Re: R: Camera and MMS
I went to Honeywell in Minnesota once for a meeting. At the security booth inside the building there were two big signs . The first said No Guns the second said No Cameras. I had two thoughts. The first was I'm glad I left my guncamera at home. The second was what goes on here on a Saturday night? After mentioning this in the meeting I was relayed some stories that made me believe the cold gets to people... Camera Phones are becoming more and more of an issue. I have not seen one take a good picture yet either. Marty Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:19:26 +0100 From: Andreas Kaeser [EMAIL PROTECTED] t3st3r wrote: Andreas Kaeser wrote: ... Well, as much as I would like a camera in my all-in-one gadget, it would be prohibitive for my every day use: in my working environment anything capable of picture recording is strictly disallowed. So I wouldn't be able to use Neo1973 :-( So what? Jailed people are often disallowed to use mobile phones at all. Should mobile phones manufacturers to give up and stop producing mobile phones at all then? Of course not. But you missed my point. I'm looking for a way to use the NEO It's a car manufacturer's development plant. [off] I'm amazed how easily people are giving up their legal rights in favor of semi-illegal corporate policies (or similar stuff) which are trashing human rights to the hell. As for me, I'll never work in such jail-like environment. Do you want to have open and free gadget ... but still have jail-like job?Amazing!Freedom is not just a word - it's way of life. Think about it. Twice. [/off] Yes, you are right. I'm horrified, how many people give away real human rights like free speech or privacy for a few Euros or for pseudo security. However, in this very situation, I don't consider it my legal rights to take photos of not-yet-released cars and their development details. I guess people working under such conditions are less than 10% of total population, so maybe we won't be considered too much. A pluggable camera would definitely help! As for me, I will never use pluggable camera.Its a separate thing which can be lost, forgotten and broken easily (the plug itself is a weak place).And it reduces device usability to the hell.Early mobiles attempted to use pluggable cameras but it looks like this attempt has miserably failed.It has been incredible unpopular idea and died without success.However I have nothing against the following: two models, one with camera and one without it. However I have no idea how hard and costly this to implement (usually, developing 2 devices costs more but probably dropping features is relatively easy - just do not solder some parts on same PCB and use a bit altered case). Of course high volume production of an all-in-one gadget often will be cheaper than the production of 50 different models with some different combination of parts missing in each of them. And yes, plugs usually are less reliable than solid soldering joints. I'm happy to have seen more and maybe better ideas to deal with this situation. P.S. Of course you can safely ignore my dumb mumblings but before doing so, consider that I closely dealt with mobile phones internals since 2000 and usability is my primary job. Oh great. Then you know _a lot_ more about mobiles than me. And in case you should change your mind about some No Camera Allowed-situations, you might come up with even far better ideas to deal with said situations than we have already seen :-) 2ALL: sorry for semi-flaming message. At least _I_ don't mind. Far from it! I'm happy to enlarge my own view by getting introduced to more facts and to more points of personal view. Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
t3st3r wrote: Andreas Kaeser wrote: ... Well, as much as I would like a camera in my all-in-one gadget, it would be prohibitive for my every day use: in my working environment anything capable of picture recording is strictly disallowed. So I wouldn't be able to use Neo1973 :-( So what? Jailed people are often disallowed to use mobile phones at all. Should mobile phones manufacturers to give up and stop producing mobile phones at all then? Of course not. But you missed my point. I'm looking for a way to use the NEO It's a car manufacturer's development plant. [off] I'm amazed how easily people are giving up their legal rights in favor of semi-illegal corporate policies (or similar stuff) which are trashing human rights to the hell. As for me, I'll never work in such jail-like environment. Do you want to have open and free gadget ... but still have jail-like job?Amazing!Freedom is not just a word - it's way of life. Think about it. Twice. [/off] Yes, you are right. I'm horrified, how many people give away real human rights like free speech or privacy for a few Euros or for pseudo security. However, in this very situation, I don't consider it my legal rights to take photos of not-yet-released cars and their development details. I guess people working under such conditions are less than 10% of total population, so maybe we won't be considered too much. A pluggable camera would definitely help! As for me, I will never use pluggable camera.Its a separate thing which can be lost, forgotten and broken easily (the plug itself is a weak place).And it reduces device usability to the hell.Early mobiles attempted to use pluggable cameras but it looks like this attempt has miserably failed.It has been incredible unpopular idea and died without success.However I have nothing against the following: two models, one with camera and one without it. However I have no idea how hard and costly this to implement (usually, developing 2 devices costs more but probably dropping features is relatively easy - just do not solder some parts on same PCB and use a bit altered case). Of course high volume production of an all-in-one gadget often will be cheaper than the production of 50 different models with some different combination of parts missing in each of them. And yes, plugs usually are less reliable than solid soldering joints. I'm happy to have seen more and maybe better ideas to deal with this situation. P.S. Of course you can safely ignore my dumb mumblings but before doing so, consider that I closely dealt with mobile phones internals since 2000 and usability is my primary job. Oh great. Then you know _a lot_ more about mobiles than me. And in case you should change your mind about some No Camera Allowed-situations, you might come up with even far better ideas to deal with said situations than we have already seen :-) 2ALL: sorry for semi-flaming message. At least _I_ don't mind. Far from it! I'm happy to enlarge my own view by getting introduced to more facts and to more points of personal view. Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
On 2/16/07, Andreas Kaeser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course not. But you missed my point. I'm looking for a way to use the NEO It's a car manufacturer's development plant. You perhaps have missed the point so far: there IS NO CAMERA as of yet.. And, if you have been reading other forum posts, there are -5- more devices coming on the horizon with the OpenMoko core operating environment, which may or may not have cameras. I think your situation has been carefully planned for: the people making these phones are under the EXACT same conditions with regards to non-disclosure of their multi-touch screen, and the TI GSM module. Perhaps not as much as photos of the equipment, but believe me, they know how restrictive rules can be when intellectual property / trade secrets are involved. Just to set the record straight, as it seems there is quite a lot of misinformation and/or ignorance about the details. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
Mike Hodson wrote: On 2/16/07, Andreas Kaeser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course not. But you missed my point. I'm looking for a way to use the NEO It's a car manufacturer's development plant. You perhaps have missed the point so far: there IS NO CAMERA as of yet.. And, if you have been reading other forum posts, there are -5- more devices coming on the horizon with the OpenMoko core operating environment, which may or may not have cameras. Sorry - my fault. I edited my post just before sending it - and messed it up. I broke that sentence even grammatically. Of course NEO-1973 won't pose that problem, and I'm happy about that. Initially I replied to Michele Manzato's post, who asked for camera in next generation NEO(s): Voting for integrated Camera as well for future releases of the Neo. Not using it very much, but it can be handy every now and then. And because nobody had pointed out before, that a camera could possibly become a problem, I did that. My second post was confusing, sorry. I think your situation has been carefully planned for: Glad to hear about that! ... Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
Andreas Kaeser wrote: Michele Manzato wrote: Voting for integrated Camera as well ... Well, as much as I would like a camera in my all-in-one gadget, it would be prohibitive for my every day use: in my working environment anything capable of picture recording is strictly disallowed. So I wouldn't be able to use Neo1973 :-( So what? Jailed people are often disallowed to use mobile phones at all. Should mobile phones manufacturers to give up and stop producing mobile phones at all then? [off] I'm amazed how easily people are giving up their legal rights in favor of semi-illegal corporate policies (or similar stuff) which are trashing human rights to the hell. As for me, I'll never work in such jail-like environment. Do you want to have open and free gadget ... but still have jail-like job?Amazing!Freedom is not just a word - it's way of life. Think about it. Twice. [/off] I guess people working under such conditions are less than 10% of total population, so maybe we won't be considered too much. A pluggable camera would definitely help! As for me, I will never use pluggable camera.Its a separate thing which can be lost, forgotten and broken easily (the plug itself is a weak place).And it reduces device usability to the hell.Early mobiles attempted to use pluggable cameras but it looks like this attempt has miserably failed.It has been incredible unpopular idea and died without success.However I have nothing against the following: two models, one with camera and one without it. However I have no idea how hard and costly this to implement (usually, developing 2 devices costs more but probably dropping features is relatively easy - just do not solder some parts on same PCB and use a bit altered case). P.S. Of course you can safely ignore my dumb mumblings but before doing so, consider that I closely dealt with mobile phones internals since 2000 and usability is my primary job. 2ALL: sorry for semi-flaming message. Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
t3st3r wrote: Andreas Kaeser wrote: Michele Manzato wrote: Voting for integrated Camera as well ... Well, as much as I would like a camera in my all-in-one gadget, it would be prohibitive for my every day use: in my working environment anything capable of picture recording is strictly disallowed. So I wouldn't be able to use Neo1973 :-( So what? Jailed people are often disallowed to use mobile phones at all. Should mobile phones manufacturers to give up and stop producing mobile phones at all then? Ok... What might be a possible solution would be a user removable camera. Open back, remove battery, unscrew 3 tiny screws, unclick wire socket, remove camera from back. Also, this might hypothetically allow upgrades. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
t3st3r, Wed 2007-02-14 10:09 CET However I have nothing against the following: two models, one with camera and one without it. However I have no idea how hard and costly this to implement (usually, developing 2 devices costs more but probably dropping features is relatively easy - just do not solder some parts on same PCB and use a bit altered case). I just want to remind you of my suggestion: Camera is internal but neo has two backs, one with hole(s) for lens (and flash) and another one covering the camera parts. See point 5 in http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000335.html Best regards Stony ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: Camera and MMS
Voting for integrated Camera as well for future releases of the Neo. Not using it very much, but it can be handy every now and then. In time I expect that the OpenMoko platform API will grow to support a wider range of peripheral families than are available in the Neo at the moment (camera, wifi, IrDA, accelerometer, ...). I also expect that some API will list the device capabilities so that the sw can adapt to the actual device. MMS seems to be a problem. Apparently there is no MMS standard, or the standard itself is said to be horribly broken (see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/002787.html) or it is tweaked to peculiarities of the Mobile Network Operator in order to discourage migration between providers (MNOs fear open standards!). Someone is already talking about an OpenMoko integrated messaging application that abstracts on the specific media (e-mail, SMS, MMS) so, perhaps, sending/receiving MMS can just become a matter of implementing proper abstraction layers. Ciao Michele Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Joe Shmoe Inviato: martedì 13 febbraio 2007 0.35 A: community@lists.openmoko.org Oggetto: Camera and MMS I know this has been discussed before, but I am trying to see how much interest there is in a camera. I never thought I would use it, but lately, I've found that I am using the camera much more often to take simple pictures and videos and send multimedia messages to friends. This seems like a standard thing now for most phones...and I can say for sure that the younger generations definitely expect to be able to send/receive pictures/videos/voice_recordings using their phone. Are there plans for this to be in ver 2.0 hardware? Are others interested in this as well? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.36/681 - Release Date: 11/02/2007 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.36/681 - Release Date: 11/02/2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
On 2/13/07, Michele Manzato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Voting for integrated Camera as well for future releases of the Neo. Not using it very much, but it can be handy every now and then. It could be also used to develop automatic image recognition programs like a barcode reader or simple scanner to store business cards or documents. Or as another input sensor to control phone behaviour (i.e. if there is light, then it is not in a pocket and the person will probably not hear the vibration) The ability to create movies could be useful too. I know that there are programs that use a few seconsd input from webcams to create an image of an higher resolution. This is common practice between astronomers. Regards, Alessandro P.S. To Sean and all the other core developers: keep up the great work! You are doing VERY well and I think that what you have already achieved is really valuable! I think that the release of the source code will bring a good amount of workforce into the project! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Camera and MMS
On Tuesday 13 February 2007 10:26:32 Michele Manzato wrote: [...snip...] MMS seems to be a problem. Apparently there is no MMS standard, or the standard itself is said to be horribly broken (see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/002787.html) or it is tweaked to peculiarities of the Mobile Network Operator in order to discourage migration between providers (MNOs fear open standards!). Someone is already talking about an OpenMoko integrated messaging application that abstracts on the specific media (e-mail, SMS, MMS) so, perhaps, sending/receiving MMS can just become a matter of implementing proper abstraction layers. It's not so much the standard that is broken, but more so the terminals (phones) that are non- or semi-compliant. My experience with low-level MMS dates back to 2004, so it might be that modern phones are much better at presenting and supporting the full range of content types and SMIL elements, but back then you could only assume plain text + jpeg/gif image on the first 'slide' would be properly supported (that's what 99% of all MMS messages consist of anyway). Anyway, I can see some benefit in supporting basic MMS, since ppl like to send each other camshots through MMS. Supporting anything beyond this simple scenario would be overkill IMHO. grtz, Sander ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera and MMS
I agree. My work environment is as free and open as can be imagined, (sysadmin for a wireless broadband ISP - I work from home much of the time, most of the rest is at a tower or our NOC) but there are a variety of situations/locations (list growing) where camera phones are prohibited. Like many courtrooms. In a recent court hearing with my ex-wife, my camera phone had to be left at the security desk - with a post-it identifying me and dropped in a drawer. (meanwhile my ex breezed right through with hers, since it was 'concealed' in her handbag and the guards never examined it, just x-rayed the bag...) Given the choice of the 'same' device both with and without integrated camera, I'd unhesitatingly select the camera-less model - the few times that I've actually needed the integrated camera and didn't have my 'real' digital cam handy don't outweigh the irritation of being required to surrender my phone in secure (or paranoid) environments. I'd rather deal with not having a camera than be unconnected. j Andreas Kaeser wrote: Michele Manzato wrote: Voting for integrated Camera as well ... Well, as much as I would like a camera in my all-in-one gadget, it would be prohibitive for my every day use: in my working environment anything capable of picture recording is strictly disallowed. So I wouldn't be able to use Neo1973 :-( I guess people working under such conditions are less than 10% of total population, so maybe we won't be considered too much. A pluggable camera would definitely help! Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Camera and MMS
I know this has been discussed before, but I am trying to see how much interest there is in a camera. I never thought I would use it, but lately, I've found that I am using the camera much more often to take simple pictures and videos and send multimedia messages to friends. This seems like a standard thing now for most phones...and I can say for sure that the younger generations definitely expect to be able to send/receive pictures/videos/voice_recordings using their phone. Are there plans for this to be in ver 2.0 hardware? Are others interested in this as well? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
