Re: [openmoko-announce] Some light ahead...
Tried that on openSUSE 10.2 Instructions do not work - after installing apt4rpm apt-get is not available?? On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 11:23 -0500, Steven ** wrote: Have you already find the MokoMakefile? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile -Steven On 6/12/07, Ivan -sk8- Chavero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I want to start developing apps for openmoko but i haven't being able to find any tools for that. i have browsed the wiki, projects and the other sections of the website and no luck. I'm interested on developing some thin client apps on the openmoko framework as a proof of concept for my masters thesis on low coupled distributed applications so it would be great if somebody could give me some links for the documentation and developer tools. P.D. I also want to purchase a phone it looks like a very interesting combination technology and philosophy!! thanks in advance. Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, We owe you all an update as to our status. Here it goes... Last week we finished 200 devices. Of these about 50 seem to have some problems but the rest are functionally complete, tested, and ready to go. We know the source of the problems for the 50 that failed and this is already corrected. This is great news because it means we can finally start to move out of engineering sample mode and into real production! These first 150 (or so) devices will go to phase 0 developers and our internal / external developers -- of which many still don't even have phones! Oh and Imre Kaloz gets a freed phone, too. Thanks for being the first to tell us about Atheros. We're almost for sure going to use their AR6K chipset in our next product. We must forewarn you all that we're having some supply issues with our 2.8 VGA LCM. Our vendor has had more than their fair share of troubles moving this LCM into mass production. We have some in stock now. But this might be the major bottleneck moving forward. There are only a few companies currently making LCMs of this size and resolution. Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. Thanks again for your continued support and patience. The light at the end of the tunnel is getting a little brighter :-) Sincerely, The Core Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Some light ahead...
Have you already find the MokoMakefile? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile -Steven On 6/12/07, Ivan -sk8- Chavero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I want to start developing apps for openmoko but i haven't being able to find any tools for that. i have browsed the wiki, projects and the other sections of the website and no luck. I'm interested on developing some thin client apps on the openmoko framework as a proof of concept for my masters thesis on low coupled distributed applications so it would be great if somebody could give me some links for the documentation and developer tools. P.D. I also want to purchase a phone it looks like a very interesting combination technology and philosophy!! thanks in advance. Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Dear Community, We owe you all an update as to our status. Here it goes... Last week we finished 200 devices. Of these about 50 seem to have some problems but the rest are functionally complete, tested, and ready to go. We know the source of the problems for the 50 that failed and this is already corrected. This is great news because it means we can finally start to move out of engineering sample mode and into real production! These first 150 (or so) devices will go to phase 0 developers and our internal / external developers -- of which many still don't even have phones! Oh and Imre Kaloz gets a freed phone, too. Thanks for being the first to tell us about Atheros. We're almost for sure going to use their AR6K chipset in our next product. We must forewarn you all that we're having some supply issues with our 2.8 VGA LCM. Our vendor has had more than their fair share of troubles moving this LCM into mass production. We have some in stock now. But this might be the major bottleneck moving forward. There are only a few companies currently making LCMs of this size and resolution. Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. Thanks again for your continued support and patience. The light at the end of the tunnel is getting a little brighter :-) Sincerely, The Core Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Some light ahead...
On Tuesday 12 June 2007 21:28, Ivan -sk8- Chavero wrote: Hello, I want to start developing apps for openmoko but i haven't being able to find any tools for that. i have browsed the wiki, projects and the other sections of the website and no luck. Instructions for building the full dev environment complete with qemu for emulating the neo hardware are in the Wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile I'm interested on developing some thin client apps on the openmoko framework as a proof of concept for my masters thesis on low coupled distributed applications so it would be great if somebody could give me some links for the documentation and developer tools. P.D. I also want to purchase a phone it looks like a very interesting combination technology and philosophy!! thanks in advance. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. So? How did it go? Did they successfully roll off the assembly line? What percentage of the batch worked properly? Are we still on schedule, or has something popped up that is going to force things to slip again? Most importantly, when and where do I send my check? Dunc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: ... Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. So, tomorrow is the big day (actually, it's already Thursday May 10th in China)! I trust that we'll get a full report (good or bad) on the first production run. I'm sure that I speak for everyone when I say we're dieing to know how it went. Dunc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
On 5/2/07, Casper van Donderen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.mesdigital.com/english/Products/product_mmsp2.asp I think this chip is pretty opensource since it is used in the GP2X I don't want to pay money to micro$oft for wma support, so I do _not_ want that chip. Anyway I guess it is full of bug: MP3, WMA Decode Codec : Support from Microsoft¢ç (porting Windows¢ç CE.NET) MPEG1 Layer 12 Codec : Support from Microsoft¢ç (porting Windows¢ç CE.NET) G.711, ADPCM Codec : Support from Microsoft¢ç (porting Windows¢ç CE.NET) And I do not think it is open source ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: On 5/2/07, Casper van Donderen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.mesdigital.com/english/Products/product_mmsp2.asp I think this chip is pretty opensource since it is used in the GP2X I don't want to pay money to micro$oft for wma support, so I do _not_ want that chip. Anyway I guess it is full of bug: MP3, WMA Decode Codec : Support from Microsoft¢ç (porting Windows¢ç CE.NET) MPEG1 Layer 12 Codec : Support from Microsoft¢ç (porting Windows¢ç CE.NET) G.711, ADPCM Codec : Support from Microsoft¢ç (porting Windows¢ç CE.NET) And I do not think it is open source I guess this one would be better, but I don't know how they distribute drivers. The problem with powervr is that they just provide IP. So I assume it depends on the manufacturers then (I'm afraid most of them are working in a quite closed development) : http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/products/Video/MVDA2/index.asp The bad point of this kind of chip are the limited amount of supported codecs, so this kind below would be better ; also because it's OpenGL|ES 2.0 compatible ;) [...] Video processing for free, with the real-time programmable architecture providing extensive accelerated functions support for multi-standard video decode and encode. -- ak vertexfragment shaders that seems to be extended in this chip to access other kind of resources (maybe a kind of fast texture wrapper around raw video blocks ?). http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/products/Graphics/SGX/index.asp?Page=2 Now I think the main problem would be the price of a chip like that. Why not use an FPGA with a bunch of arithmetic operations widely used in audio / video compression (eg. DCT) and write a media library that forward most of the job on the FPGA. I don't know if there is more complete solutions available, but the basic idea is here : http://www.opencores.org/projects.cgi/web/video_systems/overview (well I don't have the whole mailing list archived here, so it has maybe been already mentioned before) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
Yeah the iPod video has a video chip But on the internet I read that the iPhone might go with the Samsung s3c2460 chip, That chip has a hardware video decoder on it. But I think another option could be the MagicEyes MMSP2 chip used in the GP2X linux handheld, that has hardware video (up to OpenGL ES), and an embedded camera controller (maybe usable in the future models with camera, up to 4M pixels) http://www.mesdigital.com/english/Products/product_mmsp2.asp I think this chip is pretty opensource since it is used in the GP2X Casper _ http://www.live.nl Windows Live Messenger___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
The question is how well does the Neo handle video?. There was some discussion on the list a while back about this. Sounds like playing/decoding video will tax the processor pretty hard. I'm sure someone will get it working, but I got the impression it would take some skill. It would definitely be awesome though! -Steven On 4/30/07, adrian cockcroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slingbox currently can stream your home video system (including TiVo) to a computer or high speed (3G/WiFi) phone. It works well on laptops, and I've seen it demonstrated on phones and it looks quite good. This implies that its at least technically feasible to stream MythTV to a Neo. Adrian On 4/30/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:56, Steven ** wrote: /snip I don't understand. Of course I'll want MythTV on my phone (iPhone or Neo). I'm not going to buy Apple TV because I already have MythTV setup and doing everything I want and more. I intend, at the very least, to use my Neo as a remote control for my Myth Box. I'd also like to get a simple Myth frontend so that I stream video to the Neo. That will be harder, but awesome. -Steven Can you imagine... Think of you tube but with channels of shared tv broadcast to phones... Maybe like public tv but where users or individuals could select the content... Does that exist? I am not talking rebroadcasting (copyright issues) but new content owned by individuals who would like to share it and give the rights for that. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
Video would be a bit essential I would think... if an iPod can do it, shouldn't a mini computerphone be able to? If we want to compete with other touch phones and smart phones, video playback is a strong selling point. Not that I know how to make it happen at all... Maybe we can use code from Neuros? They make open source and (I think) GPL'ed video players. http://www.neurosaudio.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
Steven ** wrote: The question is how well does the Neo handle video?. There was some discussion on the list a while back about this. Sounds like playing/decoding video will tax the processor pretty hard. I'm sure someone will get it working, but I got the impression it would take some skill. It would definitely be awesome though! Basically - it's not too much of a problem for reasonable codecs, at half resolution (hardware scaled in the LCD). You're not going to be doing h.264 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
el jefe delito said the following on 01/05/07 15:03: Video would be a bit essential I would think... if an iPod can do it, shouldn't a mini computerphone be able to? AFAIK the video iPods have hardware decoding chips, so the iPod isn't decoding the video. Which is why they can only play certain kinds of video codecs. Rory ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
On 5/1/07, Rory McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: el jefe delito said the following on 01/05/07 15:03: Video would be a bit essential I would think... if an iPod can do it, shouldn't a mini computerphone be able to? AFAIK the video iPods have hardware decoding chips, so the iPod isn't decoding the video. Which is why they can only play certain kinds of video codecs. I own a Palm T|X. I would think the ARM based Samsung S3C2410AL-26 (Capable of running up to 266 MHz) in the Neo should compare favorably to the ARM based Intel XScale PXA 270 running at 312 MHz in the Palm T|X. The difference in CPU speed may be compensated for by the Neo's use of 128 MB of SDRAM vs the Palm T|X's use of 128 MB of slower non-volatile memory (only 100 MB accessible by Palm applications). I have used the predecessor to CorePlayer Mobile (called tcpmp) to watch video and listen to audio not supported by Palm's default music app. Core Player Mobile supports the following video codecs: - H.264 (AVC) - MKV - MPEG-1 - MPEG-4 part 2 (ASP) - DivX - XviD - MJPEG I have tried H.264, MPEG-1, MPEG-4 part 2 (ASP) and XviD. H.264 encoded podcasts downloaded from tikibartv.com played but were nearly unwatchable. The video and sound were far too jerky for enjoyable viewing. I encoded my own video content in MPEG-1, MPEG-4 and XviD at various bit rates and had good experiences with playback. references: http://coreplayer.com/content/view/28/44/ http://www.tikibartv.com/ -- Andrew Becherer Undergraduate, Computing and Software Systems University of Washington, Tacoma ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
On 4/29/07, Martin Lefkowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an HTC wizard right now branded as cingular that I am running skype on. If I remember correctly I downloaded the software off the skype site for this handset. Does this mean it's approved or not approved? With your setup, it's a gray area. With the iPhone, it is presented as anything not approved is inherently banned. You were able to get the app because that phone is at least slightly open. The press on the iPhone makes it seem completely closed. Wouldn't it be a problem for the FTC if Cingular didn't approve software like this because it wouldn't be fair and equitable for that frequency? They would need to have some sort of test for certification right? Or, is this the difference between licensed and unlicensed 802.11b/g/etc. uses 2.4 GHz unlicensed spectrum. No FTC beyond the power limits that would be enforced on the manufacturer of the chip. It's the wifi chip that needs FTC approval, not the software. Also you probably wouldn't need myth TV on the Iphone for the reasons Apple does distinguish themselves as described above. I don't understand. Of course I'll want MythTV on my phone (iPhone or Neo). I'm not going to buy Apple TV because I already have MythTV setup and doing everything I want and more. I intend, at the very least, to use my Neo as a remote control for my Myth Box. I'd also like to get a simple Myth frontend so that I stream video to the Neo. That will be harder, but awesome. -Steven Marty ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
Steven ** wrote: On 4/29/07, Martin Lefkowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an HTC wizard right now branded as cingular that I am running skype on. If I remember correctly I downloaded the software off the skype site for this handset. Does this mean it's approved or not approved? With your setup, it's a gray area. With the iPhone, it is presented as anything not approved is inherently banned. You were able to get the app because that phone is at least slightly open. The press on the iPhone makes it seem completely closed. Its not 'the press', its Steve Jobs himself. Wouldn't it be a problem for the FTC if Cingular didn't approve software like this because it wouldn't be fair and equitable for that frequency? They would need to have some sort of test for certification right? Or, is this the difference between licensed and unlicensed 802.11b/g/etc. uses 2.4 GHz unlicensed spectrum. No FTC beyond the power limits that would be enforced on the manufacturer of the chip. It's the wifi chip that needs FTC approval, not the software. You're wrong, on several counts. 1) The FTC is the Federal Trade Commission, responsible for things like dealing with anti-competitive behavior. The FCC (Federal Communications Commission) is responsible for various other things, including 'spectrum regulation'. 2) power limits are not the only thing (or even the most important thing) that you need to worry about with a compliant ISM (Part 15.247) WLAN device. Far **MORE** important is out of band emisisons, especially operation in the 'restricted bands' just outside the 2.4GHz spectrum. 3) The FCC doesn't approve 'chips', the manufacturer of the design obtains certification. Note: the *whole* design is tested, and in many instances, this **includes** the software. It certainly includes the entire radio section, from baseband through, and including the antenna. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
Slingbox currently can stream your home video system (including TiVo) to a computer or high speed (3G/WiFi) phone. It works well on laptops, and I've seen it demonstrated on phones and it looks quite good. This implies that its at least technically feasible to stream MythTV to a Neo. Adrian On 4/30/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:56, Steven ** wrote: /snip I don't understand. Of course I'll want MythTV on my phone (iPhone or Neo). I'm not going to buy Apple TV because I already have MythTV setup and doing everything I want and more. I intend, at the very least, to use my Neo as a remote control for my Myth Box. I'd also like to get a simple Myth frontend so that I stream video to the Neo. That will be harder, but awesome. -Steven Can you imagine... Think of you tube but with channels of shared tv broadcast to phones... Maybe like public tv but where users or individuals could select the content... Does that exist? I am not talking rebroadcasting (copyright issues) but new content owned by individuals who would like to share it and give the rights for that. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Anti Iphone (Was Re: Some light ahead...)
I have an HTC wizard right now branded as cingular that I am running skype on. If I remember correctly I downloaded the software off the skype site for this handset. Does this mean it's approved or not approved? Wouldn't it be a problem for the FTC if Cingular didn't approve software like this because it wouldn't be fair and equitable for that frequency? They would need to have some sort of test for certification right? Or, is this the difference between licensed and unlicensed BTW, I just got the Cingular 8125, refurbished, for about $80 with a 2 year contract. This is the one with Wifi inside -- haveing a computer in your pocket takes some getting used to. It will be interesting to see if Apple can distinguish themselves, as they have always done, on the gui. To make it easy to use as a phone when you need a phone, and as a featureful computer when that is needed considering the limitations of the form factor. That is slightly different than making it just easy to use. I predict that the iphone will die early if they keep the software closed and not have it read my mind. However if it is the case that they make it safer for me to make a phone call on the road, as well as being a good PDA/computer they may have a chance. Also you probably wouldn't need myth TV on the Iphone for the reasons Apple does distinguish themselves as described above. Marty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 4 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:26:36 -0500 From: Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: To: community community@lists.openmoko.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Apple has said they won't allow any third party apps they don't approve. That most likely means no apps Cingular doesn't approve also. You think Cingular is going to allow VOIP apps that reduce the money Cingular makes off the phone? You think I'll be able to get my little MythTV remote app approved by Apple? etc. The iPhone hardware may be sweet, but the rest is a nightmare. -Steven On 4/27/07, Duncan Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4) Relax... you're not going to be able to add features to an iPhone. OSX is unix based, so you and I both know that one will be able to add apps to the iPhone. We also both know that for it to succeed in the business environment they'll have to allow 3rd party apps. Know that I want nothing more than for this device to succeed, but I truly believe with each slip its success becomes more difficult. There comes a point in the game when one just has to play the hand that they're holding - whether it's a winning hand or not... Dunc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Ian Stirling wrote: As it is, it sounds like the first preorders (if that's still going to be done) are going to be delivered sometime May 20, if the screen problems are resolved. Leaving a couple of months dev time at best before there is something to show to carriers or phone shop chains if they are to carry it in September. One has to accept pre-orders in order to ship pre-orders, no? Have they done that? I thought the only thing was the 'want list' on the wiki. Dunc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Jim Thompson wrote: 1) the Openmoko-for-customers is slated for 9/11/07, so it was going to ship after the Q207 date for the iPhone in any case. It was supposed to be in developers enthusiasts hands back in February - was it not? The plan was to get the geek on board, get them writing apps and fixing problems so that when the general release happened it would have everything in place to blow the competitors away. Well, as we all know it didn't ship so nobody (ok a few) is working on anything. So when / if it ships in September will it really be that impressive? Yes, to you and me it'll be great - a Linux based phone will be wonderful. But to my mom, your neighbor? No, they'll opt for the polished ready to roll iPhone. 2) the iPhone may slip too. Its all the rumor in the Apple world these days. We already know that Apple has slipped its next OS release (10.5) because it put some large number of its OS folks on the iPhone project, in order to get it out the door. It may, but they have a hell of a lot more at stake if they slip the date. To pull developers of OSX, put them on the iPhone, and then slip both dates? Their stock would tank unbelievably - I don't think they'll slip the iPhone date. 3) the iPhone is being sold (in the US) through ATT/Cingular's channels, which are deep and wide. Getting a consumer to the iPhone will be easy. Getting that same individual to an OpenMoko phone will be much more difficult. Getting the 'average joe' to the OpenMoko unknown is going to be difficult at best. Getting the 'average joe' to the OpenMoko when the iPhone, et. al., are flooding the market will be next to impossible. 4) Relax... you're not going to be able to add features to an iPhone. OSX is unix based, so you and I both know that one will be able to add apps to the iPhone. We also both know that for it to succeed in the business environment they'll have to allow 3rd party apps. Know that I want nothing more than for this device to succeed, but I truly believe with each slip its success becomes more difficult. There comes a point in the game when one just has to play the hand that they're holding - whether it's a winning hand or not... Dunc ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Duncan Hudson wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: snip 4) Relax... you're not going to be able to add features to an iPhone. OSX is unix based, so you and I both know that one will be able to add apps to the iPhone. We also both know that for it to succeed in the business environment they'll have to allow 3rd party apps. Know? That's a little strong. Custom u-boot, or something like it, that will only accept signed firmware images to upgrade. Properly setup security, with an installer that will only install signed apps. Kernel that will only run signed binaries. Oh - if you pay apple large amounts of money, sure. Free? Well I doubt it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
On 27-Apr-07, at 5:09 PM, Duncan Hudson wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: 1) the Openmoko-for-customers is slated for 9/11/07, so it was going to ship after the Q207 date for the iPhone in any case. It was supposed to be in developers enthusiasts hands back in February - was it not? The plan was to get the geek on board, get them writing apps and fixing problems so that when the general release happened it would have everything in place to blow the competitors away. Well, as we all know it didn't ship so nobody (ok a few) is working on anything. So when / if it ships in September will it really be that impressive? Yes, to you and me it'll be great - a Linux based phone will be wonderful. But to my mom, your neighbor? No, they'll opt for the polished ready to roll iPhone. I think it's wrong to assume that every customer that FIC loses with the Neo will go to the iPhone. First of all the iPhone's price point is quite high when compared to the Neo, and will be out of reach for many. Also see my point bellow about distribution channels. 2) the iPhone may slip too. Its all the rumor in the Apple world these days. We already know that Apple has slipped its next OS release (10.5) because it put some large number of its OS folks on the iPhone project, in order to get it out the door. It may, but they have a hell of a lot more at stake if they slip the date. To pull developers of OSX, put them on the iPhone, and then slip both dates? Their stock would tank unbelievably - I don't think they'll slip the iPhone date. 3) the iPhone is being sold (in the US) through ATT/Cingular's channels, which are deep and wide. Getting a consumer to the iPhone will be easy. Getting that same individual to an OpenMoko phone will be much more difficult. Getting the 'average joe' to the OpenMoko unknown is going to be difficult at best. Getting the 'average joe' to the OpenMoko when the iPhone, et. al., are flooding the market will be next to impossible. I don't know what FIC's plans are for selling the phone through mobile providers in the future, but having 'average joe' buy the handset from FIC directly is _the_ major barier to wider distribution in my opinion. At least in North America, not many 'average joes' buy their handset from anyone but the mobile carrier. So if FIC can get the phone distributed through carriers, I can easily see them having pretty good sales figures. Whether carriers would like to sell an open phone is an entirely different story of course... 4) Relax... you're not going to be able to add features to an iPhone. OSX is unix based, so you and I both know that one will be able to add apps to the iPhone. We also both know that for it to succeed in the business environment they'll have to allow 3rd party apps. Know that I want nothing more than for this device to succeed, but I truly believe with each slip its success becomes more difficult. There comes a point in the game when one just has to play the hand that they're holding - whether it's a winning hand or not... Agreed, and much like many others I'm eagerly waiting for the chance to pre-order the first revision of the Neo. Igor ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
On 4/27/07, Igor Foox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what FIC's plans are for selling the phone through mobile providers in the future, but having 'average joe' buy the handset from FIC directly is _the_ major barier to wider distribution in my opinion. At least in North America, not many 'average joes' buy their handset from anyone but the mobile carrier. So if FIC can get the phone distributed through carriers, I can easily see them having pretty good sales figures. Whether carriers would like to sell an open phone is an entirely different story of course... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community As I understood it, FIC has been planning to sell the NEO hardware under some other OS as well from the very beginning, and that was the model that the cell providers would probably pick up (it could be an asia only phone too... they get all the cool toys). For any of the official guys, do you know if this is still the case? if so, how hard is it to re-flash the firmware? If it's not that hard, and we as the community could work up a real nice, average joe friendly, step by step howto document(complete with simple steps on what to do if you break it), we could have a backup distribution channel ...or maybe I've been cramming too much program logic into SQL SP's for the last 4 hours and I'm just too codeheaded to think straight Either way, thoughts? -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
On 4/27/07, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Duncan Hudson wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: snip 4) Relax... you're not going to be able to add features to an iPhone. OSX is unix based, so you and I both know that one will be able to add apps to the iPhone. We also both know that for it to succeed in the business environment they'll have to allow 3rd party apps. Know? That's a little strong. Custom u-boot, or something like it, that will only accept signed firmware images to upgrade. Properly setup security, with an installer that will only install signed apps. Kernel that will only run signed binaries. Oh - if you pay apple large amounts of money, sure. Free? Well I doubt it. I doubt that the Neo and the iPhone are real competitors. It's nice to compare the two, but that comparison is okewed, both devices cater to two different markets. And do you all really believe that mom would buy a phone that's as hideously expensive as the iPhone? In the US, you have to sign a two year contract with Cingular, whether you are a current customer or not! And if that weren't enough, also pay 500 US dollars for the cheapest version. (No, there is no discount on that) Now let's compare THAT with the Neo offering: - No need to sign a new contract if you already have GSM - And the price is 350 USD (plus shipping?) But let's be honest here, it's incredibly hard to get into the cellphone market, with those giant names as Nokia, Sony-Ericsson and the likes. The openess of the Neo is only a selling point for us 'geeks'. What the device needs is something that Joe from the street wants, nay, needs to use. And while you are correct that development will soar once the dev phones ship, I'm sure there are already people working on great software using the openmoko-makefile, and other dev-tools. But don't expect stellar sales from people not in the know. I doubt that I would be able to find the Neo at our local GSM shop. But that's just my opinion. greetings, Marcel de Jong ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Jim Thompson wrote: Duncan Hudson wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. I'm as anxious as anyone to get my hands on one of these, but it just concerns me that the date has slipped again. With each slip the competition gets closer and closer. Openmoko has been compared, favorably, by many sources to the iPhone - and it was originally scheduled to ship months before that device. Now we're talking about shipping after the iPhone, so the bar that you have to clear will have been raised considerably. 1) the Openmoko-for-customers is slated for 9/11/07, so it was going to ship after the Q207 date for the iPhone in any case. Sure. But of course, the software would have been a hell of a lot more ready come 2-3 months before september, when it might otherwise have been shown to some carriers that might have been interested in subsidising it, or phone shops, if the original January date had been kept. As it is, it sounds like the first preorders (if that's still going to be done) are going to be delivered sometime May 20, if the screen problems are resolved. Leaving a couple of months dev time at best before there is something to show to carriers or phone shop chains if they are to carry it in September. I'm not of course saying there is much FIC could have done to avoid this, just that even though September is a long way away, (ish), a consumer-usable phone a few months before then would be a very nice thing to show to potential vendors. p.s. Of course I know you can develop without hardware. Some people are only really going to start once they have some. p.p.s. What's the fault on the screens? If it's livable with, I'd be moderately happy with getting shipped a 'faulty' one, then having a screen turn up in an envelope in a few weeks. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
On Wednesday 25 April 2007 01:51:45 Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Oh and Imre Kaloz gets a freed phone, too. Thanks for being the first to tell us about Atheros. We're almost for sure going to use their AR6K chipset in our next product. I just have to ask: is there any broad schedule / specs for the P1.5 phone already? pgpazAnfGwp8H.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
On Wed, 2007-04-25 at 08:26 +0200, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: On Wednesday 25 April 2007 01:51:45 Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Oh and Imre Kaloz gets a freed phone, too. Thanks for being the first to tell us about Atheros. We're almost for sure going to use their AR6K chipset in our next product. I just have to ask: is there any broad schedule / specs for the P1.5 phone already? Not yet. We're still working on the schematics. When things get finalized I'll make another announcement. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Thank you so much for the update! I was frantically searching for HW since i heard it would be available in March and thought i was missing out. Glad to know i didn't miss the boat! This is also my first post to the list - i've been reading as many as i can since joining about a week ago. Also hoping to be of service to the community! I skimmed a thread regarding GPS in the phone - I haven't looked up the datasheet for the chipset being used, but I know many GPS chips spout NMEA-183 messages. I have some old C routines i wrote about 10 yrs ago for parsing NMEA-183 protocol - if anybody thinks they'd be of use i can dust 'em off and submit them. Thanks again for setting up such a fantastic project! --clayton On 4/24/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, We owe you all an update as to our status. Here it goes... Last week we finished 200 devices. Of these about 50 seem to have some problems but the rest are functionally complete, tested, and ready to go. We know the source of the problems for the 50 that failed and this is already corrected. This is great news because it means we can finally start to move out of engineering sample mode and into real production! These first 150 (or so) devices will go to phase 0 developers and our internal / external developers -- of which many still don't even have phones! Oh and Imre Kaloz gets a freed phone, too. Thanks for being the first to tell us about Atheros. We're almost for sure going to use their AR6K chipset in our next product. We must forewarn you all that we're having some supply issues with our 2.8 VGA LCM. Our vendor has had more than their fair share of troubles moving this LCM into mass production. We have some in stock now. But this might be the major bottleneck moving forward. There are only a few companies currently making LCMs of this size and resolution. Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. Thanks again for your continued support and patience. The light at the end of the tunnel is getting a little brighter :-) Sincerely, The Core Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
On 11000 March 1977, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: We owe you all an update as to our status. Here it goes... Great news, thanks. -- bye Joerg _DeadBull_ ohne speicher, tastatur, mouse, pladde, monitor, also nur die Hardware... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Duncan Hudson wrote: Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. I'm as anxious as anyone to get my hands on one of these, but it just concerns me that the date has slipped again. With each slip the competition gets closer and closer. Openmoko has been compared, favorably, by many sources to the iPhone - and it was originally scheduled to ship months before that device. Now we're talking about shipping after the iPhone, so the bar that you have to clear will have been raised considerably. 1) the Openmoko-for-customers is slated for 9/11/07, so it was going to ship after the Q207 date for the iPhone in any case. 2) the iPhone may slip too. Its all the rumor in the Apple world these days. We already know that Apple has slipped its next OS release (10.5) because it put some large number of its OS folks on the iPhone project, in order to get it out the door. Most of us understand that adding people to a slipping project typically makes it slip harder. 3) the iPhone is being sold (in the US) through ATT/Cingular's channels, which are deep and wide. Getting a consumer to the iPhone will be easy. Getting that same individual to an OpenMoko phone will be much more difficult. 4) Relax... you're not going to be able to add features to an iPhone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Some light ahead...
Dear Community, We owe you all an update as to our status. Here it goes... Last week we finished 200 devices. Of these about 50 seem to have some problems but the rest are functionally complete, tested, and ready to go. We know the source of the problems for the 50 that failed and this is already corrected. This is great news because it means we can finally start to move out of engineering sample mode and into real production! These first 150 (or so) devices will go to phase 0 developers and our internal / external developers -- of which many still don't even have phones! Oh and Imre Kaloz gets a freed phone, too. Thanks for being the first to tell us about Atheros. We're almost for sure going to use their AR6K chipset in our next product. We must forewarn you all that we're having some supply issues with our 2.8 VGA LCM. Our vendor has had more than their fair share of troubles moving this LCM into mass production. We have some in stock now. But this might be the major bottleneck moving forward. There are only a few companies currently making LCMs of this size and resolution. Finally, we've already begun moving production into one of our factories in mainland China. There are two runs scheduled now: May 10th and May 20th. We're going to take those runs a bit slow just to make sure the quality is high. And then starting in June, things can run full speed. Thanks again for your continued support and patience. The light at the end of the tunnel is getting a little brighter :-) Sincerely, The Core Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Some light ahead...
This is great:) I think the core team has done a great job so far and I cannot wait to get a neo in my hands... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Hurray! This is fantastic news. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Not long now! This is my first post to this listserv by the way. I read the discussions every day and I must say, this is a truly exciting project. I'm hoping I can help out somehow. Way to go, all! -Alex R. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some light ahead...
I'm certainly grateful for all of the lost sleep and long flights. Thanks for your diligence! I'm eagerly awaiting the pre-order stage and news about the phase 1.5 discount ;-) sigh... you give a meter, we take a mile. Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
