Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
Am Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 17:50:14 schrieb John Lee: > Dear Community, > > Team status update: >... > * The infamous WSOD (#1841) seems to be solved. It's already in > testing repo. Praise for all helped in this! I tested the whole day and you don't know how happy i am: WSOD seems to be gone :) That was a very important step getting back my 'fever' for openmoko. Now i love my Neo again :D >... > Regards, > John HMB ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
The problem is: This is afaik not a fix but a workaround which costs battery power. So I think there should be two kernels: One with and one without this patch. 2008/12/7 John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Dear Community, > > Team status update: > > As in > http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/036792.html > (send/receive files via bluetooth in NEO), Erin keeps working on > bluetooth. Jeremy fixed some qtopia and location bugs, and will > continue learning more about kernel. The GTK redraw problem is fixed > now (#1946) so Julian will be back to help with the Paroli edje files > and keeps working on python. Olv is having kernel fun now, but since > it's gta03 related, you probably won't see him a lot on the public > kernel list. Tick mostly worked on opkg this week. Basically there > are two big issues: > > * Incorrect behavior: as Tick indicated on devel list, there are still > some logical error in opkg, which caused some problems during > upgrade. That's why I have to use the -force-overwrite option in my > previous upgrade howto. > > * Efficiency: opkg is obviously not very efficient, both in memory and > in speed. > > Maybe we could expect another opkg release soon. > > > Qtopia: > > OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for > qtopia is fairly limited. Currently the things I want to fix most > are: > > * UCSD problem > * Window focus (soft menu disappear, problems when multiple sms come > in, etc.) > * Partial import of sim contacts. > > Please suggest if anything missing and I'll arrange my priorities. > > > There are several good things worth mentioning last week: > > * The infamous WSOD (#1841) seems to be solved. It's already in > testing repo. Praise for all helped in this! > > * GTK redraw problem (#1946) solved along with similar problem in qt > with an illume patch. Thanks, Raster! > > > p.s. It seems my last update might have created an impression that > the only way to try the testing repo is to upgrade from Om2008.9. > It's not true. Another way is to flash directly from > http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/testing/ > if you don't mind reflash the phone. > > another p.s. Someone in OM kindly reminds me that my post can create > inappropriate impressions, because although the logic is correct, the > words and tongues might be misleading. My native language is Chinese > (and I'm a master of words and tongues in Chinese), so it's kind of > difficult for me to enhance this. All I can do is encouraging you to > go ahead and ask if anything unclear, and keep in mind I'm a Taiwanese > engineer when you read this. ;) > > > Regards, > John > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- mfg Bumbl ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
Dear Community I've been testing todays openmoko-testing-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 together with testing-om-gta02-20081207.uImage.bin after following the ML without actually flashing my freerunner a lot (for a few weeks). Positive: - Boot time improved - Suspending worked fairly well - At least one sms received (the second, sent from the FR to my own number didn't work) - probably a lot more improvements What was disappointing: - Echo on calls still there - Buzzing still there - It took quite a long time before I've been able to pick up the phone when it was suspended (but I could live with that) After I switched to the illume-theme, Enlightenment SIGABRT'd all the time. Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm for the FR is vanishing. I was at least hoping to be able to use my freerunner as a basic phone after 5 months... Best regards, Chris PS: Sorry that I didn't provide any logs. This was primarily to release steam... Yes, I do feel better now. Hans-Martin wrote: > > Am Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 17:50:14 schrieb John Lee: >> Dear Community, >> >> Team status update: >>... > >> * The infamous WSOD (#1841) seems to be solved. It's already in >> testing repo. Praise for all helped in this! > > I tested the whole day and you don't know how happy i am: WSOD seems to be > gone :) > > That was a very important step getting back my 'fever' for openmoko. Now i > love my Neo again :D > >>... >> Regards, >> John > > HMB > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Optimization-team-update-%2811-30-%7E-12-06%29-tp1625647p1626131.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | The problem is: | This is afaik not a fix but a workaround which costs battery power. | So I think there should be two kernels: | One with and one without this patch. There's a small hit on suspend current, but it is evidently pretty small since two users tested it overnight (9h) at a cost of 13% battery. On andy-tracking shortly we plan to take down the regulator supplying the LCM during suspend and solve it that way, if the LCM ASIC doesn't have any more surprises. Then it should even outperform the previous way with ASIC in Deep Sleep for current savings. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkk8JiAACgkQOjLpvpq7dMryxACgg62dTSnIgciVZm7jzh7FjpWs fnwAnRgysJnhIKBrW6neTPl3Sy+V/DFk =QuVy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 11:24:40AM -0800, Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > > Dear Community > > I've been testing todays openmoko-testing-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 together > with testing-om-gta02-20081207.uImage.bin after following the ML without > actually flashing my freerunner a lot (for a few weeks). > > Positive: > - Boot time improved > - Suspending worked fairly well > - At least one sms received (the second, sent from the FR to my own number > didn't work) > - probably a lot more improvements > > What was disappointing: > - Echo on calls still there > - Buzzing still there > - It took quite a long time before I've been able to pick up the phone when > it was suspended (but I could live with that) > > After I switched to the illume-theme, Enlightenment SIGABRT'd all > the time. Please see https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1767 I think I should really put a warning sign somewhere when user chooses this combination... > > Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm for the FR is vanishing. I was at least > hoping to be able to use my freerunner as a basic phone after 5 months... > > Best regards, Chris > > PS: Sorry that I didn't provide any logs. This was primarily to release > steam... Yes, I do feel better now. > > > > Hans-Martin wrote: > > > > Am Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 17:50:14 schrieb John Lee: > >> Dear Community, > >> > >> Team status update: > >>... > > > >> * The infamous WSOD (#1841) seems to be solved. It's already in > >> testing repo. Praise for all helped in this! > > > > I tested the whole day and you don't know how happy i am: WSOD seems to be > > gone :) > > > > That was a very important step getting back my 'fever' for openmoko. Now i > > love my Neo again :D > > > >>... > >> Regards, > >> John > > > > HMB > > > > > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/Optimization-team-update-%2811-30-%7E-12-06%29-tp1625647p1626131.html > Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Christoph Siegenthaler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm for the FR is vanishing. I was at least > hoping to be able to use my freerunner as a basic phone after 5 months... > > Sorry if I'm repeating myself here - but try QTExtended 4.4.2 - it's not perfect, and I do miss having all of the funky X based software from the OM2008 based stacks, but as a basic phone, it works quite well, and I get 36-48 hour battery life... Warren ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 03:11:46PM -0500, Warren Baird wrote: > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Christoph Siegenthaler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm for the FR is vanishing. I was at least > > hoping to be able to use my freerunner as a basic phone after 5 months... > > > Sorry if I'm repeating myself here - but try QTExtended 4.4.2 - it's not > perfect, and I do miss having all of the funky X based software from the > OM2008 based stacks, but as a basic phone, it works quite well, and I get > 36-48 hour battery life... I never had that battery life with qtextended, mainly because of the White Screen of Death (which is solved in testing). Rui -- Or not. Today is Sweetmorn, the 49th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 11:24 -0800, Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > Dear Community > > I've been testing todays openmoko-testing-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 together > with testing-om-gta02-20081207.uImage.bin after following the ML without > actually flashing my freerunner a lot (for a few weeks). > > Positive: > - Boot time improved > - Suspending worked fairly well > - At least one sms received (the second, sent from the FR to my own number > didn't work) > - probably a lot more improvements > ... Regarding SMS, I tripped over something on the weekend that appears to have solved it for me so far - more testing needed. I noticed that the batget program often had multiple instances that "blocked" for some time, especially after resume. I killed them and suspended, and an SMS arrived and everything worked! This is such a very very rare event that I sent/received a dozen or so messages over the weekend without problems - the phone woke from suspend everytime and qtmail started up fine. batget works with the battery icon on the shelf, so this stops working after a "kill batget". To keep batget from starting, use the "spanner" to remove the battery module. I surmise that on resume, the FR is so busy with programs like batget that messages are dropped - depending on your software fit, may effect some more than others. Be nice to have it confirmed so its worth raising a bug? BillK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Monday 08 Dec 2008 2:32:00 am Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 03:11:46PM -0500, Warren Baird wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Christoph Siegenthaler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm for the FR is vanishing. I was at > > > least hoping to be able to use my freerunner as a basic phone after 5 > > > months... > > > > Sorry if I'm repeating myself here - but try QTExtended 4.4.2 - it's not > > perfect, and I do miss having all of the funky X based software from the > > OM2008 based stacks, but as a basic phone, it works quite well, and I get > > 36-48 hour battery life... > > I never had that battery life with qtextended, mainly because of the > White Screen of Death (which is solved in testing). Maybe it has something to do with hardware revisions. I get the same kind of battery life. -- Cheers! Kishore ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
> My native language is Chinese, so it's kind of difficult for me to enhance I consider writing as another information product just like code. It needs debugging too, and peer review (i.e. many eyes) is the key. Think "testing team". I am in the academia, and systematically have one or two colleagues have a look at anything I write before sending it out. No need to find an English language professor, just someone who can point me the sentences which I was too dumb/hurry to write clearly in the first place. It takes time, it is not that difficult, and if you do it systematically your skills will improve in a few months. Colleagues will come to you to check the clarity of their English ! Professor Minh at your service ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Kishore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe it has something to do with hardware revisions. I get the same kind of > battery life. I have a GTA02V5 and I'm also experiencing 36-48 hour battery life with QTExtended 4.4.2. This is with suspend enabled. cheers Denis ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
Hey! I gave QTExtended 4.4.2 another go and you were right. It really is the best option to use the FR as a basic phone atm. I'm not sure why I didn't like it after flashing it the first time. I think I had some issues with suspending. Haven't had any problems with it so far, using the om-testing kernel. The echo isn't so bad either, but still there. I haven't tried to tweak the state-files yet. Addressbook and Calender work too. Some other first impressions: - Timezone isn't set after one changes it in the initial setup - Alarm doesn't ring when phone is suspended - Does someone know a way to turn of "word prediction" in the handwriting input style? Best regards, Chris Warren Baird wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Christoph Siegenthaler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> >> Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm for the FR is vanishing. I was at least >> hoping to be able to use my freerunner as a basic phone after 5 months... >> >> > Sorry if I'm repeating myself here - but try QTExtended 4.4.2 - it's not > perfect, and I do miss having all of the funky X based software from the > OM2008 based stacks, but as a basic phone, it works quite well, and I get > 36-48 hour battery life... > > Warren > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Optimization-team-update-%2811-30-%7E-12-06%29-tp1625647p1628198.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 11:24 -0800, Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > I've been testing todays openmoko-testing-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 together > with testing-om-gta02-20081207.uImage.bin after following the ML without > actually flashing my freerunner a lot (for a few weeks). BTW I just tested these images too, and I have no wifi (i.e. the settings allow to turn on GPS and Bluetooth, buth there's no more a WIFI entry). Is that expected ? Xav ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 7:01:48 pm Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > The echo isn't so bad either, but still there. Yeah, it only tries to set the echo suppression for outgoing calls. I tried to patch it to set it for incoming calls as well but without any success. I also find that mine goes into speakerphone occasionally for incoming calls which is, umm, inconvenient, shall we say.. :-) > Addressbook and Calender work too. Yup! > Some other first impressions: > - Timezone isn't set after one changes it in the initial setup The Qtopia folks image is a bit broken sadly, I'm using the one that Morten put together here: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1437402i40 I do wish they'd post a fixed one! > - Alarm doesn't ring when phone is suspended Yeah, I can confirm that. > - Does someone know a way to turn of "word prediction" in the > handwriting input style? This should do it (not tried it myself yet): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_/_Qt_Extended_on_FreeRunner#Internationalization cheers! Chris -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC This email may come with a PGP signature as a file. Do not panic. For more info see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenPGP signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
but what part of that 13% is caused by the absence of deep sleep (both for GSM and for lcd) ? this seemed to me something that had to be calculated/measured before removing it... (for the record: i have never had a WSOD, but I did have the re-registering bug) but i consider both as "not fixed". it's a good workaround till there is a better one, but it should not be considered fixed. two/four kernels seems like a good idea On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > | The problem is: > | This is afaik not a fix but a workaround which costs battery power. > | So I think there should be two kernels: > | One with and one without this patch. > > There's a small hit on suspend current, but it is evidently pretty small > since two users tested it overnight (9h) at a cost of 13% battery. > > On andy-tracking shortly we plan to take down the regulator supplying > the LCM during suspend and solve it that way, if the LCM ASIC doesn't > have any more surprises. Then it should even outperform the previous > way with ASIC in Deep Sleep for current savings. > > - -Andy > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkk8JiAACgkQOjLpvpq7dMryxACgg62dTSnIgciVZm7jzh7FjpWs > fnwAnRgysJnhIKBrW6neTPl3Sy+V/DFk > =QuVy > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > opkg is obviously not very efficient, both in memory and in speed I don't care much about opkg since I use debian, but is there some rationale for developing a new package management system that I can read? -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 09:01, Christoph Siegenthaler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - Does someone know a way to turn of "word prediction" in the handwriting > input style? Like I wrote in an earlier email, draw the following triangle: bottom-left -> bottom-right -> top -> bottom-left And choose the "abc" (lower-left) button. Have fun, -- Damien Thebault ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
Christoph Siegenthaler schrieb: > Hey! > > I gave QTExtended 4.4.2 another go and you were right. It really is the best > option to use the FR as a basic phone atm. I'm not sure why I didn't like it > after flashing it the first time. I think I had some issues with suspending. > Haven't had any problems with it so far, using the om-testing kernel. > > The echo isn't so bad either, but still there. I haven't tried to tweak the > state-files yet. Addressbook and Calender work too. Some other first > impressions: > - Timezone isn't set after one changes it in the initial setup > - Alarm doesn't ring when phone is suspended > - Does someone know a way to turn of "word prediction" in the handwriting > input style? > I don't really know how to deactivate the wordprediction, but I am very happy to use it with a german wordlist. (I guess, that you come from germany cause of your name.) Give it a try. If you don't know where to get just write. > Best regards, Chris > > > > > > Warren Baird wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Christoph Siegenthaler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >>> Slowly but steadily my enthusiasm for the FR is vanishing. I was at least >>> hoping to be able to use my freerunner as a basic phone after 5 months... >>> >>> >> Sorry if I'm repeating myself here - but try QTExtended 4.4.2 - it's not >> perfect, and I do miss having all of the funky X based software from the >> OM2008 based stacks, but as a basic phone, it works quite well, and I get >> 36-48 hour battery life... >> >> Warren >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> >> > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Monday 08 December 2008, Esben Stien wrote: > John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > opkg is obviously not very efficient, both in memory and in speed > > I don't care much about opkg since I use debian, but is there some > rationale for developing a new package management system that I can > read? It's not exactly new. ipkg was developed for linux on iPaq because dpkg/apt was thought to be too resource hungry for such a constrained device. If you look at the workarounds applied to fit debian into NAND on the Freerunner you will see why. Purging package metadata comes just after purging unnecessary locales in the space saving measures. opkg is a contnuation of ipkg which IIRC stopped being maintained. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 12:16:03PM +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote: > On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 11:24 -0800, Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > > I've been testing todays openmoko-testing-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 together > > with testing-om-gta02-20081207.uImage.bin after following the ML without > > actually flashing my freerunner a lot (for a few weeks). > > BTW I just tested these images too, and I have no wifi (i.e. the > settings allow to turn on GPS and Bluetooth, buth there's no more a WIFI > entry). Is that expected ? > > Xav yes. please refer to https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2003 - John ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 11:44 +0800, John Lee wrote: > On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 12:16:03PM +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 11:24 -0800, Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > > > I've been testing todays openmoko-testing-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 together > > > with testing-om-gta02-20081207.uImage.bin after following the ML without > > > actually flashing my freerunner a lot (for a few weeks). > > > > BTW I just tested these images too, and I have no wifi (i.e. the > > settings allow to turn on GPS and Bluetooth, buth there's no more a WIFI > > entry). Is that expected ? > > > > Xav > > yes. please refer to > > https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2003 Mmh .. the ticket reads: Summary: Please take out suspend time "10 sec." So we only left 30 seconds, 60 seconds and Off. Let's but this in Milestone Om2008.10. I couldn't find an equivalent ticket in trac. Xav ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
> -Message d'origine- > De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de > Xavier Bestel > Envoyé : mardi 9 décembre 2008 10:15 > À : List for Openmoko community discussion > Objet : Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06) > > On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 11:44 +0800, John Lee wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 12:16:03PM +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote: > > > On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 11:24 -0800, Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > > > > I've been testing todays openmoko-testing-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 > > > > together with testing-om-gta02-20081207.uImage.bin > after following > > > > the ML without actually flashing my freerunner a lot > (for a few weeks). > > > > > > BTW I just tested these images too, and I have no wifi (i.e. the > > > settings allow to turn on GPS and Bluetooth, buth there's > no more a > > > WIFI entry). Is that expected ? > > > > > > Xav > > > > yes. please refer to > > > > https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2003 > > Mmh .. the ticket reads: > Summary: > Please take out suspend time "10 sec." > So we only left 30 seconds, 60 seconds and Off. > Let's but this in Milestone Om2008.10. > > I couldn't find an equivalent ticket in trac. > In the first comment : commit log: disable wifi frontend (backend currently broken) ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
John Lee wrote: > > Olv is having kernel fun now, but since it's gta03 related, you probably > won't see him a lot on the public kernel list. > > ... > > OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for qtopia is > fairly limited. > I know it's important for OM to keep moving forward, but really, focusing on gta03? Already? It's been a few months since GTA02 went GA and we still don't really have a working system, focusing most effort on GTA03 now seems to be an abandonment of freerunner owners. With the software in the state it was when the 02 came out, I certainly won't be buying a 03 until OM proves it can actually make something that's a useful product rather than just a public alpha. this goes double if the alpha product is essentially left for dead without ever being fully working. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Optimization-team-update-%2811-30-%7E-12-06%29-tp1625647p1633700.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Gothnet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > John Lee wrote: > > > > Olv is having kernel fun now, but since it's gta03 related, you probably > > won't see him a lot on the public kernel list. > > > > ... > > > > OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for qtopia > is > > fairly limited. > > > > I know it's important for OM to keep moving forward, but really, focusing > on > gta03? Already? > > It's been a few months since GTA02 went GA and we still don't really have a > working system, focusing most effort on GTA03 now seems to be an > abandonment > of freerunner owners. > > With the software in the state it was when the 02 came out, I certainly > won't be buying a 03 until OM proves it can actually make something that's > a > useful product rather than just a public alpha. this goes double if the > alpha product is essentially left for dead without ever being fully > working. > I second this. Franky ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
polz wrote: > > > > That's just common sense. If you want a working phone, just stick to the > Freerunner, maybe try and help get it into a working state. Once the base > system is working, you can always buy a GTA03 to get some new, faster, > shinier > hardware. > Yes, but I'm wondering who they think is going to buy the 03 when the user experience for the 02 has been so poor and it looks like development effort is being shifted off it when the phone is still basically in alpha testing. > Don't worry, the software on your phone is free, it'll stay supported as > long > as there's at least one user willing to keep building images/packages for > it. > You're likely to run out of replacement parts or break it unintentionally > way > before then. > That's not in any way the same as having paid development effort to get it up to a base working state. And it's not support I'm worried about, it's the absolute basic functionality and reliability that's at issue here. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Optimization-team-update-%2811-30-%7E-12-06%29-tp1625647p1633966.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Tuesday 09 December 2008 13:52:13 Gothnet wrote: > I know it's important for OM to keep moving forward, but really, focusing > on gta03? Already? Don't worry about it, the improvements will be back-ported. > It's been a few months since GTA02 went GA and we still don't really have a > working system, focusing most effort on GTA03 now seems to be an > abandonment of freerunner owners. The situation GTA02 users are in now is similar to the situation GTA01 users were in when GTA02 came out. If anything, the GTA02 users are better off since there are more Freerunners out there than there are Neo1973s. Even if the people at Openmoko stop working on GTA02 completely and just create a stable, working rootfs for the phone, along with a reliable buildsystem. > With the software in the state it was when the 02 came out, I certainly > won't be buying a 03 until OM proves it can actually make something that's > a useful product rather than just a public alpha. That's just common sense. If you want a working phone, just stick to the Freerunner, maybe try and help get it into a working state. Once the base system is working, you can always buy a GTA03 to get some new, faster, shinier hardware. > this goes double if the > alpha product is essentially left for dead without ever being fully > working. Don't worry, the software on your phone is free, it'll stay supported as long as there's at least one user willing to keep building images/packages for it. You're likely to run out of replacement parts or break it unintentionally way before then. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
Totally agreed. I've got a phone with which I can't make phone calls without echo and buzzing even though the OM folks have been working on the basics for weeks/months now. Come on... Phone calls are the only basic functionality I can think of in a cell phone. Gothnet wrote: > > Yes, but I'm wondering who they think is going to buy the 03 when the user > experience for the 02 has been so poor and it looks like development > effort is being shifted off it when the phone is still basically in alpha > testing. > > ... > > And it's not support I'm worried about, it's the absolute basic > functionality and reliability that's at issue here. > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Optimization-team-update-%2811-30-%7E-12-06%29-tp1625647p1634078.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 10:47 +0100, KaZeR wrote: > > > -Message d'origine- > > De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de > > Xavier Bestel > > Envoyé : mardi 9 décembre 2008 10:15 > > À : List for Openmoko community discussion > > Objet : Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06) > > > > On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 11:44 +0800, John Lee wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 12:16:03PM +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 11:24 -0800, Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > > > > > I've been testing todays openmoko-testing-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 > > > > > together with testing-om-gta02-20081207.uImage.bin > > after following > > > > > the ML without actually flashing my freerunner a lot > > (for a few weeks). > > > > > > > > BTW I just tested these images too, and I have no wifi (i.e. the > > > > settings allow to turn on GPS and Bluetooth, buth there's > > no more a > > > > WIFI entry). Is that expected ? > > > > > > > > Xav > > > > > > yes. please refer to > > > > > > https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2003 > > > > Mmh .. the ticket reads: > > Summary: > > Please take out suspend time "10 sec." > > So we only left 30 seconds, 60 seconds and Off. > > Let's but this in Milestone Om2008.10. > > > > I couldn't find an equivalent ticket in trac. > > > > In the first comment : > > commit log: disable wifi frontend (backend currently broken) Ugh. :( Thanks for the hint. Xav ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
Le mardi 09 décembre 2008, Gothnet a écrit : > John Lee wrote: > > OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for qtopia > > is fairly limited. > > It's been a few months since GTA02 went GA and we still don't really have a > working system, focusing most effort on GTA03 now seems to be an > abandonment of freerunner owners. The Osborne effect is exhibited when a company's premature revelation of information about future products results in customers not purchasing (or delaying purchases of) the current offering. It is a purported suicidal marketing mistake, but some say it's a myth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Effect Respectfull note to Sean M-P: the community is not interested in a myth-dispelling experiment. Minh -- Minh HA DUONG, Chargé de Recherche, CNRS CIRED, Centre International de Recherches sur l'Environnement et le Développement http://minh.haduong.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Tuesday 09 December 2008 20:52:13 Gothnet wrote: > > OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for qtopia > > is fairly limited. > > I know it's important for OM to keep moving forward, but really, focusing > on gta03? Already? > > It's been a few months since GTA02 went GA and we still don't really have a > working system, focusing most effort on GTA03 now seems to be an > abandonment of freerunner owners. I think there are some misunderstandings that need to be addressed: - Yes, our focus is shifting from Qtopia towards FSO / paroli / python. This happens gradually. - This has nothing todo with GTA0x - we are talking about software which will run across all devices. - We don't abandon the Freerunner. Furthermore it serves as our development platform as GTA03 does not come around any time soon. Its at an early stage of development (even internal developers don't have it). - We want to get the software into a much better shape to avoid the "02 experience". Sorry for the confusion, Marek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 04:52:13AM -0800, Gothnet wrote: > John Lee wrote: > > > > Olv is having kernel fun now, but since it's gta03 related, you probably > > won't see him a lot on the public kernel list. > > > > ... > > > > OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for qtopia is > > fairly limited. > > > > I know it's important for OM to keep moving forward, but really, focusing on > gta03? Already? > > It's been a few months since GTA02 went GA and we still don't really have a > working system, focusing most effort on GTA03 now seems to be an abandonment > of freerunner owners. > > With the software in the state it was when the 02 came out, I certainly > won't be buying a 03 until OM proves it can actually make something that's a > useful product rather than just a public alpha. this goes double if the > alpha product is essentially left for dead without ever being fully working. I shouldn't say gta03, I should say the next generation software we are going to use. Since people will switch to that software with their freerunner (gta02), it makes more sense to put more resource to work on that. My writing wasn't accurate enough. Sorry about that. - John ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 6:15:15 pm John Lee wrote: > I shouldn't say gta03, I should say the next generation software we > are going to use. Since people will switch to that software with > their freerunner (gta02), it makes more sense to put more resource > to work on that. My writing wasn't accurate enough. Sorry about that. Thanks for the clarification, much appreciated! -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC This email may come with a PGP signature as a file. Do not panic. For more info see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenPGP signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
John Lee wrote: > > I shouldn't say gta03, I should say the next generation software we > are going to use. Since people will switch to that software with > their freerunner (gta02), it makes more sense to put more resource > to work on that. My writing wasn't accurate enough. Sorry about that. > > - John > John (and Marek), Thanks for explaining that, I have no particular attachment to any one software distribution, only an interest in getting a stable, responsive phone. To this end I'm encouraged that more effort is going into the FSO as it seems like 2008.X is something of a sideline now. And yes, the use of the term gta03 to refer to the newer software stack IS confusing! -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Optimization-team-update-%2811-30-%7E-12-06%29-tp1625647p1638316.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Optimization team update (11/30 ~ 12/06)
Christoph Siegenthaler wrote: > Totally agreed. I've got a phone with which I can't make phone calls without > echo and buzzing even though the OM folks have been working on the basics > for weeks/months now. Come on... Phone calls are the only basic > functionality I can think of in a cell phone. It is a cell phone with gps. The gps part seems to work well enough. But of course the phone part ought to work too. :-/ Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
