Re: Bluetooth headsets
Paul Fertser wrote: Kahless ha...@gmx.li writes: - Which Headset do you use? My Headset (Bluetrek Tattoo) does not give me any sound. I can pair and connect it, but while phoning, theres just a (like no line) Buzz/Static-Noise. Hm, sounds just like the one i tried to use. Please read the wiki page Manually_using_bluetooth, the section where it talks about bluez4 and GSM headsets. Then borrow another headset and try with it. If it works, please add information about both to the list of bluetooth headsets [1]. It'd also be interesting to try disable_esco=1 but i doubt it will help. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/List_of_bluetooth_headsets As far as I know QTMoko/QTE currently has no support for the bluez4 stuff that is needed to connect gsm audio to bluetooth. I think that is what Radek needs to add, right now it seems to totally ignore the audio state for bluetooth, it can just pair. (I may be wrong as I have not looked at the bluetooth code for qt in a while). -- Jim Morris, http://blog.wolfman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets
Jim Morris m...@e4net.com writes: As far as I know QTMoko/QTE currently has no support for the bluez4 stuff that is needed to connect gsm audio to bluetooth. There's nothing bluetooth-specific about loading a statefile (and applying some workarounds). And the only bluez4-specific call to actually activate the headset is one simple dbus Play(). -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets
Paul Fertser wrote: Jim Morris m...@e4net.com writes: As far as I know QTMoko/QTE currently has no support for the bluez4 stuff that is needed to connect gsm audio to bluetooth. There's nothing bluetooth-specific about loading a statefile (and applying some workarounds). And the only bluez4-specific call to actually activate the headset is one simple dbus Play(). True if you are on FSO or equivalent, but the OP was referring to QTMOKO, there is no dbus i/f to BT yet as far as I know. -- Jim Morris, http://blog.wolfman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets
Jim Morris m...@e4net.com writes: Paul Fertser wrote: Jim Morris m...@e4net.com writes: As far as I know QTMoko/QTE currently has no support for the bluez4 stuff that is needed to connect gsm audio to bluetooth. There's nothing bluetooth-specific about loading a statefile (and applying some workarounds). And the only bluez4-specific call to actually activate the headset is one simple dbus Play(). True if you are on FSO or equivalent, but the OP was referring to QTMOKO, there is no dbus i/f to BT yet as far as I know. Nope, Play() is bluez4 call. So even if you're using qtmoko it doesn't matter because it's provided by bluetoothd, not fso/whatever. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets in FSO
Paul Fertser ha scritto: DJDAS dj...@djdas.net writes: Franky Van Liedekerke ha scritto: Framework already supports BT headsets. The fact GUI is missing shows the lack of interest from end-users, well, i think it'll change soon. hmm ... I thought end-users were people actually using the phone, not unix-hackers ... That's why I wrote it ;) It's very nice you work on it. Too bad you use a dead-born deprecated distro ;) Well, to be honest I'm a maintainer of a distro called FDTF based on Om2008.9+FDOM(September version) I customized for the Italian community at http://forum.telefoninux.org. I still use it because it's quite stable, telephony works (little qtopia bugs but it's daily usable) and with the community suggestions I added various customizations in the startup scripts, keyboards, themes and so on. I'm stuck with it because I have no much time to re-test everything in FSO-based distros and I don't like their telephony-PIM (qtopia IMHO still rocks hard). So this is my development environment with pros cons obviously, but I think it's better to have a daily quite stable phone rather than something updated but quite unusable, I'll wait for real stable releases with no one who wants to recreate the wheel from scratch after something goes wrong at the end of the job ;) As Franky already mentioned, bluez3 and bluez4 interfaces are completely different, so porting won't be that easy :-/ No probs ;) It's just a matter of code One of the reasons FSO integrates functionality of powering and resetting devices is exactly that. Higher level app devs shouldn't be bothered with kernel changes, FSO quickly adopts to it and you receive all updates free. In fact, you might like the idea of FSO, take a look at specs ;) Oh, I know and appreciate FSO way but I need something really stable and working, not something randomly working after an update :P Seriously: as I said above I'll make BlueMoko compatible with FSO but for my daily use I'll stick with my FDTF until a real stable working out-of-the-box distro will be released ;) Thanks you, bye! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets in FSO
Paul Fertser ha scritto: Franky Van Liedekerke liede...@telenet.be writes: And BTW, FSO-based distros should now support bluetooth headsets out of the box, one needs to follow instructions from [1]. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Once_Again.2C_Bluetooth_Headset_on_Freerunner I beg to differ, but if those instructions mean out of the box, then all commandline things are out of the box as well. Commandline instructions are very nice, but when you're in a car and try to pair with the car bluetooth, this is not practical at all. You need a gui there... You Qtopia guys seem to have a quite unusual (for a unix hackers) POV ;) Framework already supports BT headsets. The fact GUI is missing shows the lack of interest from end-users, well, i think it'll change soon. The fact stable telephony is still missing since 2 years doesn't seem lack of interest :P Seriously: BlueMoko is intended mainly as GUI for Bluetooth because every 20€ phone has its own... I started as proof-of-concept with those dependencies as they are the most stable to my daily use distro and working properly for my experiments, but consider it uses only DBUS calls to Bluez so if APIs don't change too much (I have to verify) it should work with Bluez4 too and for FSO I plan to integrate compatibility with it to let it work with every distro (except qtopia based obviously, but they should still have their BT GUI). Furthermore I didn't read of A2DP support in FSO and BlueMoko started with it in mind ;) If FSO team agrees too, they can integrate my future plans (file exchange, AVRCP, networking...) and we can work together to provide full BT support, provided I'd like to customize GUI handling to achieve compatibility with different toolkits (GTK, Elementary, console, etc..) Bye! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets in FSO (was: Re: [Om2008.x] Announcing BlueMoko 1.0b1)
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: Franky Van Liedekerke liede...@telenet.be writes: And BTW, FSO-based distros should now support bluetooth headsets out of the box, one needs to follow instructions from [1]. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Once_Again.2C_Bluetooth_Headset_on_Freerunner I beg to differ, but if those instructions mean out of the box, then all commandline things are out of the box as well. Commandline instructions are very nice, but when you're in a car and try to pair with the car bluetooth, this is not practical at all. You need a gui there... You Qtopia guys seem to have a quite unusual (for a unix hackers) POV ;) then you try to enter your commands on your FR in your car ... I think I just as well can put my phone aside, drive to my destination, tell them to wait half an hour, go back and start typing :-) Framework already supports BT headsets. The fact GUI is missing shows the lack of interest from end-users, well, i think it'll change soon. hmm ... I thought end-users were people actually using the phone, not unix-hackers ... but I saw the announcement of a bluetooth gui for Om2008, aboeit for bluez3. Oh wait, that's what qtopia does as well :-) But since the newer kernels are there: no bluez3, thus no qtopia bluetooth ... hopefully for Om2009 final that'll change. Also, the person that wrote that wiki says However, I couldn't get an actual voice over it, just crackling. If this is no longer true, somebody should change it. Somebody should finally try to use this support and report the findings. Of course, Jan, who wrote the code, tried it and it worked for him. And BTW please take into account it seems that not all headsets are compatible with BT chip we use (at least it was the case some time ago, i guess i need to try again with my not-working headset and latest bluez and bluetooth-testing kernel branch). heh, trying to get your non-working headset to work, are you? :-) Franky ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets in FSO
Franky Van Liedekerke ha scritto: Framework already supports BT headsets. The fact GUI is missing shows the lack of interest from end-users, well, i think it'll change soon. hmm ... I thought end-users were people actually using the phone, not unix-hackers ... That's why I wrote it ;) but I saw the announcement of a bluetooth gui for Om2008, aboeit for bluez3. Well those are minimum requirements as I couldn't test other distros but, as I wrote in the last post, I use only DBUS calls to Bluez so maybe it should work on other distros (probably in FSO to given I don't use FSO calls yet...). The only userspace dependency is PyGTK but I think almost every distro has it installed. I think the only real issue could be the power and reset /sys files which change between different kernel versions... I accept suggestions and patches too :P Thank you, bye! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets in FSO
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 4:11 PM, DJDAS dj...@djdas.net wrote: Franky Van Liedekerke ha scritto: Framework already supports BT headsets. The fact GUI is missing shows the lack of interest from end-users, well, i think it'll change soon. hmm ... I thought end-users were people actually using the phone, not unix-hackers ... That's why I wrote it ;) but I saw the announcement of a bluetooth gui for Om2008, aboeit for bluez3. Well those are minimum requirements as I couldn't test other distros but, as I wrote in the last post, I use only DBUS calls to Bluez so maybe it should work on other distros (probably in FSO to given I don't use FSO calls yet...). The only userspace dependency is PyGTK but I think almost every distro has it installed. I think the only real issue could be the power and reset /sys files which change between different kernel versions... I accept suggestions and patches too :P sure you do :-) DBUS calls have changed quite a lot between bluez3 and bluez4. I face the same problem for QtEi, but I don't feel like doing all that work on my own there (it's quite a big code change). So for now QtEi has no bluetooth in newer kernels (if they don't provide the bluez3 package anymore). Franky ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets in FSO
DJDAS dj...@djdas.net writes: Franky Van Liedekerke ha scritto: Framework already supports BT headsets. The fact GUI is missing shows the lack of interest from end-users, well, i think it'll change soon. hmm ... I thought end-users were people actually using the phone, not unix-hackers ... That's why I wrote it ;) It's very nice you work on it. Too bad you use a dead-born deprecated distro ;) but I saw the announcement of a bluetooth gui for Om2008, aboeit for bluez3. Well those are minimum requirements as I couldn't test other distros but, as I wrote in the last post, I use only DBUS calls to Bluez so maybe it should work on other distros (probably in FSO to given I don't use FSO calls yet...). As Franky already mentioned, bluez3 and bluez4 interfaces are completely different, so porting won't be that easy :-/ The only userspace dependency is PyGTK but I think almost every distro has it installed. Yep, no problems with that. I think the only real issue could be the power and reset /sys files which change between different kernel versions... I accept suggestions and patches too :P One of the reasons FSO integrates functionality of powering and resetting devices is exactly that. Higher level app devs shouldn't be bothered with kernel changes, FSO quickly adopts to it and you receive all updates free. In fact, you might like the idea of FSO, take a look at specs ;) -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 04:21, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: Levy, We are very Keen to do business in Brazil. Maddog and I converse about this weekly on how to do a better job in Brazil. I'll work to get Him and the disty there some parts for upgrades. Hi Steve. Nice to hear! Thank you for your answer. []s Levy. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 03:50, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: We are just in the process of working out those details. I've shipped the parts to fix phones to a few individuals and disty who have asked. Have here, at Brazil, anyone? Between 180 millions of people, and a huge country, we have around 20 FRs (and everyone thinks like we are not part of the America). Please, sell to us a board with the fix and *maybe* an upgrade! []s Lewis ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Levy, We are very Keen to do business in Brazil. Maddog and I converse about this weekly on how to do a better job in Brazil. I'll work to get Him and the disty there some parts for upgrades. Levy wrote: On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 03:50, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: We are just in the process of working out those details. I've shipped the parts to fix phones to a few individuals and disty who have asked. Have here, at Brazil, anyone? Between 180 millions of people, and a huge country, we have around 20 FRs (and everyone thinks like we are not part of the America). Please, sell to us a board with the fix and *maybe* an upgrade! []s Lewis ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Perhaps I can clear up some of the confusion about the official fix. What we have is this as a rough timeline etc. 1. We have Joerg's SOP. Joerg, Werner, Tony Tu and I worked to get this document reviewed and out to the community. At that point I wasnt apprised of any wired headset mic issue. Joerge put out a draft. I Wasnt aware of any wired headset mic issue. I think even if I had been I still would have let the document out. 2. We asked if engineering had verified the change and they had. However, We wanted to insure that the SOP could actually be followed by somebody in the feild. That it was it good enough to pass out to the community and tell people to just follow the instrcutions. 3. Several individuals in the field followed the instructions and reported back that the fix worked. ( I dont recall any of the early reports back indicating issues with wired hreadset mics. Nobody tested it I suppose ) 4. We asked for a test proceedure that would indicate whether the fix actually succeeded. The answer was our standard audio test. I'm pretty certain that it doesnt test a wired headset mic. 5. Engineering approved the SOP. 6. Now we need to actually test the yeild rate. One individual in the feild had screwed up his phone. I replaced it free of charge. And so we contacted a rework house to bid on fixing the remaining stock of A6 we have. They took the SOP, reworked some boards and gave us a quote. Given that the yield rate was unknown we planned to do sample rework of a couple hundred to see what the actual cost is. Since A7 is fairly close to shipping, it made more sense to the team to hold off on the rework and focus on getting A7 shipping. Now thats just the process for OM to fix the phones it has in store. What about those in the feild? Which is what the list really cares more about. What is our official position and Policy? Well, first and foremost we tend toward solutions that involve the community. Volunteers. We do it in software by having write code, we do it in marketing by having community members man trade show booths, we did it in sales with the group purchase, so when it comes to fixing the A6 in the field we are going to start with a volunteer approach. I think the actual idea came from somebody in the community who suggested that people bring their FR to a local show and they get somebody to fix phones. Building on that idea we throw in the party idea. So first and foremost this is going to be a community effort. We are just in the process of working out those details. I've shipped the parts to fix phones to a few individuals and disty who have asked. and spare phones for those that get borked up ( how many should that be??) There are some volunteers with soldering irons ready to do their best. Will there be a program beyond this? I don't know. It depends on how well the volunteer fix it approach goes. But we've got other ideas that we will test out there as well. Right now We ae doing what we can with the people have and the resources at hand. Is it going to take longer than we like? yes. will everyone on the list be happy? no. Paul Fertser wrote: ezuall ezu...@gmail.com writes: Would it be worth while to start a petition for the official fix in the wiki No. They obviously know that community is extremely irritated about it and want to hear _any_ official statement. But they prefer being silent. I guess we'll need to wait for another month for the final clarifications. And btw, in case you missed it, there're already 2 officially (OM-the-company) supported buzz rework parties planned. And don't forget that the proposed rework doesn't fix wired headset mic, it will still produce a lot of buzz. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Steve, all, On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: Perhaps I can clear up some of the confusion about the official fix. What we have is this as a rough timeline etc. [Big snip] Steve, thanks for the official words on this. I assume (yes, I know about assumptions) that people tend to get unhappy if they don't hear anything 'official'. I guess people get impatient if there is nothing they can do. It's a community effort after all, as you said. Christ van Willegen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Thank you for the feedback Steve, Please note that this was never meant to be an attack on Openmoko, just a question that was nagging me for a while there. I really meant what I said when saying I am a fanboy. Now I have nothing left to winge about, and I've used up my last questions. Am I happy now? Yes, just the feedback is enough. I don't ask questions so people can say what I want to hear, I ask them for the real answers, and that's what you gave us. Thanks again and all the best ezuall -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Buzz-Issues---Last-Questions%2C-I-promise-tp2509041p2531122.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
3. Several individuals in the field followed the instructions and reported back that the fix worked. ( I dont recall any of the early reports back indicating issues with wired hreadset mics. Nobody tested it I suppose ) well, i asked for it a long time ago, long before the buzz was fully identified. the answer i got was to try a ferrite bead around the headset's wire, which did not help at all. then the the buzz issue gained a lot of momentum, but nobody ever mentioned it to be different from the buzz with the wired hs -- so i simply assumed it to be the same issue and thus to be fixed with the sop available. from somebody in the community who suggested that people bring their FR to a local show and they get somebody to fix phones. Building on that idea we throw in the party idea. So first and foremost this is going to be a community effort. i have no problem with volunteer work and the party idea either (at least it allows to show up in person and have it fixed almost immediately, and not having it posted somewhere and being days w/o phone). but so far there was no definite answer about what happens in a case of mors in tabula, ie the fr is dead afterwards -- the best was something like maybe om will replace those. if om is willing to state that they are to replace phones killed by applying the fix according to the sop, my concerns are resolved. according to the latest news on the headset buzz i don't think there will ever be a sensible field applicable fix, so i would have to live with the internal buzz fix and the workarounds sketched out. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
thanks ezuall, I never took it as an attack on OM. There are some things we never counted on in building a business. Things you learn over time. Like doing field repairs. It involves whole departments and staff that are simply not present at OM. In Marketing we are only a couple people deep. Me the VP and a couple others who also have sales duties. Still, we picked up this task and will drive it forward at the best pace we can. ezuall wrote: Thank you for the feedback Steve, Please note that this was never meant to be an attack on Openmoko, just a question that was nagging me for a while there. I really meant what I said when saying I am a fanboy. Now I have nothing left to winge about, and I've used up my last questions. Am I happy now? Yes, just the feedback is enough. I don't ask questions so people can say what I want to hear, I ask them for the real answers, and that's what you gave us. Thanks again and all the best ezuall ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
arne anka wrote: 3. Several individuals in the field followed the instructions and reported back that the fix worked. ( I dont recall any of the early reports back indicating issues with wired hreadset mics. Nobody tested it I suppose ) well, i asked for it a long time ago, long before the buzz was fully identified. the answer i got was to try a ferrite bead around the headset's wire, which did not help at all. then the the buzz issue gained a lot of momentum, but nobody ever mentioned it to be different from the buzz with the wired hs -- so i simply assumed it to be the same issue and thus to be fixed with the sop available. I suppose it also didnt get on our radar screen because we dont supply or test any wired headset mic. from somebody in the community who suggested that people bring their FR to a local show and they get somebody to fix phones. Building on that idea we throw in the party idea. So first and foremost this is going to be a community effort. i have no problem with volunteer work and the party idea either (at least it allows to show up in person and have it fixed almost immediately, and not having it posted somewhere and being days w/o phone). but so far there was no definite answer about what happens in a case of mors in tabula, ie the fr is dead afterwards -- the best was something like maybe om will replace those. Assuming a good tech the yield rate should be very high and I would replace phones killed in action. I've already done that for one guy who tried and failed. The key is getting a good tech you can trust. If we can assure he knows what he is doing, then those killed in action would be replaced. In one case I think we just handled it by paying the tech in phones. Say, he gets 5 phones for a fix it party. If he's good he walks away with 5 phones to sell. If he's bad, he has to use his pay of 5 phones to replace the ones he breaks. if om is willing to state that they are to replace phones killed by applying the fix according to the sop, my concerns are resolved. The key points here would be determining that the SOP was followed by a competetent technician, then yes. according to the latest news on the headset buzz i don't think there will ever be a sensible field applicable fix, so i would have to live with the internal buzz fix and the workarounds sketched out. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
- you need another set of headphones with 2.5 plug Hmm, I don't see the point here. Can be done with any headset/headphones, including the FR accessory ones. Probably I got you wrong. there was some discussion about the pinout of those things months ago -- did that refer to headsets only? and, i don't see headphones with 2.5 plug for sale everywhere. but. of course, it's a minor issue. only to make it absolutely clear: there is no way to modify a wired headset to make it work buzz-free reliable? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de writes: - you need another set of headphones with 2.5 plug Hmm, I don't see the point here. Can be done with any headset/headphones, including the FR accessory ones. Probably I got you wrong. there was some discussion about the pinout of those things months ago -- did that refer to headsets only? and, i don't see headphones with 2.5 plug for sale everywhere. pinout is a non-issue. Yes, the FR's pinout is incompatible to 3-ring 2.5mm plug of regular headphones. But you can get 4-ring 2.5mm from a store. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
using bt means: enable bt, power on headset, connect, pray your partner has not hung up annoyed. :) I think a more efficient way would be to keep the headset connected to the device and play only when you get the call. My guess is that this is what other phones do... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Hi again, I can tell that these e-mails of mine will either age-out like so many regarding this issue have in the past, or the community will get upset because of my constant and irritating questioning. Would it be worth while to start a petition for the official fix in the wiki (As I said in the past this is not to force a fix into existence, only to get official word on whether it will ever be available)? That way I can stop filling up your inboxes with e-mails that you are probably already tired of. Thanks ezuall -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Buzz-Issues---Last-Questions%2C-I-promise-tp2509041p2520061.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
ezuall ezu...@gmail.com writes: Would it be worth while to start a petition for the official fix in the wiki No. They obviously know that community is extremely irritated about it and want to hear _any_ official statement. But they prefer being silent. I guess we'll need to wait for another month for the final clarifications. And btw, in case you missed it, there're already 2 officially (OM-the-company) supported buzz rework parties planned. And don't forget that the proposed rework doesn't fix wired headset mic, it will still produce a lot of buzz. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:53, Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: And don't forget that the proposed rework doesn't fix wired headset mic, it will still produce a lot of buzz. Oh ? I had not seen this info yet... :-( Is this the same buzz as before rework or another problem ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
And don't forget that the proposed rework doesn't fix wired headset mic, it will still produce a lot of buzz. how's that? i lived under the impression that the buzz is basically one buzz and the hw fix is intended to end all buzz. any sources proving your statement available? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de writes: And don't forget that the proposed rework doesn't fix wired headset mic, it will still produce a lot of buzz. how's that? i lived under the impression that the buzz is basically one buzz and the hw fix is intended to end all buzz. any sources proving your statement available? Schematics. Or ask Joerg. Basically the idea is that the buzz gets to the MICBIAS line via the 4th pin of the headphone receptable (that is mic input). The longer antenna you attach to it, the more RF you get. Then it's detected somewhere inside the Wolfson and comes back via the same MICBIAS line this time as a very strong audio frequency signal. With internal mic you can use a large cap to filter it on one side of the mic and get the signal from the other side because it's connected in a differential way. With the headset mic it's not possible because it has only one line. The rework for that would take lifting the can, desoldering one small R, soldering two of them in parallel to the same place (already tricky enough!) and adding a big cap to gnd (and free space inside the can is very limited). So, not practically possible. Read the schematics. OTOH you can use headphones and _internal_ mic for GSM after buzz-fixing it. NB: Factory-produced A8 will have ferrite beads in place (so RF will not get anywhere it can be detected in the first place), and that should probably solve all known buzz problems. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
On Mon, 2009-03-23 at 16:51 +0300, Paul Fertser wrote: arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de writes: And don't forget that the proposed rework doesn't fix wired headset mic, it will still produce a lot of buzz. how's that? i lived under the impression that the buzz is basically one buzz and the hw fix is intended to end all buzz. any sources proving your statement available? Schematics. Or ask Joerg. Basically the idea is that the buzz gets to the MICBIAS line via the 4th pin of the headphone receptable (that is mic input). The longer antenna you attach to it, the more RF you get. Then it's detected somewhere inside the Wolfson and comes back via the same MICBIAS line this time as a very strong audio frequency signal. With internal mic you can use a large cap to filter it on one side of the mic and get the signal from the other side because it's connected in a differential way. With the headset mic it's not possible because it has only one line. The rework for that would take lifting the can, desoldering one small R, soldering two of them in parallel to the same place (already tricky enough!) and adding a big cap to gnd (and free space inside the can is very limited). So, not practically possible. Read the schematics. OTOH you can use headphones and _internal_ mic for GSM after buzz-fixing it. NB: Factory-produced A8 will have ferrite beads in place (so RF will not get anywhere it can be detected in the first place), and that should probably solve all known buzz problems. Just a wild guess, but is it possible to replace the headphone receptable with a shielded one? Would perhaps be more of a DIY job then replacing SMD resistors and add SMD caps. Kind regards, Ed ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com writes: R, soldering two of them in parallel to the same place (already s/parallel/series/ -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
As I've been asked to comment by Paul... Yes, this is accurate info. Big-C stopping buzz for internal mic only. Shielding headset may or may not work. There's been reports of stopping or reducing hs-buzz by adding a huge bead next to or inside the hs-plug, to stop RF from entering the device via hs-cable. Anyway this will help to reduce hs-buzz to what it's been for internal mic prior to big-C rework only, as internally generated buzz remains the same with buzzfix for MICBIAS voltage to headset (Paul comprehensively explained why) cheers jOERG Am Mo 23. März 2009 schrieb Paul Fertser: Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com writes: R, soldering two of them in parallel to the same place (already s/parallel/series/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Yes, this is accurate info. Big-C stopping buzz for internal mic only. well, that's pretty disappointing. making a call and simultaneously doing something with the phone requires a headset -- when a call comes in it is easy to plug in the wired headset and off you go. using bt means: enable bt, power on headset, connect, pray your partner has not hung up annoyed. having bt on always eats power and i don't like to walk around like a steiff's teddy bear with a button in my ear, looking like one of these hey, i am important! idiots. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Am Mo 23. März 2009 schrieb arne anka: Yes, this is accurate info. Big-C stopping buzz for internal mic only. well, that's pretty disappointing. I agree. Anyway that's as good as it gets. You seen Paul's comment about using internal mic in conjunction with headphones/headset for GSM purposes? /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
You seen Paul's comment about using internal mic in conjunction with headphones/headset for GSM purposes? yes. but it has two (and maybe a half) drawbacks - you need another set of headphones with 2.5 plug - someone needs to prepare a state file for that scenario -- i am incapable to understand that alsa lingo or read the charts the half: what about the sound when you hold the phone so you can use the stylus or your fingers? will the mic pick up the voice in good quality? will my hand interfere somehow? the tapping and scartching? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 16:50, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: making a call and simultaneously doing something with the phone requires a headset -- when a call comes in it is easy to plug in the wired headset and off you go. using bt means: enable bt, power on headset, connect, pray your partner has not hung up annoyed. having bt on always eats power and i don't like to walk around like a steiff's teddy bear with a button in my ear, looking like one of these hey, i am important! idiots. Agreed. I am loosing faith in ever having a really usable freerunner... I am now less willing the effort to have the buzz rework done, for only a partial result... On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 17:13, Joerg Reisenweber jo...@openmoko.org wrote: I agree. Anyway that's as good as it gets. You seen Paul's comment about using internal mic in conjunction with headphones/headset for GSM purposes? Except in some cases, not really useful. Usually not have the phone close to my mouth when I use the headset. So internal mic would have to be over amplified, so quality going down and ambiant sounds getting annoying. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Am Mo 23. März 2009 schrieb arne anka: You seen Paul's comment about using internal mic in conjunction with headphones/headset for GSM purposes? yes. but it has two (and maybe a half) drawbacks - you need another set of headphones with 2.5 plug Hmm, I don't see the point here. Can be done with any headset/headphones, including the FR accessory ones. Probably I got you wrong. - someone needs to prepare a state file for that scenario -- i am incapable to understand that alsa lingo or read the charts NP, I'll supply one. the half: what about the sound when you hold the phone so you can use the stylus or your fingers? will the mic pick up the voice in good quality? Depends on distance mouth-mic. You can test right now. will my hand interfere somehow? Same here. Probably not. the tapping and scartching? Dunno. Good point. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the resque (was: Re: Buzz Issues - Last Questions, I promise)
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:18:42 +0300 Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, i can't answer to any of these questions, but i want to notify you and other community members that support for bluetooth headsets in FSO is coming and it will have neither buzz nor echo issues. When testing my bluetooth headset in FSO, I had big problems with the sound quality. I'll quite my own mail from the thread Re: Problems with ASoC and Bluetooth routing: Another (I guess unrelated) problem I have is that the sound through the headset is quite bad. I hear a faint echo of myself and the sound has a sharp metallic tone to it. My girlfriend in the other end also complained that the sound was so low that it was difficult to hear the conversation. Perhaps it's possible to resolve these things with better ALSA state files, but at least when I tried it, the sound was actually better through the phone. Anyway, the A2DP sound is quite good, so I suppose there is hope :-) // Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Simon Kagstrom simon.kagst...@gmail.com writes: Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, i can't answer to any of these questions, but i want to notify you and other community members that support for bluetooth headsets in FSO is coming and it will have neither buzz nor echo issues. Another (I guess unrelated) problem I have is that the sound through the headset is quite bad. I hear a faint echo of myself and the sound has a sharp metallic tone to it. My girlfriend in the other end also complained that the sound was so low that it was difficult to hear the conversation. Are you sure the echo of yourself is definetely bluetooth-related? Because there're quite some cases in gsm communications where one can hear echo of his voice, i had this myself numerous times using regular dumb cell phone. As to the low signal fed to calypso, well, just look at the sound routing diagram and tweak mixer settings, i guess that's an easy one to fix. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:23:40 +0300 Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: Another (I guess unrelated) problem I have is that the sound through the headset is quite bad. I hear a faint echo of myself and the sound has a sharp metallic tone to it. My girlfriend in the other end also complained that the sound was so low that it was difficult to hear the conversation. Are you sure the echo of yourself is definetely bluetooth-related? Because there're quite some cases in gsm communications where one can hear echo of his voice, i had this myself numerous times using regular dumb cell phone. No, I'm not sure. It might not be bluetooth-related, but perhaps is caused by the mixer settings. I don't hear my own echo when talking without the bluetooth headset though. As to the low signal fed to calypso, well, just look at the sound routing diagram and tweak mixer settings, i guess that's an easy one to fix. Yes, and maybe the metallic sound is possible to fix with this as well. I've tried changing mixer settings in alsamixer somewhat at random (basically turning all knobs), but wihtout getting any real improvement. Anyway, I'm sure it's possible to get this working some way and at least for me it would be a huge usability improvement of the phone. // Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Simon Kagstrom simon.kagst...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:23:40 +0300 Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: Another (I guess unrelated) problem I have is that the sound through the headset is quite bad. I hear a faint echo of myself and the sound has a sharp metallic tone to it. My girlfriend in the other end also complained that the sound was so low that it was difficult to hear the conversation. Are you sure the echo of yourself is definetely bluetooth-related? Because there're quite some cases in gsm communications where one can hear echo of his voice, i had this myself numerous times using regular dumb cell phone. No, I'm not sure. It might not be bluetooth-related, but perhaps is caused by the mixer settings. I don't hear my own echo when talking without the bluetooth headset though. Is it statistically-proven? As to the low signal fed to calypso, well, just look at the sound routing diagram and tweak mixer settings, i guess that's an easy one to fix. Yes, and maybe the metallic sound is possible to fix with this as well. I've tried changing mixer settings in alsamixer somewhat at random (basically turning all knobs), Hm, you know about http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem routing diagram with alsa control names, don't you? -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:13:07 +0300 Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: No, I'm not sure. It might not be bluetooth-related, but perhaps is caused by the mixer settings. I don't hear my own echo when talking without the bluetooth headset though. Is it statistically-proven? I don't claim to test these things statistically :-) It's just the feeling I get after having tested both methods in the same location. I'd just like to encourage other people to try it out and get their own feeling for how it works. Perhaps it's better elsewhere, I don't know, but I would guess that the ALSA state files need some work. If you don't believe me, just try it yourself. If you get better results, let the world know! Yes, and maybe the metallic sound is possible to fix with this as well. I've tried changing mixer settings in alsamixer somewhat at random (basically turning all knobs), Hm, you know about http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem routing diagram with alsa control names, don't you? Yes. I spent a lot of time trying to get this working as you can see from the previous mail threads. // Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bluetooth headsets to the rescue
Great feedback everybody, I have no doubts regarding the community's dedication to solutions to this issue. And I really appreciate all the hard work you guys are doing. That said, I'm not going to stop asking for final word on the official fix. If it is possible and practical it will be provided, if not Openmoko should just say: Listen guys, we're sorry that thing's didn't work out, but the fix just aint happening, it's DIY or nothing. Cheers ezuall -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Buzz-Issues---Last-Questions%2C-I-promise-tp2509041p2514859.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
