Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
Am 02.02.2008 um 01:50 schrieb Christopher Earl: Porting all the Linux stuff to OSX should be pretty easy afterall , OSX is just a Unix clone too For larger project (not relying on the least common denominator) it is not as easy as you might think. There are important differences between OSX and Linux: * endianness (on older Macs) * availability of some system calls * availability of some system tools * same features, options, syntax for system tools * availability of some libraries * same features, options, syntax for libraries Even worse if you want seamless GUI integration. Look e.g. at OpenOffice/NeoOffice and the outcome. It works but is ugly on a Mac. The fink and MacPorts projects have done a lot of work to adapt and provide build-recipies for many tools and libraries. But sometimes this is incomplete or even outdated because it needs a lot more effort to make packages OSX compatible instead of adapting to different Linux flavours (which sometimes differ only in search paths). Even automaked projects sometimes have issues. A prominent example which is very important for the question in the subject: nobody did succeed to completely install and run OpenEmbedded on OSX so far. The reasons are like described above * some tools are not directly available for OSX * or have a different option syntax * there are inherent assumptions of shell syntax features that Linux has recently added but where OSX uses an older BSD shell * some packages compile and run test code which assumes a full set of Linux header files * some build phases assume that Linux specific system tools (e.g. creating mounting file systems) are available * ... So you have to choose between porting some hundred dependencies first or installing Linux in a VM... Even more challenging is the other way round: porting OSX (i.e. Darwin) to the Neo. Why would one consider that? IMHO the most interesting part is IOKit and its power management concepts. This could simplify device driver development and porting to new devices. It is quite similar to the Linux kernel modules concept but more powerful (you can write multithreaded drivers in C++). Porting to ARM devices is possible since Darwin is open source. And the iPhone also runs on an ARM processor. But I think such a project requires a lot of heroes looking for ultimate challenges. And don't heroes only exist in fairy tales? -- hns ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
I'm in a very similar situation as described below. Although I think the situation just got a lot more complicated with Nokia's acquisition of Trolltech (might see a greater push for Qtopia on a lot more devices). Not to mention over here in Australia the iPhone still has yet to be launched. I'm very curious about the openmoko development (hence my reading/subscribing to this list), and am biding my time before I get a new phone to replace my ~5yr old SE T68i. Peter On Jan 25, 2008 9:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Nikolaus (hns) (Hand is raised.) Guilty as charged. As I have mentioned before, the iPhone is a Golden Form Factor device. I think of it more as a Quarter Tablet Personal Computer than as a phone these days. Then why do I stay subscribed to the OpenMoko list you ask? I dream. I dream of the day that some company will realise that I (and about 6 billion other guys) are willing to pay many hundreds of dollars for a device that: ...duplicates the iPhone's form factor, screen resolution, control layout and other basic features and functionality. ...duplicates or betters the iPhone's battery performance. ...has an integrated non-slip silicone jacketed case. ...has and integrated GPS receiver, or comes with a Bluetooth remote one. ...supports an IR or Bluetooth portable keyboard. ...has an integrated Picture Frame type angle stand that will let you sit the device on a flat surface in portrait or landscape mode securely. ...runs open software like OpenMoko. Sorry, but FreeRunner does not come close to hitting this mark. Hopefully, FIC has secretly squirreled dozens of engineers away in bomb proof caverns deep inside the mighty Swiss alps who are feverishly slaving away on thier iPhone killer at this very moment and are mere minutes away from stunning the whole world with their amazing achievement. Or maybe not. So I continue to dream my dreamy little dreams. Alan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
Porting all the Linux stuff to OSX should be pretty easy afterall , OSX is just a Unix clone too Peter Lyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/01/08 7:00 PM I'm in a very similar situation as described below. Although I think the situation just got a lot more complicated with Nokia's acquisition of Trolltech (might see a greater push for Qtopia on a lot more devices). Not to mention over here in Australia the iPhone still has yet to be launched. I'm very curious about the openmoko development (hence my reading/subscribing to this list), and am biding my time before I get a new phone to replace my ~5yr old SE T68i. Peter On Jan 25, 2008 9:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Nikolaus (hns) (Hand is raised.) Guilty as charged. As I have mentioned before, the iPhone is a Golden Form Factor device. I think of it more as a Quarter Tablet Personal Computer than as a phone these days. Then why do I stay subscribed to the OpenMoko list you ask? I dream. I dream of the day that some company will realise that I (and about 6 billion other guys) are willing to pay many hundreds of dollars for a device that: ...duplicates the iPhone's form factor, screen resolution, control layout and other basic features and functionality. ...duplicates or betters the iPhone's battery performance. ...has an integrated non-slip silicone jacketed case. ...has and integrated GPS receiver, or comes with a Bluetooth remote one. ...supports an IR or Bluetooth portable keyboard. ...has an integrated Picture Frame type angle stand that will let you sit the device on a flat surface in portrait or landscape mode securely. ...runs open software like OpenMoko. Sorry, but FreeRunner does not come close to hitting this mark. Hopefully, FIC has secretly squirreled dozens of engineers away in bomb proof caverns deep inside the mighty Swiss alps who are feverishly slaving away on thier iPhone killer at this very moment and are mere minutes away from stunning the whole world with their amazing achievement. Or maybe not. So I continue to dream my dreamy little dreams. Alan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
There were much more encouraging responses like yours so far than I had expected! Thank you very much. What I read from the responses: * there are more amongst us waiting for the GTA02 than GTA01 owners and developers * the main things we want to have - seamless communication (USB, Bluetooth, WLAN) - no need to run Linux in a VM in parallel (for developers this might be ok) - syncing address book should work Did I miss anything? -- hns BTW: QuantumSTEP for the Neo is making fast progress. Make sure to visit us at FOSDEM 2008 at the GNUstep booth to see it in operation. Am 25.01.2008 um 15:13 schrieb Stroller: On 25 Jan 2008, at 07:53, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I recently looked into the change history of the dedicated MacOS X page in the wiki and I have got the impression that I am the only one still doing something and improving the interworking between the Mac and OpenMoko: ... Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Do keep up the good work. I can't say that I'll be developing for OpenMoko, but you have one tester for sure here, when GTA02 arrives. I use OS X on my desktop laptop, and am hoping that syncronisation of contacts diary events will work with my new phone. I had a Windows Mobile phone last and a Sony-Ericsson P990i now - experience (or lack thereof!!) with syncing these to a Mac have made me hope that open source can fulfil my needs better. Stroller. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
On Jan 25, 2008 8:53 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently looked into the change history of the dedicated MacOS X page in the wiki and I have got the impression that I am the only one still doing something and improving the interworking between the Mac and OpenMoko: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=MacOS_Xaction=history Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? I'm still waiting for the Neo, and would love to be able to develop for OpenMoko on my Mac. If there's anything I can do to help (like: test installation of packages, or software, trying small examples), let me know! You can contact me off-list of you want to. Christ van Willegen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
Hi Nikolaus. I'm working on OS X and am still waiting on a phone I can buy and use. For some reason, I didn't order a GTA01 at the time and then came back from a US trip where I've uses SIP a lot in hotels/motels and other places which led me to insist on Wifi-support on the phone (free calls from many places to home!). If I could buy a iPhone (maybe for a bit more than the tag on a FreeRunner) and the promised SDK would allow native code, I'll jump on the iPhone train. Otherwise, and especially before the iPhone came around, I really love the OpenMoko-effort and will order a GTA02 the day someone can confirm that the basic phone can work with GSM for about a week in standby (only GSM booked in, no ui, no x, no gfx...). Other than that I'm supposed to finish my PhD. :) So, I'm bit frustated waiting for a viable phone (iPhones are locked, FreeRunner is not here yet). Oh, the iPod touch is the coolest pocket web brower I've seen, but then, I still need a phone.. Don't take me wrong, good luck with everyhing here, Matthias Ringwald ETH Zurich On 25.01.2008, at 08:53, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Hi, I recently looked into the change history of the dedicated MacOS X page in the wiki and I have got the impression that I am the only one still doing something and improving the interworking between the Mac and OpenMoko: ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? i'm working fulltime on a macbook pro, but for all my openmoko work i just use ubuntustudio on parallels .. there's no real need, from my point of view, to have native apps when VM just solves the problem entirely and gives adequate performance to boot. its like carrying around a mac and a linux box in the same machine .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Nikolaus (hns) (Hand is raised.) Guilty as charged. As I have mentioned before, the iPhone is a Golden Form Factor device. I think of it more as a Quarter Tablet Personal Computer than as a phone these days. Then why do I stay subscribed to the OpenMoko list you ask? I dream. I dream of the day that some company will realise that I (and about 6 billion other guys) are willing to pay many hundreds of dollars for a device that: ...duplicates the iPhone's form factor, screen resolution, control layout and other basic features and functionality. ...duplicates or betters the iPhone's battery performance. ...has an integrated non-slip silicone jacketed case. ...has and integrated GPS receiver, or comes with a Bluetooth remote one. ...supports an IR or Bluetooth portable keyboard. ...has an integrated Picture Frame type angle stand that will let you sit the device on a flat surface in portrait or landscape mode securely. ...runs open software like OpenMoko. Sorry, but FreeRunner does not come close to hitting this mark. Hopefully, FIC has secretly squirreled dozens of engineers away in bomb proof caverns deep inside the mighty Swiss alps who are feverishly slaving away on thier iPhone killer at this very moment and are mere minutes away from stunning the whole world with their amazing achievement. Or maybe not. So I continue to dream my dreamy little dreams. Alan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
I will also be using my device with OSX, I admit that I have not had any free time since my job is keeping very busy at the moment. I have a GTA01 with the debug board. I will gladly beta/alpha test anything you feel like writing. On Jan 25, 2008 2:19 PM, Brandon Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In response to your company, it is coming. Besides, why not used the iPhone dev kit (hacked one) it probably exposes more than the iPhone kit will. Don't even start to think that the sound API will be released to you. Brandon Kruse (bkruse) On Jan 25, 2008, at 4:31 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Nikolaus (hns) (Hand is raised.) Guilty as charged. As I have mentioned before, the iPhone is a Golden Form Factor device. I think of it more as a Quarter Tablet Personal Computer than as a phone these days. Then why do I stay subscribed to the OpenMoko list you ask? I dream. I dream of the day that some company will realise that I (and about 6 billion other guys) are willing to pay many hundreds of dollars for a device that: ...duplicates the iPhone's form factor, screen resolution, control layout and other basic features and functionality. ...duplicates or betters the iPhone's battery performance. ...has an integrated non-slip silicone jacketed case. ...has and integrated GPS receiver, or comes with a Bluetooth remote one. ...supports an IR or Bluetooth portable keyboard. ...has an integrated Picture Frame type angle stand that will let you sit the device on a flat surface in portrait or landscape mode securely. ...runs open software like OpenMoko. Sorry, but FreeRunner does not come close to hitting this mark. Hopefully, FIC has secretly squirreled dozens of engineers away in bomb proof caverns deep inside the mighty Swiss alps who are feverishly slaving away on thier iPhone killer at this very moment and are mere minutes away from stunning the whole world with their amazing achievement. Or maybe not. So I continue to dream my dreamy little dreams. Alan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
OK, I see that FreeRunner doesn't have the case, or the stand, and currently doesn't have the software. How else is FreeRunner not close to hitting the mark? There is a TON of work to be done on the software side, and I'm not entirely convinced openmoko is the answer, but what's wrong with the device? The lack of a case a stand seems like it's pretty trivially correctable... Thanks, Bobby aka wurp -- Forwarded message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 02:31:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko? Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Nikolaus (hns) (Hand is raised.) Guilty as charged. As I have mentioned before, the iPhone is a Golden Form Factor device. I think of it more as a Quarter Tablet Personal Computer than as a phone these days. Then why do I stay subscribed to the OpenMoko list you ask? I dream. I dream of the day that some company will realise that I (and about 6 billion other guys) are willing to pay many hundreds of dollars for a device that: ...duplicates the iPhone's form factor, screen resolution, control layout and other basic features and functionality. ...duplicates or betters the iPhone's battery performance. ...has an integrated non-slip silicone jacketed case. ...has and integrated GPS receiver, or comes with a Bluetooth remote one. ...supports an IR or Bluetooth portable keyboard. ...has an integrated Picture Frame type angle stand that will let you sit the device on a flat surface in portrait or landscape mode securely. ...runs open software like OpenMoko. Sorry, but FreeRunner does not come close to hitting this mark. Hopefully, FIC has secretly squirreled dozens of engineers away in bomb proof caverns deep inside the mighty Swiss alps who are feverishly slaving away on thier iPhone killer at this very moment and are mere minutes away from stunning the whole world with their amazing achievement. Or maybe not. So I continue to dream my dreamy little dreams. Alan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
In response to your company, it is coming. Besides, why not used the iPhone dev kit (hacked one) it probably exposes more than the iPhone kit will. Don't even start to think that the sound API will be released to you. Brandon Kruse (bkruse) On Jan 25, 2008, at 4:31 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Nikolaus (hns) (Hand is raised.) Guilty as charged. As I have mentioned before, the iPhone is a Golden Form Factor device. I think of it more as a Quarter Tablet Personal Computer than as a phone these days. Then why do I stay subscribed to the OpenMoko list you ask? I dream. I dream of the day that some company will realise that I (and about 6 billion other guys) are willing to pay many hundreds of dollars for a device that: ...duplicates the iPhone's form factor, screen resolution, control layout and other basic features and functionality. ...duplicates or betters the iPhone's battery performance. ...has an integrated non-slip silicone jacketed case. ...has and integrated GPS receiver, or comes with a Bluetooth remote one. ...supports an IR or Bluetooth portable keyboard. ...has an integrated Picture Frame type angle stand that will let you sit the device on a flat surface in portrait or landscape mode securely. ...runs open software like OpenMoko. Sorry, but FreeRunner does not come close to hitting this mark. Hopefully, FIC has secretly squirreled dozens of engineers away in bomb proof caverns deep inside the mighty Swiss alps who are feverishly slaving away on thier iPhone killer at this very moment and are mere minutes away from stunning the whole world with their amazing achievement. Or maybe not. So I continue to dream my dreamy little dreams. Alan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
I currently don't have a Neo, nor do I have an iPhone. I currently won't get the latter, due to the current lack of an SDK and being forced into a wireless contract that doesn't meet my needs. I do occasionally work in OS X, but am usually on a Ubuntu desktop. At the time being my plate is (over) full. After I get a FreeRunner wrap up a couple other things I'm working on, I'll look into using it with the Mac. Still, I plan on doing most/all my development in Linux. In regards to the shape or form factor that some people mentioned, if you don't like it then change it. Design a new case and have some made. Maybe others will like it and it will gain popularity. The same goes for software. If you don't like something spend a few minutes a week trying to fix it or providing /constructive/ feedback and test results. Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Hi, I recently looked into the change history of the dedicated MacOS X page in the wiki and I have got the impression that I am the only one still doing something and improving the interworking between the Mac and OpenMoko: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=MacOS_Xaction=history Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Nikolaus (hns) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
On 25 Jan 2008, at 07:53, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I recently looked into the change history of the dedicated MacOS X page in the wiki and I have got the impression that I am the only one still doing something and improving the interworking between the Mac and OpenMoko: ... Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Do keep up the good work. I can't say that I'll be developing for OpenMoko, but you have one tester for sure here, when GTA02 arrives. I use OS X on my desktop laptop, and am hoping that syncronisation of contacts diary events will work with my new phone. I had a Windows Mobile phone last and a Sony-Ericsson P990i now - experience (or lack thereof!!) with syncing these to a Mac have made me hope that open source can fulfil my needs better. Stroller. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
On Jan 25, 2008 12:02 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm working fulltime on a macbook pro, but for all my openmoko work i just use ubuntustudio on parallels .. there's no real need, from my point of view, to have native apps when VM just solves the problem entirely and gives adequate performance to boot. its like carrying around a mac and a linux box in the same machine .. I've tried using Virtual PC to install Ubuntu to, and then set up the OpenMoko environment. Unfortunately, I don't have a working configuration yet! I've tried IRC-ing to the #OE channel (it seems to be something OE related...), but I haven't found an answer yet. IIRC I can get the mokomakefile to update itself, but bitbake gives an error: env: bad interpreter. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Any OS X developers out there working with OpenMoko?
Hi, I recently looked into the change history of the dedicated MacOS X page in the wiki and I have got the impression that I am the only one still doing something and improving the interworking between the Mac and OpenMoko: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=MacOS_Xaction=history Is my impression wrong or have you all already bought an iPodTouch or iPhone and waits for the SDK? Please raise your hands... Nikolaus (hns) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
