Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Clinton >> It should be no problem. You just have to set up your routing tables >> correctly > > I think this should work automagically using pppd on both ends. still... you can't bridge the ppp adapter so it will have to be on its own subnet that you masquerade or route appropriately. -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Matt Mets <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > It should be no problem. You just have to set up your routing tables > correctly > so that the desktop knows to route its traffic to the device, and the device > knows to forward traffic to the cellular connection. It would be really handy > to have an application to configure all of this automagically. I think this should work automagically using pppd on both ends. -- Lindsay (Carlton): should i eat more post its ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Valid idea. Thanks for mentioning this.
Michael
David Samblas Martinez wrote:
If anyone is really interested in make this phone an AP to whatever
use and if a external power is an option, why not use a USB 1.1
wireless adapter able to do that even it only do it in b instead of g
if the usb 1.1 doen't allow the 54 Mb/s.it can be very probable that
can even use monitor mode with that dongle ;) even without external
power it can be doable for a shorts periods of time (well battery will
decide the timeframe)
--- El *jue, 29/5/08, Michael Shiloh /<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* escribió:
De: Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Asunto: Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Para: "List for Openmoko community discussion"
Fecha: jueves, 29 mayo, 2008 6:00
Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
> On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>> We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in
their
>> closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the
bulk
>> of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling
>> so I don't know how we get out of that bind.
>
> The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would
> technically be capable of is annoying,
Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were
able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the
driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good
start.
Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage
chip manufacturers to become more open.
> but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the
phone.
Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited
simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that
choice. We should always strive to make such choices available.
For any reasonable use
> case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability
> advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that
> allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon
> would be a battery drain anyway.
Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered
externally.
Michael
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Re: Neo as cellular modem?
David > If anyone is really interested in make this phone an AP to whatever use > and if a external power is an option, why not use a USB 1.1 wireless > adapter able to do that even it only do it in b instead of g if the usb > 1.1 doen't allow the 54 Mb/s I've not had much luck finding a solid linux driver for usb-based wifi adapter as an AP. RE speed... get it working first, then try to optimize. :) -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
If anyone is really interested in make this phone an AP to whatever use and if a external power is an option, why not use a USB 1.1 wireless adapter able to do that even it only do it in b instead of g if the usb 1.1 doen't allow the 54 Mb/s.it can be very probable that can even use monitor mode with that dongle ;) even without external power it can be doable for a shorts periods of time (well battery will decide the timeframe) --- El jue, 29/5/08, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: De: Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Asunto: Re: Neo as cellular modem? Para: "List for Openmoko community discussion" <community@lists.openmoko.org> Fecha: jueves, 29 mayo, 2008 6:00 Alexey Feldgendler wrote: > On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their >> closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk >> of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling >> so I don't know how we get out of that bind. > > The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would > technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. > but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use > case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability > advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that > allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon > would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael Not if you don't find a "3 word slogan" to sell this feature to your granny. SCNR, still got a "no Joerg!" trauma ;-) I believe there is a legal expression, something like "the grandfather clause". Has Steve now invented a similar marketing expression, the granny test? :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: > > Alexey Feldgendler wrote: > > On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their > >> closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk > >> of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling > >> so I don't know how we get out of that bind. > > > > The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would > > technically be capable of is annoying, > > Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were > able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the > driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good > start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage > chip manufacturers to become more open. > > > > but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. > > Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited > simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that > choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. > > > > > For any reasonable use > > case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability > > advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that > > allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon > > would be a battery drain anyway. > > Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered > externally. > > Michael Not if you don't find a "3 word slogan" to sell this feature to your granny. SCNR, still got a "no Joerg!" trauma ;-) /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Andy Green: > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > > |> Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WiFi chip in > |> fact _can_ do AP mode, but that mode is not allowed in the open source > |> driver. > | > | its a firmware. the wifi module has its own firmware and does the 802.11 > | handling there autonomous. > | that concept is called hardmac and was there earlier, e.g on the old > | 'orinoco silver' aka hermes pcmcia cards. > > or "fullmac". It just doesn't support Master mode. > > | that firmware can currently do client mode and ad-hoc. > | _in theory_ every wifi radio can do ap-mode, its just a question if you > | can send packets at a low-enough layer in the right format. > | this is controlled by firmware on the wifi module in this specific case. > > It's also a matter of receiving bulk packets efficiently and they don't > give us monitor mode either. > > We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their > closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk > of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling > so I don't know how we get out of that bind. > Well it's some time ago since I read about Soft|Hard|Free|FullMAC for prism chipsets. Dunno whether there was a way to run even fullmac cards with a softmac stack. A much more interesting point: where is the firmware to download to our Atheros-chip. (NO, no flamewar on free firmware|no firmware again!). Just a simple question: do we have any way to reflash the FW? /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
I think, for example, you can't do WPA in ad-hoc mode (only WPA2), so there's a reason. There are some others like this one. Ivo On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their >> closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk >> of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling >> so I don't know how we get out of that bind. >> > > The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would > technically be capable of is annoying, but I don't really see why we would > need to implement a true AP in the phone. For any reasonable use case I can > think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of > being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other > devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a > battery drain anyway. > > > -- > Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. -- Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: hmmm you really have a talent to ask interesting questions I'll take that as a compliment, although most people find it irritating :-) In this case it's actually my job :-) dunno... yet I understand. It's not a trivial question. I know that you won't claim something unless you have convinced yourself of the truth. I look forward to your analysis and consideration. /j ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: |> Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WiFi chip in |> fact _can_ do AP mode, but that mode is not allowed in the open source |> driver. | | its a firmware. the wifi module has its own firmware and does the 802.11 | handling there autonomous. | that concept is called hardmac and was there earlier, e.g on the old | 'orinoco silver' aka hermes pcmcia cards. or "fullmac". It just doesn't support Master mode. | that firmware can currently do client mode and ad-hoc. | _in theory_ every wifi radio can do ap-mode, its just a question if you | can send packets at a low-enough layer in the right format. | this is controlled by firmware on the wifi module in this specific case. It's also a matter of receiving bulk packets efficiently and they don't give us monitor mode either. We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+VD4ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMo4nACdFkBC+552ElF8o0cy2x+ffu0A mfQAn2+zAX7OTDveChC1r4ulzlBjV7kG =swEq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | YEP. but from this sniplet I don't understand whether it also will enter | LOGICAL hostmode like with a short to GND on ID-pin. | | That's the crux, do *both* No, nothing is watching ID level right now. You have to do it by hand until we implement something. But there are no mini USB OTG Host or Y cables shipped either :-/ echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode ; echo host > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode to get into host mode and this: echo 0 > /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode ; echo device | /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode to get back to device. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+UdkACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpCGQCgh9doLt06m5qfWYOXqeCEgz0o s0EAnRpoYeFOYwgfVY6ln8GL4roY+yAK =C8SV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Michael Shiloh wrote: > > > Alexey Feldgendler wrote: >> On Wed, 28 May 2008 02:15:16 +0200, Matt Mets >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> It might also be cool to have the Freerunner act as a wireless >>> router! Instant (slow) internet anywhere... >> >> In ad-hoc network mode only. AFAIK the WiFi chip used in the >> Freerunner doesn't support AP mode. > > > Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WiFi chip in > fact _can_ do AP mode, but that mode is not allowed in the open source > driver. its a firmware. the wifi module has its own firmware and does the 802.11 handling there autonomous. that concept is called hardmac and was there earlier, e.g on the old 'orinoco silver' aka hermes pcmcia cards. that firmware can currently do client mode and ad-hoc. _in theory_ every wifi radio can do ap-mode, its just a question if you can send packets at a low-enough layer in the right format. this is controlled by firmware on the wifi module in this specific case. => ap mode would need another firmware which we do not have and not know if it exists at all from atheros to be loaded into the wifi module. so there is nothing we could do on the driver front to change that. -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB power direction in host mode (was: Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?))
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 4:18 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: >> >> Andy Green wrote: >> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> > Hash: SHA1 >> > >> > Somebody in the thread at some point said: >> > | Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: >> > |> Joerg >> > |> >> > |> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > | wrote: >> > |>> Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: >> > |>>> i think it may still be up in the air >> > |>> Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just >> > have >> > | to >> > |>> find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. >> > |> is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll >> > |> update the section in >> > |> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is. >> > | >> > | No idea, it's a driver issue. On detection of 47k device is switching to >> > | fastcharge, which I think is actually working. Also it should activate >> > | LOGICAL hostmode for USB-controller same time (NOT asserting >> > EN_USBHOST!), >> > | which is needed for Y-Cable and doesn't hurt charger. I don't have the >> > | slightest idea whether this already is in kernel or not. >> > >> > It is deasserted if it sees you have a 1A charger in there, has been for >> > a while. >> >> A related question: I presume that it is the electrical signal >> EN_USBHOST which flips the switch which causes the USB port to source >> current in host mode, as opposed to sinking current in device mode. >> >> This is of course what is expected of a USB host, but it also prevents >> us from charging the Freerunner when the USB port is in host mode, if an >> appropriate power source is available. >> >> Question: >> Is it possible to charge the Neo Freerunner when using the USB port in >> host mode, by ascerting LOGICAL hostmode and by NOT asserting EN_USBHOST? > > that's exactly how Y-cable_V1 *) works (besides replacing the needed 15k? > pulldown-Rs also switched away by deasserting EN_USBHOST) > The combination LOGICAL hostmode + NO chargepump is exactly what the > kernel-driver should initiate when seeing 47k > > > *) There's the spec for V2 already, that's capable of working with USB2.0-OTG > (supported by GTA03, though USB2.0 will be there with GTA04 at the earliest) > See "Y-Cable revisited" somewhere on the lists - even more simple ;-) I sense a leak of details :) What is the GTA03 that you speak of... I know GTA04 is the next revision being discussed on the mailing lists, but I thought GTA03 was skipped? Cheers, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB power direction in host mode (was: Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?))
Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: > > Andy Green wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > > | Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: > > |> Joerg > > |> > > |> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > | wrote: > > |>> Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: > > |>>> i think it may still be up in the air > > |>> Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just > > have > > | to > > |>> find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. > > |> is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll > > |> update the section in > > |> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is. > > | > > | No idea, it's a driver issue. On detection of 47k device is switching to > > | fastcharge, which I think is actually working. Also it should activate > > | LOGICAL hostmode for USB-controller same time (NOT asserting > > EN_USBHOST!), > > | which is needed for Y-Cable and doesn't hurt charger. I don't have the > > | slightest idea whether this already is in kernel or not. > > > > It is deasserted if it sees you have a 1A charger in there, has been for > > a while. > > A related question: I presume that it is the electrical signal > EN_USBHOST which flips the switch which causes the USB port to source > current in host mode, as opposed to sinking current in device mode. > > This is of course what is expected of a USB host, but it also prevents > us from charging the Freerunner when the USB port is in host mode, if an > appropriate power source is available. > > Question: > Is it possible to charge the Neo Freerunner when using the USB port in > host mode, by ascerting LOGICAL hostmode and by NOT asserting EN_USBHOST? that's exactly how Y-cable_V1 *) works (besides replacing the needed 15k? pulldown-Rs also switched away by deasserting EN_USBHOST) The combination LOGICAL hostmode + NO chargepump is exactly what the kernel-driver should initiate when seeing 47k *) There's the spec for V2 already, that's capable of working with USB2.0-OTG (supported by GTA03, though USB2.0 will be there with GTA04 at the earliest) See "Y-Cable revisited" somewhere on the lists - even more simple ;-) /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
hmmm you really have a talent to ask interesting questions dunno... yet /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Andy Green: > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > | Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: > |> Joerg > |> > |> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | wrote: > |>> Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: > |>>> i think it may still be up in the air > |>> Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just > have > | to > |>> find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. > |> is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll > |> update the section in > |> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is. > | > | No idea, it's a driver issue. On detection of 47k device is switching to > | fastcharge, which I think is actually working. Also it should activate > | LOGICAL hostmode for USB-controller same time (NOT asserting > EN_USBHOST!), > | which is needed for Y-Cable and doesn't hurt charger. I don't have the > | slightest idea whether this already is in kernel or not. > > It is deasserted if it sees you have a 1A charger in there, has been for > a while. > > case CHARGER_TYPE_1A: > pcf50633_usb_curlim_set(pcf, 1000); > /* >* stop GPO / EN_HOSTUSB power driving out on the same >* USB power pins we have a 1A charger on right now! >*/ > dev_info(&pcf->client.dev, "Charger -> CHARGER_TYPE_1A\n"); > __reg_write(pcf, PCF50633_GPO - PCF50633_GPIO1 + >PCF50633_REG_GPIO1CFG, >__reg_read(pcf, PCF50633_GPO - PCF50633_GPIO1 + >PCF50633_REG_GPIO1CFG) & 0xf0); > break; > YEP. but from this sniplet I don't understand whether it also will enter LOGICAL hostmode like with a short to GND on ID-pin. That's the crux, do *both* /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB power direction in host mode (was: Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?))
Michael > Question: > Is it possible to charge the Neo Freerunner when using the USB port in host > mode, by ascerting LOGICAL hostmode and by NOT asserting EN_USBHOST? It's not just related, it goes to the core of the issue. :) Joerg assured us that we can do this. When the 47k resistor is present, EN_USBHOST will be disabled so power will be coming in from the outside on usb +5 to charge the battery and power the usb client, and neo's usb will be in host mode. -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
USB power direction in host mode (was: Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?))
Andy Green wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: |> Joerg |> |> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | wrote: |>> Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: |>>> i think it may still be up in the air |>> Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just have | to |>> find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. |> is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll |> update the section in |> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is. | | No idea, it's a driver issue. On detection of 47k device is switching to | fastcharge, which I think is actually working. Also it should activate | LOGICAL hostmode for USB-controller same time (NOT asserting EN_USBHOST!), | which is needed for Y-Cable and doesn't hurt charger. I don't have the | slightest idea whether this already is in kernel or not. It is deasserted if it sees you have a 1A charger in there, has been for a while. A related question: I presume that it is the electrical signal EN_USBHOST which flips the switch which causes the USB port to source current in host mode, as opposed to sinking current in device mode. This is of course what is expected of a USB host, but it also prevents us from charging the Freerunner when the USB port is in host mode, if an appropriate power source is available. Question: Is it possible to charge the Neo Freerunner when using the USB port in host mode, by ascerting LOGICAL hostmode and by NOT asserting EN_USBHOST? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Wed, 28 May 2008 02:15:16 +0200, Matt Mets <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It might also be cool to have the Freerunner act as a wireless router! Instant (slow) internet anywhere... In ad-hoc network mode only. AFAIK the WiFi chip used in the Freerunner doesn't support AP mode. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WiFi chip in fact _can_ do AP mode, but that mode is not allowed in the open source driver. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: |> Joerg |> |> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | wrote: |>> Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: |>>> i think it may still be up in the air |>> Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just have | to |>> find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. |> is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll |> update the section in |> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is. | | No idea, it's a driver issue. On detection of 47k device is switching to | fastcharge, which I think is actually working. Also it should activate | LOGICAL hostmode for USB-controller same time (NOT asserting EN_USBHOST!), | which is needed for Y-Cable and doesn't hurt charger. I don't have the | slightest idea whether this already is in kernel or not. It is deasserted if it sees you have a 1A charger in there, has been for a while. case CHARGER_TYPE_1A: pcf50633_usb_curlim_set(pcf, 1000); /* * stop GPO / EN_HOSTUSB power driving out on the same * USB power pins we have a 1A charger on right now! */ dev_info(&pcf->client.dev, "Charger -> CHARGER_TYPE_1A\n"); __reg_write(pcf, PCF50633_GPO - PCF50633_GPIO1 + PCF50633_REG_GPIO1CFG, __reg_read(pcf, PCF50633_GPO - PCF50633_GPIO1 + PCF50633_REG_GPIO1CFG) & 0xf0); break; - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg9qhAACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrLugCZAUZtiUVKx+eE6e3UIc84Meuc +i0An1FP0ngYSvkCZuGOforaCnW862WN =PLJ7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: > Joerg > > On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: > >> i think it may still be up in the air > > > Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just have to > > find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. > > is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll > update the section in > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is. No idea, it's a driver issue. On detection of 47k device is switching to fastcharge, which I think is actually working. Also it should activate LOGICAL hostmode for USB-controller same time (NOT asserting EN_USBHOST!), which is needed for Y-Cable and doesn't hurt charger. I don't have the slightest idea whether this already is in kernel or not. Andy? /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
Andy
> ~ It certainly works out OK for USB memory sticks anyway. "Battery life
> will be impacted" it is fair to say though.
not to sound like too much of a nut... I love my portable tech gear...
but there is a battery-operated hub that might be interesting to toss
in the mix ("CP-H420MP"). I'm ordering one now to try it together with
everything.
> If we have pppd in the rootfs I will give it a spin later, since I got
> it working on my laptop using pppd and magic dialler / expect type scripts.
ppp stuff is either in the rootfs or it is just an opkg install away.
I had to add option and usbserial from the modules tarball.
--
Brad
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Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
Joerg On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: >> i think it may still be up in the air > Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just have to > find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. is EN_USBHOST is deasserted by the system automatically now? I'll update the section in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware if it is. -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
That must be a really power hungry one... I plan on using my 3G / HSDPA Nokia E51 with the FreeRunner, probably over Bluetooth, but if that is too slow, then I'll give USB a shot. It doesn't charge over USB, so it shouldn't need too much power. Cheers, Federico On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Brad Midgley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Andy > >> I have one of these 3G dongles, it should work from Freerunner battery >> OK since we have a charge pump for the full 500mA it is allowed to pull. > > this verizon dongle comes with a Y cable of its own to plug into two > usb host ports... ostensibly because it pulls more than 500mA. > > -- > Brad > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
Andy > I have one of these 3G dongles, it should work from Freerunner battery > OK since we have a charge pump for the full 500mA it is allowed to pull. this verizon dongle comes with a Y cable of its own to plug into two usb host ports... ostensibly because it pulls more than 500mA. -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
Am Mi 28. Mai 2008 schrieb Brad Midgley: > i think it may still be up in the air how to run a usb device and keep > the freerunner charging externally. this 3g adapter i'm using draws a > lot of power, so it almost certainly won't work when only powered from > a freerunner's battery. Nope it's not, see Y-cable in wiki. Should work perfectly. You just have to find the 5pin-mini-USB-plug to DIY one. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
On Wed, 28 May 2008 02:15:16 +0200, Matt Mets <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It might also be cool to have the Freerunner act as a wireless router! Instant (slow) internet anywhere... In ad-hoc network mode only. AFAIK the WiFi chip used in the Freerunner doesn't support AP mode. -- Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: |> That's a great idea Matt! Might be a drain on the battery moving packets |> around though. Speaking of which, would anyone know if it would be possible |> to use a 3G USB dongle on one of these? ... | i think it may still be up in the air how to run a usb device and keep | the freerunner charging externally. this 3g adapter i'm using draws a | lot of power, so it almost certainly won't work when only powered from | a freerunner's battery. I have one of these 3G dongles, it should work from Freerunner battery OK since we have a charge pump for the full 500mA it is allowed to pull. ~ It certainly works out OK for USB memory sticks anyway. "Battery life will be impacted" it is fair to say though. If we have pppd in the rootfs I will give it a spin later, since I got it working on my laptop using pppd and magic dialler / expect type scripts. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg9EksACgkQOjLpvpq7dMofhACfeaY5AmcKeMrsHhBEzXIKZJHb HvIAn2bt0DTWeUVUJb8PpfsRaRZDh9tx =PFVp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
Nick On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 7:19 PM, nickd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That's a great idea Matt! Might be a drain on the battery moving packets > around though. Speaking of which, would anyone know if it would be possible > to use a 3G USB dongle on one of these? you can use a gta01 with a y-cable and power source (i modified the hub below to provide 5v upstream to eliminate the need for a y cable). I only had to add the modules "option" and "usbserial" to work with the 3g adapter. it's a cdma/evdo adapter from verizon. http://chockerblockablog.blogspot.com/2008/03/neo1973-no-wifi3gbattery-life-no.html it's not too hard to make the neo act as a bluetooth access point to multiple devices and also bt dun server for one more device. I haven't set this up on the neo yet but I did do that with a gumstix. i think it may still be up in the air how to run a usb device and keep the freerunner charging externally. this 3g adapter i'm using draws a lot of power, so it almost certainly won't work when only powered from a freerunner's battery. -- Brad ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
This is all encouraging. Even dial up (telephone modem) speed would have been good today. I could have gotten more work done today while waiting for the cable guy. I'm looking forward to trying this. Thanks On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Matt Mets <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It should be no problem. You just have to set up your routing tables > correctly so that the desktop knows to route its traffic to the device, and > the device knows to forward traffic to the cellular connection. It would be > really handy to have an application to configure all of this automagically. > > It might also be cool to have the Freerunner act as a wireless router! > Instant (slow) internet anywhere... > > > > Hi, > I'm was sitting in my workshop with the cable modem out and the local > wireless not working correctly and so no internet access today, wondering if > we can expect to use the FreeRunner/Openmoko as a cellular modem at any > point. I haven't seen much mention of this. Any ideas? > Thanks, > Vinc > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
3G USB Dongle (was Re: Neo as cellular modem?)
That's a great idea Matt! Might be a drain on the battery moving packets around though. Speaking of which, would anyone know if it would be possible to use a 3G USB dongle on one of these? I can't see why not. I have a friend here in Australia who users a Three (Hutchinson) network USB dongle plugged into his Ubuntu box. He tells me it uses PPP to dialin and it's as easy as pie. Can anyone shed some light on this? Cheers, Nick Matt Mets wrote: It should be no problem. You just have to set up your routing tables correctly so that the desktop knows to route its traffic to the device, and the device knows to forward traffic to the cellular connection. It would be really handy to have an application to configure all of this automagically. It might also be cool to have the Freerunner act as a wireless router! Instant (slow) internet anywhere... Hi, I'm was sitting in my workshop with the cable modem out and the local wireless not working correctly and so no internet access today, wondering if we can expect to use the FreeRunner/Openmoko as a cellular modem at any point. I haven't seen much mention of this. Any ideas? Thanks, Vinc ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Neo as cellular modem?
It should be no problem. You just have to set up your routing tables correctly so that the desktop knows to route its traffic to the device, and the device knows to forward traffic to the cellular connection. It would be really handy to have an application to configure all of this automagically. It might also be cool to have the Freerunner act as a wireless router! Instant (slow) internet anywhere... Hi, I'm was sitting in my workshop with the cable modem out and the local wireless not working correctly and so no internet access today, wondering if we can expect to use the FreeRunner/Openmoko as a cellular modem at any point. I haven't seen much mention of this. Any ideas? Thanks, Vinc___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
I think you should be able to but GPRS data rates aren't anything to be proud of [1], especially with web pages these days built assuming broadband bandwidth. You might get away with sites built for mobiles though. If I were you I'd work out how to get access to some wireless somewhere (friendly neighbours perhaps), or go to a cafe. -Nick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths#Mobile_telephone_interfaces Vinc Duran wrote: Hi, I'm was sitting in my workshop with the cable modem out and the local wireless not working correctly and so no internet access today, wondering if we can expect to use the FreeRunner/Openmoko as a cellular modem at any point. I haven't seen much mention of this. Any ideas? Thanks, Vinc ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo as cellular modem?
Hi, I'm was sitting in my workshop with the cable modem out and the local wireless not working correctly and so no internet access today, wondering if we can expect to use the FreeRunner/Openmoko as a cellular modem at any point. I haven't seen much mention of this. Any ideas? Thanks, Vinc ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
