random value that is an artifact of the obfuscation scheme. As an example, the original factory IMEI of the GTA02 I use for FC development is 35465101-961584-0; the original factory programming of the complete IMEISV is 35465101-961584-00. However, if one uses that AT@SC hack to change it, it is then impossible to revert the complete IMEISV back to this original setting using the same AT@SC command! If one feeds the correct obfuscated AT@SC string for setting 35465101-961584-0, the full IMEISV gets set to 35465101-961584-01 instead of the original factory 35465101-961584-00. In contrast, the FFS editing kit linked above allows you to set all 16 digits of the IMEISV to whatever you choose; the kit provides the mechanism and you decide on the policy for what the SV digits should be. However, considering that those with a desire to play with their IMEIs would probably find an AT command much more convenient than the rather cumbersome (albeit powerful) XRAM-agent-based mechanism presented in my current kit, I plan on making a new version of leo2moko that will include a new AT command for setting the IMEISV. I will not be replicating the obfuscated AT@SC command, instead it will be a different AT command that sets all 16 digits explicitly and works without any obfuscation. The syntax I propose is: AT+SIMEISV=1234567890123456 If anyone has an argument for a different syntax, please speak up now. Viva la Revolucion, SF you recall that single line I actually censored? (Must have been the only time in my life I did this) In the changelogs, around moko5 or something. It actually been a weird secret AT command to change the IMEI, it claimed in changelogs that it had some really weird formula to add birthday^5 to old IMEI or sth and append that to the new IMEI, for authentication - and it never worked afaik. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IMEI changing kit for GTA02
On Sat 08 February 2014 01:54:44 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: joerg Reisenweber jo...@openmoko.org wrote: you recall that single line I actually censored? http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/calypso_moko_FW/all_version__CHANGELOG.txt line 60, I assume. Yes, that one. (Must have been the only time in my life I did this) In the changelogs, around moko5 or something. Considering the time proximity between this hack and the moko5-moko6 change in which you (not you personally, but the company) went backward from the sensible approach (used in most other TI-based products too) of storing configuration items in FFS to the non-sensible approach of hard-coding them in the fw, let me make a guess: the crappy Weendoze- only host tools for development and production which TI gave you (for FFS programming in this case) were unreliable, and you were looking for a way to avoid needing to do any FFS programming through the RVTMUX interface (TI's official way) at all. Of course the IMEI is one item which can't be hard-coded in the fw, and if you didn't want to (or couldn't) use the proper RVT/ETM-based method of programming, then you had to hack in some other way, such as a special AT command. But I assume that the issues with TI's production testing and programming tools must have been solved in time for GTA02A7 mass production, as my unit came with a /pcm/IMEI (IMEISV really) setting which cannot be programmed via that AT@SC hack, only via the proper RVT/ETM channel. I also find it cute that all mass-produced GTA02 units (at least the 4 that have been liberated so far: mine, David's, Norayr's and Giacomo's) came with a few files in FFS (/pcm/CGM[IMR]) which are not used by any of your fw's from moko6 onward, only by moko5 - surely flashing a GTA02 back to moko5 is NOT recommended (I even remember seeing admonitions somewhere to never do that), yet those files seem to be there just to support those people who might do that... Wasn't it your inability to write these strings into FFS reliably that made you go back to hard- coding them? I have no idea, I took care about GSM firmware only much later. But I think until the point in time when I was able to contract Dieter Spaar for OM, there been significantly less knowhow about all that stuff inside OM than what you demonstrate here. After Sean Chiang left, the domain had nobody savvy how to handle all that, iirc. And the whole stuff been even temporarily considered lost forever, thanks to reformatting of a laptop HDD (iirc). Also see bug #666 which got fixed in moko5 but evidently the patched lib TI provided for that got dropped for no reason in later fw versions, until Dieter noticed that and included it again in Moko9-Beta1 It actually been a weird secret AT command to change the IMEI, it claimed in changelogs that it had some really weird formula to add birthday^5 to old IMEI or sth and append that to the new IMEI, for authentication - and it never worked afaik. So I assume we are in agreement then that this secret AT@SC command is NOT recommended for use? Yes, definitely. I think this command never really worked. And for obvious reasons it never been tested thoroughly, I guess. When I had to tinker with calypso IMEI I'd probably rather resort to your tools than try this command or ti_tat /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: testing the free calypso software
On Mon 03 February 2014 21:42:38 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: Does anyone know what will happen in a cellular network where there is more than one device has the same IMEI. In other words, if we all could change our IMEI numbers, and use one imaginary number, are there technical reasons for network to not work. no technical but organizational. Usually that IMEI gets an instant ban, and a fat bold red alarm logline in carrier's network logs. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: testing the free calypso software
On Tue 28 January 2014 18:58:19 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: 01/27/14 10:26 -ում, Michael Spacefalcon-ը գրել է: In the absolute worst case scenario imaginable, if someone does lose their RF calibration values and has no backup copy anywhere, you should be able to send your FR to some lab to get it recalibrated. I If someone has no backup of calibration data, can she use calibration data from other phone? Then we can send our data to that person. Or it won't work this way? I probably don't understand it well. Not recommended and not entirely correct procedure but nevertheless should sort of work, yes. You might want to edit the IMEI to what yours been, before (or after) you flash that alien calib data. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: testing the free calypso software
On Mon 27 January 2014 19:26:19 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: Giacomo 'giotti' Mariani giacomomari...@yahoo.it wrote: By the way, I think that your work, with the right notes about being experimental and so on of course, should also be in the official wiki. As much as I would love to see it happen, I doubt that the powers controlling that wiki will ever allow it. That's a bold misconception. OM wiki isn't censored, it just gets cleaned of SPAM and obviously incorrect AND hazardous info, like e.g. somebody suggesting to run wear tests against NAND to verify its formatting. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: CSD calls from Neo Freerunner
On Tue 21 January 2014 15:42:20 Al Johnson wrote: On Monday 20 January 2014 07:31:55 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: For those who don't know what CSD is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_Switched_Data [snip test call logs] CSD calls may be placed from a GSM mobile either to a land line or to another mobile. (I don't know if it's possible to establish a CSD connection from a land line to a mobile.) It's possible to establish the connection from land line to mobile, with both analogue and ISDN landlines. I used to use it for remote access to condition monitoring systems. You should be able to send and receive faxes too. It does need carrier support though. For landline to mobile you need to signal to carrier that the OTA connection shall not use GSM-codec for voice but rather establish a 9k6 data connection. From ISDN you can set the data service class flag, from analog landline there is no such flag. So usually a dedicated telephone number for inbound CSD- datacalls is mandatory and carriers rarely support this nowadays, anyway you have to ask your carrier to provide such number for your mobile. IIRC there's another method where mobile switches type of a connection on the fly, so you'd initiate a voice call from landline to mobile and then mobile switches type to datacall. Can't remember what the according AT-commands been to accomplish that. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Community] GTA04A5 / Letux 2804
On Fri 17 January 2014 19:13:24 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Not everybody is weighting the factor of freeable down to the modem equally when calculating the relative position of two devices to decide between upgrade and downgrade. You have a different weighting than me. If freedom is not important to you, then you might as well use an iPhone or the latest Android from Samsung. As Jim Marrs has said very eloquently in the preface to one of his books, being free is like being pregnant - either you are, or you aren't. I don't know, but isn't *that* something you should fight against instead of modifying leaked firmware for a system that never has been locked? Modifying leaked firmware is not an accurate description of what I am doing. As you should know full well, I am designing and building my own Free Plain Phone, and I have chosen to use the same Calypso chipset as used in the GTA02. I chose this chipset because it already exists, because it is known to work exceptionally well, at least in dumbphone applications (I've been using one of my Pirelli phones as my everyday cellphone since last spring, and I have nothing but praise for it in terms of battery life, GSM signal strength and call quality), because all hardware documentation and firmware sources for this chipset have already been freed, and because I have already amassed a great deal of experience working with this chipset. Providing hacking support for Openmoko-made modems is simply a side- product of my FreeCalypso work: I have chosen to bring my firmware up on known-working hardware first, so that when I build my own hw and get to debug it, I will have the benefit of known-working firmware. Put another way, the free phone community (combination of FreeCalypso and OsmocomBB projects) has already made great progress with the Calypso chipset. Switching to another vendor's chipset on a whim would be an enormous setback for the project and for the community, and it is not fair for you to ask that of us - here I am referring to the you should be working on this instead of that argument in your comment. So your claim of GTA02 is 100% freeable and GTA04 is not is only based on your disinterest to work on solutions? I am working on solutions, but the problem I have chosen to solve is different from yours. Some people, such as me, simply want a good working cellphone, a device for making and receiving phone calls on the go - and we want this cellphone to be free as in 100% owned and controlled by the user. If the objective is to have a plain phone, rather than a mobile computer, a device consisting of just one baseband processor, without an extra application processor, is a technically superior solution for the problem at hand: greater battery life, less unnecessary complexity, fewer points of failure. And the existence of the Calypso chipset makes it possible for such a simple and efficient dumbphone to also be 100% free by virtue of the user owning and controlling the complete firmware. Then there are those people who do want their pocket-resident device to be a computer complete with an OS like GNU/Linux, rather than just a phone - but some of those people would also want that device to be 100% free including the telephony processor - and not just half-free aka half-pregnant. For this class of users, the best currently extant device is the GTA02, made by Openmoko - not your GTA04, and not my dumbphone either. Yes, there is the problem of these devices no longer being made - but instead of solving this problem by building a new device that would be as near-identical to the GTA02 as possible, including the Calypso (just like how I seek to copy the Pirelli DP-L10 as closely to verbatim as possible), you are making it worse by *actively destroying* the remaining stock of Openmoko phones! Hence we will likely always be fighting on opposite sides. VLR, SF Please can you save me from reading those walls of text filled with ideologically biased trolling, offenses and badmouthing of good work others do that you obviously are not interested in? If you have nothing better to contribute than a silly Upgrade? Surely you must have meant downgrade - why would anyone in his or her right mind voluntarily give up a device that is 100% freeable down to the modem (GTA02) for a Qualcomm-based closed proprietary product like yours? just to start your usual trolling based on the deserved reply, then you rather simply shut up. Many thanks! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html
Re: /gsm/com/rfcap: tri-band GSM modem believes itself to be quad-band
On Thu 16 January 2014 02:58:29 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: Hello Om community, In the course of hacking TI GSM firmwares, I have come across something that some of you may find interesting, or might even have some insight into. We all know that our good familiar Neo Freerunner (GTA02) was made in two versions: one with 900/1800/1900 MHz bands, the other with 850/1800/1900 MHz instead. The hardware difference is one RF SAW filter part populated differently on the same PCB; see this picture: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/File:Gta02a6_comms_chips_under_shield.JPG The SAW filters for the GSM downlink Rx path are the 3 little buggers near the upper right corner, immediately adjacent to the shiny metallic component which is the antenna switch. There is one Rx SAW filter for each of the 3 supported bands: one for 1800 MHz (both GTA02 versions), one for 1900 MHz (ditto), and one populated for either 850 or 900 MHz. (*I think* the topmost one out of the 3 in that picture is the one responsible for the 850 vs. 900 MHz difference, but please double-check that before attempting any surgery on your Neo!) Well, here is the part which will surely surprise at least some of you: the standard firmware for the GTA01/02 modem (which is the same for all versions, both GTA01 and GTA02) does not actually know which 3 frequency bands are supported by the device it runs on! And no, it does not auto-detect either: there is no way (short of ESP) for any firmware running on the Calypso/Iota/Rita chipset to divine what kind of SAW filter sits between that chipset and the antenna. Instead, as strange as it may sound, the modem (at least when running the standard mokoN firmware, see below) believes itself to be quad- band! In TI's universe, the standard way to teach a GSM device (phone or modem) which GSM frequency bands it supports is *not* to hard-code that knowledge in the firmware at compile time; instead this property is stored in a configuration file named /gsm/com/rfcap in the GSM device file system. Yes, TI-based GSM devices all use a flash file system with a very UNIX-like look and feel, including UNIX-style pathnames; see my write-up: https://bitbucket.org/falconian/freecalypso-sw/src/1852900ce9ea4ac52d4648f7 d9ca46897eb3640b/doc/TIFFS?at=default Like most files in TI's GSM FFS, /gsm/com/rfcap is a binary file, not ASCII. It is a file of exactly 16 bytes, and although I haven't found a formal document describing its format in plain English, we can study the code that reads this file and acts upon its content: http://scottn.us/downloads/peek/TCS3.2_N5.24_M18_V1.11_M23BTH_PSL1_src/g23m -gsm/rr/rr_csf.c The 16-byte file is being read into a variable of type EF_RFCAP, which is defined here: http://scottn.us/downloads/peek/TCS3.2_N5.24_M18_V1.11_M23BTH_PSL1_src/g23m /condat/com/include/pcm.h Lines 442 through 460 (inclusive) give the structure definition, which is followed by the definitions for the bit fields in each byte. And here is what this /gsm/com/rfcap file contains on a standard GTA02 modem, as revealed by a TIFFS parsing tool such as the mpffs-tools-r1 package I released last summer: 00 1F 41 14 00 00 00 00 50 00 00 A5 05 00 C0 00 Decoding the meaning of the rest of the bytes is left as an exercise for the reader, but I draw your attention to the 2nd byte, which is 1F. This byte indicates which RF bands are physically supported by the MS (mobile station) hardware, and 1F means quad-band, i.e., all 4 of 850, 900, 1800 and 1900 MHz. Thus even though my trusty GTA02 is only 900/1800/1900 MHz tri-band in reality, it believes itself to be quad-band! Digging some more, one finds that the 16 bytes quoted above appear in the moko10 and moko11 fw images (convert them from *.m0 to plain binary with the mokosrec2bin.c utility I wrote almost a year ago, then do the binary grep with the memmem() C library function), and further analysis reveals that these standard firmwares unconditionally overwrite the /gsm/com/rfcap file in FFS with the hard-coded string of bytes on every boot. To convince yourself of the latter fact, take a GTA02 modem with moko11 in it, change the rfcap file in FFS to something else, reboot the modem normally, and observe that the rfcap file will be reverted back to the 16 bytes shown above, claiming to be a quad-band GSM device. My leo2moko firmware does not contain this rfcap-resetting feature: it does not automatically overwrite the rfcap file with anything, and uses whatever settings happen to be written in the FFS (the modem's flash file system). At the present, there is no practical difference: if your modem ever ran moko10 or moko11 prior to being flashed with leo2moko, the content of the /gsm/com/rfcap file in FFS will be what moko10/11 wrote into it the last time it booted, which is the hard- coded I am quad-band value. But I wonder - and this is really the main reason for this
Re: Use of a FreeRunner
On Sat 21 December 2013 12:34:49 Ed Kapitein wrote: On 12/21/2013 11:58 AM, Philip Rhoades wrote: People, I have not used my FreeRunner for ages and probably should donate it someone who can make use of it but a thought occurred to me: It would be good to have something that could act like a SMS server eg I have a demand where if an (urgent) email comes into a particular account, that the contents of the email are able to be resent as an SMS out through a mobile device gateway to a number of phones - could OpenMoko be rejigged to do this somehow? Regards, Phil. Hi Phil, I did the same thing, but It is of limited use, a lot of mail is in HTML format and hard to convert to SMS. Also, you need to strip the headers etc. So you might want to write a script first and run it on real-life mails, before you put effort in reconfiguring the freerunner. Just my 0.02BTC Kind regards, Ed Plain HTML mails are usually forwarded to /dev/null by my spam filter right away. I haven't recently seen anybody but Jolla sending HTML-only mails instead of proper multipart/alternative at least. Also you shouldn't regularly watch mails by rendering their HTML content, this is a severe privacy and security threat. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Larger capacity battery
On Fri 20 December 2013 16:08:07 Dominic Walden wrote: Hello, I was thinking about purchasing another battery from Golden Delicious (as a spare/backup) but before I do does anyone know of any higher capacity batteries that are compatible with a Freerunner? The only ones mentioned on the wiki are 1100mAh or less. Someone[1] appears to have got it working with a 6Ah portable DVD player battery by using the battery circuit board from the Openmoko battery. I'm not sure if I want anything as drastic as that, but I would not be averse to doing the same with a battery the same size as the Openmoko one. Thanks, Dominic BL-6C: 1150mAh. And that's probably as good as it gets for cells fitting into GTA02 battery bay. Unlike NiMH the LiIon technology hasn't made noticeable evolution during last few years. When searching you may find a 2nd source battery that has a *real* capacity of maybe 20% higher. You will need to discard 95% scam before you find that one manufacturer. Maybe useful background can be found in: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtMoko v58 with 2.6.39 kernel and improved power management
On Thu 19 December 2013 08:21:54 Radek Polak wrote: the update interval is now as often as uevents are comming from linux kernel. You can enable logging-power management and check in log how often it is - i think it could be those 20s. Is there a way of increasing the frequency, and making it work in the background while the phone is in suspend? AFAIK the battery charge is updated even when phone is suspended - the chip in battery does this. Maybe we could force QtMoko to read it immediately after leaving suspend. The values should be fresh. I can check if it's easily doable. Yes, the chip does gapfree battery monitoring in GTA02-battery. Since FIQ needed to read out the (bq27x00 chip in) battery is kinda heavy, it makes sense to not update it too often. Also battery doesn't change that fast to make sense when updating more frequently, actually I think 20s is pretty frequent already. However an update cycle scheduled immediately after resume should be easily feasible and is the right thing[TM] to do :-) Maybe an even smarter way to handle all related issues would be to trigger a battery chip readout and update the battery gauge display whenever the display becomes visible - X11 should be able to send an according signal, I think. This would as well support up-to-date displayed values after closing a fullscreen app and after unblanking the screen. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [gta02] cannot boot from NAND
On Fri 13 December 2013 13:25:47 Ben Wong wrote: Are you using dfu-util or dd to write to the NAND? dd to write to NAND? :-o Don't do that! That's prone to fail, since dd can't handle bad blocks, and NAND per definitionem doesn't. That's why you got things like jffs2/ubifs /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
On Tue 10 December 2013 14:42:56 Christoph Bänsch wrote: I think that fact isn't new. The BIOS on a normal PC is a 'Second OS' too. There is one big difference: the BIOS is safer than the firmware of an GSM modem. The one big difference is: BIOS runs on main CPU, modem is a peripheral and for all free phones doesn't even share RAM with CPU. We have a third OS on lis302, a 4th on camera chip, a 5th inside PMU, on PC we have one in HDD and one in optical drive. We have one even in SD-card and so on and on /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
On Tue 10 December 2013 21:12:02 Bernard Schelberg wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: joerg Reisenweber jo...@openmoko.org To: community@lists.openmoko.org Cc: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 01:00:13 +0100 Subject: Re: the second operating system On Mon 09 December 2013 19:32:28 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: There is an osnews article named The second operating system hiding in every mobile phone, and I guess some people in this list may be interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an article with you. http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in _eve ry_mobile_phone This article is of pretty poor quality and quite misleading. :-S Deprecated! Do you have a better article on this subject that you can recommend? Or could you explain some more about how it is misleading? The reason I ask is that I'm having an ongoing conversation with colleagues about why I continue to support projects that are working to bring us a free phone. I thought the article referenced made some convincing points, but I don't want to quote it if it's incorrect. The article completely lacks any discussion of how entangled or not entangled the modem is with the first OS. On dumbphones there's even no first OS at all and the whole phone UI is handled by the modem OS. While on free phones like GTA0x and Neo900[1] the modem is as much a part of the first OS as e.g. a USB stick you plug to your PC is running a second OS on your PC. We actually have ~12 .. 15 other OSes running on any modern PC or smartphone, basically every smart chip comes with its own CPU that of course needs an OS. The modem is just another extremely large and smart chip of that category, but it's not at all entangled with the primary OS - ON FREE PHONES. For the usually android crap things look different, since often main CPU and modem share same chip and same RAM and you never can tell what the modem OS could do to the main OS. Hope that explained a bit of what I miss in that article. It's not incorrect but simply not comprehensive and thus misleading. A modem OS is exactly NOT similar to a PC BIOS second OS (see my other post). The article creates such misconceptions. cheers jOERG [1] http://neo900.org/faq#privacy -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the second operating system
On Mon 09 December 2013 19:32:28 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: There is an osnews article named The second operating system hiding in every mobile phone, and I guess some people in this list may be interested. Not that we didn't know about it, just wanted to share an article with you. http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_eve ry_mobile_phone This article is of pretty poor quality and quite misleading. :-S Deprecated! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fundraising for GTA04A5 has started!
On Fri 22 November 2013 18:22:40 thomasg wrote: On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Am 22.11.2013 um 17:21 schrieb Lukas Märdian: Am 22.11.2013 23:23, schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Am 22.11.2013 um 15:46 schrieb Pascal Gosselin: What about GPS specifications ? My company would have interest in multiple units if the GPS chip was capable of 5Hz or greater updates. Recent GPS chipsets all seem to have GPS/GLONASS capability, which is very nice to have. I think we can not easily change to use something different than the WSG0084 using a Sirf IV. Unfortunately, the latest datasheet still isn't telling anything about the max. update rate and any updates in the firmware: On page 15 it says: 3: Defined as current drawn during continuous operation at a 10Hz update rate. Could this be a hint, that the module can actually operate at a max. update rate of 10Hz? Unfortunately no. I also stumbled over this sentence but I think they mean the update rate of the current probe, i.e. they did measuer the supply current 10 times per second. Is there any GTA04 board, which already has a W2SG0084i installed? Yes, about 50 or 80 (I don't remember the exact figure) since the W2SG0004i was EOL and could easily be swapped. Unfortunately we don't have a mapping to serial numbers. If so, we could try to query/set the output rate according to chap. 5 NMEA Input Messages, using the message ID 103. That one unfortunately only allows to specify the reporting rate in multiples of 1 second, i.e. up to 255 seconds. But not 1/10 sec. Also chap. 6.2 OSP Input Messages look interesting, especially message 0x81. Cheers, Lukas Maybe someone knows a good technical contact to Wi2Wi? I only have very indirect support though a distributor. I don't think that will help you. The interface is SiRF's protocol, not Wi2Wi's and no documentation mentions of a mode above 1 Hz. To my knowledge, no SiRF chipset has support for a faster rate (at least in the frontend, internally, they might). So for 5/10 Hz a u-blox would be needed (or a SkyTraq, which are available up to 20 Hz). The question arises what for a update rate of 1Hz is useful anyway. Given the precision and jitter in GPS position fixes, a higher rate would probably be useful only for speed values which are derived from doppler effect and thus independant from the positions the GPS chip calculates. Given the assumption that the GPS equipment is mounted inside a mobile object to calculate data about that object's movement and position, maybe exploiting other generic data sources like accelerometer and gyro might yield better results when combined with a pretty standard 1Hz GPS. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Fri 15 November 2013 01:59:10 Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:50 AM, kardan kar...@riseup.net wrote: The following is more generally related to the GSM subject: http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_e very_mobile_phone I really don't understand this article. It's like it's some kind of surprise that GSM modems run firmware on their processors. It's so obvious, yet everyone seems surprised and shares this article like it was something insightful. Probably you know this, but I feel like clearing it up to some other readers that may be confused: This whole topic is exactly about such OS hiding in the modem and I guess everyone who was following Openmoko struggling with firmware bugs already know that it's buggy and probably not very hard to exploit (AFAIR even some pretty standard GPRS usage may cause buffer overflows). [quote] Lastly, the baseband processor is usually the master processor, whereas the application processor (which runs the mobile operating system) is the slave. [/quote] Nothing more to say. This article isn't worth the CPU time to render it on my screen. You can hack and exploit the baseband as much as you like, it stays baseband can can do nothing it couldn't do anytime on any location in the network. IOW, don't worry about what's going on in your modem. It's even less interesting than what's going on in your harddisk of your PC. Since the harddisk could actually introduce a infected bootloader or kernel to your system, the modem is sth you rarely ever boot from. ;-P incredible Thanks Dos1! :-) /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo900
just a little reminder, since it might have passed unnoticed by a few (though I wonder how that could've happened) check out http://neo900.org It's GTA04's sibling cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Sun 10 November 2013 10:33:47 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: What's also interesting, I have an impression, that power managment works much better. With turned on gsm, it lasts more than 3-4 hours, as before. I'll measure how long will it stay today. But I already see it's becoming usable. Yes, I did not fix hardware. No, I did not enable deep sleep in /etc/frameworkd.conf. So I did not do anything to fix the issue. Are you *sure* about that? Starting your room heating may already suffice - no kidding. Please don't try to outsmart the experts. #1024 been pretty complex and I suggest you learn about it before claiming moko11 has a bug regarding that. :-/ cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Sun 10 November 2013 11:15:22 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: I have documented what I have done, and I have a manual draft on my computer. If I can get a wiki account, I will add the information there. A good example why we should keep wiki in moderated mode. All you could contribute based on your reports so far is mere random noise confusing the hell out of users. Neither #1024 nor SMS nor power management is *ANY* related to the modem firmware - you are *definitely* observing (and spreading as facts?) some random effects that have no correlation whatsoever. Now adding this to wiki would cause another few dozen (or hundreds) of users to eventually try to reproduce your achievements and add their own success stories to wiki, suggesting even more snakeoil and doing more havok to the system and the info available. As a general rule don't spread any info when you can't *teach* people about tha basics of that info - here: as long as you don't have a story which code in calypso firmware needs to get changed in which way and why, to achieve a certain improvement, youplese don't even think about suggesting messing with this stuff in wiki or elsewhere. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Sun 10 November 2013 18:03:36 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: I know, that people tend to make connection between events. I know, that often it is useful, and often it is wrong to make those connections. I don't know why do I see an improvement, and I accept the possibility, that it's because of other firmware. How can we know if it is? More testing, more users trying it. Try the firmware and write there your observations. Measure something if you can. Pretty evil and rogue approach to suggest coming up with some nonsense that other more competent people tell you is definitely unrelated, and suggest other people should waste their time on trying to reproduce your findings, while you can't come up with any sane story why those patches or fixes you claim to see are real. How about this: my last 3 firmware flashes were in the night between 3:00 and 3:30, I claim this could mean something worth investigating and now I ask other users to get up in the night and reflash their modem firmware to verify they see more responsiveness in scrolling screens after that. *maybe* you're able to get my point. And no, this is NOT about censorship, this is about taking care of OM's customer base, protecting them from suggestions to clean their device in dishwasher engine and the like. BR jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Sun 10 November 2013 18:27:45 Nick wrote: Quoth Norayr Chilingarian: What I would write in wiki is step by step instructions how to build the firmware, free loader, and flash it. I don't think it can confuse someone in some way. What about moderation, then, well, what you are saying is against collaborative work, like it is in Wikipedia. Everyone, by even not having Wikipedia account could go and write everything he wants. However, as we see, there are more sane people rather than idiots, and Wikipedia is mostly correct. I think Joerg was worried about you writing a page saying this firmware improves power consumption before more testing and consulting with more knowledgeable people. I'm sure we all agree that a place to discuss ideas and possibilities (as wrong as they may turn out to be) is valuable, but Joerg has no doubt been around long enough to have to deal with the fallout of those discussions / conjectures being left in places where people take theories that had been disproved elsewhere as fact, and shared the disinformation wider. Which ultimately can give a bad impression to a project, as well as bad experience to others. Which is a long way of saying: the mailing list is the best place for discussion, and the wiki should be reserved for things which we are more sure about. So instructions on building and loading the firmware would be fine for the wiki, but speculations about its power saving (or sms receiving) improvements are best for the mailing list. Which I know is what you suggested, but that wasn't clear initially. !00% ACK, sorry if that wasn't clear enough from what I wrote. Thanks for helping me out :-) /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First small steps toward free GSM firmware
On Sun 10 November 2013 22:53:55 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: About wiki, first of all, we have new, legally free (in those repressive countries (: ) tool - the flasher. Secondly we have the alternative firmware _with_source code. I belive it worth to write there about free flasher, how to build it, and how to use it, not only with leo2moko port. The flasher can be used to flash moko11 too. Also, it worth to write there how to build the leo2moko firmware. Anyone may add whatever political concern she has to the same wiki page. Absolutely. nothing wrong in instructions how to build and flash new calypso firmware. Just please don't sugest it might fix issues that users may conceive they have. Placebo effect is all powerful. And more users flashing new firmware and then looking for any improvements they might want to spot will result in more such reports about new firmware improves XYZ which agian pulls in new users tempted to try and believe. By all means write instructions based on clear facts! We need those. Sorry if I sounded rude. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Kickstarter: Open Source Graphics Processor (GPU)
On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 21:49 +0300, Balint Szente wrote: On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:31:13 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Has anyone experience with the Zynq-7000? It has dual Cortex A9 with VFP/Neon - but apparently lacks a GPU... Such a combination could be comparable with OMAP3/4 in computation power. Exactly, it has just a simple framebuffer. Even a basic 2D accelerator would be a huge improvement to save the ARM CPU power. I consider this GPU very useful for the Parallella board for example. http://www.adapteva.com/products/parallella/parallella/ The GPU would stay in the Zynq-7020, so the Epiphany chip can do other dedicated tasks (numerical calculus, simulations, whatever). Hi, I have experience with Zynq 7020. The Processor is Cortex-A9 with up to 800Mhz (usually 667MHz) If you take 7045 or 7100, you get up to 1GHz, but then you to buy licence for developing FPGA. For 7020 Xilinx tool chain is for free. My guesses are, for an actual phone to few processing power, for 3d acceleration, the FPGA may be too small. But for a geek phone, FPGA gets you much freedom... br Joerg ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Wed 09 October 2013 20:47:01 Fernando Martins wrote: It is laudable to have more hardware open and it would be nice if goldelico would release the schematics in source. But I don't see them has having such obligation neither I see any inconsistence in their actions or words. Goldelico has certainly contributed to the cause of open hardware and you are merely trying to put shame on them by rhetorical manipulation to force them to do something they obviously don't have to. It is your actions I don't find laudable. ANd causing a lot of wasted energy. +1 thanks! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat 05 October 2013 11:09:02 Parchet Michaël wrote: Hello, Your free hardware idon't use the Planned obsolescence concept isn't it ? Thanks for your answer. Best regards mparchet Now THIS is a good question! And the answer is: of course NO planned osolescence, we build that stuff for ourselves first and foremost :-) I want to *use* my device, once it's built, and I want to do that for a looong time to come. cheers jOERG (please read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:JOERG ! jOERG is my signature, I don't like to see it counterfeit ;-D ) -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The open hardware phone project that's had the most interest
In the last 50 years I've seen only _one_ truly modular concept for electronic circuits that would basically meet the flexibility requirements you are asking for: http://makezine.com/2011/12/08/the-braun-lectron-system-retro-circuit- dominoes/ /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat 05 October 2013 19:37:59 Bob Ham wrote: Hm, I wonder what you want to prove? I want you to stop describing the GTA04 as open hardware. You seem to be aware that there is a difference between what you describe as open hardware and what others describe as open hardware and yet you ignore this discrepancy and continue as if what you're saying is true because it accords with your own personal definition. I want to make it undeniably clear that describing the GTA04 as open hardware is wrong. According to your own personal definition. What you're doing is nothing to do with open hardware. The idea that you can pop some schematic bitmaps in the back of your manual while refusing access to the source files, and then rightfully label your company's product as open hardware is fallacious. Please stop labelling your company's product as open hardware. I seems that all your quotations and arguments refer to some form of licence finally. You can't request anybody who's disclosing his sourcecode to refrain from calling it open source as long as s/he's not claiming it adheres to a certain licence like e.g. GPL. Same applies to calling a hardware open hardware as long as it doesn't claim to adhere to whatever open-hardware-licence (and heck, there are so many diferent licences like there are different open-hardware projects out there, see the wili pages you quoted). Bottom line: when GolDeliCo's definition of open hardware doesn't meet yours, there's hardly anything you can do about it. I suggest you just check the particular project's licencing to find out about the details of open just like you have to do with every arbitrary other open hardware project. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
on a sidenote: Was KDE no open source software when Qt wasn't FOSS (for those who still remember that time)? In layout project files they might even be (C) non-free libraries for e.g. component footprints, which would *forbid* disclosing them to the general public. Is the hardware less open then? Should EE create their own footprint lib to be allowed to give the rest of the docs to the community, since without footprints in project file the whole project isn't open anymore? I think sometimes it's pretty tedious to discuss hw subjects with people who come from a sw background. So I will stop contributing to this futile discussion now. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Sat 05 October 2013 21:03:44 Stefan Monnier wrote: But none of them is building modular devices. I wonder why. For the same reason they don't make their hardware open, for the same reason they don't make their software Free, for the same reason they don't want you to have root access on your phone. Stefan Nonsense, read very enlightening post of Ian Sterling (Hi speedevil! :-D) somewhere in this thread! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Fri 04 October 2013 19:48:19 Bob Ham wrote: You've previously said that the reason you refuse to release the hardware source files, making the device more open, is because you expect money in return. Are you now saying restricting access to the hardware source files is somehow a design decision? Refuse? RESTRICTING access? Honestly guys, what are you thinking we are doing here? Does Nikolaus owe you something (more) since he already gave you more than anybody else usually does? This is a project as open as defined by the author, thus everything that's not open/free is not open/free, and everything offered to the community as CCbyCA or whatever is a gift to community, with no liabilities whatsoever arising from that for the one donating it. Period. End of discussion. Do we have to feel bad about the decision not to disclose project files? Definitely NOT! May you _ask_ why they don't get disclosed? Sure. But don't _question_ the answer you get, and don't even complain when you get no answer at all either. You're not entitled to anything. NOBODY needs project files to use this product and make the most of it, in any way you like. You get schematics and component placement and technical manual and datasheets. And on reasonable request GolDeliCo probably will even hand out layout as a number of pdf files, so you could check whether it's possible to drill a hole at pos X-Y into PCB. That's it. Be happy or get over it. jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Thu 03 October 2013 08:56:43 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I know. But I'm not talking about swapping the actual CPU or the actual display. I'm talking about swapping the CPU module or the display module. I.e. create a standardized module interface around off-the-shelf (i.e. non-standardized) components. Yes, there is even a standard for an interface between displays and CPU. Well, even two or three: MIPI, LVDS, HDMI/DVI. It would have its own cost (in money and in size), but in the long run, I hope the benefits of relying on standardized interfaces would make up for it. MIPI is already doing all this: http://www.mipi.org/specifications http://mipi.org/about-mipi/mipi-interfaces-mobile-platform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Industry_Processor_Interface Everyone is there, ARM, TI, even Apple: Remains to annotate that all those interfaces have rather tough electrical specs, e.g. MIPI HSI (often used to interface to modems) has a max PCB trace length of 15..20mm iirc, among other requirements that basically forbid usage of any connectors at all, for sure the iuse of cheap connectors. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone (right now)
On Wed 25 September 2013 21:32:13 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 25.09.2013 um 20:45 schrieb Stefan Monnier: Production problems show almost immediately, even if there is only one person. And they show after making let's say 20 units. I.e. it does not need to produce let's say 1000 units to find real production problems. And if you produce 1000 and find that 5 are bad, you don't worry as much as if you have 2 bad in 20. Yield of 995/1000? Amazing!! A Yield of 950/1000 is already considered good. That's what PV runs (and later on production QA) are for, to determine and (if necessary) improve, and sustain your production yield. No users needed for that. Actually it would be a very poor idea to ship PV devices without tests to users and hope for them to find the lemons. Also, if you can upgrade the screen and the CPU separately, you might attract a few other users, who aren't so interested in Freedom but do like the idea of customizing their phones. That is a dream that is not realistic. Every display has a different connector (there is no standardization!). And every CPU has different signals and power supply needs. I.e. you can swap an OMAP3505 for an OMAP3530 or an DM3730 but nor for an OMAP4 or OMAP5 or Snapdragon or i.MX6. Because they are not designed for this way of use. Layman's idea of modularization, which never will fly in embedded. All the real progress made in embedded been based on new interfaces that were smarter and faster and smaller than the previously used ones. So it's like saying if Industry PC Standard Architecture had used a standardized interface (like ISA) then Pcs had evolved faster and were cheaper than they are today. Actually it needed PCI since ISA wasn't appropriate for the next generation of hardware technology. Same with embedded chips, just there you have like 5 duzen interfaces, and most chips have more than one interface, SoCs have like 20 of them. /j - () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
Hi! just as a short newsflash: we got 258 votes-of-interest and even 30 that are willing to pay =700EUR for a Neo900 aka GTA04-NeoN board plus housing and other needed parts. Follow the hype at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
On Wed 28 August 2013 10:33:47 Paul Wise wrote: There is some info about how different Maemo (all versions) is from Debian in these files: http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/sources.new http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/sources.patches http://dex.alioth.debian.org/census/Maemo/patches/ These are derived from this data: https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/Maemo Maybe related resp helping: http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages (NB that's not my POV, usual disclaimers apply), and http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages The maemo fremantle porting project is not targeted at creating a fork or new release of maemo OS, but strictly to keep compatibility from N900 to Neo900 so users can ideally restore a backup from their old N900 to their new Neo900 and the device acts exactly like user got used to. Also we don't plan to recompile the repositories with all the applications, and for the much needed core apps like dialer we even can't do that since they are closed. However you're free to run any distro you like on GTA04 and GTA04-N900 aka Neo900, just the maemo community fremantle porting task force will not bother about rebasing on debian or whatever, the goals of that task force are clearly defined. cheers /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
On Wed 28 August 2013 22:21:18 Norayr Chilingarian wrote: [...] Also, I believe many apps like GPS apps which use liblocation won't work, because liblocation is proprietary, and needs to be rewritten with the same interface. GolDeliCo won't ship the Neo900 with maemo pre-installed. We got (or will have) a fremantle porting task force at maemo community that does the porting, provides installable rootfs, and explains how to install and use the closed blobs like liblocation. Nokia donated maemo to community, and we had the permission from Nokia to re-use and even re-distribute the blobs since years already. While rewriting blobs is a long term minor goal of CSSU [1], we won't do a complete rewrite of every closed blob for Neo900 fremantle-port. Actually if we did, we could use any arbitrary hardware ülatform and just recompile the completely liberated fremantle for it. We wouldn't need a GTA04-N900 that's close to the original N900 hw-wise. The idea of GTA04-N900 is to reduce the hw-diffs to an amount that can get handled in kernel/drivers by patching them. You probably know that kernel and kernel driver modules are FOSS in maemo. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery graphs - was Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
On Wed 28 August 2013 00:29:18 NeilBrown wrote: On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:46:12 +1000 NeilBrown ne...@suse.de wrote: On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 15:31:19 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Hm. That sounds quite different from the situation about 1 year ago when you did the first releases of QtMoko and I always thought that the 3.7 kernel is working well enough, so that I started to add new features. Has it become worse since then? I like drawing graphs. So I did - see attachment. For the last year or so my GTA04 has been logging the power usage during suspend for every suspend cycle longer than a few seconds. I do this by reading the charge_now value from the bq27000 in the battery, comparing the before and after values, and dividing by the number of seconds. I currently have my phone configured to wake from suspend every 5 minutes, check that the modem is still working, and go back to suspend. This has helped collect quite a lot of values. To get the graphs I collected all those values, discarded negative numbers (when the battery was charging) and a few numbers that were clearly ridiculous (numbers more than 1 amp), and sorted the remainder. So we get a cumulative frequency graph of different current levels. The red line ('/tmp/uamp') is for the last couple of days since last reboot. This is running 3.7 with offmode disabled. The green line ('tmp/uamp2') is for the last year, running a variety of different kernels. Obviously there is a very different number of samples in each. 342 in uamp 10031 in uamp2. So I normalised the X values so the graphs are comparable. They are much the same shape which suggests the pattern is fairly robust. The Y axis is microamps. The green values below 2 (20mA) are with offmode enabled I assume. The red values are all greater because I have offmode turned off to improve reliability. The steps are a bit of a surprise. They are all about 2mA. I don't think this is an artefact of the precision with which measurements are taken as the charge value read from the battery has a much higher precision. I think it must be an actual 2mA difference in (average) current usage. This could be 2mA more for the whole time, or 4mA more with a 50% duty cycle etc. So if we can make off-mode really usable (which possibly means find and fix some bug in the omap usb code) and if we can find out what is causing these 2mA steps and resolve that, then might might be a little closer to acceptable power usage. I might try running for a while with the modem turned off and see what result I get. Here are results with modem powered off. 1/ The minimum current is higher!!! without the modem at work. - 28mA rather than 24mA. 2/ The maximum is much lower. 36mA vs 97mA. 3/ We still see a 2mA step. Most of the values are 30mA or 32mA. A few are 2mA lower, or 2,4,6 mA higher (roughly). This is very strange. The very rare high values when modem is working are quite believable. The steps and the high minimum are harder to explain. Suppose some parallel bi-directional buss ended up in suspend with both ends driving outputs. Suppose also that if they were driving the same value it would cause minimal current drain, but if they were driving different values it would cause 2mA drain on each line that was unbalanced. Then if the actual output bits on one side were random as we enter suspend, we would see a range of different multiples of 2mA in current drain. If this parallel bus were related to the modem, then when the modem wasn't in use we would see much less variability. But maybe higher average as some bits might stuck on a bad value. Now there is a bi-directional bus between the OMAP and the USB PHY. But I would be very surprised if both (or either) side were driving outputs on suspend, and I count at least 12 steps in the green line, so it would have to include the 8 data line and 4 control lines ... which is getting increasingly unlikely. I might be able to try holding the PHY in reset during suspend. That should force all pins to tri-state. However first I think I'll try 15 minute suspends rather than 5 minute and see if that makes a difference. Is there another credible explanation for the 2mA steps? NeilBrown check ULPI. also check the bus from CPU to musb core. And why would both ends need to be driven? In my book a 2mA is sth like 1.8V into 1kR termination, for example /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/
Re: Battery graphs - was Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
also check video bus. We know on GTA02 the display used iirc 20mA plus for a black screen. Oh and for the 1kR termination, just driving high a dataline that runs to an unpowered chip will eat quite some current via clamp diodes from input pin to 0V-VDD, often even enough to power the chip ;-D Called reverse feeding /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
On Mon 26 August 2013 13:17:09 Radek Polak wrote: On Saturday, August 24, 2013 03:20:10 PM joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Sat 24 August 2013 14:22:55 Radek Polak wrote: 1/ poor power management [...] something. But i always worked in userspace. I barely understand kernel and i have no EE skills and equipment to contribute. I can contribute only as a tester. I thought that i will deliver working userspace and IMO QtMoko is very good at it. But without working kernel and HW there is not much point to improve it. many thanks for this contribution, it's already a better help than much of the discussion about what's wrong with our community and the GTA04 project at large. However one remark about it: it's not that simple to blame kernel for poor power management. What we learned from last maybe 6 years of different OM distros and from maemo and mer and nitdroid etc is: poor power management is way too often caused by userland, like sensorfw and WLAN connection manager and X11/windowmanager and audio (alsa/PA) and whatnot else. Yup, after playing with alsa settings i could save a few mAmps on GTA04 too. Often it's even rogue apps that do silly stuff like updating their system status icon 25 times per second or constantly chatting with internet or even just polling files when you should use inotify instead. Kernel power saving measures are relatively simple to test and fix, and usually it's not kernel to blame for abysmal standby time and/or operation time. To give you a simple example: on N900 maemo you have scanning period in settings-internet, which makes device scan for WLAN APs only every 5, 10, ... even 30 min. This is needed since the WLAN chip cuts thru the battery in less than 3 hours when you constantly scan for APs. Clearly a userland issue where kernel can't do much. Now you can start to blame kernel WLAN driver for not doing proper powersaving but that won't help establish a decently working usable OS on N900. I think in case of QtMoko on GTA04 we can blame kernel/HW a little bit more, since we are using suspend to RAM whereas N900 is always on (which really cool btw). So while GTA04 is in standby there should be idealy just PMU+RAM+modem turned on, everything else should be off. But something is wrong and noone has yet figured what it is. At best there is ~16mA with omap enable_off_mode - but then we hit imprecise external abort bug so currently we have ~22mA at best. If you compare this with GTA02 or N900 it's really bad. GTA02 is 12mA and i'd say N900 is even better. Together with reenumerating modem it makes GTA04 barely usable even for a few hardcore supporters but unusable for normal users. Regards Radek Yes, absolutely (I can't confirm neither deny your facts). N900 easily goes down to ~10mA in *standby*, see http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption and also http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management What I can think of are floating lines making chips eat more than they should - may particularly due to suspend mode. Let's hope we'll iron that out during next few months cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
On Mon 26 August 2013 21:47:08 arne anka wrote: the most striking part of jörg's n900 idea seems not to attract any comments -- he said, he'd know at least one company who would be interested. Oh? where did I say this? Been a communication error. Or a complete storage dropout ;-) Sorry both happens to me sometimes, so I'd really be interested in a pointer or citation. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04-N900 vel. Neo900
On Mon 26 August 2013 14:35:50 Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: [...] Joerg's idea includes full port of Maemo 5 (Fremantle) to allow N900 users to have drop-in upgrade - just like now GTA04 is for GTA01/02 owners. I think that can increase interest a lot! Indeed I consider maemo fremantle compatibility a key feature of this project, since fremantle is proven on OMAP3 platform, both for power management and general every day usability. And userbase at maemo mostly expects compatibility. We (would) need to adapt GTA04 to mach resp resemble N900 enough so that all remaining differences can get handled on kernel/driver level. On an encouraging sidenote, we have already at least 2 volunteers for doing that kernel morphing, one of them even a ex-nokian kernel maintainer \o/ There are still some _severe_ issues that need to get evaluated/tackled ASAP: *) instabilities/issues reported for GTA04, with power management and modem **) USB / musb core in OMAP which is a greedy hog as long as powered. *) camera (N900 has 5MP with autofocus) *) N900 has 32GB eMMC *) interfacing the flex circuit board (aka ribbon cable) connection to to screen half, that also has ALS, secondary (VGA?) camera, proxy sensor, 3color LED *) component sourcing for speakers, antennae, et al *) completely different charging (N900 uses bq24150) *) AV-connector with auto-detection of headphones, headset, AV (maybe simply replace that in userland by a requester to pick type of cable/connection *) audio at large, N900 has a quite different circuitry for whole audio, and fremantle has some nasty PA modules, some of them even closed blobs (XPROT speaker protection, some limiter/compressor/EQ/overtemp-cutout) *)... I'm afraid there's more to come, that I don't see right now Anyway, the general mood is best described by extremely excited and it seems it's maybe worth following this idea some further, even with the above points pending to get solved. See http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 I hope I didn't state anything that Nikolaus will bash me for when tomorrow he reads all the stuff that happened. The poll I added on that ^^^ thread on tmo however shows that 7/8 of users are expecting us to compete with Samsung for the price range. Well, that been expected. The resulting discussion is maybe helpful nevertheless. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reasons why people could be interested in this community
On Sat 24 August 2013 13:00:45 Bob Ham wrote: On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 09:56 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Why are you still a member of this community I want freedom. I want a phone that runs 100% free software, including any firmware for component devices and also including firmware running on the baseband processor. I want the same freedom for the hardware. The openmoko-community and openphoenux-community mailing lists are places where I expect like-minded people will congregate. and participating in this discussion? Even though I believe the GTA04 product from Golden Delicious is not viable, I don't expect it will be the last effort to produce a free phone. Indeed, if Golden Delicious release the source files for the board, the GTA04 design could form a base for the development of the next effort. I hope this will happen. You say gta04 is a fine basis to do further improvements but it's not worth getting the device itself. That's insane. HNS and his small crew invested substantial time and *money* into actually *producing* a working device and all you need to do is buy one. This would allow golddelico to continue their awesome work. But what you are interested in seems not at all focused on joining efforts but to fork and try on your own if you could do any better than Nikolaus. I consider this rogue and silly. Plus you evidently have not the faintest idea of what's the real troubles in hw design and production, otherwise you'd not think you could do substantially better than goldelico. Every fool can draw up a nice (though most certainly not bug-free) schematics, and even creating a PCB layout is not that complicated, there are FOSS tools for that. The problems are somewhere else, and a project that considers PCB gerbers of GTA04 as an indispensable prerequisite for a new design, well such project is doomed to fail from beginning and I'd consider it detrimental to the actually existing and working GTA04 project since - even if not the manpower of those devels who focus on the new project due to lack of expertise and insight into where the major problems of any such project are - it however will deprive GTA04 project of possible customers that might contribute to GTA04 (and successors) with their money, if they weren't lured into waiting for another competing project started by a few guys who obviously think they can do better since they don't know sh*t about hw manufacturing. my 2 ct about this weird arguing here. A word to Nikolaus: I'm a bit sad that you ignore the fact that openmoko *did* share gerbers, PADS project files, BOM, whatever, on request. We shared everything, sometimes under a NDA when we had to do that way. And maybe you didn't know but Wolfgang pestered all EE pretty badly to allow community contribution, just we never really could come up with a workflow how to make such process work. The problem with that is the expertise of community contributions which take ten times the manpower of company EE staff to explain why it can't get done this way, than what company EE would need to come up with an own better draft for the same thing. OM been a company with lots of money so we didn't worry too much about community competing projects, and eventually I even convinced Sean and Wolfgang and others that no commercial competitor will snatch away and copy- cat our product either. Bottom line: to claim OM never allowed community contribution and never shared PCB or project files is pretty incorrect. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
On Sat 24 August 2013 14:22:55 Radek Polak wrote: 1/ poor power management [...] something. But i always worked in userspace. I barely understand kernel and i have no EE skills and equipment to contribute. I can contribute only as a tester. I thought that i will deliver working userspace and IMO QtMoko is very good at it. But without working kernel and HW there is not much point to improve it. many thanks for this contribution, it's already a better help than much of the discussion about what's wrong with our community and the GTA04 project at large. However one remark about it: it's not that simple to blame kernel for poor power management. What we learned from last maybe 6 years of different OM distros and from maemo and mer and nitdroid etc is: poor power management is way too often caused by userland, like sensorfw and WLAN connection manager and X11/windowmanager and audio (alsa/PA) and whatnot else. Often it's even rogue apps that do silly stuff like updating their system status icon 25 times per second or constantly chatting with internet or even just polling files when you should use inotify instead. Kernel power saving measures are relatively simple to test and fix, and usually it's not kernel to blame for abysmal standby time and/or operation time. To give you a simple example: on N900 maemo you have scanning period in settings-internet, which makes device scan for WLAN APs only every 5, 10, ... even 30 min. This is needed since the WLAN chip cuts thru the battery in less than 3 hours when you constantly scan for APs. Clearly a userland issue where kernel can't do much. Now you can start to blame kernel WLAN driver for not doing proper powersaving but that won't help establish a decently working usable OS on N900. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reasons why people could be interested in this community
On Sat 24 August 2013 16:12:23 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: A word to Nikolaus: I'm a bit sad that you ignore the fact that openmoko did share gerbers, PADS project files, BOM, whatever, on request. We shared everything, sometimes under a NDA when we had to do that way. Sorry, but I didn't know that until now. I just knew about the PDF schematics and the BOM and the 3D CAD data and the component placement plan. This was enough to start the GTA04 project, so I did not research further into what else would have been available on request. Sure thing, and I wasn't to suggest otherwise. I also completely understand that nobody will hand out production process details to somebody who has not a single good reason why they are needed by him/her, except for cloning. When I get me an icecream cone at that italian guy, I of course won't ask him for every single detail of his production process since that's a rather bold approach. I can ask the guy about what components the icecream is made of and I'm sure he's happy to discuss the topic with me... Meh I digress. Nikolaus, keep up the good work please! Openmoko indeed did not *publish* the PADS project files, they got handed out on demand to guys we considered will make fair use of them. They had a story what for they needed them (master thesis etc) - nobody ever came and asked for our project files to start his own business based on that. And no wonder since it would've been extremely silly. Anyway, to all those guys out there acting as if Nikolaus owes you one: He invested REAL MONEY (5 digits?) and MONTHS (2 digits) of his working time into bringing some good stuff to community. Now you come and say that looks nice, please hand us the complete production process so we can do it ourselves and not pay anything to you for all your awesome work. I really wonder what you think this project is. Every other company would've kept the schematics closed and just deliver a blackbox product, and just because Goldelico opted for an open and public development process you think the money and time Nikolaus and co invested are legally the property of community now? :-o A quite disappointing mindset which I detect here. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crowdfunding an Ubuntu smartphone
On Fri 23 August 2013 10:35:38 Bob Ham wrote: On 2013-08-23 07:26, openm...@pulster.de wrote: the GTA04 is a ready-to-use OpenSource smartphone. The GTA04 *is* out of production and no longer for sale. Says who? It *could* be the motherboard in a ready-to-use smartphone but it *isn't*. UHUH! There are no other reasons why it isnt available, just damn investment $$ are missing. If money is the only problem then why is nobody running a fundraising campaign? I don't think money is the only problem. I think it's up to you to answer your own question, instead of implicitly accusing highly honored guys like Nikolaus and Christoph of not telling the truth. To be utterly clear: hardware talks louder than (your) words, I had a complete GTA04 in my mail, and everybody (even you) can start a fundraiser. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
could everybody please stop answering without checking and fixing the damn subject?! THANKS! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Building a new totally free phone
On Fri 23 August 2013 21:07:14 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: I would be very happy to have a really free modem firmware on my GTA02 in the meantime. Then maybe you should try talking some sense into Joerg etc - maybe they'll listen to you more than they are willing to listen to me. I wonder how a single brain can produce that much nonsense and be that dull. You seem a smart guy otherwise, so I really don't grok how you can be so weird in this single issue. I told you everybody who been interested - except you - got access to the sources you're so terribly _not_ wanting (I wonder what now. Do you need them or not? And if you do, then for what since you already got the full radio stack which OM never had, and you're not interested in the AT interpreter of GTA0x modem but rather in any UI which obviously OM also never had). Everybody except you since I don't give access to stuff that's under NDA to a guy who's calling OM a bunch of rogue idiots and threatening to shoot me. Also you clearly say you're not asking for me handing that stuff to you (verbatim, see your prev mail) , you want me to PUBLISH it under my full name and stating loud that I don't give a flying F about the NDA contracts I'm under, thus ruining my professional career just to meet your idea of how industry and FOSS and community and the world at large works or should or ought work. Grow up, dude! You're biting the hand that feeds you, like a rabid dog. Won't happen (again, recall glamo?). You're seriously blaming OM and its employees for not violating the agreements they had to sign (and believe me, we tried hard to avoid signing any such agreements, since OM was planned to be as open as feasible), to make the whole project possible? I honestly wonder what kind of mater is inside your skull. YOU are not even worth this lengthy answer, and nobody else got the problem YOU have with OM calypso firmware sources, since everybody else asking kindly had access to all the stuff since 2011, and nobody found it worth doing much leaking about it. Since in some regard, the calypso firmware *is* OSS, it's just not FOSS. Get that! Wrap your head around it. And stop throwing darts at my picture at your wall, you honestly need to find a new and better reason for living. Good bye! /j [ps: trying hard to not elaborate on a guy like you talking about morally correct behaviour, and about the paradox you're exposing there in just 2 sentences] -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 353, Issue 3
On Fri 23 August 2013 22:45:05 Bob Ham wrote: I can't see anything that people will cause people to make that decision. This is why I'm wondering what cause *you* see. You said you're waiting. What do you believe is going to happen? What are you waiting *for*? What is going to occur that will cause people to decide to spend money on the GTA04? I can't see any reason. A train stopped at a disconnected signal light waiting for it to go green, doesn't make any sense to me. So WHAT? What's your point??? Waiting is a sustainable and valid state. When you can't see any reason then why do you insist in any sort of answer from somebody else? I don't think we owe you something. Can't you finally come up with some *suggestions* or - even better - real actions that would help? Instead you perpetuate this moot arguing about if there's sth that can be done or if it's reasonable or even allowable to *wait* for 200 preorders, instead of simply declaring the whole thing out of production or discontinued as you seem to insist it is. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re. Building a totally new smart phone
On Sat 24 August 2013 02:04:45 Adam Bogacki wrote: I would like to add my vote to the proposal of a totally new non-smart phone. [...] I think there is increasing demand for a secure non-smart phone. There IS NO secure phone! See any of the dozen other mails in this very thread about that topic. Or rather, there's not even any insecure phone - means you can't make it more secure by reviewing the firmware of the modem, since there IS NOTHING insecure in the firmware. It's not like you could kick out any rogue hidden backdoors since there aren't any, I won't elaborate again why that's evident. There are also no flaws in any security related encryptions or whatever that you could fix in the phone firmware, since those flaws (if any relevant) exist in the protocol spec and you need to fix both ends, mobile and BTS. And this still leaves all the other vulnerabilities of all public networks which always allow eavesdropping on a multitude of levels not under the control of the phone's firmware. Increasing demand for secure phone? I offer the only solution: adjust your habits, improve your knowledge. The phone is as secure as the user who operates it. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community