RE: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.

[Dean Collins]

Sure not a problem but when you are finished 'papering' please explain
to all the consumers why the costs of their $49 (or free) handsets just
doubled or tripled to full retail/manufacturing costs.

 

No one is forcing you to buy these handsets.

 

Sim only plans are available.

 

Get over it and get real about what is important when it comes to gsm
mobile connectivity and the sales structure that carriers have chosen to
implement this connectivity with. Your arguments are childish and
boring, and give the masses more credit, they know that these devices
don't really cost $49 to build.

 

 

Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 +1-212-203-4357 Ph
+1-917-207-3420 Mb
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Kome
Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 11:31 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones. 

 

We should paper the world with (something like) this rant ahead of the
wide release of Neo1973.  

The fettered masses really don't get it yet.   

 

Covers 8 myths which drive folks to buy locked phones and/or 2yr
contracts:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/Its_time_to_buy_SIM-free_ph
ones.php

 

"How would Apple fans react if the latest Mac computer was exclusively
locked to a particular ISP, was only available to people who live in
that ISP's service area, and people had to sign up to a 2 year contract
with that ISP? The Apple fans would be mad as hell, so why on earth are
they having to put up with exactly the same restrictions on a portable,
pocket-sized Mac computer called the iPhone?"

 

"How is it that Finland, a poorer, lower-density country without phone
contracts, and with a law banning locked phones, developed far better
phone coverage than America, the land of locked phones and 2 year
contracts?"

 

 

 

Sam Kome
 UX Team Member
    
www.motricity.com  
view corporate video  

 

NOTICE: This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information of
Motricity. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
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RE: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Dean Collins writes:

>Sim only plans are available.

I've been looking for a sim-only plan (that costs less than a plan
with a "free" phone) in the US.  Could you point me at one?

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Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.

[Andreas Kostyrka]

* Dean Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070226 18:16]:
>Sure not a problem but when you are finished `papering' please explain to
>all the consumers why the costs of their $49 (or free) handsets just
>doubled or tripled to full retail/manufacturing costs.

Well, that's bullshit. In Germany you get usually non-simlocked phones
with your contract, and that's it. In Austria, other tradition, you
get usually simlocked phone with contracts, but it's relativly cheap
after the contract expired to get the network operator to unlock it.

The relevant bit here is, that the thing that allowes the operator to
offer the lower rates is the contract, not the simlock.

One last interesting thing, non-supported phones when sold by the
operators in Austria are priced quite high, AND do include the simlock.

And it's obviously legal to unlock it anyway, because some discount
operator has been recommending 3rd-party unlock services ;)

Andreas

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Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[Shawn Rutledge]

SIMs are great - I don't like SIM-free phones like Verizon ones that
require somebody at Verizon to switch the service to a different
phone.  With GSM you just switch the SIM yourself.  Of course it would
also be nice to be able to use different devices without having to
physically switch the SIM (like use the GPRS connection in a laptop or
PDA).  Anyway "SIM-free" is misleading as you are using it, because
you are actually complaining about locked phones that will only work
on one network.   And BTW it's not so hard to buy new unlocked phones
on the net if you are willing to pay unsubsidized prices for them.

As for Jobs, I think he negotiated a lot of unique stuff that cannot
typically be negotiated with a carrier.  It's too bad the phone still
costs $500-600 even with a contract.  Makes me wonder what the real
manufacturing cost is; is the hardware that super-duper or are they
just wanting to have even better margins than they get on ipods?

On 2/26/07, Sam Kome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





We should paper the world with (something like) this rant ahead of the wide 
release of Neo1973.

The fettered masses really don't get it yet.



Covers 8 myths which drive folks to buy locked phones and/or 2yr contracts:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/Its_time_to_buy_SIM-free_phones.php



"How would Apple fans react if the latest Mac computer was exclusively locked to a 
particular ISP, was only available to people who live in that ISP's service area, and 
people had to sign up to a 2 year contract with that ISP? The Apple fans would be mad as 
hell, so why on earth are they having to put up with exactly the same restrictions on a 
portable, pocket-sized Mac computer called the iPhone?"



"How is it that Finland, a poorer, lower-density country without phone contracts, 
and with a law banning locked phones, developed far better phone coverage than America, 
the land of locked phones and 2 year contracts?"







Sam Kome
 UX Team Member

 www.motricity.com
 view corporate video



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RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[Sam Kome]

I think that the article I linked to really clearly covers all of the
issues presented in the email responses.  The price subsidies, the
locked/unlocked, the SIM buying, the phone w/o SIM buying, etc.

That's why I brought it to this group, because I respect the
intelligence of the folks here, and I think they care about furthering
the efficacy and usability of mobile computing and communication.

I took it for granted that everyone on the list, including myself, knows
the difference between T/CDMA (also available with SIMs, but nevermind)
and GSM devices in terms of subscriber identity management.  

I _don't_ take for granted that anyone not working in or around the cell
phone industry can even spell SIM, let alone understand the implications
of whether or not their phone has a removable chip, or if that chip will
work in another device, let alone with another carrier.

When my mother/brother/friend in the US wants to buy a phone, they are
very likely to go to one or two cell phone outlet stores, RTFMA, and see
a plethora of plans with minutes and calling circles and
free-after-x-o'clock.  They will not be able to reasonably compare these
to each other without performing sophisticated systems analysis on the
fly.  They will and do sign up for 2 year contracts _and/or_ locked
devices.  

This by the way, makes my job (creating mobile content) more difficult,
so I have both the philosphical and selfish professional incentives to
try to both educate the general public and solve the core problem as I
see it, which is a sea of proprietary devices that have lousy software
and worse user interfaces.

How'd I do? Still childish boring bullshit?  


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn
Rutledge
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 12:51 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
phones.)

SIMs are great - I don't like SIM-free phones like Verizon ones that
require somebody at Verizon to switch the service to a different
phone.  With GSM you just switch the SIM yourself.  Of course it would
also be nice to be able to use different devices without having to
physically switch the SIM (like use the GPRS connection in a laptop or
PDA).  Anyway "SIM-free" is misleading as you are using it, because
you are actually complaining about locked phones that will only work
on one network.   And BTW it's not so hard to buy new unlocked phones
on the net if you are willing to pay unsubsidized prices for them.

As for Jobs, I think he negotiated a lot of unique stuff that cannot
typically be negotiated with a carrier.  It's too bad the phone still
costs $500-600 even with a contract.  Makes me wonder what the real
manufacturing cost is; is the hardware that super-duper or are they
just wanting to have even better margins than they get on ipods?

On 2/26/07, Sam Kome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> We should paper the world with (something like) this rant ahead of the
wide release of Neo1973.
>
> The fettered masses really don't get it yet.
>
>
>
> Covers 8 myths which drive folks to buy locked phones and/or 2yr
contracts:
>
>
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/Its_time_to_buy_SIM-free_ph
ones.php
>
>
>
> "How would Apple fans react if the latest Mac computer was exclusively
locked to a particular ISP, was only available to people who live in
that ISP's service area, and people had to sign up to a 2 year contract
with that ISP? The Apple fans would be mad as hell, so why on earth are
they having to put up with exactly the same restrictions on a portable,
pocket-sized Mac computer called the iPhone?"
>
>
>
> "How is it that Finland, a poorer, lower-density country without phone
contracts, and with a law banning locked phones, developed far better
phone coverage than America, the land of locked phones and 2 year
contracts?"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sam Kome
>  UX Team Member
>
>  www.motricity.com
>  view corporate video
>
>
>
> NOTICE: This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information of
Motricity.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
> ___
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
>

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and may contain c

Re: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[Andreas Kostyrka]

* Sam Kome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070226 19:41]:
> When my mother/brother/friend in the US wants to buy a phone, they are
> very likely to go to one or two cell phone outlet stores, RTFMA, and see
> a plethora of plans with minutes and calling circles and
> free-after-x-o'clock.  They will not be able to reasonably compare these
> to each other without performing sophisticated systems analysis on the
> fly.  They will and do sign up for 2 year contracts _and/or_ locked
> devices.

Stupid users^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husers that don't care, or don't
compare plans are an universal problem. Trust me, comparing calling
plans in Europe is not less complicated than in the US. 

> 
> This by the way, makes my job (creating mobile content) more difficult,
> so I have both the philosphical and selfish professional incentives to
> try to both educate the general public and solve the core problem as I
> see it, which is a sea of proprietary devices that have lousy software
> and worse user interfaces.
> 
> How'd I do? Still childish boring bullshit?  

Well, it's not exactly a stellar observation, and yes, the OpenMoko
platform has some promise, if it succeeds, to change the realities in
the cellular industry. But it won't be fast, nor do I expect it to
happen without some severe backfighting. (Consider, not only there is
a known ecosystem that is to the (shortsighted) benefit of the
companies involved, the group that has the most to gain from OpenMoko
are the endusers. Worse the powerusers, which are a bad deal for the
networks anyway. I do compare plans, and I tend to use what I buy.)

Andreas

> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn
> Rutledge
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 12:51 PM
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> phones.)
> 
> SIMs are great - I don't like SIM-free phones like Verizon ones that
> require somebody at Verizon to switch the service to a different
> phone.  With GSM you just switch the SIM yourself.  Of course it would
> also be nice to be able to use different devices without having to
> physically switch the SIM (like use the GPRS connection in a laptop or
> PDA).  Anyway "SIM-free" is misleading as you are using it, because
> you are actually complaining about locked phones that will only work
> on one network.   And BTW it's not so hard to buy new unlocked phones
> on the net if you are willing to pay unsubsidized prices for them.
> 
> As for Jobs, I think he negotiated a lot of unique stuff that cannot
> typically be negotiated with a carrier.  It's too bad the phone still
> costs $500-600 even with a contract.  Makes me wonder what the real
> manufacturing cost is; is the hardware that super-duper or are they
> just wanting to have even better margins than they get on ipods?
> 
> On 2/26/07, Sam Kome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We should paper the world with (something like) this rant ahead of the
> wide release of Neo1973.
> >
> > The fettered masses really don't get it yet.
> >
> >
> >
> > Covers 8 myths which drive folks to buy locked phones and/or 2yr
> contracts:
> >
> >
> http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/Its_time_to_buy_SIM-free_ph
> ones.php
> >
> >
> >
> > "How would Apple fans react if the latest Mac computer was exclusively
> locked to a particular ISP, was only available to people who live in
> that ISP's service area, and people had to sign up to a 2 year contract
> with that ISP? The Apple fans would be mad as hell, so why on earth are
> they having to put up with exactly the same restrictions on a portable,
> pocket-sized Mac computer called the iPhone?"
> >
> >
> >
> > "How is it that Finland, a poorer, lower-density country without phone
> contracts, and with a law banning locked phones, developed far better
> phone coverage than America, the land of locked phones and 2 year
> contracts?"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sam Kome
> >  UX Team Member
> >
> >  www.motricity.com
> >  view corporate video
> >
> >
> >
> > NOTICE: This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information of
> Motricity.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
> prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
> sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
> > 

RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Sam...

Thanks for posting that link.  A great write up on the "Fundamentally
Immoral" business practices in the cellullar communications industry today. 

What I expect from the "Operators" or "Carriers" (depending on which oceans
are nearby) is that they cease and desist using obfuscation and bundling to
hide the true cost of their services.  Ala-carte pricing that can be
compared business to business.

Another Mini-Rant of my own: 

Cell Plans That Help Parents Teach Responsibility

As a parent, one of my great angers with the cellular industry is that
NO-ONE has offered a pre-paid plan that limits the child's monthly use of
the air-time resource by cutting it off once the minute limit is exceeded
for the month.  Calls FROM and TO the parent account would still go through
and be billed to the parent account.  

But the cell industry in not interested in what is best for Society as a
whole, namely  young people who can demonstrate the ability to conserve and
manage resources.  Thanks for being such good citizens, guys. (<< Sarcasm)

Alan McSwain

Original Message:
-
From: Sam Kome [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:18:59 -0500
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
phones.)



I think that the article I linked to really clearly covers all of the
issues presented in the email responses.  The price subsidies, the
locked/unlocked, the SIM buying, the phone w/o SIM buying, etc.

That's why I brought it to this group, because I respect the
intelligence of the folks here, and I think they care about furthering
the efficacy and usability of mobile computing and communication.

I took it for granted that everyone on the list, including myself, knows
the difference between T/CDMA (also available with SIMs, but nevermind)
and GSM devices in terms of subscriber identity management.  

I _don't_ take for granted that anyone not working in or around the cell
phone industry can even spell SIM, let alone understand the implications
of whether or not their phone has a removable chip, or if that chip will
work in another device, let alone with another carrier.

When my mother/brother/friend in the US wants to buy a phone, they are
very likely to go to one or two cell phone outlet stores, RTFMA, and see
a plethora of plans with minutes and calling circles and
free-after-x-o'clock.  They will not be able to reasonably compare these
to each other without performing sophisticated systems analysis on the
fly.  They will and do sign up for 2 year contracts _and/or_ locked
devices.  

This by the way, makes my job (creating mobile content) more difficult,
so I have both the philosphical and selfish professional incentives to
try to both educate the general public and solve the core problem as I
see it, which is a sea of proprietary devices that have lousy software
and worse user interfaces.

How'd I do? Still childish boring bullshit?  


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn
Rutledge
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 12:51 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
phones.)

SIMs are great - I don't like SIM-free phones like Verizon ones that
require somebody at Verizon to switch the service to a different
phone.  With GSM you just switch the SIM yourself.  Of course it would
also be nice to be able to use different devices without having to
physically switch the SIM (like use the GPRS connection in a laptop or
PDA).  Anyway "SIM-free" is misleading as you are using it, because
you are actually complaining about locked phones that will only work
on one network.   And BTW it's not so hard to buy new unlocked phones
on the net if you are willing to pay unsubsidized prices for them.

As for Jobs, I think he negotiated a lot of unique stuff that cannot
typically be negotiated with a carrier.  It's too bad the phone still
costs $500-600 even with a contract.  Makes me wonder what the real
manufacturing cost is; is the hardware that super-duper or are they
just wanting to have even better margins than they get on ipods?

On 2/26/07, Sam Kome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> We should paper the world with (something like) this rant ahead of the
wide release of Neo1973.
>
> The fettered masses really don't get it yet.
>
>
>
> Covers 8 myths which drive folks to buy locked phones and/or 2yr
contracts:
>
>
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/Its_time_to_buy_SIM-free_ph
ones.php
>
>
>
> "How would Apple fans react if the latest Mac computer was exclusively
locked to a particular ISP, was only available to people who live in
that ISP's service area, and people had to sign up to a 2 year contract
with that ISP? The Apple fans would be mad as hell, so why on earth are
t

RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[Dean Collins]

> 
> As a parent, one of my great angers with the cellular industry is that
> NO-ONE has offered a pre-paid plan that limits the child's monthly use
of
> the air-time resource by cutting it off once the minute limit is
exceeded
> for the month.  Calls FROM and TO the parent account would still go
through
> and be billed to the parent account.


Alan,
Totally incorrect, this was one of the main themes behind the Disney
MVNO and I also think Verizon or cingular have this option as well (I
know I saw a tv ad for one of them a few months ago but cant remember
which one)

 

Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1-212-203-4357 Ph
+1-917-207-3420 Mb
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 2:27 PM
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
phones.)
> 
> Sam...
> 
> Thanks for posting that link.  A great write up on the "Fundamentally
> Immoral" business practices in the cellullar communications industry
today.
> 
> What I expect from the "Operators" or "Carriers" (depending on which
oceans
> are nearby) is that they cease and desist using obfuscation and
bundling to
> hide the true cost of their services.  Ala-carte pricing that can be
> compared business to business.
> 
> Another Mini-Rant of my own:
> 
> Cell Plans That Help Parents Teach Responsibility
> 
> As a parent, one of my great angers with the cellular industry is that
> NO-ONE has offered a pre-paid plan that limits the child's monthly use
of
> the air-time resource by cutting it off once the minute limit is
exceeded
> for the month.  Calls FROM and TO the parent account would still go
through
> and be billed to the parent account.
> 
> But the cell industry in not interested in what is best for Society as
a
> whole, namely  young people who can demonstrate the ability to
conserve and
> manage resources.  Thanks for being such good citizens, guys. (<<
Sarcasm)
> 
> Alan McSwain
> 
> Original Message:
> -----
> From: Sam Kome [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:18:59 -0500
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> phones.)
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the article I linked to really clearly covers all of the
> issues presented in the email responses.  The price subsidies, the
> locked/unlocked, the SIM buying, the phone w/o SIM buying, etc.
> 
> That's why I brought it to this group, because I respect the
> intelligence of the folks here, and I think they care about furthering
> the efficacy and usability of mobile computing and communication.
> 
> I took it for granted that everyone on the list, including myself,
knows
> the difference between T/CDMA (also available with SIMs, but
nevermind)
> and GSM devices in terms of subscriber identity management.
> 
> I _don't_ take for granted that anyone not working in or around the
cell
> phone industry can even spell SIM, let alone understand the
implications
> of whether or not their phone has a removable chip, or if that chip
will
> work in another device, let alone with another carrier.
> 
> When my mother/brother/friend in the US wants to buy a phone, they are
> very likely to go to one or two cell phone outlet stores, RTFMA, and
see
> a plethora of plans with minutes and calling circles and
> free-after-x-o'clock.  They will not be able to reasonably compare
these
> to each other without performing sophisticated systems analysis on the
> fly.  They will and do sign up for 2 year contracts _and/or_ locked
> devices.
> 
> This by the way, makes my job (creating mobile content) more
difficult,
> so I have both the philosphical and selfish professional incentives to
> try to both educate the general public and solve the core problem as I
> see it, which is a sea of proprietary devices that have lousy software
> and worse user interfaces.
> 
> How'd I do? Still childish boring bullshit?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn
> Rutledge
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 12:51 PM
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> phones.)
> 
> SIMs are great - I don't like SIM-free phones like Verizon ones that
> require somebody at Verizon to switch the service to a different
> phone.  With GSM you just switch the SIM yourself.  Of course it would
> also be nice to be able to use different devices without having to
>

RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[Sam Kome]

> companies involved, the group that has the most to gain from OpenMoko
> are the endusers. Worse the powerusers, which are a bad deal for the
> networks anyway. I do compare plans, and I tend to use what I buy.)


I agree that users will benefit. I don't think most of them know it.
But to your point - there's a big upside for carriers.

Most of the bigger US carriers make incremental income by selling
'content' (music, apps, games) to their subscribers. They make quite a
bit of money with this.  

These carriers, _especially_ those most involved in creating walled
gardens (which indirectly implies most likely to lock)  will save money
and hasten to market value-added content by promoting open platforms.
The prevalence of tweaked software and crippled phones is detrimental to
content development: more developer hours on the front end, and more
testing on the back.  It's all slower and more expensive than it needs
to be.

Furthermore usability tests show that consumers are very often not
willing or able to learn and relearn the software quirks (some OS, some
app) that stand between them and that juicy game or application the
carrier's mobile storefront wants to sell.  So the expensive development
process creates poor conversion rates.  The carriers can do this math.


> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn
> Rutledge
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 12:51 PM
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> phones.)
> 
> SIMs are great - I don't like SIM-free phones like Verizon ones that
> require somebody at Verizon to switch the service to a different
> phone.  With GSM you just switch the SIM yourself.  Of course it would
> also be nice to be able to use different devices without having to
> physically switch the SIM (like use the GPRS connection in a laptop or
> PDA).  Anyway "SIM-free" is misleading as you are using it, because
> you are actually complaining about locked phones that will only work
> on one network.   And BTW it's not so hard to buy new unlocked phones
> on the net if you are willing to pay unsubsidized prices for them.
> 
> As for Jobs, I think he negotiated a lot of unique stuff that cannot
> typically be negotiated with a carrier.  It's too bad the phone still
> costs $500-600 even with a contract.  Makes me wonder what the real
> manufacturing cost is; is the hardware that super-duper or are they
> just wanting to have even better margins than they get on ipods?
> 
> On 2/26/07, Sam Kome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We should paper the world with (something like) this rant ahead of
the
> wide release of Neo1973.
> >
> > The fettered masses really don't get it yet.
> >
> >
> >
> > Covers 8 myths which drive folks to buy locked phones and/or 2yr
> contracts:
> >
> >
>
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/Its_time_to_buy_SIM-free_ph
> ones.php
> >
> >
> >
> > "How would Apple fans react if the latest Mac computer was
exclusively
> locked to a particular ISP, was only available to people who live in
> that ISP's service area, and people had to sign up to a 2 year
contract
> with that ISP? The Apple fans would be mad as hell, so why on earth
are
> they having to put up with exactly the same restrictions on a
portable,
> pocket-sized Mac computer called the iPhone?"
> >
> >
> >
> > "How is it that Finland, a poorer, lower-density country without
phone
> contracts, and with a law banning locked phones, developed far better
> phone coverage than America, the land of locked phones and 2 year
> contracts?"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sam Kome
> >  UX Team Member
> >
> >  www.motricity.com
> >  view corporate video
> >
> >
> >
> > NOTICE: This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information
of
> Motricity.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution
is
> prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
> sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
> > ___
> > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ___
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/communi

Re: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[Andreas Kostyrka]

* Sam Kome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070226 21:20]:
> > companies involved, the group that has the most to gain from OpenMoko
> > are the endusers. Worse the powerusers, which are a bad deal for the
> > networks anyway. I do compare plans, and I tend to use what I buy.)
> 
> 
> I agree that users will benefit. I don't think most of them know it.
> But to your point - there's a big upside for carriers.

The problem is manyfold:

a) corporate view points can be quite twisted for no reason.
b) carriers in many countries overpaid for the 3G licenses, and are
now in the bad situation that they are hardpressed to show any profits.
c) 3G means fast data connection, but only for a small number of users
=> these means that the carriers are in the bad situation of cable
internet providers, it's just worse for them. ;)

Andreas

___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Dean...

Its been a while since I looked, but I do stand corrected. The Disney plan
indeed launched last June.

The Disney plan is not, however prepaid, and worse, it is Disney, the folks
who bought and paid for our Sonny Bono Copyright Tem Extension Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

Which, of course, puts them on my "List".

Thanks again.

Alan


Original Message:
-
From: Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:35:21 -0500
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
phones.)


> 
> As a parent, one of my great angers with the cellular industry is that
> NO-ONE has offered a pre-paid plan that limits the child's monthly use
of
> the air-time resource by cutting it off once the minute limit is
exceeded
> for the month.  Calls FROM and TO the parent account would still go
through
> and be billed to the parent account.


Alan,
Totally incorrect, this was one of the main themes behind the Disney
MVNO and I also think Verizon or cingular have this option as well (I
know I saw a tv ad for one of them a few months ago but cant remember
which one)

 

Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1-212-203-4357 Ph
+1-917-207-3420 Mb
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 2:27 PM
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
phones.)
> 
> Sam...
> 
> Thanks for posting that link.  A great write up on the "Fundamentally
> Immoral" business practices in the cellullar communications industry
today.
> 
> What I expect from the "Operators" or "Carriers" (depending on which
oceans
> are nearby) is that they cease and desist using obfuscation and
bundling to
> hide the true cost of their services.  Ala-carte pricing that can be
> compared business to business.
> 
> Another Mini-Rant of my own:
> 
> Cell Plans That Help Parents Teach Responsibility
> 
> As a parent, one of my great angers with the cellular industry is that
> NO-ONE has offered a pre-paid plan that limits the child's monthly use
of
> the air-time resource by cutting it off once the minute limit is
exceeded
> for the month.  Calls FROM and TO the parent account would still go
through
> and be billed to the parent account.
> 
> But the cell industry in not interested in what is best for Society as
a
> whole, namely  young people who can demonstrate the ability to
conserve and
> manage resources.  Thanks for being such good citizens, guys. (<<
Sarcasm)
> 
> Alan McSwain
> 
> Original Message:
> -------------
> From: Sam Kome [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:18:59 -0500
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> phones.)
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the article I linked to really clearly covers all of the
> issues presented in the email responses.  The price subsidies, the
> locked/unlocked, the SIM buying, the phone w/o SIM buying, etc.
> 
> That's why I brought it to this group, because I respect the
> intelligence of the folks here, and I think they care about furthering
> the efficacy and usability of mobile computing and communication.
> 
> I took it for granted that everyone on the list, including myself,
knows
> the difference between T/CDMA (also available with SIMs, but
nevermind)
> and GSM devices in terms of subscriber identity management.
> 
> I _don't_ take for granted that anyone not working in or around the
cell
> phone industry can even spell SIM, let alone understand the
implications
> of whether or not their phone has a removable chip, or if that chip
will
> work in another device, let alone with another carrier.
> 
> When my mother/brother/friend in the US wants to buy a phone, they are
> very likely to go to one or two cell phone outlet stores, RTFMA, and
see
> a plethora of plans with minutes and calling circles and
> free-after-x-o'clock.  They will not be able to reasonably compare
these
> to each other without performing sophisticated systems analysis on the
> fly.  They will and do sign up for 2 year contracts _and/or_ locked
> devices.
> 
> This by the way, makes my job (creating mobile content) more
difficult,
> so I have both the philosphical and selfish professional incentives to
> try to both educate the general public and solve the core problem as I
> see it, which is a sea of proprietary devices that have lousy software
> and worse user interfaces.
> 
> How'd I do? Still childish bo

RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[Dean Collins]

Took 4 minutes of googling to find both Cingular and Verizon have kids
phones and restricted access plans.

Stop your bitching and go save the world.






Cingular's FireFly phone has buttons for preprogrammed phone numbers for
Mom and Dad, along with a button for 911 emergencies. Up to 20
additional numbers can also be programmed into the phone. Verizon's Migo
phone from LG also offers a dedicated emergency button, along with four
buttons that parents can program.

Even though the big carriers' services and phones don't match the
functionality of newcomer Disney Mobile, they still may have an edge
over Disney. For one, most parents who'd even consider buying a cell
phone for their kids are already customers of one of the big cell phone
companies. It might be easier and more cost-effective for them to wait
for new features to be added to their current provider's packages.


Limits on kids 

Parents can designate the times when a kid can call particular numbers
or play games. With TicTalk, Mom and Dad can also limit the number of
minutes for calls to certain numbers - say to a best friend. 

As with Firefly, the phone operates on the GSM cellular network. For
some reason, the unit I had never properly updated the time. TicTalk
costs $99, plus a $10 activation fee. An hour of prepaid talk is $15.
The phone is available online now and in stores by year's end.


 

Regards,

Dean Collins


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 6:27 PM
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
phones.)
> 
> Dean...
> 
> Its been a while since I looked, but I do stand corrected. The Disney
plan
> indeed launched last June.
> 
> The Disney plan is not, however prepaid, and worse, it is Disney, the
folks
> who bought and paid for our Sonny Bono Copyright Tem Extension Act.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
> 
> Which, of course, puts them on my "List".
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> Original Message:
> -
> From: Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:35:21 -0500
> To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> phones.)
> 
> 
> >
> > As a parent, one of my great angers with the cellular industry is
that
> > NO-ONE has offered a pre-paid plan that limits the child's monthly
use
> of
> > the air-time resource by cutting it off once the minute limit is
> exceeded
> > for the month.  Calls FROM and TO the parent account would still go
> through
> > and be billed to the parent account.
> 
> 
> Alan,
> Totally incorrect, this was one of the main themes behind the Disney
> MVNO and I also think Verizon or cingular have this option as well (I
> know I saw a tv ad for one of them a few months ago but cant remember
> which one)
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dean Collins
> Cognation Pty Ltd
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> +1-212-203-4357 Ph
> +1-917-207-3420 Mb
> +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 2:27 PM
> > To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> > Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> phones.)
> >
> > Sam...
> >
> > Thanks for posting that link.  A great write up on the
"Fundamentally
> > Immoral" business practices in the cellullar communications industry
> today.
> >
> > What I expect from the "Operators" or "Carriers" (depending on which
> oceans
> > are nearby) is that they cease and desist using obfuscation and
> bundling to
> > hide the true cost of their services.  Ala-carte pricing that can be
> > compared business to business.
> >
> > Another Mini-Rant of my own:
> >
> > Cell Plans That Help Parents Teach Responsibility
> >
> > As a parent, one of my great angers with the cellular industry is
that
> > NO-ONE has offered a pre-paid plan that limits the child's monthly
use
> of
> > the air-time resource by cutting it off once the minute limit is
> exceeded
> > for the month.  Calls FROM and TO the parent account would still go
> through
> > and be billed to the parent account.
> >
> > But the cell industry in not interested in what is best for Society
as
> a
> > whole, namely  young people who can demonstrate the ability to
> conserve and
>

Re: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free phones.)

[Andreas Kostyrka]

when we are at it, limiting calls to only certain numbers is a
standard GSM feature, it's just seldom used, as most people just
forget their PIN2 ;)

Andreas

* Dean Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070227 10:41]:
> Took 4 minutes of googling to find both Cingular and Verizon have kids
> phones and restricted access plans.
> 
> Stop your bitching and go save the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cingular's FireFly phone has buttons for preprogrammed phone numbers for
> Mom and Dad, along with a button for 911 emergencies. Up to 20
> additional numbers can also be programmed into the phone. Verizon's Migo
> phone from LG also offers a dedicated emergency button, along with four
> buttons that parents can program.
> 
> Even though the big carriers' services and phones don't match the
> functionality of newcomer Disney Mobile, they still may have an edge
> over Disney. For one, most parents who'd even consider buying a cell
> phone for their kids are already customers of one of the big cell phone
> companies. It might be easier and more cost-effective for them to wait
> for new features to be added to their current provider's packages.
> 
> 
> Limits on kids 
> 
> Parents can designate the times when a kid can call particular numbers
> or play games. With TicTalk, Mom and Dad can also limit the number of
> minutes for calls to certain numbers - say to a best friend. 
> 
> As with Firefly, the phone operates on the GSM cellular network. For
> some reason, the unit I had never properly updated the time. TicTalk
> costs $99, plus a $10 activation fee. An hour of prepaid talk is $15.
> The phone is available online now and in stores by year's end.
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dean Collins
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 6:27 PM
> > To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> > Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> phones.)
> > 
> > Dean...
> > 
> > Its been a while since I looked, but I do stand corrected. The Disney
> plan
> > indeed launched last June.
> > 
> > The Disney plan is not, however prepaid, and worse, it is Disney, the
> folks
> > who bought and paid for our Sonny Bono Copyright Tem Extension Act.
> > 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
> > 
> > Which, of course, puts them on my "List".
> > 
> > Thanks again.
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> > Original Message:
> > -
> > From: Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:35:21 -0500
> > To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> > Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> > phones.)
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > As a parent, one of my great angers with the cellular industry is
> that
> > > NO-ONE has offered a pre-paid plan that limits the child's monthly
> use
> > of
> > > the air-time resource by cutting it off once the minute limit is
> > exceeded
> > > for the month.  Calls FROM and TO the parent account would still go
> > through
> > > and be billed to the parent account.
> > 
> > 
> > Alan,
> > Totally incorrect, this was one of the main themes behind the Disney
> > MVNO and I also think Verizon or cingular have this option as well (I
> > know I saw a tv ad for one of them a few months ago but cant remember
> > which one)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Dean Collins
> > Cognation Pty Ltd
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > +1-212-203-4357 Ph
> > +1-917-207-3420 Mb
> > +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community-
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 2:27 PM
> > > To: community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > Subject: RE: Locked phones (was Re: A timely rant: Time for SIM-free
> > phones.)
> > >
> > > Sam...
> > >
> > > Thanks for posting that link.  A great write up on the
> "Fundamentally
> > > Immoral" business practices in the cellullar communications industry
> > today.
> > >
> > > What I expect from the "Operators" or "Carriers" (depending on which
> > oceans
> > > are nearby) is that they cease and desist using obfuscation and
&g