Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)
Good idea to put this straight. In what mode would you expect listening to audio would be? Best Regards, Jens On Sat, 2008-04-19 at 14:37 +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Guys, you really need to set the terminology straight here otherwise we spread FUD. Feature phones only differ between talk time and standby time. For us, it's a bit more complicated, since we have more modes. Can we agree on the following: usage time = CPU is powered on, lots of peripherals have power and you're actually talking and doing lots of things. standby time = CPU is powered on, but the display and most peripherals are off to save power. You are doing something that requires the CPU to be on though. suspend time = CPU is powered off. only gsm (and RTC and some other wakeup sources) are listening for events. Now I _personally_ expect the following from FreeRunner: usage time = 2 to 8 hours, depending on what you're actually doing standby time = 10 hours suspend time = 2-3 days ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)
2008/4/19, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Feature phones only differ between talk time and standby time. For us, it's a bit more complicated, since we have more modes. Can we agree on the following: usage time = CPU is powered on, lots of peripherals have power and you're actually talking and doing lots of things. standby time = CPU is powered on, but the display and most peripherals are off to save power. You are doing something that requires the CPU to be on though. suspend time = CPU is powered off. only gsm (and RTC and some other wakeup sources) are listening for events. Why can't we keep the existing terminology? I think what you refer to as 'suspend time' should really be called 'standby time', since it is how most people think of it - how long will the battery last when the phone is not being used. What you call 'usage time' I think we could keep calling 'talk time', since it seems to me to be the same thing, and is in common use. What you call 'standby time' doesn't seem like a very important state to me, I would think that for most people the phone would either be used (what you call 'usage time'), or in your pocket or whatever, when you want maximum battery time, what you call 'suspend time'. Maybe we could call it 'music playback time', since that seems to be one usage of this mode. /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/19, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Feature phones only differ between talk time and standby time. For us, it's a bit more complicated, since we have more modes. Can we agree on the following: usage time = CPU is powered on, lots of peripherals have power and you're actually talking and doing lots of things. standby time = CPU is powered on, but the display and most peripherals are off to save power. You are doing something that requires the CPU to be on though. suspend time = CPU is powered off. only gsm (and RTC and some other wakeup sources) are listening for events. Why can't we keep the existing terminology? As you're going to state here, not everyone agrees on what the existing terminology means. You can call it whatever you want as long as everyone using the term understands what the terms mean. Mickey's terms clear up the ambiguity. I think what you refer to as 'suspend time' should really be called 'standby time', since it is how most people think of it - how long will the battery last when the phone is not being used. That makes assumptions that we can't be sure of yet. We should work to clear up those assumptions first. What you call 'usage time' I think we could keep calling 'talk time', since it seems to me to be the same thing, and is in common use. Broadcasting a GSM signal uses more power than playing Sudoko so the times will be different. I don't think either term here really clears that up. How much talk time does the Freerunner currently get? This means while broadcasting GSM signal. How much usage time can the Freerunner get, for instance playing sudoku? What is the frame in between? Could someone expect 10 hours of sit on my desk while I sleep and have the phone do nothing? Does this drop to 6 hours when playing music via a bluetooth headset (since it's processing audio and broadcasting over BT). What battery life could someone expect while making a call from full charge to battery death while using a Bluetooth headset? Perhaps a battery life FAQ might make more sense... I'll see if I can't start one. What you call 'standby time' doesn't seem like a very important state to me, I would think that for most people the phone would either be used (what you call 'usage time'), or in your pocket or whatever, when you want maximum battery time, what you call 'suspend time'. There's a critical difference, but exactly how requires more information. The GTA01 currently can't accept incoming calls while in suspend, so for the average person suspend is useless since suspending does NOTHING except essentially decrease boot time - it has the same functionality as turning the device off and uses more power. Can the Freerunner resume on incoming call? If so, someone could suspend the device and toss it in their pocket/purse, reap maximum battery life AND keep the primary functionality intact. If it can't resume on incoming call, I'd agree it's essentially useless. Maybe we could call it 'music playback time', since that seems to be one usage of this mode. /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you call 'standby time' doesn't seem like a very important state to me... I would disagree that this state(regardless of what you want to call it) is unimportant. I think that, while this may be true for the majority of *closed* phones on the market, the open-ness of the freerunner will allow this area to grow significantly. Seeing it as not simply a cellphone, but more in terms of a general computing device with great connectivity(GSM, wifi, GPS, bluetooth, etc.), will allow for uses that might not be completely obvious at the moment. I think as the software is further developed, this sort of state will could more and more important. I do however agree with your point about the generally accepted meaning of Standby time. I think most other phones talk about battery life in terms of talk time and standby time as their two modes of operation. -Hans Loeblich ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)
2008/4/19, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Can the Freerunner resume on incoming call? If so, someone could suspend the device and toss it in their pocket/purse, reap maximum battery life AND keep the primary functionality intact. If it can't resume on incoming call, I'd agree it's essentially useless. My impression from the mailing list discussions is that the Freerunner can resume on an incoming call (which is how a reasonable, or very good, 'standby time' has been achieved. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I _personally_ expect the following from FreeRunner: usage time = 2 to 8 hours, depending on what you're actually doing standby time = 10 hours suspend time = 2-3 days Thanks for the information:) -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
