Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Hi all, To those of you who didn't see summary flying by on Linuxtoday.com, there is recent article published about the Openmoko: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/mowi/article.php/3931296/What-Happened-to-Real-Open-Source-Phones.htm I'm sure that after reading the article, you'll have the urge to react. At least I know I did ;-) Regards, Niels. -- Microsoft gives you windows, Linux gives you the whole house. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Le 21/04/2011 12:10, Niels Heyvaert a écrit : Hi all, To those of you who didn't see summary flying by on Linuxtoday.com, there is recent article published about the Openmoko: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/mowi/article.php/3931296/What-Happened-to-Real-Open-Source-Phones.htm I'm sure that after reading the article, you'll have the urge to react. At least I know I did ;-) Regards, Niels. -- Microsoft gives you windows, Linux gives you the whole house. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Thanks for this very interesting link ! I have also posted a comment. Regards, Thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Hello! After reading the article, I think it is just a waste of time. The article does not even deserve to react on it. By commenting you just give importance to it and that's what the post seek. In my opinion it is just a confusing and lousy article with no relevant information to make a bit of noise in order to attract the attention and to increase the hit count of the domain. Regards, Balint On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:10:37 + Niels Heyvaert wrote: > > Hi all, > > To those of you who didn't see summary flying by on Linuxtoday.com, > there is recent article published about the Openmoko: > http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/mowi/article.php/3931296/What-Happened-to-Real-Open-Source-Phones.htm > > I'm sure that after reading the article, you'll have the urge to > react. > At least I know I did ;-) > > Regards, > > Niels. > > -- > Microsoft gives you windows, Linux gives you the whole house. > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
The article pretty well sums up my experience with the GTA02, although I certainly have no regrets about buying one. All things considered, the idea of the machine was great, but it is really unfortunate that the performance, stability and general quality of the applications was somewhat below expectations. In particular, the glamo chip was a disaster for any advanced use of the screen resolution available, and the battery life issues made it not much use unless plugged into a power source. I hope that the GTA04, when it gets fully shaken down, will address at least those 2 issues. For the applications I would like to implement, more memory, performance that at least resembles a 500 Mhz laptop, although most phones now are dual core 1 Ghz chips, and excellent WIFI/GSM functionality would be critical. In terms of additional features, an IRDA facility, and geo-environment sensors (temp, pressure) and compass would be nice. Whatever the outcome of the GTA04 project, I support the effort and even if its another hobbyist toy, I will likely find it interesting. While I don't use the GTA02 as a regular phone, its in regular use for software development and for GPS applications. For some reason, I have yet to get stable and reliable information out of the accelerometers, but even they are useful for some purposes. Unfortunately, I feel the struggle for a Linux phone is pretty much submerged by the Android phenomenon, which is in my opinion, too bad. Phone hardware that ran linux out of the box would be wonderful. Niels Heyvaert wrote: Hi all, To those of you who didn't see summary flying by on Linuxtoday.com, there is recent article published about the Openmoko: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/mowi/article.php/3931296/What-Happened-to-Real-Open-Source-Phones.htm I'm sure that after reading the article, you'll have the urge to react. At least I know I did ;-) Regards, Niels. -- Microsoft gives you windows, Linux gives you the whole house. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Iain B. Findleton 514-457-0744 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Balint, >I think it is just a waste of time. Actually, I disagree. What the article's author is saying is what a lot of people outside the project have said, and with the GTA04 on the threshold of moving forward, I think it is time to start putting down the naysayers again. >From my viewpoint there was never a clear agreement (or even a clear statement) as to what the Openmoko Project's real goal was. I think the first person to comment on the article, Jason, echoed what I heard a lot of people say on the mailing lists over the years: o I bought a phone (in his case a Neo 1973) o It was never even functional as a phone o I am stuck with it (or perhaps they sold it) The FreeRunner suffered a better fate overall, but still fell short of various people's expectations. Obviously Jason never bought into the concept of the phone as a developer's tool...he actually wanted to make calls with it. If the goal of the project was to create a platform for people to investigate developing code for a mobile in a free and open way, then you could make the argument that Openmoko was fairly successful. If the goal was to create a complete Open Source software stack that would successfully compete with the iPhone to the "iConsumer", I think that the project was not successful. Using Android, which was mostly developed in a closed manner, does not really count. If the goal was to create a commercially successful "Open Phone" platform or to show that such a phone could be a success, I think it was "less than successful"but not necessarily because of its "Openness". I meant what I said in my response to the article. I had a manufacturing company all set to license the necessary designs from Openmoko, to buy the spare inventory and to make the business relationships to buy new components. They had the facilities and expertise to make the phone, but they needed to make a certain volume just to make back their tooling costs. We had many customers standing by to purchase the phones, and these customers were not "price sensitive"only there were no new components to buy, so the whole business plan fell apart. We could not make the volume necessary to break even from tooling. I hope that the GTA04 will be positioned so that every purchaser will know why they are buying it, and what they can expect from it. Then perhaps we will have fewer disappointed customers. Perhaps this is too much to ask, but it could be a goal. md ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
>Unfortunately, I feel the struggle for a Linux phone is pretty much >submerged by the Android phenomenon, which is in my opinion, too bad. >Phone hardware that ran linux out of the box would be wonderful. It depends on what you mean by "Linux". Personally I would like the GTA04 to run a Linux kernel with two personalities, one of them being Debian and the other Android. Just my preferences. md ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
El día Thursday, April 21, 2011 a las 10:10:37AM +, Niels Heyvaert escribió: > > Hi all, > > To those of you who didn't see summary flying by on Linuxtoday.com, there is > recent article published about the Openmoko: > > http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/mowi/article.php/3931296/What-Happened-to-Real-Open-Source-Phones.htm > > I'm sure that after reading the article, you'll have the urge to react. > > At least I know I did ;-) All this crying is more or less useless and I will not comment it there. I'm still using my FR as my daily and only cellphone (it still runs Om2008.9) and I'm happy with it, even if the battery is poor and lasts only 6-8 hours. But I don't care because I nearly always have my laptop or some external batteries in a small gadget with AA cells to charge it. Hopefully my FR hardware lasts until some other real Linux or even FreeBSD cellphone shows up again. matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.unixarea.de/ ¡Ya basta! ¡Imperialistas occidentales, quitad las manos de Libia! There's an end of it! Imperialists occidentals, hands off Libya! Schluss jetzt endlich! Imperialisten des Westens, Haende weg von Libyen! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Greetings, > I'm still using my FR as my daily and only cellphone (it still runs > Om2008.9) and I'm happy with it, [...]. I am glad to see someone saying that :-) I am also using my freerunner (with QtMoko) as my only phone and I am also very happy with it. Of course, I also find a few "glitches" now-and-then in the software/hardware; though things are continually improving and more options are continually being added. > Hopefully my FR hardware lasts until some other real Linux or even > FreeBSD cellphone shows up again. I am hoping the GTA04 will turn into exactly that, and even so, the freerunner feels pretty "real" to me ;-) A big thumbs up from me to the people who have worked on making that a realisation, and to the people who have sponsored them! I am looking forward to placing my order Best, Toby -- Toby D. Young Assistant Professor Philosophy & Physics Polish Academy of Sciences www: http://www.ippt.gov.pl/~tyoung skype: stenografia ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
On Friday 22 April 2011 09:56:07 Matthias Apitz wrote: > I'm still using my FR as my daily and only cellphone (it still runs > Om2008.9) and I'm happy with it, even if the battery is poor and lasts > only 6-8 hours. But I don't care because I nearly always have my laptop > or some external batteries in a small gadget with AA cells to charge it. I have been measuring battery life with 2.6.37 kernel under QtMoko and after 5 days without recharging the battery was low but it still worked. So it looks like freerunner is maybe one of the best smarphones as for battery life, Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
I have been measuring battery life with 2.6.37 kernel under QtMoko and after 5 days without recharging the battery was low but it still worked. So it looks like freerunner is maybe one of the best smarphones as for battery life, Regards Radek WOW When will it be available for us? Giacomo -- ## giacomo 'giotti' mariani gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-key 0x99bfa859 O< ASCII ribbon campaign: stop HTML mail www.asciiribbon.org ## ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Radek, On 2011-04-22 18:56, Radek Polak wrote: On Friday 22 April 2011 09:56:07 Matthias Apitz wrote: I'm still using my FR as my daily and only cellphone (it still runs Om2008.9) and I'm happy with it, even if the battery is poor and lasts only 6-8 hours. But I don't care because I nearly always have my laptop or some external batteries in a small gadget with AA cells to charge it. I have been measuring battery life with 2.6.37 kernel under QtMoko and after 5 days without recharging the battery was low but it still worked. So it looks like freerunner is maybe one of the best smarphones as for battery life, On my original battery and v34 QtMoko I was getting ~2hrs with constant use (playing MP3s while walking on a treadmill) so I bought two new BL-6C batteries (~$5 each - too cheap?). When these batteries arrived, the first battery had no charge at all and the second had a little. I have tested them both in standby mode: Test#1 #2 1 11 2 34 3 14 4 18 5 13 6 52 Mean12.734.7 - aren't they are supposed to last for 70 hours? Regards, Phil. -- Philip Rhoades GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Hi I have been measuring battery life with 2.6.37 kernel under QtMoko and after 5 days without recharging the battery was low but it still worked. So it looks like freerunner is maybe one of the best smarphones as for battery life, Just for the record, I find that remarkable. I'm running QtMoko out of the box and batteries last ~24hrs if I don't touch it. I only use it for sms because the buzz is back. I read the article, and I agree with the author I'm afraid. Nevertheless, it's good OpenMoko was born, and I'm glad to have seen it happen, partly. [afk to play with cyanogenmod on my other phone] *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
On Friday 22 April 2011 11:04:29 giacomo 'giotti' mariani wrote: > > I have been measuring battery life with 2.6.37 kernel under QtMoko and > > after 5 days without recharging the battery was low but it still worked. > > So it looks like freerunner is maybe one of the best smarphones as for > > battery life, > > > > Regards > > > > Radek > > WOW > When will it be available for us? You can try package from: https://sourceforge.net/projects/qtmoko/files/Experimental/ Maybe you'll get kernel crash when using accelerometers. It would be nice if you could try and report how it works. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Radek, On 2011-04-23 00:40, Radek Polak wrote: On Friday 22 April 2011 11:04:29 giacomo 'giotti' mariani wrote: I have been measuring battery life with 2.6.37 kernel under QtMoko and after 5 days without recharging the battery was low but it still worked. So it looks like freerunner is maybe one of the best smarphones as for battery life, Regards Radek WOW When will it be available for us? You can try package from: https://sourceforge.net/projects/qtmoko/files/Experimental/ Since: linux-image-2.6.37-qtmoko-gta02_v34-1_armel.deb is v34, should: uImage.bin-2.6.37-qtmoko be installed along with: qi-v34.udfu and: qtmoko-debian-v34.ubi ? (I currently have the v35 stuff installed). Thanks, Phil. -- Philip Rhoades GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Since: linux-image-2.6.37-qtmoko-gta02_v34-1_armel.deb is v34, should: uImage.bin-2.6.37-qtmoko be installed along with: qi-v34.udfu and: qtmoko-debian-v34.ubi ? (I currently have the v35 stuff installed). You can use it also with v35. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
radek On 2011-04-23 15:44, radek polak wrote: Since: linux-image-2.6.37-qtmoko-gta02_v34-1_armel.deb is v34, should: uImage.bin-2.6.37-qtmoko be installed along with: qi-v34.udfu and: qtmoko-debian-v34.ubi ? (I currently have the v35 stuff installed). You can use it also with v35. I tried it but then I can't get a USB connection to 192.168.0.202 . . which I need for x11vnc etc . . Thanks, Phil. -- Philip Rhoades GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
> I tried it but then I can't get a USB connection to 192.168.0.202 . . > which I need for x11vnc etc . . > I'm finding that is problematical with the stable v35 kernel also; the only way I can make the desktop recognize a usb0 is by rebooting it with the phone already connected. That is not reliable either, sometimes I have to reboot the desktop several times. Since I switched from ubuntu lucid to squeeze (on the desktop) around the same time as going from v26 to v34/35 on the phone, I'm not 100% on which one has the problem :) -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
Here's an illuminating article about a (well known) alternative to an open phone. :) http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news22-04-11.php#rotten -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Article: What happened to real open source phones?
dmatthews, On 2011-04-23 17:12, dmatthews.org wrote: I tried it but then I can't get a USB connection to 192.168.0.202 . . which I need for x11vnc etc . . I'm finding that is problematical with the stable v35 kernel also; the only way I can make the desktop recognize a usb0 is by rebooting it with the phone already connected. That definitely does not work for me on uImage.bin-2.6.37-qtmoko - I can watch /var/log/messages on my desktop and there is no sign of detecting the USB connection . . That is not reliable either, sometimes I have to reboot the desktop several times. Since I switched from ubuntu lucid to squeeze (on the desktop) around the same time as going from v26 to v34/35 on the phone, I'm not 100% on which one has the problem :) v35 (and v34) is quite reliable for me except for a minor glitch - immediately after rebooting, I can make a ssh connection but then it almost always hangs after a few seconds. If I reconnect again, it then lasts indefinitely (unless the FR goes into standby mode - which it does sometimes when it shouldn't - ie all the power settings are "off" for "plugged in". Regards, Phil. -- Philip Rhoades GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
