Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:58:26 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>> I was wondering... Why not adding a special option under dictionaries 
>> not to use a dictionary at all and disabling the spell check while 
>> writing? I know that the same can do editing the keyboards file, but you 
>> can figure that this is quite annoying if you'd like to have more 
>> keyboard layouts and you should "rewrite" them not to use the spell 
>> check correction.
> 
> just use the Terminal layout then. as such the dictionary lookup ALWAYS gives
> you exactly what you typed too as an option (even if you didn't hold and press
> to drag and select in zoom mode). it may not be listed as the most likely 
> thing
> - so press the dict button, but it will LEARN so after you have entered the
> things you do use once - they will turn up.

Yes, I know but it's not as rapid as writing directly each word...

PS: BTW looking at my ~/.e/e/dicts-dynamic there are some words that are 
repeated more time (and they have a different number of occurrences too).

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:58:26 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > the illume keyboard is the one with "full qwerty" and no fancy graphics..
> > also able to have fancy graphics just by a theme changes and can also do
> > prediction (correction) or no correction as desired (the terminal keyboard
> > layout basically disabled any dictionary lookup/correction as it sends keys
> > directly as pressed and doesn't compose in the buffer, but the default
> > layout does compose words and thus use whatever dictionary you have
> > selected). it supports multiple dictionaries at the same time (just select
> > the system one) a personal dictionary (where anything you type gets added
> > in and thus the keyboard learns your typing habits), and also supports
> > multiple keyboard layouts (where you just can edit a .kbd data file to
> > define a new keyboard layout and add extra keys or remove them, shuffle
> > them around etc.)
> 
> I was wondering... Why not adding a special option under dictionaries 
> not to use a dictionary at all and disabling the spell check while 
> writing? I know that the same can do editing the keyboards file, but you 
> can figure that this is quite annoying if you'd like to have more 
> keyboard layouts and you should "rewrite" them not to use the spell 
> check correction.

just use the Terminal layout then. as such the dictionary lookup ALWAYS gives
you exactly what you typed too as an option (even if you didn't hold and press
to drag and select in zoom mode). it may not be listed as the most likely thing
- so press the dict button, but it will LEARN so after you have entered the
things you do use once - they will turn up.


-- 
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The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> the illume keyboard is the one with "full qwerty" and no fancy graphics.. also
> able to have fancy graphics just by a theme changes and can also do prediction
> (correction) or no correction as desired (the terminal keyboard layout
> basically disabled any dictionary lookup/correction as it sends keys directly 
> as
> pressed and doesn't compose in the buffer, but the default layout does compose
> words and thus use whatever dictionary you have selected). it supports 
> multiple
> dictionaries at the same time (just select the system one) a personal
> dictionary (where anything you type gets added in and thus the keyboard learns
> your typing habits), and also supports multiple keyboard layouts (where you
> just can edit a .kbd data file to define a new keyboard layout and add extra
> keys or remove them, shuffle them around etc.)

I was wondering... Why not adding a special option under dictionaries 
not to use a dictionary at all and disabling the spell check while 
writing? I know that the same can do editing the keyboards file, but you 
can figure that this is quite annoying if you'd like to have more 
keyboard layouts and you should "rewrite" them not to use the spell 
check correction.

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: ASU keyboards

[Yorick Moko]

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Yorick Moko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I did:
> 1. opkg install illume-config-illume (it's in testing)
> 2. opkg install illume-config (I already had that one)
> 3. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
> 4. added export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1 in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89qtopia
> 3. reboot
>
> result:
> no keyboard :)
> the qwerty button still is there but does nothing when pressed,
> and no keyboard auto-pops-up
>
> somebody on IRC also had this same problem
>

I also installed
[   ] illume-keyboards-default_0.0+svnr35693-r13_all.ipk
 29-Aug-2008 07:32  1.5K
[   ] illume-keyboards-numbers_0.0+svnr35693-r13_all.ipk
 29-Aug-2008 07:32  1.6K
[   ] illume-keyboards-terminal_0.0+svnr35693-r13_all.ipk
 29-Aug-2008 07:32  2.0K

which did not make the keyboards appear

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Re: ASU keyboards

[Yorick Moko]

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 3:07 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:56:34 +0800 John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:59:53AM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
>> >
>> > ok. i suck. i have screwed this defsault_profile monkey. 1 last time for 
>> > the
>> > dummies (i.e. - me).
>> >
>> > 1. opkg install illume-config-illume (get illume's config panel and illume
>> > keyboard by default - this should be available)
>> > 2. opkg install illume-config (get qwery button)
>> > 2. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
>> > (switch to the illume profile from asu)
>> > 3. reboot (easiest way to get your x session going again as the
>> > default_profile is a command-line hack). :)
>> >
>> > that should do it!

I did:
1. opkg install illume-config-illume (it's in testing)
2. opkg install illume-config (I already had that one)
3. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
4. added export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1 in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89qtopia
3. reboot

result:
no keyboard :)
the qwerty button still is there but does nothing when pressed,
and no keyboard auto-pops-up

somebody on IRC also had this same problem

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Re: ASU keyboards

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:56:34 +0800 John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:59:53AM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > 
> > ok. i suck. i have screwed this defsault_profile monkey. 1 last time for the
> > dummies (i.e. - me).
> > 
> > 1. opkg install illume-config-illume (get illume's config panel and illume
> > keyboard by default - this should be available)
> > 2. opkg install illume-config (get qwery button)
> > 2. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
> > (switch to the illume profile from asu)
> > 3. reboot (easiest way to get your x session going again as the
> > default_profile is a command-line hack). :)
> > 
> > that should do it! 
> > 
> 
> hey raster, i ported these stuffs to om.dev, so they should show up in
> the testing repo soon.  however, a few problems:
> 
> * the qpe keyboard will appear again and replace the illume default
>   after any reload operation, e.g. added a new desktop file.  (showing
>   a small wheel on the bottom right of screen)

yes. you ALSO need to go add the export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1 to the
qtopia launch script (as per other threads) i was assuming people had done that
already :)

> * same thing will happen if i do "killall -hup enlightenment"
> 
> * a reboot will put illume kbd back

i know - qpe is still creating its own. it needs to be told to turn it off with
the environment variable. there isn't any other way to do it right now.

> efl rev: 35661
> illume rev: 35693
> 
> any idea ?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> John


-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: ASU keyboards

[John Lee]

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:59:53AM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> 
> ok. i suck. i have screwed this defsault_profile monkey. 1 last time for the
> dummies (i.e. - me).
> 
> 1. opkg install illume-config-illume (get illume's config panel and illume
> keyboard by default - this should be available)
> 2. opkg install illume-config (get qwery button)
> 2. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
> (switch to the illume profile from asu)
> 3. reboot (easiest way to get your x session going again as the 
> default_profile
> is a command-line hack). :)
> 
> that should do it! 
> 

hey raster, i ported these stuffs to om.dev, so they should show up in
the testing repo soon.  however, a few problems:

* the qpe keyboard will appear again and replace the illume default
  after any reload operation, e.g. added a new desktop file.  (showing
  a small wheel on the bottom right of screen)

* same thing will happen if i do "killall -hup enlightenment"

* a reboot will put illume kbd back

efl rev: 35661
illume rev: 35693

any idea ?


Regards,
John

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Re: ASU keyboards

[Tom Yates]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Carsten Haitzler wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:03:47 +0100 (BST) Tom Yates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
>> getting rid of the qtopia keyboard in favour of a full, non-predictive 
>> qwerty keyboard is one of my fondest aims at the moment, so i'd 
>> appreciate any help you can give, and am happy to test stuff!
>
> then testing does not have the changes i've made in asu.dev - you'll 
> have to wait until they filter through.

thanks for the clarification, rasterman.  i'll keep an eye out for 
illume-config-illume turning up in the output of "opkg list".

until then, thanks for the suggestion, minh, i now have the matchbox 
keyboard working fine.


-- 

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Re: ASU keyboards

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:02:11 +0200 Minh Ha Duong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Hi Raster, and hi all,
> 
>   It's great news to learn that there should be an illume-config-illume 
> package that provides yours keyboard again. This is what we have all been 
> waiting for. But I second Tom's question: we would love to know more 
> precisely when and where "it should be available".

i don't know - i am not in charge of making it public. what i will do is work
on FSO in future and put all this stuff over that corner of the woods.

-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:03:47 +0100 (BST) Tom Yates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> 
> > ok. i suck. i have screwed this defsault_profile monkey. 1 last time for 
> > the dummies (i.e. - me).
> >
> > 1. opkg install illume-config-illume (get illume's config panel and 
> > illume keyboard by default - this should be available)
> 
> which repository or repositories should i have enabled to get 
> illume-config-illume?  i'm running 20080827-asu-stable-rootfs with not too 
> much in the way of modification (yet; i only got the phone on 26/8).  i'm 
> sorry if i've jumped in in the middle of the discussion and have missed an 
> important pre-requisite.
> 
> > 2. opkg install illume-config (get qwery button)
> 
> that works, yup, thanks.  didn't see a wrench, though, which i was vaguely 
> expecting; have i misunderstood other postings?
> 
> > 2. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > 
> > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile (switch to the illume profile from 
> > asu)
> 
> sadly, that's what my /etc/enlightenment/default_profile already has in 
> it.
> 
> > 3. reboot (easiest way to get your x session going again as the 
> > default_profile is a command-line hack). :)
> >
> > that should do it!
> 
> ummm, it didn't - i just lost the qwerty button, and still the same old 
> keyboard popped up when i entered (eg) terminal.
> 
> getting rid of the qtopia keyboard in favour of a full, non-predictive 
> qwerty keyboard is one of my fondest aims at the moment, so i'd appreciate 
> any help you can give, and am happy to test stuff!

then testing does not have the changes i've made in asu.dev - you'll have to
wait until they filter through.


-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:37:23 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>>> yup yup. don't worry - i understand why :) i speak several langauges myself
>>> (not italian - but i did study latin, and speak french, german, english,
>>> japanese, some usable level of portuguese). i definitely get the language
>>> issues - for both european and asian languages :) yes. the above would
>>> reduce dictionary size. it would make parsing it much harder.
>> I suspected this :/. I did hoped to be wrong...
> 
> i am thinking about this... i have some ideas that may improve this... this is
> my thought train:
> 
> right now format is either:
> word\n
> word2\n
> etc.
> 
> or:
> word 123\n
> word 23\n
> etc.
> (sorted case-insensitive).
> 
> the numbers are "frequency of use" so those used more will have more primary
> position in the match list
> 
> 1. add a line skip byte at the start of the line - means skipping to the next
> line will be much faster (just jump N bytes as per the byte - if line > 255
> bytes then byte-jump == 0 and skip the slow way until newline (shouldn't be 
> very
> common).
> 2. extend the line to be:
> 
> word NNN match1 match2 match3 ~suffix1 ~suffix2\n

Ok, but from the other side this kind of format wouldn't consider the 
frequency of use of subwords (words composed by the given suffix and a 
prefix); this, actually, is one of the good point of the current scheme.

> so now we have the ability to match and "append" a suffix. suffix is ~XXX and
> full replacement words are just listed. this should remain fast as i only
> "lookup" on the first word on the line that is the initial match - so it
> builds a list of candidates. the problem is that once you exceed the "base" it
> needs to dynamically build matches for all combinations of base + extension.
> also for full replacements (as in the last 2 lines) it needs to be able to
> match these as well, so they end up being full entries too. the real problem 
> is
> generating such a dictionary - i tried to keep the dict format so simple that
> it was trivial to generate. but it'd solve your problem.

Well, before of testing my heavy dictionary with illume, I hoped that it 
would have worked well, but I knew that all this redundancy could have 
caused a problem in parsing (both from the performance point of view and 
from the memory usage one).
I figure that this kind of implementation could help in these situations 
(that I don't think they're so uncommon, I guess that - at least for 
other Latin-derived languages - the dictionary file would be really much 
more greater than the ones in /usr/share/dict).

> anyway. if i am going to go expand the dictionary format, i really need to be
> careful. i kept it simple because i didn't want to solve the worlds dictionary
> problems - i did want to keep it basic but working. as best i can tell the OM
> userbase is still mainly western-speaking (yes - i know we have people here
> from asia! :) not forgetting! just looking at dealing with the majority 
> first!)
> 
> anyway... i am mulling this over. the byte-skip may solve some performance
> issues, but this means i now need a special dict generator tool. i was trying
> to avoid that :(

Yes I figured this. Maybe you could support multiple formats (the 
current scheme and the improved one). Majority wuldn't need a tool to 
generate the dict except "sort -f".

> as per above - your idea of having a list of suffixes lef me on
> the above path. i have a feeling it still isn't perfect, but it's an
> improvement. it means the dict now knows about prefix and suffix and so when u
> type the "root" of a word that is conjugated, the dict can even offer the
> conjugated forms as matches. that's good for western langauges

Yes, it is and then would be easier to predict (!= typo fix) too.


-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: ASU keyboards

[Fox Mulder]

I will try matchbox keyboard and the illume version this evening.
On 2007.2 i use the matchbox keyboard with a selfmade german layout with
all needed keys including the f-keys. I really loved this keyboard and
would be happy to use my keyboard.xml file in 2008.9. :)

Ciao,
 Rainer

Minh Ha Duong wrote:
> While we wait for The Rasterman to tell us Where and When we will find the 
> package for the One Keyboard To Rule Them All ;-) , why not use the matchbox 
> one like we did in 2007.2 just a few weeks ago ?
> 
> Here is a recipe, please let me know if it works for you:
> 
> 1. Get the qwerty button with   opkg install illume-config
> 
> 2. Hide the qtopia keyboard by manually adding the line
> export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1
> in the file   /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89qtopia
> 
> 3. Install the matchbox keyboard with
> opkg install matchbox-keyboard-applet
> opkg install matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod
> 
> 4. Restart X with  /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart
> 
> 5. Launch the matchbox keyboard daemon by clicking on the "Keyboard" icon 
> 
> I did not install the package   matchbox-keyboard-im   , I don't know what it 
> is for ?
> 
> Minh
> Minh HA-DUONG
> 
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Re: ASU keyboards

[Minh Ha Duong]

While we wait for The Rasterman to tell us Where and When we will find the 
package for the One Keyboard To Rule Them All ;-) , why not use the matchbox 
one like we did in 2007.2 just a few weeks ago ?

Here is a recipe, please let me know if it works for you:

1. Get the qwerty button with   opkg install illume-config

2. Hide the qtopia keyboard by manually adding the line
export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1
in the file   /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89qtopia

3. Install the matchbox keyboard with
opkg install matchbox-keyboard-applet
opkg install matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod

4. Restart X with  /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart

5. Launch the matchbox keyboard daemon by clicking on the "Keyboard" icon 

I did not install the package   matchbox-keyboard-im   , I don't know what it 
is for ?

Minh
Minh HA-DUONG

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Re: ASU keyboards

[Minh Ha Duong]

Hi Raster, and hi all,

  It's great news to learn that there should be an illume-config-illume 
package that provides yours keyboard again. This is what we have all been 
waiting for. But I second Tom's question: we would love to know more 
precisely when and where "it should be available".

Minh

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Re: ASU keyboards

[Tom Yates]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Carsten Haitzler wrote:

> ok. i suck. i have screwed this defsault_profile monkey. 1 last time for 
> the dummies (i.e. - me).
>
> 1. opkg install illume-config-illume (get illume's config panel and 
> illume keyboard by default - this should be available)

which repository or repositories should i have enabled to get 
illume-config-illume?  i'm running 20080827-asu-stable-rootfs with not too 
much in the way of modification (yet; i only got the phone on 26/8).  i'm 
sorry if i've jumped in in the middle of the discussion and have missed an 
important pre-requisite.

> 2. opkg install illume-config (get qwery button)

that works, yup, thanks.  didn't see a wrench, though, which i was vaguely 
expecting; have i misunderstood other postings?

> 2. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > 
> /etc/enlightenment/default_profile (switch to the illume profile from 
> asu)

sadly, that's what my /etc/enlightenment/default_profile already has in 
it.

> 3. reboot (easiest way to get your x session going again as the 
> default_profile is a command-line hack). :)
>
> that should do it!

ummm, it didn't - i just lost the qwerty button, and still the same old 
keyboard popped up when i entered (eg) terminal.

getting rid of the qtopia keyboard in favour of a full, non-predictive 
qwerty keyboard is one of my fondest aims at the moment, so i'd appreciate 
any help you can give, and am happy to test stuff!


-- 

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:37:23 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:12:59 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> >> Imho, a way to reduce the size would be allowing a rule to set suffix 
> >> and prefix (for composed words) that would reduce the dictionary size.
> >> So, for example, in my dictionary instead of using 50 lines for each 
> >> verb I would use only one per one; i.e.:
> >>
> >> Italian verb "parlare" (to talk) would be (not complete)
> >>   parl{o,i,a,iamo,ate,ano,avo,avi,ava,avamo,avate,avano,ai,asti,ò,ammo, \
> >>aste,arono,erò,erai,erà,eremo,erete,eranno,erei,eresti,erebbe, \
> >>eremmo,ereste,erebbero,ii,iamo,iate,ino,assi,asse,assimo, \
> >>assero,ino,ando,ante,ato,ata,ati}
> >>
> >> Italian noun "casa" (house) would be
> >>   cas{a,e}
> >>
> >> Italian adjective "libero" (free [as freedom]) would be
> >>   liber{a,i,o}
> > 
> > yup yup. don't worry - i understand why :) i speak several langauges myself
> > (not italian - but i did study latin, and speak french, german, english,
> > japanese, some usable level of portuguese). i definitely get the language
> > issues - for both european and asian languages :) yes. the above would
> > reduce dictionary size. it would make parsing it much harder.
> 
> I suspected this :/. I did hoped to be wrong...

i am thinking about this... i have some ideas that may improve this... this is
my thought train:

right now format is either:
word\n
word2\n
etc.

or:
word 123\n
word 23\n
etc.
(sorted case-insensitive).

the numbers are "frequency of use" so those used more will have more primary
position in the match list

1. add a line skip byte at the start of the line - means skipping to the next
line will be much faster (just jump N bytes as per the byte - if line > 255
bytes then byte-jump == 0 and skip the slow way until newline (shouldn't be very
common).
2. extend the line to be:

word NNN match1 match2 match3 ~suffix1 ~suffix2\n

i can't give you an italian example.. but this SHOULD work for italian, french,
german, spanish etc.. example in german:

lauf 1 ~e ~en ~st ~t\n
blod 1 blöd\n
bloss 1 bloß\n
etc.

so now we have the ability to match and "append" a suffix. suffix is ~XXX and
full replacement words are just listed. this should remain fast as i only
"lookup" on the first word on the line that is the initial match - so it
builds a list of candidates. the problem is that once you exceed the "base" it
needs to dynamically build matches for all combinations of base + extension.
also for full replacements (as in the last 2 lines) it needs to be able to
match these as well, so they end up being full entries too. the real problem is
generating such a dictionary - i tried to keep the dict format so simple that
it was trivial to generate. but it'd solve your problem. the cool bit is.. this
ALSO solves japanese and chinese... (romanji and pinyin - and even kanna input)
so for example:

sakana 1 魚 さかな　肴　坂な　茶菓な　サカナ\n

(sakana is fish in japanese - but can match other kanji too and could be
written in hiragana or katakana).

anyway... this almost makes the illume keyboard... a full input method... just
not using XIM/SCIM/UIM... and i am a bit wary of treading down that path right
now. but as such a dictionary then COULD list all these completions when you
typing in roman text. this should apply for chinese too. not sure about korean.
there are other languages this may work for as well...

anyway. if i am going to go expand the dictionary format, i really need to be
careful. i kept it simple because i didn't want to solve the worlds dictionary
problems - i did want to keep it basic but working. as best i can tell the OM
userbase is still mainly western-speaking (yes - i know we have people here
from asia! :) not forgetting! just looking at dealing with the majority first!)

anyway... i am mulling this over. the byte-skip may solve some performance
issues, but this means i now need a special dict generator tool. i was trying
to avoid that :(

> >> Anyway, let me know I should send you the dict I've.
> > 
> > it's italian - right?
> 
> Yes, it's an Italian dict.
> 
> >> Italian standard linux dictionary (/usr/share/dict/italian) "weights" 
> >> 1,2mb but it's mostly incomplete.
> > 
> > aaah. ok. i guess that's not great quality then :)
> 
> No at all...
> >> And this is a great thing. Since this phone without a great virtual 
> >> keyboard (like the one you're doing) won't be usable/cool as it should 
> >> be. Imho this is the killer tool of illume.
> > 
> > thanks :) though really.. there is much more to illume :)
> 
> Yes, the keyboard is not illume (that is a cool wm for mobiles however) 
> but its keyboard makes it unique!

well the keyboard, i hoped, would be a "fairly generic basic keyboard" that
would cover most such "small screen mobile touchscreen ui usage". i know people
want things like dasher or a gazilli

Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:12:59 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>> Imho, a way to reduce the size would be allowing a rule to set suffix 
>> and prefix (for composed words) that would reduce the dictionary size.
>> So, for example, in my dictionary instead of using 50 lines for each 
>> verb I would use only one per one; i.e.:
>>
>> Italian verb "parlare" (to talk) would be (not complete)
>>   parl{o,i,a,iamo,ate,ano,avo,avi,ava,avamo,avate,avano,ai,asti,ò,ammo, \
>>aste,arono,erò,erai,erà,eremo,erete,eranno,erei,eresti,erebbe, \
>>eremmo,ereste,erebbero,ii,iamo,iate,ino,assi,asse,assimo, \
>>assero,ino,ando,ante,ato,ata,ati}
>>
>> Italian noun "casa" (house) would be
>>   cas{a,e}
>>
>> Italian adjective "libero" (free [as freedom]) would be
>>   liber{a,i,o}
> 
> yup yup. don't worry - i understand why :) i speak several langauges myself
> (not italian - but i did study latin, and speak french, german, english,
> japanese, some usable level of portuguese). i definitely get the language
> issues - for both european and asian languages :) yes. the above would reduce
> dictionary size. it would make parsing it much harder.

I suspected this :/. I did hoped to be wrong...

>> Anyway, let me know I should send you the dict I've.
> 
> it's italian - right?

Yes, it's an Italian dict.

>> Italian standard linux dictionary (/usr/share/dict/italian) "weights" 
>> 1,2mb but it's mostly incomplete.
> 
> aaah. ok. i guess that's not great quality then :)

No at all...
>> And this is a great thing. Since this phone without a great virtual 
>> keyboard (like the one you're doing) won't be usable/cool as it should 
>> be. Imho this is the killer tool of illume.
> 
> thanks :) though really.. there is much more to illume :)

Yes, the keyboard is not illume (that is a cool wm for mobiles however) 
but its keyboard makes it unique!

> hehehe - i just haven't done it. that's all. accent char normalising is easy:
> 
> ñ -> n
> é -> e
> ö -> o
> 
> etc. - just strip any accent (and convert to lower case). what i was wondering
> was:
> 
> æ -> ?
> ß -> ? (maybe s?)

Yeah... They should be transformed in two chars, in fact ("ae" and 
"ss"). Can't this been supported? Considering them as two inputs!

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: ASU keyboards

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:43:01 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

ok. i suck. i have screwed this defsault_profile monkey. 1 last time for the
dummies (i.e. - me).

1. opkg install illume-config-illume (get illume's config panel and illume
keyboard by default - this should be available)
2. opkg install illume-config (get qwery button)
2. echo 'E_PROFILE="-profile illume"' > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
(switch to the illume profile from asu)
3. reboot (easiest way to get your x session going again as the default_profile
is a command-line hack). :)

that should do it! 

> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:13:23 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> 
> hmm ok busybox echo doesnt know about -- and -n - do drop the -- :)
> 
> > On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:05:56 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > 
> > oops. forgot - rm ~/.e/e/config/profile.cfg
> > 
> > > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:45:37 +0200 Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > babbled:
> > > 
> > > i don't know what the state of software is in testing. i can only say
> > > what i have pushed to asu.dev
> > > 
> > > if that is what you have (whats in dev) then:
> > > 
> > > echo "illume" > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
> > > reboot
> > > (sorry restarting e wont work as it remembers its current profile - you
> > > can get it to change remotely but its a bit complicated to explain as u
> > > need the pid etc. of e and set it as part of an environment var. i'm
> > > giving the simplest solution here).
> > > 
> > > > It sure is something to go stark crazy about! I do love the ammount of 
> > > > activity on this mailing lists.
> > > > 
> > > > Anyway, I have succesfully disabled the qpe keyboard, but I'm stuck
> > > > with yet another keyboard. This one actually LOOKS like a keyboard. It
> > > > uses images for its buttons, and it's in white. Can anyone tell me
> > > > where it came from? (I believe it's the terminal.kbd file in the
> > > > 2008.08.08 image) I didn't have any full-qwerty.kbd file.
> > > > 
> > > > So, like angus, I'm looking for a way to install Raster's illume
> > > > keyboard.
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe someone can share the kbd file?
> > > > 
> > > > /Met vriendelijke groeten,/
> > > > 
> > > > *Jelle De Loecker*
> > > > Kipdola Studios - Tomberg
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Minh Ha Duong schreef:
> > > > > Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> > > > > I am going crazy trying to follow the keyboard debate and summarize it
> > > > > on the wiki. Discussions are going on in the community list, the
> > > > > support list, the trac mirrored on the devel list and I did not check
> > > > > IRC.
> > > > >
> > > > > Minh
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > > > >   
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: ASU keyboards

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:13:23 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

hmm ok busybox echo doesnt know about -- and -n - do drop the -- :)

> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:05:56 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> 
> oops. forgot - rm ~/.e/e/config/profile.cfg
> 
> > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:45:37 +0200 Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > babbled:
> > 
> > i don't know what the state of software is in testing. i can only say what i
> > have pushed to asu.dev
> > 
> > if that is what you have (whats in dev) then:
> > 
> > echo "illume" > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
> > reboot
> > (sorry restarting e wont work as it remembers its current profile - you can
> > get it to change remotely but its a bit complicated to explain as u need the
> > pid etc. of e and set it as part of an environment var. i'm giving the
> > simplest solution here).
> > 
> > > It sure is something to go stark crazy about! I do love the ammount of 
> > > activity on this mailing lists.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, I have succesfully disabled the qpe keyboard, but I'm stuck with 
> > > yet another keyboard. This one actually LOOKS like a keyboard. It uses 
> > > images for its buttons, and it's in white. Can anyone tell me where it 
> > > came from? (I believe it's the terminal.kbd file in the 2008.08.08 
> > > image) I didn't have any full-qwerty.kbd file.
> > > 
> > > So, like angus, I'm looking for a way to install Raster's illume keyboard.
> > > 
> > > Maybe someone can share the kbd file?
> > > 
> > > /Met vriendelijke groeten,/
> > > 
> > > *Jelle De Loecker*
> > > Kipdola Studios - Tomberg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Minh Ha Duong schreef:
> > > > Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> > > > I am going crazy trying to follow the keyboard debate and summarize it
> > > > on the wiki. Discussions are going on in the community list, the support
> > > > list, the trac mirrored on the devel list and I did not check IRC.
> > > >
> > > > Minh
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > > >   
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:13:23 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

oops. messed up. let me do this again...

1. opkg install illume-config-illume (this should be available)
2. echo -- "-profile illume" > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
3. rm ~/.e/e/config/profile.cfg
4. reboot



> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:05:56 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> 
> oops. forgot - rm ~/.e/e/config/profile.cfg
> 
> > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:45:37 +0200 Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > babbled:
> > 
> > i don't know what the state of software is in testing. i can only say what i
> > have pushed to asu.dev
> > 
> > if that is what you have (whats in dev) then:
> > 
> > echo "illume" > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
> > reboot
> > (sorry restarting e wont work as it remembers its current profile - you can
> > get it to change remotely but its a bit complicated to explain as u need the
> > pid etc. of e and set it as part of an environment var. i'm giving the
> > simplest solution here).
> > 
> > > It sure is something to go stark crazy about! I do love the ammount of 
> > > activity on this mailing lists.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, I have succesfully disabled the qpe keyboard, but I'm stuck with 
> > > yet another keyboard. This one actually LOOKS like a keyboard. It uses 
> > > images for its buttons, and it's in white. Can anyone tell me where it 
> > > came from? (I believe it's the terminal.kbd file in the 2008.08.08 
> > > image) I didn't have any full-qwerty.kbd file.
> > > 
> > > So, like angus, I'm looking for a way to install Raster's illume keyboard.
> > > 
> > > Maybe someone can share the kbd file?
> > > 
> > > /Met vriendelijke groeten,/
> > > 
> > > *Jelle De Loecker*
> > > Kipdola Studios - Tomberg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Minh Ha Duong schreef:
> > > > Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> > > > I am going crazy trying to follow the keyboard debate and summarize it
> > > > on the wiki. Discussions are going on in the community list, the support
> > > > list, the trac mirrored on the devel list and I did not check IRC.
> > > >
> > > > Minh
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > > >   
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Jelle De Loecker wrote:
> It sure is something to go stark crazy about! I do love the ammount of 
> activity on this mailing lists.
> 
> Anyway, I have succesfully disabled the qpe keyboard, but I'm stuck with 
> yet another keyboard. This one actually LOOKS like a keyboard. It uses 
> images for its buttons, and it's in white. Can anyone tell me where it 
> came from? (I believe it's the terminal.kbd file in the 2008.08.08 
> image)

Which one (any shot)? Maybe you're talking of the Illume tango theme [1]?

Bye

[1] http://52grad.de/.stuff/freerunner/
-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:16:37 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
> 
>> This is the fixed url:
>> http://git.openmoko.org/?p=qtopia.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/server/phone/serverinterface/phonelauncher/phonelauncher_illume.cpp;h=405a0b654e9c34a390d18e3466242de5de1cc53d;hp=623258b15a27a969dd8a0926884792936f41103b;hb=5a1a5204e9a4ace32dca98fdfd3b52b75592ee04;hpb=38d2a3923ef46b12279901e5a5dc4c84aeae5d6e
>>
>> Btw I'll try the fix suggested above using QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1
> 
> aaah that would be what creates the predictive keyboard in qpe -
> unconditionally. but reverting that would mean no qpe keyboard which would be
> against om's wishes. so it'd have to at least by default be on.

Yes... But fortunately there's a QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD env var that 
avoid us to comment these lines and recompiling qtopia :P.

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Re: ASU keyboards

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:45:37 +0200 Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

i don't know what the state of software is in testing. i can only say what i
have pushed to asu.dev

if that is what you have (whats in dev) then:

echo "illume" > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
reboot
(sorry restarting e wont work as it remembers its current profile - you can get
it to change remotely but its a bit complicated to explain as u need the pid
etc. of e and set it as part of an environment var. i'm giving the simplest
solution here).

> It sure is something to go stark crazy about! I do love the ammount of 
> activity on this mailing lists.
> 
> Anyway, I have succesfully disabled the qpe keyboard, but I'm stuck with 
> yet another keyboard. This one actually LOOKS like a keyboard. It uses 
> images for its buttons, and it's in white. Can anyone tell me where it 
> came from? (I believe it's the terminal.kbd file in the 2008.08.08 
> image) I didn't have any full-qwerty.kbd file.
> 
> So, like angus, I'm looking for a way to install Raster's illume keyboard.
> 
> Maybe someone can share the kbd file?
> 
> /Met vriendelijke groeten,/
> 
> *Jelle De Loecker*
> Kipdola Studios - Tomberg
> 
> 
> Minh Ha Duong schreef:
> > Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> > I am going crazy trying to follow the keyboard debate and summarize it on
> > the wiki. Discussions are going on in the community list, the support list,
> > the trac mirrored on the devel list and I did not check IRC.
> >
> > Minh
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >   
> 


-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards

[The Rasterman]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:05:56 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

oops. forgot - rm ~/.e/e/config/profile.cfg

> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:45:37 +0200 Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
> 
> i don't know what the state of software is in testing. i can only say what i
> have pushed to asu.dev
> 
> if that is what you have (whats in dev) then:
> 
> echo "illume" > /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
> reboot
> (sorry restarting e wont work as it remembers its current profile - you can
> get it to change remotely but its a bit complicated to explain as u need the
> pid etc. of e and set it as part of an environment var. i'm giving the
> simplest solution here).
> 
> > It sure is something to go stark crazy about! I do love the ammount of 
> > activity on this mailing lists.
> > 
> > Anyway, I have succesfully disabled the qpe keyboard, but I'm stuck with 
> > yet another keyboard. This one actually LOOKS like a keyboard. It uses 
> > images for its buttons, and it's in white. Can anyone tell me where it 
> > came from? (I believe it's the terminal.kbd file in the 2008.08.08 
> > image) I didn't have any full-qwerty.kbd file.
> > 
> > So, like angus, I'm looking for a way to install Raster's illume keyboard.
> > 
> > Maybe someone can share the kbd file?
> > 
> > /Met vriendelijke groeten,/
> > 
> > *Jelle De Loecker*
> > Kipdola Studios - Tomberg
> > 
> > 
> > Minh Ha Duong schreef:
> > > Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> > > I am going crazy trying to follow the keyboard debate and summarize it on
> > > the wiki. Discussions are going on in the community list, the support
> > > list, the trac mirrored on the devel list and I did not check IRC.
> > >
> > > Minh
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >   
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:12:59 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:00:50 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> >> Well, generally for small words there's a correction list, but it's not 
> >> always complete and often there are words very different from the one 
> >> I'd like to write, but not that one. So maybe it doesn't search in all 
> >> the dictionary. I could I try that?
> >> However my fingers are not so great...
> >> If you want I can send you my dictionaries, so you'll be able to test 
> >> them in a better way.
> > 
> > hmm. is this english?i am wondering if non-ascii chars are messing it up or
> > not. your dictionary may be useful - i have just been going off my 98,000
> > or so entry dict from /usr/share/dict/words which seems to be big enough
> > for me it seems and has pretty much everything in it... for english anyway.
> > as its used for spellchecking i kind of assumed it'd be good enough for
> > typing up sms's and emails :) at least in my tests it is listing all the
> > completions i'd expect it to. did you sort -f the illume dict?
> > (non-case-sensitive sort)?
> 
> Yes it's sorted and it's an Italian dictionary (so few non-ascii chars); 
> that's why it has so many words. Consider that an Italian dictionary has 
> about 12 words to be declined.
> So from a verb in the infinite form I can extract about 50 different 
> words, from names and from adjectives about 3 for each.
> But here (like in the more common occidental languages), in most cases, 
> only the suffix differs.
> 
> Imho, a way to reduce the size would be allowing a rule to set suffix 
> and prefix (for composed words) that would reduce the dictionary size.
> So, for example, in my dictionary instead of using 50 lines for each 
> verb I would use only one per one; i.e.:
> 
> Italian verb "parlare" (to talk) would be (not complete)
>   parl{o,i,a,iamo,ate,ano,avo,avi,ava,avamo,avate,avano,ai,asti,ò,ammo, \
>aste,arono,erò,erai,erà,eremo,erete,eranno,erei,eresti,erebbe, \
>eremmo,ereste,erebbero,ii,iamo,iate,ino,assi,asse,assimo, \
>assero,ino,ando,ante,ato,ata,ati}
> 
> Italian noun "casa" (house) would be
>   cas{a,e}
> 
> Italian adjective "libero" (free [as freedom]) would be
>   liber{a,i,o}

yup yup. don't worry - i understand why :) i speak several langauges myself
(not italian - but i did study latin, and speak french, german, english,
japanese, some usable level of portuguese). i definitely get the language
issues - for both european and asian languages :) yes. the above would reduce
dictionary size. it would make parsing it much harder.

right now its nice and simple and should work with pretty much every language i
can think of that doesnt use input methods and composition (ie japanese/chinese
where you use romanji or pinyin as phonetic representations of words).

the good bit is:

1. i can mmap() the file trivially.
2. i can build a quick lookup table by scanning through lines and the first 2
chars of each line - use this 2 char "hash" lookup to jump quickly to my mmaped
point - then do a (hopefully short) linear search. i keep the search results
iteratively so this means it will start where it left off last time to save
more walking.

> BTW I don't know if this would improve the keyboard typo-fixing work 
> (maybe yes if also the suffixes/[prefixes?] are sorted)

hmm - no. as long as it is sorted (case-insensitive) at all, then it should
work as the algorithm is simple.

> Anyway, let me know I should send you the dict I've.

it's italian - right?

> > illume's dict is 6mb? hmm i guess the raw text there has a lot of
> > redundancy :)
> Yes and this happens because of the things shown above. And I've made 
> only a part of the work; i guess that the final dictionary will double 
> this size. And it won't contain any proper name (City names, Sigles...).

hmm. ok. well apart from efficiency of dict size and search lengths a simple
dict-format dictionary should be able to work fine. maybe some utf8 handling
etc. is busted and words with accents get dumped or stopped at. what i do need
is a small set of examples to work from. i can create my own :) i never tested
anything with anything other than ascii chars (no accents/umlauts etc.) so
thats why i suspect them.

> Italian standard linux dictionary (/usr/share/dict/italian) "weights" 
> 1,2mb but it's mostly incomplete.

aaah. ok. i guess that's not great quality then :)
 
> > i tried to keep the dictionary simple in illume but am always willing to
> > look at other ways to improve it. though the keyboard is not really a focus
> > of mine
> > - it's something along the way so there may come a time when i go "well- you
> > want it better.. please.. send a patch!"... but its fresh on my plate now,
> > so it's active :)
> 
> And this is a great thing. Since this phone without a great virtual 
> keyboard (like the one yo

Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:22:58 -0600 "Angus Ainslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:25 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > > Holger posted this in a comment on bug #1864:
> > >
> > >  Small hint: You can put "export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1" into
> > >  /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89Qtopia and qpe will not instantiate a virtual
> > >  keyboard and illume's keybord should be shown.
> >
> > aha! there is the config opt... so a bit of script hacking. :)
> >
> >
> Using the 2008.9 update image this effectively disables the qwerty button.
> To get this to work do you need to start from the rasterman image or can I
> just install an illume ipk to get the full keyboard ?

well the button may be there -= but you have no keyboard. you need to change
config in illume to enable its own keyboard - and that is done via the keyboard
section in illume's config panel... which was what that wrench icon was.

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:46:01 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Le jeudi 28 août 2008 à 00:25 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
> 
> > aha! there is the config opt... so a bit of script hacking. :)
> 
> By the way, could you describe how to install illume's keyboard manually
> in case an update messes it. So far, I can only do it by reflashing.

it is part of illume - you don't install it - it's there waiting to be turned
on, just that all the ways to turn it on (other than dbus messages) are not
available to you easily. right now everything is a mess with config etc. so
what i tell you may or may not work depending what package, what tree, what
branch and what version you have. if you have whatever i have put in asu.dev
(whihc is unlikely - change profile to illume instead of asu
in /etc/enlightenment/default_profile, restart e (killall -HUP enlightenment)

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:16:37 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> This is the fixed url:
> http://git.openmoko.org/?p=qtopia.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/server/phone/serverinterface/phonelauncher/phonelauncher_illume.cpp;h=405a0b654e9c34a390d18e3466242de5de1cc53d;hp=623258b15a27a969dd8a0926884792936f41103b;hb=5a1a5204e9a4ace32dca98fdfd3b52b75592ee04;hpb=38d2a3923ef46b12279901e5a5dc4c84aeae5d6e
> 
> Btw I'll try the fix suggested above using QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1

aaah that would be what creates the predictive keyboard in qpe -
unconditionally. but reverting that would mean no qpe keyboard which would be
against om's wishes. so it'd have to at least by default be on.

-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:23:52 +0200 Sven Klomp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> On Wednesday 27 August 2008 16:05:20 Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:37:45 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > > julien cubizolles wrote:
> > > > Le mercredi 27 août 2008 à 09:55 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
> > > >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
> > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > > >>> I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary
> > > >>> and it works :)
> 
> The keyboard drives me crazy :-( With OM2008.8 and the update feed "testing"
> I assume I have the Illume keyboard (upper-right icon to choose layout 
> (Default, Numbers, Terminal) and the upper-left for ???). I assume the 
> upper-left icon is to change the dictionary? I copied a small dictionary 
> to /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/ but the button/icon has no 
> effect.
> Furthermore, the keyboard does not predict anything. Not from my dictionary 
> nor from the default dictionary. It displays everything exactly as i typed...
> 
> Whats wrong? Or is it still the Qtopia keyboard? We need screenshots of both.

you don't seem to have a recent illume version - testing doesn't have it. for a
while illume had no dictionary support at all. it has been added since.

-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[David Samblas]

Tested the modifying /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89qtopia (not capital Q on
qtopia) and after instaling/deinstaling some apps seems than finally qpe
vs illume fight has endend ...
illume wins!

El jue, 28-08-2008 a las 00:25 +1000, Carsten Haitzler escribió:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:59:05 +0100 Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
> 
> > On Wednesday 27 August 2008, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
> > > >> Should this disabled on qtopia/illume [1] or is there another way to 
> > > >> fix
> > > >> it?
> > > >>
> > > >> [1] Maybe reverting this http://tinyurl.com/6gzzmu ?
> > >
> > > No words about this? :P
> > 
> > Holger posted this in a comment on bug #1864:
> > 
> >  Small hint: You can put "export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1" into
> >  /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89Qtopia and qpe will not instantiate a virtual
> >  keyboard and illume's keybord should be shown.
> 
> aha! there is the config opt... so a bit of script hacking. :)
> 
> 


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ha scritto:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:41:39 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
> 
>> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:13:14 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
 And is there a way to disable the automatic keyboard showing at all?
 I'd like to open the keyboard only tapping on the qwerty icon (like I 
 had to do weeks ago with the first ASU images).
>>> hmm - no there isn't a way to stop auto- it always responds... but i could
>>> add options for this. this seems a reasonable thing - IF you have access to
>>> the config. i'll add it to my list.
>> Cool!
>>
 Should this disabled on qtopia/illume [1] or is there another way to fix
 it?

 [1] Maybe reverting this http://tinyurl.com/6gzzmu ?
>> No words about this? :P
> 
> Not Found
> 
> The requested URL /?
> p=qtopia.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/server/phone/serverinterface/phonelauncher/phonelauncher_illume.cpp;h=405a0b654e9c34a390d18e3466242de5de1cc53d;hp=623258b15a27a969dd8a0926884792936f41103b;hb=5a1a5204e9a4ace32dca98fdfd3b52b75592ee04;hpb=38d2a3923ef46b12279901e5a5dc4c84aeae5d6e
> was not found on this server. Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) Server at git.openmoko.org
> Port 80

This is the fixed url:
http://git.openmoko.org/?p=qtopia.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/server/phone/serverinterface/phonelauncher/phonelauncher_illume.cpp;h=405a0b654e9c34a390d18e3466242de5de1cc53d;hp=623258b15a27a969dd8a0926884792936f41103b;hb=5a1a5204e9a4ace32dca98fdfd3b52b75592ee04;hpb=38d2a3923ef46b12279901e5a5dc4c84aeae5d6e

Btw I'll try the fix suggested above using QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:00:50 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>> Well, generally for small words there's a correction list, but it's not 
>> always complete and often there are words very different from the one 
>> I'd like to write, but not that one. So maybe it doesn't search in all 
>> the dictionary. I could I try that?
>> However my fingers are not so great...
>> If you want I can send you my dictionaries, so you'll be able to test 
>> them in a better way.
> 
> hmm. is this english?i am wondering if non-ascii chars are messing it up or
> not. your dictionary may be useful - i have just been going off my 98,000 or 
> so
> entry dict from /usr/share/dict/words which seems to be big enough for me it
> seems and has pretty much everything in it... for english anyway. as its used
> for spellchecking i kind of assumed it'd be good enough for typing up sms's 
> and
> emails :) at least in my tests it is listing all the completions i'd expect it
> to. did you sort -f the illume dict? (non-case-sensitive sort)?

Yes it's sorted and it's an Italian dictionary (so few non-ascii chars); 
that's why it has so many words. Consider that an Italian dictionary has 
about 12 words to be declined.
So from a verb in the infinite form I can extract about 50 different 
words, from names and from adjectives about 3 for each.
But here (like in the more common occidental languages), in most cases, 
only the suffix differs.

Imho, a way to reduce the size would be allowing a rule to set suffix 
and prefix (for composed words) that would reduce the dictionary size.
So, for example, in my dictionary instead of using 50 lines for each 
verb I would use only one per one; i.e.:

Italian verb "parlare" (to talk) would be (not complete)
  parl{o,i,a,iamo,ate,ano,avo,avi,ava,avamo,avate,avano,ai,asti,ò,ammo, \
   aste,arono,erò,erai,erà,eremo,erete,eranno,erei,eresti,erebbe, \
   eremmo,ereste,erebbero,ii,iamo,iate,ino,assi,asse,assimo, \
   assero,ino,ando,ante,ato,ata,ati}

Italian noun "casa" (house) would be
  cas{a,e}

Italian adjective "libero" (free [as freedom]) would be
  liber{a,i,o}


BTW I don't know if this would improve the keyboard typo-fixing work 
(maybe yes if also the suffixes/[prefixes?] are sorted)

Anyway, let me know I should send you the dict I've.

> illume's dict is 6mb? hmm i guess the raw text there has a lot of redundancy 
> :)
Yes and this happens because of the things shown above. And I've made 
only a part of the work; i guess that the final dictionary will double 
this size. And it won't contain any proper name (City names, Sigles...).

Italian standard linux dictionary (/usr/share/dict/italian) "weights" 
1,2mb but it's mostly incomplete.

> i tried to keep the dictionary simple in illume but am always willing to look
> at other ways to improve it. though the keyboard is not really a focus of mine
> - it's something along the way so there may come a time when i go "well- you
> want it better.. please.. send a patch!"... but its fresh on my plate now, so
> it's active :)

And this is a great thing. Since this phone without a great virtual 
keyboard (like the one you're doing) won't be usable/cool as it should 
be. Imho this is the killer tool of illume.

>> Another thing I'd like to suggest you is that imho the backspace/space 
>> right-left/left-right dragging is too long. If you try writing using 
>> your thumbs you can notice that is hard deleting a word... Imho they 
>> should be more sensible.
> 
> from illume's TODO file (in svn):
> 
> * kbd needs drag for backspace/next word etc. to be shorter
> 
> :) already there. :) well - as with accent normalising - there is a marker 
> that
> i realise something needs to be done.

Nice! :P

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: ASU keyboards

[Jelle De Loecker]

It sure is something to go stark crazy about! I do love the ammount of 
activity on this mailing lists.


Anyway, I have succesfully disabled the qpe keyboard, but I'm stuck with 
yet another keyboard. This one actually LOOKS like a keyboard. It uses 
images for its buttons, and it's in white. Can anyone tell me where it 
came from? (I believe it's the terminal.kbd file in the 2008.08.08 
image) I didn't have any full-qwerty.kbd file.


So, like angus, I'm looking for a way to install Raster's illume keyboard.

Maybe someone can share the kbd file?

/Met vriendelijke groeten,/

*Jelle De Loecker*
Kipdola Studios - Tomberg


Minh Ha Duong schreef:

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I am going crazy trying to follow the keyboard debate and summarize it on the 
wiki. Discussions are going on in the community list, the support list, the 
trac mirrored on the devel list and I did not check IRC.


Minh

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Re: ASU keyboards, again (Angus Ainslie)

[Angus Ainslie]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Al Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> I think Angus was meaning that the QWERTY bit is present, but that with
> "export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1" it no longer brings up a keyboard
> since
> this variable disables the qtopia keyboard, and no other is installed. He's
> looking for a way to use Raster's illume keyboard which AFAIK is only
> available in Raster's image.
>

Thanks for the switch. It does re-fix zecke's feeds if you've overwritten
the default from rasters image.

Angus
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Re: ASU keyboards

[Angus Ainslie]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Minh Ha Duong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> I am going crazy trying to follow the keyboard debate and summarize it on
> the
> wiki. Discussions are going on in the community list, the support list, the
> trac mirrored on the devel list and I did not check IRC.
>
>
So back to my question. Is there a way to install the illume keyboard in the
2008.9 update ?

Thanks
Angus
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Re: ASU keyboards, again (Angus Ainslie)

[Angus Ainslie]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Al Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> I think Angus was meaning that the QWERTY bit is present, but that with
> "export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1" it no longer brings up a keyboard
> since
> this variable disables the qtopia keyboard, and no other is installed. He's
> looking for a way to use Raster's illume keyboard which AFAIK is only
> available in Raster's image.
>
>
Thats exactly what I meant, thanks Minh
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Re: ASU keyboards, again (Angus Ainslie)

[Al Johnson]

On Wednesday 27 August 2008, Minh Ha Duong wrote:
> Hello Angus,
>
> Please try installing illume-config, then let us know if the QWERTY
> appears. If not, try restarting X with
>   /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart
> and then I think it should work.
>
> Minh

I think Angus was meaning that the QWERTY bit is present, but that with
"export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1" it no longer brings up a keyboard since 
this variable disables the qtopia keyboard, and no other is installed. He's 
looking for a way to use Raster's illume keyboard which AFAIK is only 
available in Raster's image.


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Sven Klomp]

On Wednesday 27 August 2008 16:05:20 Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:37:45 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > julien cubizolles wrote:
> > > Le mercredi 27 août 2008 à 09:55 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
> > >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
> > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > >>> I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary
> > >>> and it works :)

The keyboard drives me crazy :-( With OM2008.8 and the update feed "testing" I 
assume I have the Illume keyboard (upper-right icon to choose layout 
(Default, Numbers, Terminal) and the upper-left for ???). I assume the 
upper-left icon is to change the dictionary? I copied a small dictionary 
to /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/ but the button/icon has no 
effect.
Furthermore, the keyboard does not predict anything. Not from my dictionary 
nor from the default dictionary. It displays everything exactly as i typed...

Whats wrong? Or is it still the Qtopia keyboard? We need screenshots of both.

Sven


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Re: ASU keyboards, again (Angus Ainslie)

[Minh Ha Duong]

Hello Angus,

Please try installing illume-config, then let us know if the QWERTY appears.
If not, try restarting X with
  /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart
and then I think it should work.

Minh

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Angus Ainslie]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:25 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Holger posted this in a comment on bug #1864:
> >
> >  Small hint: You can put "export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1" into
> >  /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89Qtopia and qpe will not instantiate a virtual
> >  keyboard and illume's keybord should be shown.
>
> aha! there is the config opt... so a bit of script hacking. :)
>
>
Using the 2008.9 update image this effectively disables the qwerty button.
To get this to work do you need to start from the rasterman image or can I
just install an illume ipk to get the full keyboard ?

Angus
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[julien cubizolles]

Le jeudi 28 août 2008 à 00:25 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :

> aha! there is the config opt... so a bit of script hacking. :)

By the way, could you describe how to install illume's keyboard manually
in case an update messes it. So far, I can only do it by reflashing.

Thanks.

Julien.


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:59:05 +0100 Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> On Wednesday 27 August 2008, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
> > >> Should this disabled on qtopia/illume [1] or is there another way to fix
> > >> it?
> > >>
> > >> [1] Maybe reverting this http://tinyurl.com/6gzzmu ?
> >
> > No words about this? :P
> 
> Holger posted this in a comment on bug #1864:
> 
>  Small hint: You can put "export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1" into
>  /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89Qtopia and qpe will not instantiate a virtual
>  keyboard and illume's keybord should be shown.

aha! there is the config opt... so a bit of script hacking. :)


-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:00:50 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:21:10 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> >> Well I have to say that it doesn't work always as expected... :/ I'm 
> >> comparing the prediction of the illume keyboard with the one of the 
> >> qtopia keyboard and using the same dictionary (well, in different 
> >> formats but it contains in both cases the same 446674 words).
> >> So, using the qtopia keyboard the correction applies always, while with 
> >> the illume keyboard the more the word is long and more the 
> >> typo-correction fails.
> > 
> > how are you using the correction? are you just taking he "most like;y" 1
> > word only - it should list all corrections - the one you want should be
> > there - without frequency information it may not be the most likely match
> > though. it could also be that the with illume the .kbd sets the "fuzz"
> > value - this is the search distance for neighbouring keys. this fuzz value
> > may be too low for your fingers? i really need to know more. also the
> > algorithm for sorting "best match" is commented with FIXME's - it's very
> > simple, so if it gets the correction listed (check the full list by
> > pressing the top-left dictionary icon) then it's finding it - just not
> > sorting it that well. if it is not there
> > - it's likely a fuzz value issue. a user config for multiplying the fuzz
> > value might be good (to increase search space).
> 
> Well, generally for small words there's a correction list, but it's not 
> always complete and often there are words very different from the one 
> I'd like to write, but not that one. So maybe it doesn't search in all 
> the dictionary. I could I try that?
> However my fingers are not so great...
> If you want I can send you my dictionaries, so you'll be able to test 
> them in a better way.

hmm. is this english? i am wondering if non-ascii chars are messing it up or
not. your dictionary may be useful - i have just been going off my 98,000 or so
entry dict from /usr/share/dict/words which seems to be big enough for me it
seems and has pretty much everything in it... for english anyway. as its used
for spellchecking i kind of assumed it'd be good enough for typing up sms's and
emails :) at least in my tests it is listing all the completions i'd expect it
to. did you sort -f the illume dict? (non-case-sensitive sort)?

> > and is it really the same dictionary? how are you creating the illume and
> > qpe dictionaries?
> 
> They're based on an online free dictionary, then while illume uses a 
> list of sorted words, qtopia uses the same list converted to dawg using 
> qdawgen (I don't studied a lot that format but if I'm not wrong [maybe 
> I'm only mixing my ideas about a dictionary file format] it represents 
> the words in some threes where the roots are the composed by the letters 
> and every node could be both a father and a child. I guess that reduces 
> the size of the dictionary [1,9mb vs  6mb] and maybe its analysis).
> However they contain the same words!

illume's dict is 6mb? hmm i guess the raw text there has a lot of redundancy :)
i tried to keep the dictionary simple in illume but am always willing to look
at other ways to improve it. though the keyboard is not really a focus of mine
- it's something along the way so there may come a time when i go "well- you
want it better.. please.. send a patch!"... but its fresh on my plate now, so
it's active :)

> >> Using smaller dictionaries the things improves, but my dictionary isn't 
> >> complete yet :o!
> > 
> > hmm - if it isnt working well for you i am interesting in fixing it - so i'm
> > probing for info. :)
> 
> Nice to ear! :)
> 
> Another thing I'd like to suggest you is that imho the backspace/space 
> right-left/left-right dragging is too long. If you try writing using 
> your thumbs you can notice that is hard deleting a word... Imho they 
> should be more sensible.

from illume's TODO file (in svn):

* kbd needs drag for backspace/next word etc. to be shorter

:) already there. :) well - as with accent normalising - there is a marker that
i realise something needs to be done.

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:05:11 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:56:06 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > babbled:
> > 
> >> Le mercredi 27 août 2008 à 09:55 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
> >>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> >>>
>  I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
>  it works :)
> >>> fantastic! i never tested. including accented characters? like ñ etc.?
> >> The accents don't work for me with a french dict : the word "abcès" is
> >> in my dictionnary but is never proposed in the list.
> > 
> > do you type a "è" on the keyboard? on an "e" (yes - you need to go to
> > numbers to fine an "è") ? is your dictionary utf8?
> 
> Ah, another request: what about considering "e" like "è", "é" and other 
> special chars? It would improve a lot writing!

i know. already accounted for it. from illume's code (e_kbd_dict.c right at the
top) ... right now "normalising" is:

   // FIXME: ö -> o, ä -> a, Ó -> o etc. - ie normalise to latin-1
   return tolower(glyph) & 0x7f;

not great... but hey... better than a kick in the head :)

> I should have somewhere I function I wrote to do that (for different 
> purposes, of course) maybe it could help (well, I know it's easy to 
> write but so much annoying!).

yes. annoying. i would need a nice big table of all the unicode points and what
to map them to. also the issue was to make it fast - as this is done during
searching to match fuzzily - so every char will have this transform done...
multiple time ( i could limit it to once actually - but not in the code right
now).

> -- 
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> http://www.3v1n0.net/
> 
> 
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:56:06 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
> 
>> Le mercredi 27 août 2008 à 09:55 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
>>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
>>>
 I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
 it works :)
>>> fantastic! i never tested. including accented characters? like ñ etc.?
>> The accents don't work for me with a french dict : the word "abcès" is
>> in my dictionnary but is never proposed in the list.
> 
> do you type a "è" on the keyboard? on an "e" (yes - you need to go to numbers
> to fine an "è") ? is your dictionary utf8?

Ah, another request: what about considering "e" like "è", "é" and other 
special chars? It would improve a lot writing!
I should have somewhere I function I wrote to do that (for different 
purposes, of course) maybe it could help (well, I know it's easy to 
write but so much annoying!).

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:41:39 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:13:14 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> >> And is there a way to disable the automatic keyboard showing at all?
> >> I'd like to open the keyboard only tapping on the qwerty icon (like I 
> >> had to do weeks ago with the first ASU images).
> > 
> > hmm - no there isn't a way to stop auto- it always responds... but i could
> > add options for this. this seems a reasonable thing - IF you have access to
> > the config. i'll add it to my list.
> 
> Cool!
> 
> >> Should this disabled on qtopia/illume [1] or is there another way to fix
> >> it?
> >>
> >> [1] Maybe reverting this http://tinyurl.com/6gzzmu ?
> 
> No words about this? :P

Not Found

The requested URL /?
p=qtopia.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/server/phone/serverinterface/phonelauncher/phonelauncher_illume.cpp;h=405a0b654e9c34a390d18e3466242de5de1cc53d;hp=623258b15a27a969dd8a0926884792936f41103b;hb=5a1a5204e9a4ace32dca98fdfd3b52b75592ee04;hpb=38d2a3923ef46b12279901e5a5dc4c84aeae5d6e
was not found on this server. Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) Server at git.openmoko.org
Port 80

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:37:45 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> julien cubizolles wrote:
> > Le mercredi 27 août 2008 à 09:55 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
> >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> >>
> >>> I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
> >>> it works :)
> >> fantastic! i never tested. including accented characters? like ñ etc.?
> > 
> > The accents don't work for me with a french dict : the word "abcès" is
> > in my dictionnary but is never proposed in the list.
> 
> In Italian the accents are only at the end of the words, by the way they 
> work.

hmm ok. 1 positive for working. :)

btw - i dont have any code to map é -> e or ö -> o, et.c (ie remove accent from
char) for matching to simple latin text (and expanding matches with accents)
that's actually a fixme in the code - when it normalises A -> a and B -> b
(remove case) it doesn't do any accent stripping.


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:21:10 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>> Well I have to say that it doesn't work always as expected... :/ I'm 
>> comparing the prediction of the illume keyboard with the one of the 
>> qtopia keyboard and using the same dictionary (well, in different 
>> formats but it contains in both cases the same 446674 words).
>> So, using the qtopia keyboard the correction applies always, while with 
>> the illume keyboard the more the word is long and more the 
>> typo-correction fails.
> 
> how are you using the correction? are you just taking he "most like;y" 1 word
> only - it should list all corrections - the one you want should be there -
> without frequency information it may not be the most likely match though. it
> could also be that the with illume the .kbd sets the "fuzz" value - this is 
> the
> search distance for neighbouring keys. this fuzz value may be too low for your
> fingers? i really need to know more. also the algorithm for sorting "best
> match" is commented with FIXME's - it's very simple, so if it gets the
> correction listed (check the full list by pressing the top-left dictionary
> icon) then it's finding it - just not sorting it that well. if it is not there
> - it's likely a fuzz value issue. a user config for multiplying the fuzz value
> might be good (to increase search space).

Well, generally for small words there's a correction list, but it's not 
always complete and often there are words very different from the one 
I'd like to write, but not that one. So maybe it doesn't search in all 
the dictionary. I could I try that?
However my fingers are not so great...
If you want I can send you my dictionaries, so you'll be able to test 
them in a better way.

> and is it really the same dictionary? how are you creating the illume and qpe
> dictionaries?

They're based on an online free dictionary, then while illume uses a 
list of sorted words, qtopia uses the same list converted to dawg using 
qdawgen (I don't studied a lot that format but if I'm not wrong [maybe 
I'm only mixing my ideas about a dictionary file format] it represents 
the words in some threes where the roots are the composed by the letters 
and every node could be both a father and a child. I guess that reduces 
the size of the dictionary [1,9mb vs  6mb] and maybe its analysis).
However they contain the same words!

>> Using smaller dictionaries the things improves, but my dictionary isn't 
>> complete yet :o!
> 
> hmm - if it isnt working well for you i am interesting in fixing it - so i'm
> probing for info. :)

Nice to ear! :)

Another thing I'd like to suggest you is that imho the backspace/space 
right-left/left-right dragging is too long. If you try writing using 
your thumbs you can notice that is hard deleting a word... Imho they 
should be more sensible.

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Al Johnson]

On Wednesday 27 August 2008, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
> >> Should this disabled on qtopia/illume [1] or is there another way to fix
> >> it?
> >>
> >> [1] Maybe reverting this http://tinyurl.com/6gzzmu ?
>
> No words about this? :P

Holger posted this in a comment on bug #1864:

 Small hint: You can put "export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1" into
 /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89Qtopia and qpe will not instantiate a virtual
 keyboard and illume's keybord should be shown.

 See:
 
http://git.openmoko.org/?p=qtopia.git;a=commit;h=b3d1d38877b5b433c81e18c34484856ce7bd0955


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:13:14 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>> And is there a way to disable the automatic keyboard showing at all?
>> I'd like to open the keyboard only tapping on the qwerty icon (like I 
>> had to do weeks ago with the first ASU images).
> 
> hmm - no there isn't a way to stop auto- it always responds... but i could add
> options for this. this seems a reasonable thing - IF you have access to the
> config. i'll add it to my list.

Cool!

>> Should this disabled on qtopia/illume [1] or is there another way to fix it?
>>
>> [1] Maybe reverting this http://tinyurl.com/6gzzmu ?

No words about this? :P

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

julien cubizolles wrote:
> Le mercredi 27 août 2008 à 09:55 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
>>
>>> I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
>>> it works :)
>> fantastic! i never tested. including accented characters? like ñ etc.?
> 
> The accents don't work for me with a french dict : the word "abcès" is
> in my dictionnary but is never proposed in the list.

In Italian the accents are only at the end of the words, by the way they 
work.

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:20:34 +0100 Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:40 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > babbled:
> >
> >> 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
> >> predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
> >> pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
> >> several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
> >> It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
> >> displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
> >> supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
> >
> > with illume's keyboard (my one) in the latest illume's you get a
> > dictionary. it should be possible to create a french dictionary -
> > take /usr/share/dict/words from your desktop (i assume you have a french
> > one) and:
> 
> How different is your keyboard from the Qtopia 'predictive keyboard' -
> I don't have a FR yet - so I can't try them out. It sounds, from the
> gestures that people describe and the images I've seen that they are
> remarkably similar. The Qtopia one is the best touchscreen keyboard
> I've ever used
> (tried it on an A780 w. OpenEZX...) so I'm curious :)

illume's is very similar. in "simple predictive mode" (really corrective) it
works very similarly - just bang on the keyboard roughly where you should press
and it'll spell-correct and look for a "best match" and list all matches from
best to worse and have a full popup (unlike the qtopia one) for all matches to
scroll through, click on that same popup icon when no word is being composed
and you get to flip dictionary, and top-right lets you select layout (as well
as slide-up). slide-down is a shortcut for enter in illume and left/right slide
are the same. illume's dictionary files are flat text though.

> Do you work out probabilities in a similar way to them? Can you switch
> off the predictive and use 'normal' mode?

yes. Terminal layout has almost all keys on a normal qwerty keyboard (ctrl,
alt, arrow keys etc.) and doesnt try and predict.

> If it is not vastly different, I'm interested to know the reasons you
> chose to make a separate one (not in an accusing aggressive way! Just
> out of curiousity - I assume there's a good reason :)

because it's small, uses efl for theming (thus matches the rest of the
wm/desktop env) and not tied to qt/qtopia, and the fact there are a lot of
people uncomfortable with qt/qtopia (partly due to history, partly to it being
GPL and not LGPL etc.). also i knew there were usability issues with it - it's
got a steep learning curve - changing layout is "luck" rthat you happen to
figure out sliding up/down changes it. it also has its layouts hard-coded in,
whereas illume's are config files thus easier to generate for users - same with
dictionaries. so i'm addressing the weak points of the qtopia keyboard,
mimicking its strong points as well as providing a small lean one that is
flexible.

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:56:06 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Le mercredi 27 août 2008 à 09:55 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
> > On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > 
> > > I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
> > > it works :)
> > 
> > fantastic! i never tested. including accented characters? like ñ etc.?
> 
> The accents don't work for me with a french dict : the word "abcès" is
> in my dictionnary but is never proposed in the list.

do you type a "è" on the keyboard? on an "e" (yes - you need to go to numbers
to fine an "è") ? is your dictionary utf8?

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[julien cubizolles]

Le mercredi 27 août 2008 à 09:55 +1000, Carsten Haitzler a écrit :
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> 
> > I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
> > it works :)
> 
> fantastic! i never tested. including accented characters? like ñ etc.?

The accents don't work for me with a french dict : the word "abcès" is
in my dictionnary but is never proposed in the list.


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Who]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:40 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
>> 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
>> predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
>> pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
>> several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
>> It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
>> displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
>> supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
>
> with illume's keyboard (my one) in the latest illume's you get a dictionary. 
> it
> should be possible to create a french dictionary - take /usr/share/dict/words
> from your desktop (i assume you have a french one) and:

How different is your keyboard from the Qtopia 'predictive keyboard' -
I don't have a FR yet - so I can't try them out. It sounds, from the
gestures that people describe and the images I've seen that they are
remarkably similar. The Qtopia one is the best touchscreen keyboard
I've ever used
(tried it on an A780 w. OpenEZX...) so I'm curious :)

Do you work out probabilities in a similar way to them? Can you switch
off the predictive and use 'normal' mode?

If it is not vastly different, I'm interested to know the reasons you
chose to make a separate one (not in an accusing aggressive way! Just
out of curiousity - I assume there's a good reason :)

Who

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Re: Changing keyboard layout - Was: Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:47:05 +0200 Olivier Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > babbled:
> >
> >> I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
> >> love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
> >
> > great! see below about adding a french dictionary :)
> >
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong, but what you describe is changing the dictionnary,
> not what he asked for : changing the layout : from qwerty to azerty...

/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/*.kbd

these are the layout files - create a new one for whatever layout you like!
they are text files. take a look - you'll get the idea. :)


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Changing keyboard layout - Was: Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Olivier Berger]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
>> I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
>> love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
>
> great! see below about adding a french dictionary :)
>

Maybe I'm wrong, but what you describe is changing the dictionnary,
not what he asked for : changing the layout : from qwerty to azerty...

Just my 2 cents,

Best regards,
-- 
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:21:10 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > but as such it will display the most likely matches in the dictionary based
> > on how far the "typo" is from the word (the closest wins). it doesn't try
> > and predict at all - only "fix" so you have to type all the letters - it
> > just makes up for typos and a "fat finger" on a "small screen". press
> > top-left dictionary icon to select dictionaries when no word is being
> > composed (select this to list ALL matches - EXACTLY what you typed will be
> > the first thing in the list always
> > - if you select it it gets added to your personal dictionary so it can match
> > and fix your typos later).
> 
> Well I have to say that it doesn't work always as expected... :/ I'm 
> comparing the prediction of the illume keyboard with the one of the 
> qtopia keyboard and using the same dictionary (well, in different 
> formats but it contains in both cases the same 446674 words).
> So, using the qtopia keyboard the correction applies always, while with 
> the illume keyboard the more the word is long and more the 
> typo-correction fails.

how are you using the correction? are you just taking he "most like;y" 1 word
only - it should list all corrections - the one you want should be there -
without frequency information it may not be the most likely match though. it
could also be that the with illume the .kbd sets the "fuzz" value - this is the
search distance for neighbouring keys. this fuzz value may be too low for your
fingers? i really need to know more. also the algorithm for sorting "best
match" is commented with FIXME's - it's very simple, so if it gets the
correction listed (check the full list by pressing the top-left dictionary
icon) then it's finding it - just not sorting it that well. if it is not there
- it's likely a fuzz value issue. a user config for multiplying the fuzz value
might be good (to increase search space).

and is it really the same dictionary? how are you creating the illume and qpe
dictionaries?

> Using smaller dictionaries the things improves, but my dictionary isn't 
> complete yet :o!

hmm - if it isnt working well for you i am interesting in fixing it - so i'm
probing for info. :)
 
> -- 
> Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> http://www.3v1n0.net/
> 
> 
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:13:14 +0200 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> julien cubizolles wrote:
> > 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
> > old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
> > matter what I always get raster's one ?
> 
> And is there a way to disable the automatic keyboard showing at all?
> I'd like to open the keyboard only tapping on the qwerty icon (like I 
> had to do weeks ago with the first ASU images).

hmm - no there isn't a way to stop auto- it always responds... but i could add
options for this. this seems a reasonable thing - IF you have access to the
config. i'll add it to my list.

> Should this disabled on qtopia/illume [1] or is there another way to fix it?
> 
> [1] Maybe reverting this http://tinyurl.com/6gzzmu ?
> 
> -- 
> Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> http://www.3v1n0.net/
> 
> 
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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

julien cubizolles wrote:
> 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
> old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
> matter what I always get raster's one ?

And is there a way to disable the automatic keyboard showing at all?
I'd like to open the keyboard only tapping on the qwerty icon (like I 
had to do weeks ago with the first ASU images).

Should this disabled on qtopia/illume [1] or is there another way to fix it?

[1] Maybe reverting this http://tinyurl.com/6gzzmu ?

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> but as such it will display the most likely matches in the dictionary based on
> how far the "typo" is from the word (the closest wins). it doesn't try and
> predict at all - only "fix" so you have to type all the letters - it just 
> makes
> up for typos and a "fat finger" on a "small screen". press top-left dictionary
> icon to select dictionaries when no word is being composed (select this to 
> list
> ALL matches - EXACTLY what you typed will be the first thing in the list 
> always
> - if you select it it gets added to your personal dictionary so it can match
> and fix your typos later).

Well I have to say that it doesn't work always as expected... :/ I'm 
comparing the prediction of the illume keyboard with the one of the 
qtopia keyboard and using the same dictionary (well, in different 
formats but it contains in both cases the same 446674 words).
So, using the qtopia keyboard the correction applies always, while with 
the illume keyboard the more the word is long and more the 
typo-correction fails.

Using smaller dictionaries the things improves, but my dictionary isn't 
complete yet :o!

-- 
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:49:35 +0200 Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> Jus tot egt things straight: how many keyboards are there?
> 
> We have the qpe one, we have this terminal one (with the bevels and 
> such) but wasn't there another one, a full keyboard with no fancy graphics?

ok - the qpe one is the one that doesn't have any icons on the top left/right to
select dictionary or layout. illume's keyboard is the one that does - there is
a "Tango" theme that gives the keys little key-like bevels etc. this just
changes the look. you can also use "external" keyboards like matchbox and
multitap etc. too - so far qpe is playing the odd one out as there is no way to
turn it off or optionally "run it" just when desired (it's part of the qpe
process).

the illume keyboard is the one with "full qwerty" and no fancy graphics.. also
able to have fancy graphics just by a theme changes and can also do prediction
(correction) or no correction as desired (the terminal keyboard layout
basically disabled any dictionary lookup/correction as it sends keys directly as
pressed and doesn't compose in the buffer, but the default layout does compose
words and thus use whatever dictionary you have selected). it supports multiple
dictionaries at the same time (just select the system one) a personal
dictionary (where anything you type gets added in and thus the keyboard learns
your typing habits), and also supports multiple keyboard layouts (where you
just can edit a .kbd data file to define a new keyboard layout and add extra
keys or remove them, shuffle them around etc.)

> /Met vriendelijke groeten,/
> 
> *Jelle De Loecker*
> Kipdola Studios - Tomberg
> 
> 
> David Samblas schreef:
> > I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
> > it works :)
> >
> > Note to Ubuntu/Debian users, the compatible dictionaries are installed
> > on /usr/share/dict/
> > if you dont find your lenguage there do
> >
> > #apt-cache search wordlist|grep ^w|sort
> >
> > to show avaiable lenguages
> >
> > change wspanish for your lenguage 
> >
> > #apt-get install wspanish
> >
> > and 
> >
> > then 
> > # scp /usr/share/dict/spanish
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/spanish.dic
> >
> > Avoid the shorting part because this dictionaries are already shorted
> > and depending on the locales you will only messit 
> >
> > El mar, 26-08-2008 a las 22:40 +1000, Carsten Haitzler escribió:
> >   
> >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> babbled:
> >>
> >> 
> >>> I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
> >>> love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
> >>>   
> >> great! see below about adding a french dictionary :)
> >>
> >> 
> >>> However I have some isssues.
> >>>
> >>> 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
> >>> old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
> >>> matter what I always get raster's one ?
> >>>   
> >> this is a matter of qpe still making its keyboard and qpe and illume
> >> clashing. it manages to make sure no big mess happens, but it means it's a
> >> luck of the draw (first in, first served) as to which keyboard gets
> >> displayed. :( can't turn qpe's keyboard off currently.
> >>
> >> 
> >>> 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
> >>> predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
> >>> pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
> >>> several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
> >>> It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
> >>> displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
> >>> supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
> >>>   
> >> with illume's keyboard (my one) in the latest illume's you get a
> >> dictionary. it should be possible to create a french dictionary -
> >> take /usr/share/dict/words from your desktop (i assume you have a french
> >> one) and:
> >>
> >> sort -f words > French.dic
> >> scp French.dic 192.168.0.202:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/
> >>
> >> (assuming your FR is plugged in). then it will use french words to predict
> >> - if you select the French dictionary. :)
> >>
> >> but as such it will display the most likely matches in the dictionary
> >> based on how far the "typo" is from the word (the closest wins). it
> >> doesn't try and predict at all - only "fix" so you have to type all the
> >> letters - it just makes up for typos and a "fat finger" on a "small
> >> screen". press top-left dictionary icon to select dictionaries when no
> >> word is being composed (select this to list ALL matches - EXACTLY what you
> >> typed will be the first thing in the list always
> >> - if you select it it gets added to your personal dictionary so it can
> >> match and fix your typos later).
> >>
> >> 
> >>

Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:31:45 +0200 David Samblas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
> it works :)

fantastic! i never tested. including accented characters? like ñ etc.?

> Note to Ubuntu/Debian users, the compatible dictionaries are installed
> on /usr/share/dict/
> if you dont find your lenguage there do
> 
> #apt-cache search wordlist|grep ^w|sort
> 
> to show avaiable lenguages
> 
> change wspanish for your lenguage 
> 
> #apt-get install wspanish
> 
> and 
> 
> then 
> # scp /usr/share/dict/spanish
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/spanish.dic
> 
> Avoid the shorting part because this dictionaries are already shorted
> and depending on the locales you will only messit 

oh - you have to sort -f! note "-f". illume's dictionary code ASSUMES the dict
file is sorted IGNORING CASE. that means:

Aaliyah's
aardvark
aardvark's
aardvarks
Aaron
Aaron's
abaci
aback

your system linux dict is sorted INCLUDING case :) (capitals first, then
smalls). also remember.. make sure the file is UTF-8 encoded! remember UTF-8! :)

btw - not now, but a bit later, i am happy to accept contributions of dict
files to go into the core code and just be a default install - at least from
source (the .bb's for OE can split these dicts out into packages if you want)

> El mar, 26-08-2008 a las 22:40 +1000, Carsten Haitzler escribió:
> > On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > babbled:
> > 
> > > I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
> > > love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
> > 
> > great! see below about adding a french dictionary :)
> > 
> > > However I have some isssues.
> > > 
> > > 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
> > > old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
> > > matter what I always get raster's one ?
> > 
> > this is a matter of qpe still making its keyboard and qpe and illume
> > clashing. it manages to make sure no big mess happens, but it means it's a
> > luck of the draw (first in, first served) as to which keyboard gets
> > displayed. :( can't turn qpe's keyboard off currently.
> > 
> > > 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
> > > predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
> > > pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
> > > several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
> > > It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
> > > displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
> > > supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
> > 
> > with illume's keyboard (my one) in the latest illume's you get a
> > dictionary. it should be possible to create a french dictionary -
> > take /usr/share/dict/words from your desktop (i assume you have a french
> > one) and:
> > 
> > sort -f words > French.dic
> > scp French.dic 192.168.0.202:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/
> > 
> > (assuming your FR is plugged in). then it will use french words to predict
> > - if you select the French dictionary. :)
> > 
> > but as such it will display the most likely matches in the dictionary based
> > on how far the "typo" is from the word (the closest wins). it doesn't try
> > and predict at all - only "fix" so you have to type all the letters - it
> > just makes up for typos and a "fat finger" on a "small screen". press
> > top-left dictionary icon to select dictionaries when no word is being
> > composed (select this to list ALL matches - EXACTLY what you typed will be
> > the first thing in the list always
> > - if you select it it gets added to your personal dictionary so it can match
> > and fix your typos later).
> > 
> > > Btw Is there a way to scroll through the suggestions of the predictive
> > > keyboard ?
> > 
> > illume's one? left dict icon above the keys of the keyboard - vertical list
> > of them. just drag it up and down - select the one you want. :)
> > 
> 
> 
> ___
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-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Al Johnson]

Are you thinking of the matchbox  keyboard?

On Tuesday 26 August 2008, Jelle De Loecker wrote:
> Jus tot egt things straight: how many keyboards are there?
>
> We have the qpe one, we have this terminal one (with the bevels and
> such) but wasn't there another one, a full keyboard with no fancy graphics?
>
> /Met vriendelijke groeten,/
>
> *Jelle De Loecker*
> Kipdola Studios - Tomberg
>
> David Samblas schreef:
> > I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
> > it works :)
> >
> > Note to Ubuntu/Debian users, the compatible dictionaries are installed
> > on /usr/share/dict/
> > if you dont find your lenguage there do
> >
> > #apt-cache search wordlist|grep ^w|sort
> >
> > to show avaiable lenguages
> >
> > change wspanish for your lenguage
> >
> > #apt-get install wspanish
> >
> > and
> >
> > then
> > # scp /usr/share/dict/spanish
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/spanish.di
> >c
> >
> > Avoid the shorting part because this dictionaries are already shorted
> > and depending on the locales you will only messit
> >
> > El mar, 26-08-2008 a las 22:40 +1000, Carsten Haitzler escribió:
> >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >> babbled:
> >>> I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
> >>> love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
> >>
> >> great! see below about adding a french dictionary :)
> >>
> >>> However I have some isssues.
> >>>
> >>> 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
> >>> old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
> >>> matter what I always get raster's one ?
> >>
> >> this is a matter of qpe still making its keyboard and qpe and illume
> >> clashing. it manages to make sure no big mess happens, but it means it's
> >> a luck of the draw (first in, first served) as to which keyboard gets
> >> displayed. :( can't turn qpe's keyboard off currently.
> >>
> >>> 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
> >>> predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
> >>> pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
> >>> several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
> >>> It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
> >>> displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
> >>> supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
> >>
> >> with illume's keyboard (my one) in the latest illume's you get a
> >> dictionary. it should be possible to create a french dictionary - take
> >> /usr/share/dict/words from your desktop (i assume you have a french one)
> >> and:
> >>
> >> sort -f words > French.dic
> >> scp French.dic
> >> 192.168.0.202:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/
> >>
> >> (assuming your FR is plugged in). then it will use french words to
> >> predict - if you select the French dictionary. :)
> >>
> >> but as such it will display the most likely matches in the dictionary
> >> based on how far the "typo" is from the word (the closest wins). it
> >> doesn't try and predict at all - only "fix" so you have to type all the
> >> letters - it just makes up for typos and a "fat finger" on a "small
> >> screen". press top-left dictionary icon to select dictionaries when no
> >> word is being composed (select this to list ALL matches - EXACTLY what
> >> you typed will be the first thing in the list always - if you select it
> >> it gets added to your personal dictionary so it can match and fix your
> >> typos later).
> >>
> >>> Btw Is there a way to scroll through the suggestions of the predictive
> >>> keyboard ?
> >>
> >> illume's one? left dict icon above the keys of the keyboard - vertical
> >> list of them. just drag it up and down - select the one you want. :)
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Jelle De Loecker]

Jus tot egt things straight: how many keyboards are there?

We have the qpe one, we have this terminal one (with the bevels and 
such) but wasn't there another one, a full keyboard with no fancy graphics?


/Met vriendelijke groeten,/

*Jelle De Loecker*
Kipdola Studios - Tomberg


David Samblas schreef:

I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
it works :)

Note to Ubuntu/Debian users, the compatible dictionaries are installed
on /usr/share/dict/
if you dont find your lenguage there do

#apt-cache search wordlist|grep ^w|sort

to show avaiable lenguages

change wspanish for your lenguage 


#apt-get install wspanish

and 

then 
# scp /usr/share/dict/spanish

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/spanish.dic

Avoid the shorting part because this dictionaries are already shorted
and depending on the locales you will only messit 


El mar, 26-08-2008 a las 22:40 +1000, Carsten Haitzler escribió:
  

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:



I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
  

great! see below about adding a french dictionary :)



However I have some isssues.

1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
matter what I always get raster's one ?
  

this is a matter of qpe still making its keyboard and qpe and illume clashing.
it manages to make sure no big mess happens, but it means it's a luck of the
draw (first in, first served) as to which keyboard gets displayed. :( can't
turn qpe's keyboard off currently.



2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
  

with illume's keyboard (my one) in the latest illume's you get a dictionary. it
should be possible to create a french dictionary - take /usr/share/dict/words
from your desktop (i assume you have a french one) and:

sort -f words > French.dic
scp French.dic 192.168.0.202:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/

(assuming your FR is plugged in). then it will use french words to predict - if
you select the French dictionary. :)

but as such it will display the most likely matches in the dictionary based on
how far the "typo" is from the word (the closest wins). it doesn't try and
predict at all - only "fix" so you have to type all the letters - it just makes
up for typos and a "fat finger" on a "small screen". press top-left dictionary
icon to select dictionaries when no word is being composed (select this to list
ALL matches - EXACTLY what you typed will be the first thing in the list always
- if you select it it gets added to your personal dictionary so it can match
and fix your typos later).



Btw Is there a way to scroll through the suggestions of the predictive
keyboard ?
  

illume's one? left dict icon above the keys of the keyboard - vertical list of
them. just drag it up and down - select the one you want. :)





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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[David Samblas]

I have followed th Raster indications to install spanish dictionary and
it works :)

Note to Ubuntu/Debian users, the compatible dictionaries are installed
on /usr/share/dict/
if you dont find your lenguage there do

#apt-cache search wordlist|grep ^w|sort

to show avaiable lenguages

change wspanish for your lenguage 

#apt-get install wspanish

and 

then 
# scp /usr/share/dict/spanish
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/spanish.dic

Avoid the shorting part because this dictionaries are already shorted
and depending on the locales you will only messit 

El mar, 26-08-2008 a las 22:40 +1000, Carsten Haitzler escribió:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
> 
> > I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
> > love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
> 
> great! see below about adding a french dictionary :)
> 
> > However I have some isssues.
> > 
> > 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
> > old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
> > matter what I always get raster's one ?
> 
> this is a matter of qpe still making its keyboard and qpe and illume clashing.
> it manages to make sure no big mess happens, but it means it's a luck of the
> draw (first in, first served) as to which keyboard gets displayed. :( can't
> turn qpe's keyboard off currently.
> 
> > 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
> > predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
> > pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
> > several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
> > It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
> > displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
> > supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
> 
> with illume's keyboard (my one) in the latest illume's you get a dictionary. 
> it
> should be possible to create a french dictionary - take /usr/share/dict/words
> from your desktop (i assume you have a french one) and:
> 
> sort -f words > French.dic
> scp French.dic 192.168.0.202:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/
> 
> (assuming your FR is plugged in). then it will use french words to predict - 
> if
> you select the French dictionary. :)
> 
> but as such it will display the most likely matches in the dictionary based on
> how far the "typo" is from the word (the closest wins). it doesn't try and
> predict at all - only "fix" so you have to type all the letters - it just 
> makes
> up for typos and a "fat finger" on a "small screen". press top-left dictionary
> icon to select dictionaries when no word is being composed (select this to 
> list
> ALL matches - EXACTLY what you typed will be the first thing in the list 
> always
> - if you select it it gets added to your personal dictionary so it can match
> and fix your typos later).
> 
> > Btw Is there a way to scroll through the suggestions of the predictive
> > keyboard ?
> 
> illume's one? left dict icon above the keys of the keyboard - vertical list of
> them. just drag it up and down - select the one you want. :)
> 


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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[julien cubizolles]

Le mardi 26 août 2008 à 17:15 +0530, Nishit Dave a écrit :

> 
> 
> 
> Btw Is there a way to scroll through the suggestions of the
> predictive
> keyboard ?
> 
> 
> 
> Flick your finger left or right.  Of course, that may result into a
> back/space.  


I just found out that pressing the upper-left switch-button of the
keyboard shows you the complete list of suggestions through which you
can finger scroll !



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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[The Rasterman]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:53 +0200 julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
babbled:

> I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
> love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).

great! see below about adding a french dictionary :)

> However I have some isssues.
> 
> 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
> old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
> matter what I always get raster's one ?

this is a matter of qpe still making its keyboard and qpe and illume clashing.
it manages to make sure no big mess happens, but it means it's a luck of the
draw (first in, first served) as to which keyboard gets displayed. :( can't
turn qpe's keyboard off currently.

> 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
> predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
> pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
> several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
> It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
> displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
> supposed to work or am I missing something here ?

with illume's keyboard (my one) in the latest illume's you get a dictionary. it
should be possible to create a french dictionary - take /usr/share/dict/words
from your desktop (i assume you have a french one) and:

sort -f words > French.dic
scp French.dic 192.168.0.202:/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts/

(assuming your FR is plugged in). then it will use french words to predict - if
you select the French dictionary. :)

but as such it will display the most likely matches in the dictionary based on
how far the "typo" is from the word (the closest wins). it doesn't try and
predict at all - only "fix" so you have to type all the letters - it just makes
up for typos and a "fat finger" on a "small screen". press top-left dictionary
icon to select dictionaries when no word is being composed (select this to list
ALL matches - EXACTLY what you typed will be the first thing in the list always
- if you select it it gets added to your personal dictionary so it can match
and fix your typos later).

> Btw Is there a way to scroll through the suggestions of the predictive
> keyboard ?

illume's one? left dict icon above the keys of the keyboard - vertical list of
them. just drag it up and down - select the one you want. :)

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Joseph Reeves]

I opened a ticket:

https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1864

Joseph



2008/8/26 Nishit Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:05 PM, julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
>> love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
>>
>> However I have some isssues.
>>
>> 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
>> old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
>> matter what I always get raster's one ?
>>
>> 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
>> predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
>> pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
>> several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
>> It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
>> displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
>> supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
>
> You are speaking for a lot of us.
>>
>>
>> Btw Is there a way to scroll through the suggestions of the predictive
>> keyboard ?
>>
> Flick your finger left or right.  Of course, that may result into a
> back/space.
>
> There are not many more depressing sights in the world than seeing that
> predictive keyboard come up at the wrong moment.  Is there any easy way to
> restart xserver from the terminal (as opposed to SSH)?
>
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>
>

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Re: ASU keyboards, again

[Nishit Dave]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:05 PM, julien cubizolles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> I've installed raster's image, mainly to get its great keyboard, and I
> love being able to switch modes/adding my own (french keyboard).
>
> However I have some isssues.
>
> 1 : sometimes, an application calls a keyboard and I get stuck with the
> old keyboard. Is there a way to prevent that from opening so that no
> matter what I always get raster's one ?
>
> 2 : I don't understand how "predicive" those two keyboards are. For me
> predictive would mean suggesting the n+1 (or n+p) character when I have
> pressed n keys. At the moment the only thing it does is suggesting
> several combination of n keys, to correct some typos I would have made.
> It's very annoying since the word I correctly typed isn't necessarily
> displayed among those suggestions. Is that how a "predictive" is
> supposed to work or am I missing something here ?
>

You are speaking for a lot of us.

>
>
> Btw Is there a way to scroll through the suggestions of the predictive
> keyboard ?
>
> Flick your finger left or right.  Of course, that may result into a
back/space.

There are not many more depressing sights in the world than seeing that
predictive keyboard come up at the wrong moment.  Is there any easy way to
restart xserver from the terminal (as opposed to SSH)?
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