Re: New $200 tablet?
[cut] > This look very interesting. Can’t wait to get my hands on one. It is written 200 EURO, not dollars ($). Makes a difference. -- Patryk "LeadMan" Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
On 01/30/2012 06:41 AM, Gay, John (GE Energy Services, Non-GE) wrote: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/01/reveal.html This look very interesting. Can't wait to get my hands on one. It does indeed look interesting, but it's not $200, it's EUR200 (at current exchange rates puts that at around 262 USD, a notable difference.) Anyways, it could definitely be a fun device to play with. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
On Monday 30 January 2012 15:42:14 Patryk Benderz wrote: > [cut] > > > This look very interesting. Can’t wait to get my hands on one. > > It is written 200 EURO, not dollars ($). Makes a difference. No mention of tax either. It's certainly interesting, especially in light of the Lima driver project for the ARM Mali, but we need more details. It looks rather like the ZT280-C71 which is usually somewhat cheaper, but whose manufacturer doesn't seem to have released kernel source. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 17:53, Al Johnson wrote: > On Monday 30 January 2012 15:42:14 Patryk Benderz wrote: >> [cut] >> >> > This look very interesting. Can’t wait to get my hands on one. >> >> It is written 200 EURO, not dollars ($). Makes a difference. > > No mention of tax either. It's certainly interesting, especially in light of > the Lima driver project for the ARM Mali, but we need more details. It looks > rather like the ZT280-C71 which is usually somewhat cheaper, but whose > manufacturer doesn't seem to have released kernel source. You are right. It should be noted that this is by no means any new hardware developed for KDE specifically. This hardware is already widely available for some time, in dozens (if not far more) of variants. I found similar hardware starting at about EUR 70 and the exact same hardware starting at about EUR 100. In Europe it seems to be most commonly sold as "Zenithink C71" which is optically and hardware-wise fully identical to the "Spark", in China I found it at least under 20 other names with the same hardware, and much more with slightly different specs. Many of them are intentionally sold as cheap i$random_apple_product clones. I haven't found out which company actually builds the device, though I'm pretty sure it's none of those found in the product names. All of those are likely based on AMLogic's reference board designs, and there is NO LINUX UPSTREAM support for either the SoC or the board. Also, there is NO SOURCE CODE available publicly (maybe with the exception of one github repository which seems to have at least some code) which means that all companies currently selling this device are violating the GPL. There are also no proper spec sheets, datasheets, or code references in any way. It is to hope, that the KDE guys are interested enough to have everything properly open sourced to be GPL compliant, though I fear they - like most open source projects - don't have the pull on Chinese hardware OEMs to change a horrible situation to a good situation. Anyway - in my opinion so far this is a lot of fuzz about hardly anything. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
On Monday 30 January 2012 18:52:19 Thomas Gstädtner wrote: > On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 17:53, Al Johnson wrote: > > On Monday 30 January 2012 15:42:14 Patryk Benderz wrote: > >> [cut] > >> > >> > This look very interesting. Can’t wait to get my hands on one. > >> > >> It is written 200 EURO, not dollars ($). Makes a difference. > > > > No mention of tax either. It's certainly interesting, especially in > > light of the Lima driver project for the ARM Mali, but we need more > > details. It looks rather like the ZT280-C71 which is usually somewhat > > cheaper, but whose manufacturer doesn't seem to have released kernel > > source. > > You are right. > > It should be noted that this is by no means any new hardware developed > for KDE specifically. > This hardware is already widely available for some time, in dozens (if > not far more) of variants. > I found similar hardware starting at about EUR 70 and the exact same > hardware starting at about EUR 100. > In Europe it seems to be most commonly sold as "Zenithink C71" which > is optically and hardware-wise fully identical to the "Spark", in > China I found it at least under 20 other names with the same hardware, > and much more with slightly different specs. > Many of them are intentionally sold as cheap i$random_apple_product clones. > > I haven't found out which company actually builds the device, though > I'm pretty sure it's none of those found in the product names. All of > those are likely based on AMLogic's reference board designs, and there > is NO LINUX UPSTREAM support for either the SoC or the board. > Also, there is NO SOURCE CODE available publicly (maybe with the > exception of one github repository which seems to have at least some > code) which means that all companies currently selling this device are > violating the GPL. It may not be upstream, but AMLogic do seem to be publishing source. If everyone is using a reference design it might just work ;-) It looks like their reference bootloader is uboot too. http://openlinux.amlogic.com/wiki/index.php/Arm http://openlinux.amlogic.com/download/linux/GPL_code_release/ The lack of source from OEM and below is nothing new - it's just more obvious than with the routers and STBs where it's been happening for years unfortunately. > There are also no proper spec sheets, datasheets, or code references in any > way. > > It is to hope, that the KDE guys are interested enough to have > everything properly open sourced to be GPL compliant, though I fear > they - like most open source projects - don't have the pull on Chinese > hardware OEMs to change a horrible situation to a good situation. I'll live in hope until there's a proper release. > Anyway - in my opinion so far this is a lot of fuzz about hardly anything. It'll be one of very few tablets that run linux without needing an anti-vendor port. That's a good thing in my book, even if it's not ideal. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
Am 30.01.2012 um 15:42 schrieb Patryk Benderz: > [cut] >> This look very interesting. Can’t wait to get my hands on one. > It is written 200 EURO, not dollars ($). Makes a difference. Most likely it is 200 EUR w/o taxes, WEEE and many other duties like warranties etc. And @ 1 Mio units :) Without calculating engineering cost (i.e. there will never be fixes, updates and upgrades). OpenPandora and GTA04 have both shown how difficult it is to get to a really low price in practice at limited volume. And OLPC also never did meet its goals (at least not within a short timeframe). It only works if someone heavily subsidizes each unit of a small batch and/or has the capital to kickstart the first really big batch. And there are also many examples how even big companies had to clear their stock at a dumping price to limit further financial loss. E.g. HP Touchpad. Or some model that already exists is tweaked to become a community device. But there will be no successor product and enough openness as many examples have shown. So let's see how they do it sustainably. Maybe they have found some trick, I would be happy to learn about :) Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
> >> Anyway - in my opinion so far this is a lot of fuzz about hardly anything. > > It'll be one of very few tablets that run linux without needing an > anti-vendor > port. That's a good thing in my book, even if it's not ideal. It was an intersting experience when we did the Letux 400 3 years ago. It already came with Linux (2.4.20) and there was a 2.6.24 kernel. And a 2.6.31 project. I.e. a full netbook with Debian and WLAN @ 129 EUR. A nice machine when it came out. And still nice to open and learn electronics (schematics are public). Anyways, we still have some of them [1]... Nobody was/is interested in a really low cost device. It very soon lacks important features and the processor is outdated. This is the reason why we strive for high-end in the GTA04. Even if it makes it expensive for the masses. This avoids becoming obsolete before it starts shipping. Nikolaus [1]: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Letux%20400 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
Have a look at this site .. http://www.merimobiles.com/MID_V7_Android_2_2_VIA_VM8650_800Mhz_p/meri0619.htm They have many such variants of Android .. Minimum one is just $72 and even though if you get it shipped with the best possible manner .i.e EMS Express 6-8 Days .. the total will be 72 + 22 = $94 i.e. just Euros 70 . I definitely know there must be some other cheap variants as well all from China and have almost the same configuration. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: > > > >> Anyway - in my opinion so far this is a lot of fuzz about hardly > anything. > > > > It'll be one of very few tablets that run linux without needing an > anti-vendor > > port. That's a good thing in my book, even if it's not ideal. > > It was an intersting experience when we did the Letux 400 3 years ago. It > already > came with Linux (2.4.20) and there was a 2.6.24 kernel. And a 2.6.31 > project. > > I.e. a full netbook with Debian and WLAN @ 129 EUR. A nice machine when it > came out. And still nice to open and learn electronics (schematics are > public). > > Anyways, we still have some of them [1]... > > Nobody was/is interested in a really low cost device. It very soon lacks > important > features and the processor is outdated. > > This is the reason why we strive for high-end in the GTA04. Even if it > makes > it expensive for the masses. This avoids becoming obsolete before it > starts shipping. > > Nikolaus > > [1]: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Letux%20400 > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
"Gay, John (GE Energy Services, Non-GE)" writes: > http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/01/reveal.html I hope it will be capable of running mainline kernels and any GNU/Linux ecosystem software, not just KDE. I think Plasma Active looks pretty nice and interesting, and look forward to being able to try it, but all the same I hope this tablet will not be in some way _tied_ to KDE, or to a system image that only the manufacturer can provide. (cf. Maemo.) Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
[cut] > Also, there is NO SOURCE CODE available publicly (maybe with the > exception of one github repository which seems to have at least some > code) which means that all companies currently selling this device are > violating the GPL. If you are sure above is true, it might be worth notifying [1],[2] and kernel guys. [1] http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ [2] http://gpl-violations.org/ -- Patryk "LeadMan" Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New $200 tablet?
It's just Plasma Active on top of a meego-derived distro, right? http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Development You can boot a USB live image on some other touchscreen device to play around; I did that on my s10-3t last night. On 31 January 2012 14:31, Patryk Benderz wrote: > [cut] >> Also, there is NO SOURCE CODE available publicly (maybe with the >> exception of one github repository which seems to have at least some >> code) which means that all companies currently selling this device are >> violating the GPL. > If you are sure above is true, it might be worth notifying [1],[2] and > kernel guys. > > [1] http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ > [2] http://gpl-violations.org/ > > -- > Patryk "LeadMan" Benderz > Linux Registered User #377521 > () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail > /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: New $200 tablet?
On Monday, January 30, 2012 09:18:09 PM Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: > Am 30.01.2012 um 15:42 schrieb Patryk Benderz: > > [cut] > > > >> This look very interesting. Can’t wait to get my hands on one. > > > > It is written 200 EURO, not dollars ($). Makes a difference. > > Most likely it is 200 EUR w/o taxes, WEEE and many other duties > like warranties etc. > > And @ 1 Mio units :) > > Without calculating engineering cost (i.e. there will never be fixes, > updates and upgrades). > > OpenPandora and GTA04 have both shown how difficult it is to get to a > really low price in practice at limited volume. And OLPC also never did > meet its goals (at least not within a short timeframe). > > It only works if someone heavily subsidizes each unit of a small batch > and/or has the capital to kickstart the first really big batch. And there > are also many examples how even big companies had to clear their stock at a > dumping price to limit further financial loss. E.g. HP Touchpad. > > Or some model that already exists is tweaked to become a community > device. But there will be no successor product and enough openness > as many examples have shown. > > So let's see how they do it sustainably. Maybe they have found some > trick, I would be happy to learn about :) > > Nikolaus >From the blog post, it sounded like this is going to be the first device where they start with lower specs from an existing reference design (which others have pointed out go for as low as 70-100 Euro) with a higher price to then fund other devices. The line I'm thinking of specifically is "Just as important: the proceeds will be helping fuel the efforts that make this all possible." Now, I have no idea how feasible this would end up being, as it likely largely depends upon descent sales and how much is profit. So, on one hand, it sounds like they're trying to get something to market quite quickly with an open source software stack (without any lock downs, a definite plus), but on the other hand, it is a lower spec machine (with no official ship date.) All in all, I'm cautiously optimistic this could be a good thing :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: New $200 tablet?
On Monday, January 30, 2012 11:36:37 PM Neil Jerram wrote: > "Gay, John (GE Energy Services, Non-GE)" writes: > > http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/01/reveal.html > > I hope it will be capable of running mainline kernels and any GNU/Linux > ecosystem software, not just KDE. > > I think Plasma Active looks pretty nice and interesting, and look > forward to being able to try it, but all the same I hope this tablet > will not be in some way _tied_ to KDE, or to a system image that only > the manufacturer can provide. (cf. Maemo.) > > Neil A lot of the base questions that the list has had seem to be answered on the blog post today: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/01/open-beyond-licensing.html The TL;DR version to your question: yes you can. "For instance, the boot loader isn't locked so you can boot your own OS if you wish. You can install your own apps, you can even provide your own app delivery system." ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
