Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007, Ian Stirling wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for non-invasive prototyping, there is also the usb port. That's really quite annoying to use though - as anything more than -1th generation prototype. You need external power, a plug that makes the phone unusable as an actual portable phone when plugged in, and a seperate unit. as i said, it's for prototyping, and for doing it w/out opening the phone. i'm not claiming anything else. here's a simple CHEAP USB AVR development board. one of the demonstration programs emulates a mouse; it would be so simple to modify that to do a slider interface, and no drivers to cross-compile. plenty of undedicated IO pins to interface to slider technology of your choice. hard to beat at $30: http://atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3879 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for non-invasive prototyping, there is also the usb port. That's really quite annoying to use though - as anything more than -1th generation prototype. You need external power, a plug that makes the phone unusable as an actual portable phone when plugged in, and a seperate unit. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
well, i didn't like 'touch strip/pad' idea at first, but maybe it can be used for some kind of poor multi-touch feature ;-) hold one finger in some point of the screen and slide with another finger on touch strip and screen rotates/images zoom in/mp3 rewinds... a key for usability of this idea would be a position of the touch strip on the Neo... just a thought... :-) P. Joe Friedrichsen pisze: [..] > > Futuristic for some countries :-) > [...] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
for non-invasive prototyping, there is also the usb port. On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Luit van Drongelen wrote: If FIC doesn't want to make it, you can try and build it for yourself. There's SPI and I2C available as test/contact/solder pads on the GTA01Bv4 PCB IIRC. (hmm, too much abbreviations?) -- Luit On 6/19/07, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There is also the possibility to use a scroll wheel that can be turned about 30 deg in each direction. The more it is turned, the faster we scroll. But I would like a touch strip if we have enough GPIO pins (or SPI?) available. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
It's been discussed here before (by me ;) ), but I think it's fitting to bring it up in this thread. Mounting a swipe fingerprint sensor on the side would provide the following: * A low-power way to unlock the phone while verifying the user should be unlocking the phone. * Enhanced, or at least more convenient if you believe the anti-fingerprint fud, security for your data * a navigation device that can scroll in two directions as well as include tapping and double-tapping * some gesture recognition for shortcuts (speed dial, application starting, etc) * I'm probably missing some. --Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Ok, there seems to be 2 other possibilities, a rocker switch and a scroll wheel. Rocker switch: Have you ever used a cheap mouse with a rocker switch instead of a scroll wheel? If you have then you know how limited they are. They simply do not offer the same amount of control a scroll wheel or touch strip does. Scroll wheel: A scroll wheel is much better, which is why mice use them. They can provide mechanical feedback and give the user far more control over their scrolling adventures. However, the image on the screen scrolling will be enough feedback. I used to work for HP in their research center (HP Labs). While there I worked on a prototype ebook reader. To maximise the readability of the display, the device doesn't have a touchscreen. Instead it has touch strips around the outside of the screen. To turn a page you drag your finger along the strip and see the page turning as you move your finger. Stop moving your finger and the page stops turning. The feel of the interface was awesome. Some pics here: http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/7676/8700/hp-ebook-reader-concept-design.phtml although without a video it's hard to gauge just how well it works. (I actually wrote the touch strip calibration software and the "bookshelf" application on the device the bloke is holding in the first picture. :-) ) So given that the visual feedback is adequate, a touch strip does give you more than a scroll wheel. First, the strip can be quite long, although I guess you'd only want it between 25-40mm. It also gives you a resolution of 128 different positions, allowing very precise (pixel-by-pixel) control of the image you are scrolling. I've just tried my own mouse's scroll wheel, which, in a single finger "swipe", gives me 8/9 different positions. That's a whole lot more control. I guess one problem with pixel-by-pixel scrolling is CPU power. Without a hardware blitter, I doubt the GTA01 has enough processing power to give smooth scrolling. Roll on GTA02. :-) As for power & jogging the touch strip accidentally, well, the controller provides a stand-by mode. When the phone is locked, the strip controller is placed in standby. Why would you ever want to have a scrolling input device wake it up? Also, while I'm on the subject, please tell me that the GTA01 is not woken up by touchscreen interupts??? To have a complete resistive touchscreen and it's associated controller powered up all the time must make quite an impact on power consumption?!?!? Or does it poll the touch screen every 500ms or so while locked? Judging from some odd replies I should probably clarify that this is a 1D, one dimensional sensor. It's not a touch pad and IMO, a side mounted touch pad makes no sense. I also agree with people who say there should be some buttons. I think a touch strip combined with 2 buttons (select & back) is all you need or want for menu navigation. I also think the 2 buttons should complement the touch strip in such a way that the device can be used single handedly. The sensor controllers I first posted use either I2C or SPI so technically could be retrofitted. The only problem is that the Analog part (my preferred part) is only available as "pain-in-the-bottom" to solder 4x4mm surface mount packages, which is beyond my skill to solder. :-( Also, these are very specialist multi-element capacitive sensors. A general purpose uc is not able to detect the tiny changes in capacitance between sensor elements. The chips contain very complicated and sensitive self-calibration and environmental compensation circuitry which cannot be replicated. Cheers, Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
If FIC doesn't want to make it, you can try and build it for yourself. There's SPI and I2C available as test/contact/solder pads on the GTA01Bv4 PCB IIRC. (hmm, too much abbreviations?) -- Luit On 6/19/07, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There is also the possibility to use a scroll wheel that can be turned about 30 deg in each direction. The more it is turned, the faster we scroll. But I would like a touch strip if we have enough GPIO pins (or SPI?) available. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
There is also the possibility to use a scroll wheel that can be turned about 30 deg in each direction. The more it is turned, the faster we scroll. But I would like a touch strip if we have enough GPIO pins (or SPI?) available. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Am 19.06.2007 um 21:26 schrieb Jordan Anderson: I have a touch strip on my HTC Excalibur, and one of the first things I did was shut it off -- simply handling the phone was causing the volume to go up and down, or my browser to go back. Obviously a personal thing, but with a physical button it's easier to remember that it's there. When using a controller that is programmable, one could have a double- click keylock feature 1) tap 2) release within specific delay 3) tap again within specific delay and specific nearness to the first tap 4) now, while holding the finger, slide. Only if you "unlocked" with the double tab, then the slide is reckognized. just an idea... Cheers, Thomas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
On 6/19/07, Jordan Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have a touch strip on my HTC Excalibur, and one of the first things I did was shut it off -- simply handling the phone was causing the volume to go up and down, or my browser to go back. Obviously a personal thing, but with a physical button it's easier to remember that it's there. True enough. My phone is a V401D by Mitsubishi, and its shape and design didn't really lend to unintentional scrolling. The touch strip is on the side in a place that is easy to reach with a thumb, but not in the place where you would naturally hold the phone. Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
On 6/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ortwin Regel wrote: -snip- > I could also see some applications for a Blackberry style wheel, for > example volume control and scrolling. I don't think using a futuristic > sensor would be a good idea because we already have an analog device > without feedback which is the touchscreen. What is the problem with that? I would love a touch pad. So why adding some ugly analog buttons to a mobile, known for not having any buttons (nearly)? A touch pad would give me more power for controlling the speed of scrolling as well... Daniel > > Ortwin > If it works as well as you describe, I wouldn't be against it. I thought the touchscreen would provide that functionality well enough but it sounds like it might provide interesting added functionality that a wheel could not provide, either. On 6/19/07, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thomas Gstädtner writes: >Yes, a kind of double rocker-push-button (is there a correct english word? >^^) would be fine, too. >Not two buttons, but one button with 2 contacts (one on each side) and a >neutral position in mid. >Here's a picture I found via google, to imagine what I mean: >http://awshifting.com/pictures/rocker1.jpg Normally, these multi-button interfaces have a single cover, conveying the illusion that they're a rocker switch (perfectly good english word!). If the plastic doesn't have a pivot under it, pushing the middle will activate both buttons giving the effect of a middle button. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I'd prefer independent buttons which would have the same functionality but be more useful for gaming. Ortwin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
My Japanese mobile has a touch strip, and I bought it in Q2 2004. It made scrolling through texts and sites very easy and the friction provided by the slightly rubbery strip made for some great feedback (touching a touch screen is different than sliding on a touch strip, despite the misleading names). Joe I have a touch strip on my HTC Excalibur, and one of the first things I did was shut it off -- simply handling the phone was causing the volume to go up and down, or my browser to go back. Obviously a personal thing, but with a physical button it's easier to remember that it's there. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Am 19.06.2007 um 11:39 schrieb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: ... An 8-element capacitive sensor would work wonderfully and be easy to fab using either a Quantum QT411 (http://www.qprox.com/products/qslide_qt411.php) or Analog Devices AD7143 (http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,AD7143,00.html) controller. I would like to throw in the Cypress series of PSoCs (Programmable System on Chips) Its a 8bit uC plus some digital and analog blocks that can be interconnected like a FPGA, all in one single chip. Its very flexible, and tools for assembly level software developpment are freely available. I dont think that the gcc can currently compile for it as a target though. Why this interesting in my opinion: Selfmade keylock-logic ala iphone slide, so we dont wake up continously the samsung main CPU when worn in a pocket or such thing. only after the slide, we generate the interupt. We are free to develop our own logic. More Info: http://www.cypress.com/capsense/index.jsp BTW: this is something that might easily be retrofittet to the Phase 1 devices, once available. Cheers, Thomas I think the current Ipod nano uses them aswell for the clickwheel.___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
On 6/19/07, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I could also see some applications for a Blackberry style wheel, for example volume control and scrolling. I don't think using a futuristic sensor would be a good idea because we already have an analog device without feedback which is the touchscreen. Futuristic for some countries :-) My Japanese mobile has a touch strip, and I bought it in Q2 2004. It made scrolling through texts and sites very easy and the friction provided by the slightly rubbery strip made for some great feedback (touching a touch screen is different than sliding on a touch strip, despite the misleading names). Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Ortwin Regel wrote: -snip- I could also see some applications for a Blackberry style wheel, for example volume control and scrolling. I don't think using a futuristic sensor would be a good idea because we already have an analog device without feedback which is the touchscreen. What is the problem with that? I would love a touch pad. So why adding some ugly analog buttons to a mobile, known for not having any buttons (nearly)? A touch pad would give me more power for controlling the speed of scrolling as well... Daniel Ortwin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Thomas Gstädtner writes: >Yes, a kind of double rocker-push-button (is there a correct english word? >^^) would be fine, too. >Not two buttons, but one button with 2 contacts (one on each side) and a >neutral position in mid. >Here's a picture I found via google, to imagine what I mean: >http://awshifting.com/pictures/rocker1.jpg Normally, these multi-button interfaces have a single cover, conveying the illusion that they're a rocker switch (perfectly good english word!). If the plastic doesn't have a pivot under it, pushing the middle will activate both buttons giving the effect of a middle button. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Yes, a kind of double rocker-push-button (is there a correct english word? ^^) would be fine, too. Not two buttons, but one button with 2 contacts (one on each side) and a neutral position in mid. Here's a picture I found via google, to imagine what I mean: http://awshifting.com/pictures/rocker1.jpg 2007/6/19, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Ortwin Regel writes: >No, the PSP stick is crap. We don't really need anything analog, the >touchscreen does that fine. What we could use are some decent, solid >buttons and/or a d-pad. >I could also see some applications for a Blackberry style wheel, for >example volume control and scrolling. I don't think using a futuristic >sensor would be a good idea because we already have an analog device >without feedback which is the touchscreen. I'll agree with this -- two buttons (with good tactile feedback) on the side give me exactly what I want for scrolling and volume control. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
No, the PSP stick is crap. We don't really need anything analog, the touchscreen does that fine. What we could use are some decent, solid buttons and/or a d-pad. I could also see some applications for a Blackberry style wheel, for example volume control and scrolling. I don't think using a futuristic sensor would be a good idea because we already have an analog device without feedback which is the touchscreen. Ortwin On 6/19/07, Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: > On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:39:22 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >>This is an idea which was floated on the SVHMPC list a few months ago. >>The only possible issue is those people who are left-handed. Perhaps a >>strip on each side would be the best way to go. :-) >> > > I think the HTC S620 has something like this (their Blackberry looking device > if I got the model number wrong) if anyone wants to see it in real life (I > haven't). > > Personally, I'd prefer a 5 way scroll wheel like on my SE P900,though. I'm unsure - I've now found that analog sticks as replacements for PSP ones are $6. Which could be fun too. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Ortwin Regel writes: >No, the PSP stick is crap. We don't really need anything analog, the >touchscreen does that fine. What we could use are some decent, solid >buttons and/or a d-pad. >I could also see some applications for a Blackberry style wheel, for >example volume control and scrolling. I don't think using a futuristic >sensor would be a good idea because we already have an analog device >without feedback which is the touchscreen. I'll agree with this -- two buttons (with good tactile feedback) on the side give me exactly what I want for scrolling and volume control. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:39:22 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an idea which was floated on the SVHMPC list a few months ago. The only possible issue is those people who are left-handed. Perhaps a strip on each side would be the best way to go. :-) I think the HTC S620 has something like this (their Blackberry looking device if I got the model number wrong) if anyone wants to see it in real life (I haven't). Personally, I'd prefer a 5 way scroll wheel like on my SE P900,though. I'm unsure - I've now found that analog sticks as replacements for PSP ones are $6. Which could be fun too. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 10:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi All, > > I've added a new item on the hardware wishlist: > > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Side-Mounted_Touch_St > rip > > This is an idea which was floated on the SVHMPC list a few months ago. > The only possible issue is those people who are left-handed. Perhaps a > strip on each side would be the best way to go. :-) When holding the device for 2-handed operation you'll probably find thumb and index finger at about the same position on opposite sides. I find the comfortable range of movement about the same for each, and they're similarly easy to move, so a single sided sensor could be used with either hand. Put a sensor on each side and you can operate both together. For one handed operation the index finger can easily go where the thumb does for 2-handed operation, but this would need sensors both sides to cover left and right handedness. > Cheers, > > Tom > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:39:22 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This is an idea which was floated on the SVHMPC list a few months ago. > The only possible issue is those people who are left-handed. Perhaps a > strip on each side would be the best way to go. :-) > I think the HTC S620 has something like this (their Blackberry looking device if I got the model number wrong) if anyone wants to see it in real life (I haven't). Personally, I'd prefer a 5 way scroll wheel like on my SE P900,though. pgpBdP3Ix5aas.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
That's exactly what I already was talking about in the dasher-thread, because this touchpad would be a cool device to control different things, especially for dasher text-input in 1D-mode (or 2D). Glad that you found a matching device. Imho it shouldn't be a problem for left-handed people, too. Before some years, I also was left-handed, but I switched to the right hand. I cannot write by hand with my left-hand anymore (would need some training), but controlling a mouse, touchpad, trackstick, joystick, ... with my left hand isn't really a problem. But it would also be possible to use the forefinger with the right hand and the thumb with the left hand, so everyone woul be able to use it.e Btw: RIM shows with their blackberry devices (at least the older ones) how cool a such device can be. A touchpad would be even better than the scrollbutton. 2007/6/19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Hi All, I've added a new item on the hardware wishlist: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Side-Mounted_Touch_St rip Add a "touch strip" sensor onto the side of the phone which can be used to scroll. By having it on the side you can use your thumb to scroll comfortably while holding the phone one-handed. An 8-element capacitive sensor would work wonderfully and be easy to fab using either a Quantum QT411 (http://www.qprox.com/products/qslide_qt411.php) or Analog Devices AD7143 (http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,AD7143,00.html) controller. The Analog Devices chip seems better suited due to it's smaller allowable element size. With the AD7143 you can have an 8-element (128-position) 25mm long strip - Perfect!. This is an idea which was floated on the SVHMPC list a few months ago. The only possible issue is those people who are left-handed. Perhaps a strip on each side would be the best way to go. :-) Cheers, Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
New wishlist item: Side-mounted touch strip sensor
Hi All, I've added a new item on the hardware wishlist: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Side-Mounted_Touch_St rip Add a "touch strip" sensor onto the side of the phone which can be used to scroll. By having it on the side you can use your thumb to scroll comfortably while holding the phone one-handed. An 8-element capacitive sensor would work wonderfully and be easy to fab using either a Quantum QT411 (http://www.qprox.com/products/qslide_qt411.php) or Analog Devices AD7143 (http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,AD7143,00.html) controller. The Analog Devices chip seems better suited due to it's smaller allowable element size. With the AD7143 you can have an 8-element (128-position) 25mm long strip - Perfect!. This is an idea which was floated on the SVHMPC list a few months ago. The only possible issue is those people who are left-handed. Perhaps a strip on each side would be the best way to go. :-) Cheers, Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
