Re: Tinymail on it?
On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 05:12 +, Jon Phillips wrote: > > I very recently started playing a little bit with the SyncML API, and > > since it's not very difficult to get something basic working I might > > implement some support for this sooner or later too. > > Yes, this would be amazingly stellar for mobile apps. It appears that > messaging is a big missing piece right now, so tinymail with some > extensions would be an amazing opportunity in the messaging arena. While I don't see the real cool thing about SynCML (it's just a rather simplistic synchronisation standard, but simplism is actually probably it's most powerful feature), I do see the use for it in tinymail. This will eventually translate into me developing (some) support for SyncML into tinymail. It would certainly mean that I'll actively encourage and support somebody who would develop this for tinymail or for Camel or tinymail's camel-lite (should be the same code then, as the API of camel-lite nor the cache format hasn't really changed that much). > What is the current extensibility of tinymail? How could we go about > adding SMS support to tinymail to treat it like a first class piece of > mail? The only difficulty that I see with SMS and MMS is that the format of those messages isn't RFC822 (E-mails with MIME parts, etc etc). This means implementing a TnyMimePart for SMS and MMS that deals with the format efficiently and correctly. I have never even looked at how those messages look, heck I never use the feature on my phone (actually, I hate it when people send me an SMS. I prefer hearing the voice of the person who's contacting me .. hehe). Oh, another difficulty might be building a summary from the messages. I can imagine that the messages only have a "from phone number" and that the user wants to see the person's name if the person is in the contact list. Or the subject, the dates, etc etc ... -- Philip Van Hoof, software developer home: me at pvanhoof dot be gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org http://www.pvanhoof.be/blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tinymail on it?
On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 11:06 -0800, Jon Phillips wrote: > > Oh, this is great news indeed. I installed the Contacts and Dates apps > from openhanded with no troubles, but when I tried to install Tinymail, > I need the customized libraries. Are there instructions for how to do a > build, where to find the updated libraries, and without breaking my old > system's libraries ;) No, you don't need to compile nor patch any customised libraries. All such customisations have been done within tinymail's code. This means that the only source code you need, is the one in the repository of tinymail. In other words, the modified camel-lite is part of the tinymail code as-is. The code also will not clash, in any way, with existing libraries or installations. That's because binary and directory-path names have been changed to be appended with the "-lite" suffix. Even the .pc files, used by autotools, have been renamed that way. > Current OpenMoko developers, could you comment on the state of messaging > on OpenMoko and if this is a good direction to go on merging these > message types behind this soon-to-become handheld standard mail app? :) > > The tinymail, dates and contacts applications are awesome, well > supported by opened hand, nokia/maemo and others. Thus, it seems logical > to jump on the bandwagon to gain group benefits and to have an upstream > source for email... > On the subject of ... "support", Please make sure not to make the misconception that Nokia is behind tinymail as the leading force or playing a leading role for the project. Although it's true that Nokia is helping or sponsoring various development efforts and features of tinymail, it's not-so that Nokia is doing the project. The tinymail project is a true free software and community project led by me. Various people have done feature development on behalf of Nokia for tinymail, including me, but the initial start of the project had very few to do with Nokia. The current "engine" behind tinymail also isn't "Nokia" but rather .. simply .. me and my believe in it :-) While I agree that their interest in the project adds quite a lot fuel to that engine, it wouldn't be correct if one would start thinking that tinymail is a "Nokia-only"-something. That is absolutely not the case. It is the case that Nokia are the earliest adaptors and the first mobile device vendor to be interested in the project. And that they have been financing the development of very interesting features. That they contacted me at Guadec. Etc etc etc. But nothing would stop me from accepting contract working for other such vendors. Nor would anything stop me from taking different directions for the project. Except of course that a few API promises based on release numbers. Promises that make sense for any library. But I do want to be very clear, I even want to stress it and I want to put a big emphasis on ... that tinymail is not for only Nokia. Oh, and underline that too. Mark it. Make it bold. Capitalise it. In fact would I be very interested in other such markets and other such vendors. And not only me, as I'm building a network of competence around the project. With members like, X-Tend & Freebility, Collabora, Kernel Concepts and Igalia. And I hope more like them soon. -- Philip Van Hoof, software developer home: me at pvanhoof dot be gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org http://www.pvanhoof.be/blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tinymail on it?
On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 12:44 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 05:12 +, Jon Phillips wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 01:56 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > > > I already asked it to some internal E-mail address, the reaction back > > > then was positive but no real certainties. > > > > > > Is there interest from the OpenMoko team for bringing tinymail to the > > > device? (http://tinymail.org) > > > > > > I've been reading the discussions about push e-mail, and that idea is > > > all nice and stuff. But you'll still need an actual client to display > > > the e-mails themselves. > > > > > > Philip, this would be great. You should hop over toe the openmoko-devel > > mailing list to discuss more. There is discussion about an integrating > > messaging app. Tinymail is great, uses evolution data server, and could > > hopefully be adapted to the openmoko platform. > > It looks like that mailing list is an invite-only one, or else isn't the > mailman on the server working correctly (I haven't yet received a > confirmation E-mail). > > I'd be happy to join that mailing list and discuss the technical pieces > of messaging with you guys. Especially when it comes to RFC822 messages > (E-mails, MIME parts, etc etc) ... > > > Yes, this would be amazingly stellar for mobile apps. It appears that > > messaging is a big missing piece right now, so tinymail with some > > extensions would be an amazing opportunity in the messaging arena. > > > > What is the current extensibility of tinymail? How could we go about > > adding SMS support to tinymail to treat it like a first class piece of > > mail? > > ... and of course also non-RFC822 messages and services that deliver > such messages to the software on the device. Although we will have to > check how we can blend-in such messages into the current API. > > It might mean that I will have to make the current API more flexible, > maybe this can be solved internally within the implementations of that > API, etcetera ... ? > > But I would be very happy to discuss this indeed. And I'm certainly > willing to actively change things in order to support SMS and MMS type > of messages. > Oh, this is great news indeed. I installed the Contacts and Dates apps from openhanded with no troubles, but when I tried to install Tinymail, I need the customized libraries. Are there instructions for how to do a build, where to find the updated libraries, and without breaking my old system's libraries ;) Current OpenMoko developers, could you comment on the state of messaging on OpenMoko and if this is a good direction to go on merging these message types behind this soon-to-become handheld standard mail app? :) The tinymail, dates and contacts applications are awesome, well supported by opened hand, nokia/maemo and others. Thus, it seems logical to jump on the bandwagon to gain group benefits and to have an upstream source for email... Jon > -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tinymail on it?
On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 12:44 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > It looks like that mailing list is an invite-only one, or else isn't the > mailman on the server working correctly (I haven't yet received a > confirmation E-mail). Nevermind, I received it. It should work now :) -- Philip Van Hoof, software developer home: me at pvanhoof dot be gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org http://www.pvanhoof.be/blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tinymail on it?
On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 05:12 +, Jon Phillips wrote: > On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 01:56 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > > I already asked it to some internal E-mail address, the reaction back > > then was positive but no real certainties. > > > > Is there interest from the OpenMoko team for bringing tinymail to the > > device? (http://tinymail.org) > > > > I've been reading the discussions about push e-mail, and that idea is > > all nice and stuff. But you'll still need an actual client to display > > the e-mails themselves. > > > Philip, this would be great. You should hop over toe the openmoko-devel > mailing list to discuss more. There is discussion about an integrating > messaging app. Tinymail is great, uses evolution data server, and could > hopefully be adapted to the openmoko platform. It looks like that mailing list is an invite-only one, or else isn't the mailman on the server working correctly (I haven't yet received a confirmation E-mail). I'd be happy to join that mailing list and discuss the technical pieces of messaging with you guys. Especially when it comes to RFC822 messages (E-mails, MIME parts, etc etc) ... > Yes, this would be amazingly stellar for mobile apps. It appears that > messaging is a big missing piece right now, so tinymail with some > extensions would be an amazing opportunity in the messaging arena. > > What is the current extensibility of tinymail? How could we go about > adding SMS support to tinymail to treat it like a first class piece of > mail? ... and of course also non-RFC822 messages and services that deliver such messages to the software on the device. Although we will have to check how we can blend-in such messages into the current API. It might mean that I will have to make the current API more flexible, maybe this can be solved internally within the implementations of that API, etcetera ... ? But I would be very happy to discuss this indeed. And I'm certainly willing to actively change things in order to support SMS and MMS type of messages. -- Philip Van Hoof, software developer home: me at pvanhoof dot be gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org http://www.pvanhoof.be/blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tinymail on it?
On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 01:56 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > I already asked it to some internal E-mail address, the reaction back > then was positive but no real certainties. > > Is there interest from the OpenMoko team for bringing tinymail to the > device? (http://tinymail.org) > > I've been reading the discussions about push e-mail, and that idea is > all nice and stuff. But you'll still need an actual client to display > the e-mails themselves. Philip, this would be great. You should hop over toe the openmoko-devel mailing list to discuss more. There is discussion about an integrating messaging app. Tinymail is great, uses evolution data server, and could hopefully be adapted to the openmoko platform. > Nevertheless am I of course interested in whatever the final decision on > push E-mail will be. > > I read how people where suggesting to use the newer IMAP IDLE capability > for this. I would like to point out, however, that not yet all IMAP > servers support this. Nevertheless is support for IDLE being planned in > tinymail. (Condstore, STARTTLS and Binary are already implemented by the > way). > > I very recently started playing a little bit with the SyncML API, and > since it's not very difficult to get something basic working I might > implement some support for this sooner or later too. Yes, this would be amazingly stellar for mobile apps. It appears that messaging is a big missing piece right now, so tinymail with some extensions would be an amazing opportunity in the messaging arena. What is the current extensibility of tinymail? How could we go about adding SMS support to tinymail to treat it like a first class piece of mail? Jon > ps. I will be at FOSDEM so if you see me, feel free to ask me any > question about tinymail. > -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tinymail on it?
On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 01:56 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > Nevertheless am I of course interested in whatever the final decision on > push E-mail will be. By the way, in case people wonder about this. On both POP3 and IMAP E-mail messages are uniquely identified by a so called uid. The message being pushed to the client must at least get that uid string value as notification. "How" is (for me) an implementation detail. It can indeed be UDP, multicast, a tcp/ip connection on gprs that is kept open, IMAP IDLE, postal mail with stamps and on paper and pigeons. With only that uid I can let the client act on that notification by asking for the remainder of the summary item (and in case the user also wants to read the E-mail, the entire message a few moments later .. of course). The uid is usually >= 3 and < 10 characters in length. For example on most IMAP servers it simply looks like "100", "101", "102", etc etc. With the CONDSTORE IMAP capability it's also possible to retrieve the simple 'signal' that I have to compare the highestmodseq value of the current active folder or of a specific (specified) folder. I hope that this extra info injected some new ideas .. ;-) ps. Note that in the tinymail API, upon retrieval of such a signal and after retrieving the remainder of the summary item (if still necessary), all the observers of the folder would be notified. That includes the models of the folder-views. By that I mean that the view will automatically be updated (a new summary item will be added instantly). Search for TnyFolderObserver for more info on this. -- Philip Van Hoof, software developer home: me at pvanhoof dot be gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org http://www.pvanhoof.be/blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Tinymail on it?
I already asked it to some internal E-mail address, the reaction back then was positive but no real certainties. Is there interest from the OpenMoko team for bringing tinymail to the device? (http://tinymail.org) I've been reading the discussions about push e-mail, and that idea is all nice and stuff. But you'll still need an actual client to display the e-mails themselves. Nevertheless am I of course interested in whatever the final decision on push E-mail will be. I read how people where suggesting to use the newer IMAP IDLE capability for this. I would like to point out, however, that not yet all IMAP servers support this. Nevertheless is support for IDLE being planned in tinymail. (Condstore, STARTTLS and Binary are already implemented by the way). I very recently started playing a little bit with the SyncML API, and since it's not very difficult to get something basic working I might implement some support for this sooner or later too. ps. I will be at FOSDEM so if you see me, feel free to ask me any question about tinymail. -- Philip Van Hoof, software developer home: me at pvanhoof dot be gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org http://www.pvanhoof.be/blog ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
