Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Eric van Horssen]

Marcel de Jong wrote:

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Paul Bohme wrote:

Mike wrote:

Marcel de Jong wrote:

ps.
I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)


You'll want to be careful here - is an odd thing that people get really
bent out of shape about..  Have no idea why.
Interesting discussion: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


What I'm missing in that 'discussion' is a valid alternative.
A Thunderbird is no Elm. Sure it may work great with his
email-reader(s), it sure as heck doesn't in mine. :-(

oh well.. *shrug* :)

greetings,
Marcel


Hello Marcel,

Do I understand correctly that you use Thunderbird?
And that you think Thunderbird isn't able to
a) filter this list?
or
b) do a reply to all?

If so, I'll try to be of some assistence:

Case a)
In Thunderbird goto Tools; Message Filters...; New...
Instead of "Subject" choose "Customize..."
Create a "New message header:" "List-Id"  by ADDing it to the list

Use this in a new Filter Rule which checks for "List-Id" "contains" 
"community.lists.openmoko.org" (without the quotes)

Case b)
In the Thunderbird menu you will find that Reply is CTRL-R
And Reply to All is simply . CTRL-SHIFT-R

Good luck in extending the use of Thunderbird!!




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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Mike]

Andreas Kostyrka wrote:

* Mike [070116 00:11]:
I agree with this, and I'd also like to add that this list should also auto-prepend a marker in the subject line like most other lists do, for example [OMOKO-COM] so that we can set up 
mail filters.

But it does already set a marker:

List-Id: List for OpenMoko community discussion 

Andreas


Yea it's just that I can't see at a glance in my inbox whether it's an 
openmoko email or an email to me.



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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Andreas Kostyrka]

* Mike Krier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070116 00:11]:
> I agree with this, and I'd also like to add that this list should also 
> auto-prepend a marker in the subject line like most other lists do, for 
> example [OMOKO-COM] so that we can set up 
> mail filters.
But it does already set a marker:

List-Id: List for OpenMoko community discussion 

Andreas

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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Andreas Kostyrka]

* Marcel de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070115 23:24]:
> On 1/15/07, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >I'm in the US, in New York city.  What networks can I use a Neo1973
> >phone on?  Do all GSM carriers accept all GSM phones?
> >
> >
> 
> In contrast to CDMA phones, a GSM phone isn't normally locked to a
> carrier, only the GSM-chip (SIMcard) that is inside your GSM phone is
> locked to your carrier.
> Some carriers offer you bundles with phones that are simlocked
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMLOCKS), which means that the phone
> and the SIMcard are paired, but if you have a SIMcard you can put it
> in any GSM-phone.
> 
> So no, they can't deny your phone.

Well, if they take some extreme measures they probably could deny it,
based on EMEI numbers. But no, it probably will work, although some
networks callcenter support might have problems and insist to walk you
through a specific phone model menu to do something ;(

SIM stands for Subscriber Identity Module btw :)

Basically phones come in different variants:
-) unlocked, you can put any SIM into it.
-) locked to SIMs specific operator.
-) locked to a specific SIM.

The last two are usually refered to as a SIMLOCK or simlocked phone,
and one usually gets one these in subsidized contracts. OTOH this is
strictly operator/country specific. There is one additional thing,
branded phones.

-) branded => that's orthogonal to the above, it means that the
firmware of the phone was altered to do things for a given operator.
Usually this involves logos, binding certain hotkeys to a fixed WAP
dialin. Or some US operators have been known to kill features that
would allow transfering images out of the phone with something else
than their data plan :(

It's orthogonal, because there are branded phones that are not
simlocked, and one can put a different SIM into it and use it.

As examples:
In Austria, most phones bought at a shop operated by a network are
simlocked to the network of the operator. (Speciality phones sometimes
are not, because they are sold in to small numbers)

In Germany, they like to brand the phones, but they usually come
without a simlock.

> The only limitation on which GSM-phones you can choose from depends on
> the frequency that is used in your country. But given that the Neo is
> quad band (it supports all current GSM-frequency ranges), they can't
> stop you from using the Neo.
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM#Radio_interface)
> 
> --
> Marcel
> 
> ps.
> I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
But it does. That's why you have a "group reply" function in your
mailer. Some advanced mailers might even have a special "list reply"
function *g*

OTOH, adding a Reply-To to the messages pointing to the list makes
replying just to the poster for offtopic messages hard.

> mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
> mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)A
Nope, most technical mailing lists work this way. Only mailing lists
targeted to endusers that might have troubles operating their MUAs are
setup to include a Reply-To usually.

Andreas

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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Koen Kooi]

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Hash: SHA1

Mike Krier schreef:
> Marcel de Jong wrote:
>> On 1/15/07, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm in the US, in New York city.  What networks can I use a Neo1973
>>> phone on?  Do all GSM carriers accept all GSM phones?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> In contrast to CDMA phones, a GSM phone isn't normally locked to a
>> carrier, only the GSM-chip (SIMcard) that is inside your GSM phone is
>> locked to your carrier.
>> Some carriers offer you bundles with phones that are simlocked
>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMLOCKS), which means that the phone
>> and the SIMcard are paired, but if you have a SIMcard you can put it
>> in any GSM-phone.
>>
>> So no, they can't deny your phone.
>> The only limitation on which GSM-phones you can choose from depends on
>> the frequency that is used in your country. But given that the Neo is
>> quad band (it supports all current GSM-frequency ranges), they can't
>> stop you from using the Neo.
>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM#Radio_interface)
>>
>> -- 
>> Marcel
>>
>> ps.
>> I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
>> mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
>> mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)
>>
> 
> I agree with this, and I'd also like to add that this list should also
> auto-prepend a marker in the subject line like most other lists do, for
> example [OMOKO-COM] so that we can set up mail filters.

No, need, just let procmail filter on the List-Id: header:

:0
* ^List-Id:.*community\.lists\.openmoko\.org
$MAILDIR/.OpenMoko/new


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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Marcin Juszkiewicz]

Dnia wtorek, 16 stycznia 2007 00:45, Marcel de Jong napisał:

> >>> I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
> >>> mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the
> >>> only mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)

Nearly all lists which I read are configured like that.

> > You'll want to be careful here - is an odd thing that people get
> > really bent out of shape about..  Have no idea why.
> > Interesting discussion:
> > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

> Okay, indeed very interesting, but still, currently I have to click
> Reply All (that's two steps in Gmail) if I want to reply to the list,

Pester gmail to add proper 'Reply to Mailing List' like it is in normal 
mailers?

-- 
JID: hrw-jabber.org
OpenEmbedded developer/consultant

   Could you please speak more slowly? I'm a masochist
   and I want to prolong the agony of this conversation.



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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Marcel de Jong]

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Paul Bohme wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>> Marcel de Jong wrote:
>>> ps.
>>> I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
>>> mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
>>> mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)
>>>
> 
> You'll want to be careful here - is an odd thing that people get really
> bent out of shape about..  Have no idea why.
> Interesting discussion: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> 
What I'm missing in that 'discussion' is a valid alternative.
A Thunderbird is no Elm. Sure it may work great with his
email-reader(s), it sure as heck doesn't in mine. :-(

oh well.. *shrug* :)

greetings,
Marcel
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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Mike writes:
>
>Yes I know that, I still vote for subject tags and reply-list.

I don't really care about subject tags, but would prefer reply-list.

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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Marcel de Jong]

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Paul Bohme wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>> Marcel de Jong wrote:
>>> ps.
>>> I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
>>> mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
>>> mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)
>>>
> 
> You'll want to be careful here - is an odd thing that people get really
> bent out of shape about..  Have no idea why.
> Interesting discussion: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> 

Okay, indeed very interesting, but still, currently I have to click
Reply All (that's two steps in Gmail) if I want to reply to the list,
and then cut and paste the list email address over to the "To" address
field (to overwrite address from the person whose message you are
responding to), two more steps.
That's a total of 4 steps just to reply to one message.
Sue me, I'm lazy (as should be all software developers and testers)

But I'll just follow those 4 steps, though it makes it kinda hard to
reply to this list via a mobile phone. (you don't want to know how much
KBs get wasted in those transactions) :-)

- --
Marcel
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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Mike]

Paul Bohme wrote:

Mike wrote:

Marcel de Jong wrote:

ps.
I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)



You'll want to be careful here - is an odd thing that people get really 
bent out of shape about..  Have no idea why.

Interesting discussion: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


I agree with this, and I'd also like to add that this list should also
auto-prepend a marker in the subject line like most other lists do, for
example [OMOKO-COM] so that we can set up mail filters.


There are a number of other headers that serve well for this.  If you 
examine the message, you'll see something similar to the following:


List-Id: List for OpenMoko community discussion 


List-Unsubscribe: ,

List-Archive: 
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Subscribe: ,

Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Any of these, particularly the List-Id would be perfect for mail sorting.

 -P


Yes I know that, I still vote for subject tags and reply-list.







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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Mike Krier]

Marcel de Jong wrote:

On 1/15/07, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I'm in the US, in New York city.  What networks can I use a Neo1973
phone on?  Do all GSM carriers accept all GSM phones?




In contrast to CDMA phones, a GSM phone isn't normally locked to a
carrier, only the GSM-chip (SIMcard) that is inside your GSM phone is
locked to your carrier.
Some carriers offer you bundles with phones that are simlocked
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMLOCKS), which means that the phone
and the SIMcard are paired, but if you have a SIMcard you can put it
in any GSM-phone.

So no, they can't deny your phone.
The only limitation on which GSM-phones you can choose from depends on
the frequency that is used in your country. But given that the Neo is
quad band (it supports all current GSM-frequency ranges), they can't
stop you from using the Neo.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM#Radio_interface)

--
Marcel

ps.
I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)



I agree with this, and I'd also like to add that this list should also
auto-prepend a marker in the subject line like most other lists do, for
example [OMOKO-COM] so that we can set up mail filters.






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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Paul Bohme]

Mike wrote:

Marcel de Jong wrote:

ps.
I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)



You'll want to be careful here - is an odd thing that people get really 
bent out of shape about..  Have no idea why.

Interesting discussion: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


I agree with this, and I'd also like to add that this list should also
auto-prepend a marker in the subject line like most other lists do, for
example [OMOKO-COM] so that we can set up mail filters.


There are a number of other headers that serve well for this.  If you 
examine the message, you'll see something similar to the following:


List-Id: List for OpenMoko community discussion 
List-Unsubscribe: ,

List-Archive: 
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Subscribe: ,

Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Any of these, particularly the List-Id would be perfect for mail sorting.

 -P


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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Mike Krier]

Marcel de Jong wrote:

On 1/15/07, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I'm in the US, in New York city.  What networks can I use a Neo1973
phone on?  Do all GSM carriers accept all GSM phones?




In contrast to CDMA phones, a GSM phone isn't normally locked to a
carrier, only the GSM-chip (SIMcard) that is inside your GSM phone is
locked to your carrier.
Some carriers offer you bundles with phones that are simlocked
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMLOCKS), which means that the phone
and the SIMcard are paired, but if you have a SIMcard you can put it
in any GSM-phone.

So no, they can't deny your phone.
The only limitation on which GSM-phones you can choose from depends on
the frequency that is used in your country. But given that the Neo is
quad band (it supports all current GSM-frequency ranges), they can't
stop you from using the Neo.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM#Radio_interface)

--
Marcel

ps.
I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)



I agree with this, and I'd also like to add that this list should also 
auto-prepend a marker in the subject line like most other lists do, for 
example [OMOKO-COM] so that we can set up mail filters.






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Re: Fwd: OpenMoko in my area?

[Mike]

Marcel de Jong wrote:

On 1/15/07, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I'm in the US, in New York city.  What networks can I use a Neo1973
phone on?  Do all GSM carriers accept all GSM phones?




In contrast to CDMA phones, a GSM phone isn't normally locked to a
carrier, only the GSM-chip (SIMcard) that is inside your GSM phone is
locked to your carrier.
Some carriers offer you bundles with phones that are simlocked
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMLOCKS), which means that the phone
and the SIMcard are paired, but if you have a SIMcard you can put it
in any GSM-phone.

So no, they can't deny your phone.
The only limitation on which GSM-phones you can choose from depends on
the frequency that is used in your country. But given that the Neo is
quad band (it supports all current GSM-frequency ranges), they can't
stop you from using the Neo.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM#Radio_interface)

--
Marcel

ps.
I really don't like the fact that 'reply' doesn't work on this
mailinglist. I have to add the mailaddress myself. (this is the only
mailinglist that I know, that does that this way)



I agree with this, and I'd also like to add that this list should also
auto-prepend a marker in the subject line like most other lists do, for
example [OMOKO-COM] so that we can set up mail filters.






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