Re: Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Lionel Broche]

ok, i will see what I can do once I have the phone and my reprap is working
:)

On 17 March 2012 18:03, Adam Bogacki  wrote:

>  Not that I know of, but I would volunteer to test it.
>
>  :-)
>
> Adam
>
> adam.boga...@clear.net.nz
>
>
> On -9/01/37 07:59, Lionel Broche wrote:
>
> just adding my two pence:
> it may not satisfy every users, but has any company ever made a
> forearm-attached casing? some phone that you could clip on your left
> forearm, so that the keyboard and the screeen would be steady while your
> right arm writes down. Plus, there would be no danger of stealing.
>
> Lionel
>
> On 15 March 2012 23:10, EdorFaus  wrote:
>
>> On 03/16/2012 12:00 AM, EdorFaus wrote:
>>
>>> clip it onto the side with the USB port
>>>
>>
>>   use a standard USB keyboard module
>>>
>>
>>  Aw, man... I just got this odd image in my head of a full-size standard
>> qwerty keyboard with an angled docking port on the top - kinda like the
>> iPod docks in some stereo systems - meant for the GTA0x...
>>
>> Not really practical for carrying around in any way, but at least you can
>> avoid cables when using it at home... unless you want to charge it or
>> connect it to the LAN or something at the same time of course. :P
>>
>>
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Re: Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Adam Bogacki]

Not that I know of, but I would volunteer to test it.

:-)

Adam

adam.boga...@clear.net.nz

On -9/01/37 07:59, Lionel Broche wrote:
> just adding my two pence:
> it may not satisfy every users, but has any company ever made a
> forearm-attached casing? some phone that you could clip on your left
> forearm, so that the keyboard and the screeen would be steady while
> your right arm writes down. Plus, there would be no danger of stealing.
>
> Lionel
>
> On 15 March 2012 23:10, EdorFaus  > wrote:
>
> On 03/16/2012 12:00 AM, EdorFaus wrote:
>
> clip it onto the side with the USB port
>
>
> use a standard USB keyboard module
>
>
> Aw, man... I just got this odd image in my head of a full-size
> standard qwerty keyboard with an angled docking port on the top -
> kinda like the iPod docks in some stereo systems - meant for the
> GTA0x...
>
> Not really practical for carrying around in any way, but at least
> you can avoid cables when using it at home... unless you want to
> charge it or connect it to the LAN or something at the same time
> of course. :P
>
>
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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Lionel Broche]

just adding my two pence:
it may not satisfy every users, but has any company ever made a
forearm-attached casing? some phone that you could clip on your left
forearm, so that the keyboard and the screeen would be steady while your
right arm writes down. Plus, there would be no danger of stealing.

Lionel

On 15 March 2012 23:10, EdorFaus  wrote:

> On 03/16/2012 12:00 AM, EdorFaus wrote:
>
>> clip it onto the side with the USB port
>>
>
>  use a standard USB keyboard module
>>
>
> Aw, man... I just got this odd image in my head of a full-size standard
> qwerty keyboard with an angled docking port on the top - kinda like the
> iPod docks in some stereo systems - meant for the GTA0x...
>
> Not really practical for carrying around in any way, but at least you can
> avoid cables when using it at home... unless you want to charge it or
> connect it to the LAN or something at the same time of course. :P
>
>
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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[EdorFaus]

On 03/16/2012 12:00 AM, EdorFaus wrote:

clip it onto the side with the USB port



use a standard USB keyboard module


Aw, man... I just got this odd image in my head of a full-size standard 
qwerty keyboard with an angled docking port on the top - kinda like the 
iPod docks in some stereo systems - meant for the GTA0x...


Not really practical for carrying around in any way, but at least you 
can avoid cables when using it at home... unless you want to charge it 
or connect it to the LAN or something at the same time of course. :P


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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[EdorFaus]

On 03/15/2012 01:41 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:

Am 15.03.2012 um 12:09 schrieb Gennady Kupava:

This is because if you using one hand to hold phone, you have one one
hand free. Holding and using keyboard with one hand is not possible.


And why not add some hooks or joints so that you can clip together both
parts after detaching them?


Well, if we're detaching the keyboard from the back side and then 
clipping them back together for use anyway - is there a good reason we 
can't just clip it onto the side with the USB port, and use that port 
for power and keyboard data?


That way we wouldn't need bluetooth or a battery, nor have to connect 
new cables to the main board.


Additionally, it would make it easier for people who prefer a thinner 
phone and don't mind carrying extra devices, as they can use the 
standard back cover and still be able to connect this keyboard.


Also, if we use a standard USB keyboard module (I don't know if that's 
feasible), it could be tested and used with other PCs too...


Of course, it does have a downside - can't use the USB port while the 
keyboard is connected (unless it includes a hub and/or charger 
passthrough), and is arguably riskier wrt. destroying the USB port if 
you drop the phone with the keyboard connected...


--
Regards,
Frode Austvik

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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Neil Jerram]

"Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller"  writes:

> Now comes the key idea: having a shapeways printed case makes
> it possible to think about a keyboard built into a replacement battery
> cover. It makes it a little thicker than normal, but you can detach it
> and use it as a keyboard.

This sounds interesting.  I can imagine that my fingers might even get
used to using such a keyboard without detaching it from the back.

  Neil

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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Kai Lüke]

Hey,
I would like to have it rather swinging out than sliding. Then you could
lock it at ca. 180° (with a bar or something) and by using the full back
area of the case, it would be big enough for a expanded layout.
As connector I would like USB more than bluetooth, but don't know how
thin a cable can be.
Regards,
Kai

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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Martin Jansa]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 09:56:01AM -0400, Gerald A wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Martin Jansa wrote:
> 
> > I fully agree on this, I have bought smaller keyboard (with USB cable)
> > for freerunner and I don't use it very much, because as you said it's
> > not really usable e.g. while sitting in train and trying to balance
> > phone + keyboard on your lap. So in trains I'm using n900 only and
> > om-gta02 is sitting at home always connected to desktop (with real
> > keyboard).
> >
> 
> On this, I respectfully disagree. When I had my Neo in full flight, I often
> used a Bluetooth keyboard to do longer sessions. For short sessions, I'd
> use the stylus and the tiny onscreen keyboard.
> 
> I actually tried a variety of Bluetooth keyboards, and yes, balancing them
> can be a pain, especially in a moving platform like a train. I found a good
> way to situate things, with my backpack as a support for the Neo, and thus
> only having to hang onto the keyboard on a subway train, which has lots of
> motion. Is it ideal? No. Would having a cradle or some sort of attachment
> been better? Probably, but it wasn't useless.

Yes it's better than onscreen keyboard but being able to attach it to
phone is the important part at least for me. (I was carying that keyboard 
in original paper box and was using top cover to hold my freerunner - but 
that's still far from ideal).

Something like double battery cover with some rails for keyboard sliding 
out from it would be nice (still holding one piece of hw - even if it
makes whole phone extra 1cm thick). It doesn't need to be in "main" body 
and it would also add option to decide to go out with just classic cover 
and smaller "case".

> I wrote e-mails, reports, and diary entries in this way, and I liked it a
> lot -- as the onscreen keyboard is handy but not functional. Now, if the
> keyboard was big enough for me to do work, but also portable, that would be
> fantastic.
> 
> I saw a smaller "Bluetooth" keyboard yesterday ... which is about the size
> of an average phone. The keys were way too small for fingers, so I'm
> guessing it is aimed at the "thumb" market, which might be a fit for some
> but wouldn't help me.

Cheers,

-- 
Martin 'JaMa' Jansa jabber: martin.ja...@gmail.com


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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Gerald A]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Martin Jansa wrote:

> I fully agree on this, I have bought smaller keyboard (with USB cable)
> for freerunner and I don't use it very much, because as you said it's
> not really usable e.g. while sitting in train and trying to balance
> phone + keyboard on your lap. So in trains I'm using n900 only and
> om-gta02 is sitting at home always connected to desktop (with real
> keyboard).
>

On this, I respectfully disagree. When I had my Neo in full flight, I often
used a Bluetooth keyboard to do longer sessions. For short sessions, I'd
use the stylus and the tiny onscreen keyboard.

I actually tried a variety of Bluetooth keyboards, and yes, balancing them
can be a pain, especially in a moving platform like a train. I found a good
way to situate things, with my backpack as a support for the Neo, and thus
only having to hang onto the keyboard on a subway train, which has lots of
motion. Is it ideal? No. Would having a cradle or some sort of attachment
been better? Probably, but it wasn't useless.

I wrote e-mails, reports, and diary entries in this way, and I liked it a
lot -- as the onscreen keyboard is handy but not functional. Now, if the
keyboard was big enough for me to do work, but also portable, that would be
fantastic.

I saw a smaller "Bluetooth" keyboard yesterday ... which is about the size
of an average phone. The keys were way too small for fingers, so I'm
guessing it is aimed at the "thumb" market, which might be a fit for some
but wouldn't help me.

Thanks,
Gerald
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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Gennady Kupava]

On Thu, 2012-03-15 at 13:41 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:

> And why not add some hooks or joints so that you can clip together both
> parts after detaching them?

What would be ok for me!

But may be slider is not so complex? Put the battery and sim into lower
part, some rails and it is here. Of course i am completely not competent
in this kind of design. Hope it doesn't sound too stupid :)

Gennady


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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 15.03.2012 um 13:29 schrieb Martin Jansa:

> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 03:09:09PM +0400, Gennady Kupava wrote:
>> Hi, Nicolaus,
>> 
>> Actually detached keyboard is almost useless for phone. It is not
>> possible to use it any conditions expect then phone lays on some surface
>> and you not holding it.
>> 
>> This is because if you using one hand to hold phone, you have one one
>> hand free. Holding and using keyboard with one hand is not possible.
>> 
>> Before implementing such detached keyboard, buy bluetooth one in shop
>> and try it - you'll find it completely useless :)
> 
> I fully agree on this, I have bought smaller keyboard (with USB cable)
> for freerunner and I don't use it very much, because as you said it's
> not really usable e.g. while sitting in train and trying to balance
> phone + keyboard on your lap. So in trains I'm using n900 only and
> om-gta02 is sitting at home always connected to desktop (with real
> keyboard).
> 
>> So, keyboard on phone should be build-in and usable... and i don't know
>> how should look something better than keyboard on n900.
> 
> I don't have hands-on experience but keyboard on pictures of Motorola Droid 4
> looks even better then n900 keyboard, mostly because of extra row.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/10/motorola-droid-4-review/

Yes, but do you think it does help to dream about the best keyboards
made by (formerly?) big companies? They will most likely not do anything
for our GTA02/04.

So we have to roll up our own sleeves...

>> If gta04 have hw keyboard, i buy it immediately as a every-day phone.
>> Linux has excellent set of command-line tools and it's a crime not to
>> have a hw keyboard on linux device.
> 
> Agreed, that's why I also prefer more common layout with enough keys to
> map also '/', '|' etc. somewhere close to fingers.

That appears to be easily done when printing key caps at Shapeways and
making the keymap ourselves (open source).

Nikolaus


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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 15.03.2012 um 12:09 schrieb Gennady Kupava:

> Hi, Nicolaus,
> 
> Actually detached keyboard is almost useless for phone. It is not

Well, the idea is not a detached keyboard but a detachable (so that
it simplifies mechanical construction).

> possible to use it any conditions expect then phone lays on some surface
> and you not holding it.
> 
> This is because if you using one hand to hold phone, you have one one
> hand free. Holding and using keyboard with one hand is not possible.

And why not add some hooks or joints so that you can clip together both
parts after detaching them?

> Before implementing such detached keyboard, buy bluetooth one in shop
> and try it - you'll find it completely useless :)

I have some and just don't like the feeling of the keys.

> So, keyboard on phone should be build-in and usable... and i don't know
> how should look something better than keyboard on n900.

Well, we can't build a n900 keyboard... But we can work on
something that comes closer than no keyboard at all.

> If gta04 have hw keyboard, i buy it immediately as a every-day phone.
> Linux has excellent set of command-line tools and it's a crime not to
> have a hw keyboard on linux device.

This are all good arguments to discuss with the team. Maybe someone
suddently has the inspiration.

Nikolaus


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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Martin Jansa]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 03:09:09PM +0400, Gennady Kupava wrote:
> Hi, Nicolaus,
> 
> Actually detached keyboard is almost useless for phone. It is not
> possible to use it any conditions expect then phone lays on some surface
> and you not holding it.
> 
> This is because if you using one hand to hold phone, you have one one
> hand free. Holding and using keyboard with one hand is not possible.
> 
> Before implementing such detached keyboard, buy bluetooth one in shop
> and try it - you'll find it completely useless :)

I fully agree on this, I have bought smaller keyboard (with USB cable)
for freerunner and I don't use it very much, because as you said it's
not really usable e.g. while sitting in train and trying to balance
phone + keyboard on your lap. So in trains I'm using n900 only and
om-gta02 is sitting at home always connected to desktop (with real
keyboard).

> So, keyboard on phone should be build-in and usable... and i don't know
> how should look something better than keyboard on n900.

I don't have hands-on experience but keyboard on pictures of Motorola Droid 4
looks even better then n900 keyboard, mostly because of extra row.
 
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/10/motorola-droid-4-review/

> If gta04 have hw keyboard, i buy it immediately as a every-day phone.
> Linux has excellent set of command-line tools and it's a crime not to
> have a hw keyboard on linux device.

Agreed, that's why I also prefer more common layout with enough keys to
map also '/', '|' etc. somewhere close to fingers.

Cheers,

-- 
Martin 'JaMa' Jansa jabber: martin.ja...@gmail.com


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Re: [Gta04-owner] Keyboard for GTA04

[Gennady Kupava]

Hi, Nicolaus,

Actually detached keyboard is almost useless for phone. It is not
possible to use it any conditions expect then phone lays on some surface
and you not holding it.

This is because if you using one hand to hold phone, you have one one
hand free. Holding and using keyboard with one hand is not possible.

Before implementing such detached keyboard, buy bluetooth one in shop
and try it - you'll find it completely useless :)

So, keyboard on phone should be build-in and usable... and i don't know
how should look something better than keyboard on n900.

If gta04 have hw keyboard, i buy it immediately as a every-day phone.
Linux has excellent set of command-line tools and it's a crime not to
have a hw keyboard on linux device.

Gennady.


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