Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread David Schlesinger 
On 1/25/07 2:33 AM, "Dave Crossland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> It is proprietary software, and using proprietary software is
> unethical and unsustainable.

I'm sorry, let me make sure I understand you correctly: making a choice to
use proprietary software is _unethical_!?

I happen to use Photoshop and Illustrator for digital artwork, because
they're miles ahead of the open source alternatives in functionality and
usability, not to mention the wide range of add-on and plug-in capabilities
available.

Are you telling me I'm doing something _unethical_ by making that choice?

For someone who's so into "freedom", you seem to be spending a lot of time
trying to limit the choices other people can make.

Why's that?



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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Joe Pfeiffer 
Shu Hung (Koala) writes:

>Koala Yeung
>P.S. May I ask one thing: Does application runs on i386 runs on OpenMoko
>with the same binary?

No.  The phone uses an ARM processor, which is a completely different
instruction set.

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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Dave Crossland 

On 25/01/07, Shu Hung (Koala) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I understand this GNU rational for the phone. But I would suggest OpenMoko
to take a more welcoming approach like Ubuntu do. If we have an apt-get like
application management system, we may have OpenMoko a FOSS default install
while allowing users to install proprietary software through 3rd party
respo.


I apologies for misunderstanding your original message.

I suggest OpenMoko take a more principled approach like Fedora do, to
only include Free Software in the official repositories.

3rd party repositories are inevitable, and there are no shortage of
popular 3rd party repositories that supply proprietary software
packaged for Fedora.

Ubuntu unfortunately _does_ supply proprietary software in its
official repositories :-(


P.S. May I ask one thing: Does application runs on i386 runs on OpenMoko
with the same binary?


No, because the processor is a different architecture.

--
Regards,
Dave

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IMHO only with the power/security of linux-vserver.org :) Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Robert Michel 
Salve Shu!

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Shu Hung (Koala) wrote:

> On 1/25/07, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >On 25/01/07, Shu Hung (Koala) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Why don't we just use the Flash for Linux 9 on OpenMoko?
> >
> >It is proprietary software, and using proprietary software is
> >unethical and unsustainable. 

> I understand this GNU rational for the phone. But I would suggest OpenMoko
> to take a more welcoming approach like Ubuntu do. If we have an apt-get like
> application management system, we may have OpenMoko a FOSS default install
> while allowing users to install proprietary software through 3rd party
> respo.

When doing this, linux-vserver.org would help that the device will 
stay a trustworthy device - so please consider to start propietary
non-FOSS software only on an own guest-system. (Jail it!)
http://www.linux-vserver.org needs only a little bit more ressources
and will run on the Neo. :)

Greetings
rob


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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Shu Hung (Koala) 

On 1/25/07, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On 25/01/07, Shu Hung (Koala) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why don't we just use the Flash for Linux 9 on OpenMoko?

It is proprietary software, and using proprietary software is
unethical and unsustainable. A clear example of its unsustainability
is that we couldn't recompile it for the Neo1973; it just wouldn't
work at all.

--
Regards,
Dave



Dave,

I understand this GNU rational for the phone. But I would suggest OpenMoko
to take a more welcoming approach like Ubuntu do. If we have an apt-get like
application management system, we may have OpenMoko a FOSS default install
while allowing users to install proprietary software through 3rd party
respo.

Koala Yeung
P.S. May I ask one thing: Does application runs on i386 runs on OpenMoko
with the same binary?
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Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Shu Hung (Koala) 

On 1/25/07, Miquel Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




Shu Hung (Koala) wrote:
> Why don't we just use the Flash for Linux 9 on OpenMoko?
> We may also use Minimo  on
> OpenMoko as browser, too.
>
AFAIK minimo is for Windows Mobile, isn't it?

Cheers
Miquel




Minimo is a Gecko application, like Firefox and Thunderbird. It should be
easy to have it compiled and run on Linux platform. Actually, they have plan
to put Minimo on Linux.
It seems to me they might just need a Linux smart-phone partner for
development and test. If OpenMoko is using Minimo, we can also take
advantage from the Mozilla community.

Koala Yeung
P.S. I'm a Firefox fans afterall
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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Al Johnson 
On Thursday 25 January 2007 09:38, Shu Hung (Koala) wrote:
> Why don't we just use the Flash for Linux 9 on OpenMoko?

Because it's only available for x86 CPUs.

> We may also use Minimo  on OpenMoko
> as browser, too.
>
> Koala Yeung
>
> On 1/25/07, Andrew Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Not sure if this fits the bill, but:
> > Gnash is a GNU Flash movie player
> > http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/
> >
> > On 1/24/07, Richard Franks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 18:16 +, Al Johnson wrote:
> > > > Getting a flash-capable browser will be another problem entirely...
> > >
> > > I wondered about that before posting, but I found this link, so it
> > > looks like options may be available.. although I gather the standard
> > > approach is to have the manufacturer negotiate the license with
> > > Macromedia: http://board.flashkit.com/board/archive/index.php/f-62.html
> > >
> > > But I think the bigger issue may be if mobile phones are subjected to
> > > different legislation than your regular PC - I can see the major phone
> > > manufacturers lobbying this point of view to protect and lock-in their
> > > market shares.
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Turner
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W
> > http://highearthorbit.com  Northville, Michigan, USA
> >
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Dave Crossland 

On 25/01/07, Shu Hung (Koala) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Why don't we just use the Flash for Linux 9 on OpenMoko?


It is proprietary software, and using proprietary software is
unethical and unsustainable. A clear example of its unsustainability
is that we couldn't recompile it for the Neo1973; it just wouldn't
work at all.

--
Regards,
Dave

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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Sven Neuhaus 
Shu Hung (Koala) wrote:
> Why don't we just use the Flash for Linux 9 on OpenMoko?

It's hard to compile it for another platform (non x86) without source..

-Sven

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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-25 Thread Shu Hung (Koala) 

Why don't we just use the Flash for Linux 9 on OpenMoko?
We may also use Minimo  on OpenMoko
as browser, too.

Koala Yeung

On 1/25/07, Andrew Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Not sure if this fits the bill, but:
Gnash is a GNU Flash movie player
http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/

On 1/24/07, Richard Franks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 18:16 +, Al Johnson wrote:
> > Getting a flash-capable browser will be another problem entirely...
>
> I wondered about that before posting, but I found this link, so it looks
> like options may be available.. although I gather the standard approach
> is to have the manufacturer negotiate the license with Macromedia:
> http://board.flashkit.com/board/archive/index.php/f-62.html
>
> But I think the bigger issue may be if mobile phones are subjected to
> different legislation than your regular PC - I can see the major phone
> manufacturers lobbying this point of view to protect and lock-in their
> market shares.
>
> Richard
>
>
> ___
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>


--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W
http://highearthorbit.com  Northville, Michigan, USA

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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-24 Thread Andrew Turner 

Not sure if this fits the bill, but:
Gnash is a GNU Flash movie player
http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/

On 1/24/07, Richard Franks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 18:16 +, Al Johnson wrote:
> Getting a flash-capable browser will be another problem entirely...

I wondered about that before posting, but I found this link, so it looks
like options may be available.. although I gather the standard approach
is to have the manufacturer negotiate the license with Macromedia:
http://board.flashkit.com/board/archive/index.php/f-62.html

But I think the bigger issue may be if mobile phones are subjected to
different legislation than your regular PC - I can see the major phone
manufacturers lobbying this point of view to protect and lock-in their
market shares.

Richard


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--
Andrew Turner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W
http://highearthorbit.com  Northville, Michigan, USA

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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-24 Thread Lars-Peter Clausen 

Richard Franks wrote:

On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 18:16 +, Al Johnson wrote:
  

Getting a flash-capable browser will be another problem entirely...



I wondered about that before posting, but I found this link, so it looks
like options may be available.. although I gather the standard approach
is to have the manufacturer negotiate the license with Macromedia:
http://board.flashkit.com/board/archive/index.php/f-62.html
  

We still have gnash ( http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/ )

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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-24 Thread Richard Franks 
On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 18:16 +, Al Johnson wrote:
> Getting a flash-capable browser will be another problem entirely...

I wondered about that before posting, but I found this link, so it looks
like options may be available.. although I gather the standard approach
is to have the manufacturer negotiate the license with Macromedia:
http://board.flashkit.com/board/archive/index.php/f-62.html

But I think the bigger issue may be if mobile phones are subjected to
different legislation than your regular PC - I can see the major phone
manufacturers lobbying this point of view to protect and lock-in their
market shares.

Richard


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Re: Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-24 Thread Al Johnson 
On Wednesday 24 January 2007 17:55, Richard Franks wrote:
> The distinction may become more relevant if you get hit with a cease and
> desist - "YouTube has blocked a small company from making YouTube videos
> available on mobile phones":
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/23/youtube_blocks_mobile_video_encoder
>/
>
> If we have a browser with Flash support capable of displaying YouTube
> video, and then run it on the Neo.. are we suddenly going to have to
> worry about litigation such as this company did?

Not a problem - it's just a browser. This company was transcoding the video. 
Running your own transcoding proxy is probably fine, but start doing it as a 
service to others and you could have a problem.

Getting a flash-capable browser will be another problem entirely...

>
> "We were informed by YT their action was largely due to pressure from
> their new mobile partner, Verizon."
>
> Richard
>
>
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Neo1973: Mobile Phone or Mobile Computer?

2007-01-24 Thread Richard Franks 
The distinction may become more relevant if you get hit with a cease and
desist - "YouTube has blocked a small company from making YouTube videos
available on mobile phones":

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/23/youtube_blocks_mobile_video_encoder/

If we have a browser with Flash support capable of displaying YouTube
video, and then run it on the Neo.. are we suddenly going to have to
worry about litigation such as this company did?

"We were informed by YT their action was largely due to pressure from
their new mobile partner, Verizon."

Richard


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