Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Re: What moblie service to get, part 2 Hi all, I noticed that not all compatible carriers are listed at GSMworld. It would be nice to get people to check the wiki, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers and check GSMworld. http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml If your service provider is not listed either place, and they have a GSM network with GPRS or EDGE data, it would be neat to list them on the Wiki page I linked to above. I added my carrier for the past 4 years in the northeastern US, Unicel. They are part of the Rural Cellular Corporation, and they own the primary GSM network where I live in Vermont, USA. Once I get my Neo later this year, I'll give some feedback on their data service offerings. Andrew Crawford -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF9EvKTHCOtwancvwRAm9YAJ9oQ96D6LsfuqMaXCxCUvHPpo1p4wCgpVYk fH1m5wfE+TzjGJ47/DVX6D8= =AYE6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 18:47 -0500, Erik wrote: > 8. I'm not even sure that you can have a data plan without a voice >plan. Seems like at the very least you might not get the >smartphone rebate if you don't get the rebate. Both Cingular and SunCom (who have GSM roaming in my area) do data only smartphone plans. They market it to Deaf customers (who tend not to use airtime minutes). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Just to add a clairification to t-mobils data plans (the ones available with contract) The "free" data plan is the walled-garden plan, called t-zones. It is included with any of the basic contracts. It can access only t-mobile approved sites. Next step up, is "t-mobileweb", for 5.99 additional a month. It can access any host on the internet, but only specific tcp ports. Web access has to go through port 8080, therefore requires use of a proxy (t-mobile provides a proxy for web access). Also, some other ports are available, such as for pop email, etc. But, if you have a home broadband connection you should be able to set up a vpn tunnel via one of the open ports, and then use that to get anywhere. I do that currently with my motorola a780 (using ssh and port forwarding, but vpn's should also work). All open ports are tcp only, however (udp doesn't appear to work). Next is "t-mobile total internet" for 29.95. This plan can use almost any port, tcp and udp, to any site. It is the one normally used with smartphones. Also includes access to t-mobile hotspots. They used to have the total internet plan for 19.95 without hotspots, but recently combined both plans (they must not have been selling that many hotspot plans). If you don't want the hotspots but internet only, you can subscribe to the blackberry connect plan which appears to be the same as the old intenet-only plan. To do this, go to my.t-mobile.com, change your phone model to a blackberry, then you will have an option to select this plan. Cost is $19.95. Note that t-mobile has no by-the-kbyte plans. Therefore, you will never be suppriesed by a $500 phone bill for excess data. Cingular, however, does have a cap of $99.99 per month on their data plans (last time I looked into it). So you can get buy with one of their cheaper plans (instead of getting the $79.99 unlimited plan) if you mostly won't use that much data. Hopefully this hasn't changed since I looked into it. Another good place to look for information is on howardforums.com, they have carrier specific message boards that usually have carrier employees hanging out on them, and they have a fairly accurate wiki with details on the plans. Hope this helps... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Just as a data-point, what I'm doing in the US is I have a "family plan" with T-mobile with 700 or so minutes, free nights and weekends, unlimited data, and unlimited free T-mobile to T-mobile. I use a Sony- Ericsson T610 as my daily driver though I carry a Samsung T509 when I need EDGE. I have two SIMs attached to the same bill. One I use in my T610 and that's the number that most people have for me. The other SIM I use for experimentation with the Telit based "frankenphone" I've been working on. In theory, the software I've been writing will be added to the myPhone stack, and later maybe to the OpenMoKo project if it makes sense. But the bottom line is, I use a boat-load of minutes each month, but 700 non-night and weekend minutes is generally enough. It doesn't cost too much to get in on a family plan, and the free T-mob to T-mob calling allows me to test my dialer software and frankenphone hardware without eroding my 700 monthly minutes. I think I'm paying something like $54/month or so. You probably can't go wrong with either Cingular or T-Mob, their plans and prices are more or less similar. Cingular seems to have noticeably better tech-support and T-Mobile's 411 service is absolutely, positively useless. T-Mob tech support is hit or miss; it's a 50-50 chance of getting someone who knows what you're talking about and then another 50-50 chance to find someone who cares enough to volunteer options. So, I've just accepted that on average, I'm going to go through two or three support reps before getting someone who knows what's going on. -Cheers -Matt H. On Mar 9, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Jonathon Suggs writes: You can "dial" up, it will be really slow and probably unreliable. I think 9.6k is as fast as you can go. Not to mention that when you "dialing in" you will be using your cell phone minutes. A data plan allows you to use GPRS, which is a newer (still pretty old though) and faster connection up to 56k. The down side is that you will probably have to sign a contract. You will then either get an unlimited plan (~$20-40/month) or a pay as you go plan (~.15/kb). Let me know if you want more details. And anyone else feel free to correct any mis-information. I'd like as many details as I can get, please. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
I used to sell T-Mobile, Cingular, AT&T (before they merged), & Sprint. I've been a T-Mo customer for about seven years, and I wanted to offer the benefit of my experience and knowledge. The info I offer is based on T-Mobile USA service. [Disclaimer: I don't - and never did - work for a carrier, and I am not associated with - or benefitting at all from anyone selecting - any of these service. In addition, I accept no responsibility if something I say here is incorrect and you end up in a 35-year contract for useless services ;)] T-Mo prepaid is voice and messaging only, no data services. (well, that's not exactly true - they offer prepaid service for the Sidekick, at $1/day for data plus $0.15/min voice, but I'm pretty sure this requires a Sidekick) Cingular/ATT is the same - the GoPhone deals offer 'data' services, but AFAIK they're carrier-provided services like weather, news, etc only, NOT general unrestricted internet access. So you can send SMS messages and use GSM (voice) channels, but no true data connection. You CAN run dial-up over GSM - I now work for an internet provider, and have successfully had my old Nokia 6600 GSM phone configured to directly dial up to one of our dialup racks, using the dialer and browser in the phone, as well as bluetooth from a Zaurus. Connection speed is 9600 baud. (er, bps - showing my age there ;) Sufficient for some limited uses, but not suitable for most web browsing, let alone bandwidth-consuming uses like google maps. (a typical 640x480-sized browser view of google maps takes well over a minute to load imagery with satellite/hybrid selected - by contrast, SSH works pretty satisfactorily, with the exception of the noticeable keystroke lag, which is present over GPRS and EDGE as well) GSM utilizes a voip codec that is named (wait for it::) GSM. The GSM codec is designed to compress audio to fit within a 9600bps datastream. Data services. There are two basic grades of service here. The first is the 'walled-garden' variety - with T-Mo this is called 'T-Zones' and 'T-MobileWeb', and offers access only to services provided by T-Mo themselves or their partners - these services are NOT what most participants in this mailing list are interested in. (Reading plan info, they are careful to always refer to the 'mobile web' - this term isn't well explained, but it means 'mobile data services that the carrier allows/offers') The higher grade of data service is full data plans. These can be stand-alone data plans ($50/month unlimited data, "T-Mobile Total Internet", NOT Blackberry or Sidekick plans, which AFAIK require IMEI of one of those devices) or, more commonly, add-ons to a voice plan. At the lower end of the spectrum are plans with very limited amounts of data included, and charges per kb (although priced per mb, IIRC) beyond that. At the upper end are unlimited data plans. While carriers may classify their plain data plans as 'smartphone' vs 'pda' vs 'laptop', the only significant difference between those is the amount of included data per month. (at one point, at least, the 'smartphone' plans only allowed HTTP, SMTP, POP3, and DNS services through - but I'm fairly certain that's no longer the case, given the variety of devices available with ever-differing lists of features) FWIW, I'm on the T-Mo 'Unlimited VPN' data plan, an add-on to my basic voice plan. (also at some times called 'internet3' because the access is configured to 'internet3.voicestream.com') They don't offer it anymore AFAIK, although it would be well worth the trouble of asking if they'll give it to you. This add-on plan is $19.99/month for unlimited data, and the 'vpn' part refers to the fact that you have a persistent dynamic IP, whereas the ordinary data plans IIRC have many customers behind a single NAT IP. Service is tied to the SIM, and you must either have an unencumbered/unactivated SIM from that carrier, or buy one, almost always with a phone rather than by itself. (just buying a SIM they charge ~$25) Carriers subsidize handset prices to the dealers, to the tune of $100-$200 a pop sometimes. If you bring your own device (IE, Neo1973) to sign up for new service, a dealer will be ecstatic since they will get the subsidy without providing a handset. Most dealers will NOT offer anything back to you as the customer, (none that I've ever heard of) they just count the money and smile. The carrier themselves MAY offer a deal if you contact them directly, but don't hold your breath - their entire system is designed to put locked handsets in the hands of the consumers. With US carriers I'm familiar with, NONE of them will give any discount or rebate if you bring your own device at sign-up, although with a little finagling (and repeated requests to speak to a supervisor ;) 0it should be possible to sign up for service without requiring a contract, since the primary (but not sole) purpose of the contract is to ensure that you remain a customer at least long enough fo
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Is there really such a thing as a "data plan card" ? I can't find that on the gophone section of the cingular site. It only lists: $15 30 days $25 90 days $50 90 days $75 90 days $100365 days As far as I understand it you can get a sim card without having to buy a phone. At least I was able to do it with t-mobile. I had a phone already and I just signed up for a plan and told them I just needed a sim card and then got one out and configured it and I popped it into my phone. Now one thing I could recommend is that there are a lot of subsidies that come with phones. If you get a plan and don't get a phone you kind of forfeit your subsidy. So what I did was go to wirefly for their great rebates(make sure you fully understand their rebate policy or you'll get screwed, like you have to make 1 call from the phone, etc..) and then sell the locked phone on e-bay(make sure you mention it's locked to a provider) or try and unlock it which isn't that hard and that's how you can get cash subsidy. But that's just a suggestion. I have a feeling that both tmobile and cingular are going to do whatever they can to prohibit the openmoko phones. And I'm thinking the cheaper "smartphone" data plans will only work on cingular's devices, right? Like the device has to do something in order to be able to make use of it- some technical limitation? Otherwise I don't know why cingular sells two different plans, the "smartphone 5mb" is $9.99 and the "Data Connect 5MB" is $19.99. I don't get how else they'd be different. Would the neo be compatible with both? Who knows? I hope someone from the openmoko project reads this thread. I personally don't think they could technically discriminate the Neo1973 unless you let them upload their firmware patches to your phone which would be silly. Here is what I could gather about cingular's data plan and it looks like it might be area specific, example it asks me to input an area code which leads me to believe that it might change depending on where you live. So I will try to generalize this for everyone. It looks like it depends on your usage, or how much you download. In my area 5MB is 19.99, 10MB is 29.99, 20MB is 39.99, and unlimited is 44.99. Again I think it would be best to call cingular. They don't need to know that you will be using a neo1973 I don't think that would really change a thing just tell them your phone is capable of browsing the Internet in a PDA type fashion that should be enough information. The phone doesn't have to do anything to access the plan it's the sim card that tells the provider wither or not to let the phone access the Internet and what limit it has. If you are still unsure you can try out the different data plans if it's not quite what you want upgrade they will probably make you sign another contract if you are under a contract but if you do it all quickly it will probably only extend your contract a month or two. For the smart phone data plan I think that is unlimited restricted access. I would doubt very much that they would let you have full Internet browsing for only $20.00 a month. SO basic rule of thumb if it sounds cheap and convent it's not what you want. They are here to make money so if your device can browse a lot expect to pay a lot. I don't think you will need to step up into the laptop plan because that's way more than what you will probably be doing with the Neo1973, but I could be wrong again if it's not enough upgrade. Also a quick note I don't think you want any of the blackberry plans either. They seem to be tailored to e-mail and basic Internet browsing, but then again that might be what you want. My suggestion is that you probably want the Data Connect plan for either 39.99or 44.99 but that's just a guess. You are more than welcome to start at the 19.99 and work up until it works for you. OK, you're saying no matter what plan I sign up for with cingular, even prepaid, I have to buy a phone from them too, right? I can't like, go on ebay and buy a cheap used phone and still sign up with cingular, even prepaid? The one useful piece of info I may have then, is to tell you about the service I have now. I have ecallplus.com, which resells cingular. They have a few GSM plans, and you can bring your own phone... So if your sprint phone breaks you may have a cheaper path to GSM through them for your holdover. I really don't think you need to buy a phone to get a sim card. Call cingular and ask this question "Can I just get a sim card with a plan?" they will say yes or no. P.S. - I still think your best bet is to go to a store. If they ask what phone it is for tell them it's for a phone similar to the blackberry pearl or treo. If they still ask tell them it's for the neo 1973 if they say they don't support that phone tell them they are stupid because they do. I have purchased an unlocked sonyericsson w850i phone off e-bay. I had no plan so I signed up for a plan through wiref
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
One more side note T-mobile's data plans are a little more straight forward. An Internet only plan costs 49.99 for unlimited so I think that gives you an idea as to what it would cost cingular would probably charge looks like cingular is a little cheaper on this one and t-mobile requires a 2 year agreement I would be very surprised if cingular didn't do the same thing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Hi Mike, 3. Data plan it is. You can't add a data plan to a prepaid card. So either you have a prepaid voice card + data plan card, or you suck it up and sign up for a voice plan as well. Is there really such a thing as a "data plan card" ? I can't find that on the gophone section of the cingular site. It only lists: $1530 days $2590 days $5090 days $7590 days $100365 days 5. It seems to be a grey area, using a phone that they don't provide. I can see a good argument for calling the OpenMoko a SmartPhone. Which is great 'cause theres a $20/month unlimited data plan for smartphones. But there's no way to limit whether you can use it for tethered/laptop data access so who knows if they'd want to slap the tether fee on you. "just in case" fortunately I don't think they're that clue-full. I have a feeling that both tmobile and cingular are going to do whatever they can to prohibit the openmoko phones. And I'm thinking the cheaper "smartphone" data plans will only work on cingular's devices, right? Like the device has to do something in order to be able to make use of it- some technical limitation? Otherwise I don't know why cingular sells two different plans, the "smartphone 5mb" is $9.99 and the "Data Connect 5MB" is $19.99. I don't get how else they'd be different. Would the neo be compatible with both? Who knows? I hope someone from the openmoko project reads this thread. 6. It seems that you can only order a plan [get a sim card] with a phone. That's not such a financial problem if you're just getting a cheap voice plan, because there are lots of cheap/free after rebate voice phones you can get and not use. But to order a data plan from Cingular [of any of the tweleve types] you have to order a phone that is valid for that plan. OK, you're saying no matter what plan I sign up for with cingular, even prepaid, I have to buy a phone from them too, right? I can't like, go on ebay and buy a cheap used phone and still sign up with cingular, even prepaid? The one useful piece of info I may have then, is to tell you about the service I have now. I have ecallplus.com, which resells cingular. They have a few GSM plans, and you can bring your own phone... So if your sprint phone breaks you may have a cheaper path to GSM through them for your holdover. Although I am from Germany, I don't think the "plans" here are that different to yours. "Flat" plans are only available for post-paid contracts. Some pre-paid contracts allow GPRS connects charged by 10kB blocks. That means that you won't get charged for data connects per minute but per transfered data blocks (both directions!). The mobile companies do not make their money with phones. It is more the opposite, because they subsidize the phones to get them attractiv to potential customers. Long running contracts are the consequences. Look at the long running contracts as a kind of credit agreement for buying a mobile phone. If you do not take a subsidized phone, you can get a discount on the rates or alternatively a shorter contract period. None of the companies take care how you spend your money, as long as you spend much of it to them using their "lines". The difference between the "SmartPhone Connect" and the "Data Connect" plan is mentioned in the details. With the "Data Connect" you are able to synchronize your office stuff with your smartphone via mobile connections (although it will be limited to Microsoft software, I think). "SmartPhone Connect" lacks this "feature". That seems to be the reason for the different rates. To get one of this plans you will need to take an additional voice plan too. My advice for you would be, to ask your local phone shop guys for a contract without a subsidized phone and the possibility to add a "data plan" later on when you need it. If you will use the phone for regular data connections, ask for the possibility to get a "flat" data plan later on. Not all of the offered voice plans allow the addition of a data plan, so take care when you choose one of them. It should be possible to get a short running contract if you renounce the subsidized phones and take a plan which is "non-flat" (means: pay per use). Regards Karsten ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Jonathon Suggs writes: >You can "dial" up, it will be really slow and probably unreliable. I >think 9.6k is as fast as you can go. Not to mention that when you >"dialing in" you will be using your cell phone minutes. A data plan >allows you to use GPRS, which is a newer (still pretty old though) and >faster connection up to 56k. The down side is that you will probably >have to sign a contract. You will then either get an unlimited plan >(~$20-40/month) or a pay as you go plan (~.15/kb). > >Let me know if you want more details. And anyone else feel free to >correct any mis-information. I'd like as many details as I can get, please. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
My son bought a Cingular pay as you go SIM card, and used it in a phone he already had, then bought another phone outright and put the same card in it. In the past I bought a phone on eBay and separately bought a SIM card with a contract. In general there are some *phones* that are locked to a carrier, but an unlocked phone will work with any SIM card. The carriers want to take your money and give you dialtone, they don't really care what phone you use to to that, although they like to sell you a phone to lock you in if they can. Adrian On 3/9/07, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: OK totally excellent info Erik thanks. (You MIT alums beat us CMU alums sometimes I guess.) The openmoko people definately need to address this stuff. A couple questions inline, Erik wrote: > I agree that this should be in a FAQ somewhere, because it's something > lots of US free-your-phone users need to know. It isn't OpenMoko > specific, but definitely relevant. I already wasted ^H^H^H^H^H^Hspent > some time looking in to this so I'll share what I've found: > > 1. I believe Cingular prepaid can do GPRS data. This would normally >be excellent news. Except that its $0.01 per kbyte. [!!!] If you >get the max bitrate that works out to something like $4 per minute! >So "spending minutes" to use data would be a bargain. > > 2. But I'm not holding my breath that I will be able to just spend >voice minutes getting infrequent data access from a prepaid plan. >A cellular telephone voice connection is extremly highly compressed >in ways that sound ok for speach, but ways that mean very little >data would get through if you tried to use standard modem codings. >Plus, the little cpu in the thing couldn't really be expected to do >the decoding. Perhaps someone could do a great hack with a >self-powered modem on the headphone port, looping back into the >unit via a bluetooth-to-serial dongle. > > 3. Data plan it is. You can't add a data plan to a prepaid card. So >either you have a prepaid voice card + data plan card, or you suck >it up and sign up for a voice plan as well. Is there really such a thing as a "data plan card" ? I can't find that on the gophone section of the cingular site. It only lists: $15 30 days $25 90 days $50 90 days $75 90 days $100365 days > > 4. Cingular differentiates plans based on what kind of phone/interface >device you have, and how you intend to use it. The cheapest is >smartphone, the next is pda, the next is laptop. And to use one of >their locked smartphones or pdas as a bluetooth modem you have to >pay an expensive extra $$ per month "tether" fee. My guess is that >all data plans work in all unlocked devices... but maybe I'm wrong >and theres a whitelist on the simcard. > > 5. It seems to be a grey area, using a phone that they don't provide. >I can see a good argument for calling the OpenMoko a SmartPhone. >Which is great 'cause theres a $20/month unlimited data plan for >smartphones. But there's no way to limit whether you can use it >for tethered/laptop data access so who knows if they'd want to slap >the tether fee on you. "just in case" fortunately I don't think >they're that clue-full. I have a feeling that both tmobile and cingular are going to do whatever they can to prohibit the openmoko phones. And I'm thinking the cheaper "smartphone" data plans will only work on cingular's devices, right? Like the device has to do something in order to be able to make use of it- some technical limitation? Otherwise I don't know why cingular sells two different plans, the "smartphone 5mb" is $9.99 and the "Data Connect 5MB" is $19.99. I don't get how else they'd be different. Would the neo be compatible with both? Who knows? I hope someone from the openmoko project reads this thread. > > 6. It seems that you can only order a plan [get a sim card] with a >phone. That's not such a financial problem if you're just getting >a cheap voice plan, because there are lots of cheap/free after >rebate voice phones you can get and not use. But to order a data >plan from Cingular [of any of the tweleve types] you have to order >a phone that is valid for that plan. OK, you're saying no matter what plan I sign up for with cingular, even prepaid, I have to buy a phone from them too, right? I can't like, go on ebay and buy a cheap used phone and still sign up with cingular, even prepaid? The one useful piece of info I may have then, is to tell you about the service I have now. I have ecallplus.com, which resells cingular. They have a few GSM plans, and you can bring your own phone... So if your sprint phone breaks you may have a cheaper path to GSM through them for your holdover. > > 7. So to get a SmartPhone unlimited plan [$20/month... unlimited data >not bad imho] you'd have to also buy a smartphone. [$150] There's >a $100 rebate on the ch
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
OK totally excellent info Erik thanks. (You MIT alums beat us CMU alums sometimes I guess.) The openmoko people definately need to address this stuff. A couple questions inline, Erik wrote: I agree that this should be in a FAQ somewhere, because it's something lots of US free-your-phone users need to know. It isn't OpenMoko specific, but definitely relevant. I already wasted ^H^H^H^H^H^Hspent some time looking in to this so I'll share what I've found: 1. I believe Cingular prepaid can do GPRS data. This would normally be excellent news. Except that its $0.01 per kbyte. [!!!] If you get the max bitrate that works out to something like $4 per minute! So "spending minutes" to use data would be a bargain. 2. But I'm not holding my breath that I will be able to just spend voice minutes getting infrequent data access from a prepaid plan. A cellular telephone voice connection is extremly highly compressed in ways that sound ok for speach, but ways that mean very little data would get through if you tried to use standard modem codings. Plus, the little cpu in the thing couldn't really be expected to do the decoding. Perhaps someone could do a great hack with a self-powered modem on the headphone port, looping back into the unit via a bluetooth-to-serial dongle. 3. Data plan it is. You can't add a data plan to a prepaid card. So either you have a prepaid voice card + data plan card, or you suck it up and sign up for a voice plan as well. Is there really such a thing as a "data plan card" ? I can't find that on the gophone section of the cingular site. It only lists: $15 30 days $25 90 days $50 90 days $75 90 days $100365 days 4. Cingular differentiates plans based on what kind of phone/interface device you have, and how you intend to use it. The cheapest is smartphone, the next is pda, the next is laptop. And to use one of their locked smartphones or pdas as a bluetooth modem you have to pay an expensive extra $$ per month "tether" fee. My guess is that all data plans work in all unlocked devices... but maybe I'm wrong and theres a whitelist on the simcard. 5. It seems to be a grey area, using a phone that they don't provide. I can see a good argument for calling the OpenMoko a SmartPhone. Which is great 'cause theres a $20/month unlimited data plan for smartphones. But there's no way to limit whether you can use it for tethered/laptop data access so who knows if they'd want to slap the tether fee on you. "just in case" fortunately I don't think they're that clue-full. I have a feeling that both tmobile and cingular are going to do whatever they can to prohibit the openmoko phones. And I'm thinking the cheaper "smartphone" data plans will only work on cingular's devices, right? Like the device has to do something in order to be able to make use of it- some technical limitation? Otherwise I don't know why cingular sells two different plans, the "smartphone 5mb" is $9.99 and the "Data Connect 5MB" is $19.99. I don't get how else they'd be different. Would the neo be compatible with both? Who knows? I hope someone from the openmoko project reads this thread. 6. It seems that you can only order a plan [get a sim card] with a phone. That's not such a financial problem if you're just getting a cheap voice plan, because there are lots of cheap/free after rebate voice phones you can get and not use. But to order a data plan from Cingular [of any of the tweleve types] you have to order a phone that is valid for that plan. OK, you're saying no matter what plan I sign up for with cingular, even prepaid, I have to buy a phone from them too, right? I can't like, go on ebay and buy a cheap used phone and still sign up with cingular, even prepaid? The one useful piece of info I may have then, is to tell you about the service I have now. I have ecallplus.com, which resells cingular. They have a few GSM plans, and you can bring your own phone... So if your sprint phone breaks you may have a cheaper path to GSM through them for your holdover. 7. So to get a SmartPhone unlimited plan [$20/month... unlimited data not bad imho] you'd have to also buy a smartphone. [$150] There's a $100 rebate on the cheapest phone, but who knows if you'd actually get the rebate. And who knows if it'd actually work in the neo. 8. I'm not even sure that you can have a data plan without a voice plan. Seems like at the very least you might not get the smartphone rebate if you don't get the rebate. Good luck, please share what else you find! You are indeed not the only one trying to figure all this out! -erik ps. A reasonable default, if you need a phone right now, is to buy a cheap prepaid phone and use that for the couple months until it becomes more clear exactly what plans work with the neo in the US. That way you're not locked in... and you
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
I've had Cingular unlimited for a year or two on a Treo 650. The basic plan (national roaming, and a bunch of minutes with rollover) is about $40/month, then the unlimited data plan adds $35, and with a few text messages (which are extra charge) added on top my monthly bill is about $80. I got a big discount on the Treo650 for a two year commit to this. The SIM card does work in other phones, I have used it in a Treo600, Nokia 6682 and have no doubt that it will work in an OpenMoko or homebrew phone. I use the internet a lot from the Treo, it's EDGE speeds, good enough for keeping up with a lot of email, google maps and basic browsing, although its slow. Coverage in the SF Bay Area is good enough and has been gradually getting better over the years. I had T-Mobile for a while, and had worse coverage but much better customer support. I hope this helps, Adrian On 3/9/07, Erik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I agree that this should be in a FAQ somewhere, because it's something lots of US free-your-phone users need to know. It isn't OpenMoko specific, but definitely relevant. I already wasted ^H^H^H^H^H^Hspent some time looking in to this so I'll share what I've found: 1. I believe Cingular prepaid can do GPRS data. This would normally be excellent news. Except that its $0.01 per kbyte. [!!!] If you get the max bitrate that works out to something like $4 per minute! So "spending minutes" to use data would be a bargain. 2. But I'm not holding my breath that I will be able to just spend voice minutes getting infrequent data access from a prepaid plan. A cellular telephone voice connection is extremly highly compressed in ways that sound ok for speach, but ways that mean very little data would get through if you tried to use standard modem codings. Plus, the little cpu in the thing couldn't really be expected to do the decoding. Perhaps someone could do a great hack with a self-powered modem on the headphone port, looping back into the unit via a bluetooth-to-serial dongle. 3. Data plan it is. You can't add a data plan to a prepaid card. So either you have a prepaid voice card + data plan card, or you suck it up and sign up for a voice plan as well. 4. Cingular differentiates plans based on what kind of phone/interface device you have, and how you intend to use it. The cheapest is smartphone, the next is pda, the next is laptop. And to use one of their locked smartphones or pdas as a bluetooth modem you have to pay an expensive extra $$ per month "tether" fee. My guess is that all data plans work in all unlocked devices... but maybe I'm wrong and theres a whitelist on the simcard. 5. It seems to be a grey area, using a phone that they don't provide. I can see a good argument for calling the OpenMoko a SmartPhone. Which is great 'cause theres a $20/month unlimited data plan for smartphones. But there's no way to limit whether you can use it for tethered/laptop data access so who knows if they'd want to slap the tether fee on you. "just in case" fortunately I don't think they're that clue-full. 6. It seems that you can only order a plan [get a sim card] with a phone. That's not such a financial problem if you're just getting a cheap voice plan, because there are lots of cheap/free after rebate voice phones you can get and not use. But to order a data plan from Cingular [of any of the tweleve types] you have to order a phone that is valid for that plan. 7. So to get a SmartPhone unlimited plan [$20/month... unlimited data not bad imho] you'd have to also buy a smartphone. [$150] There's a $100 rebate on the cheapest phone, but who knows if you'd actually get the rebate. And who knows if it'd actually work in the neo. 8. I'm not even sure that you can have a data plan without a voice plan. Seems like at the very least you might not get the smartphone rebate if you don't get the rebate. Good luck, please share what else you find! You are indeed not the only one trying to figure all this out! -erik ps. A reasonable default, if you need a phone right now, is to buy a cheap prepaid phone and use that for the couple months until it becomes more clear exactly what plans work with the neo in the US. That way you're not locked in... and you have a sim that you can use for voice testing at the very least with the neo. That's what I'm going to do when/if my 4year old phone [on sprint month-to-month/no contract all its life] croaks before i get a phase 1! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
I agree that this should be in a FAQ somewhere, because it's something lots of US free-your-phone users need to know. It isn't OpenMoko specific, but definitely relevant. I already wasted ^H^H^H^H^H^Hspent some time looking in to this so I'll share what I've found: 1. I believe Cingular prepaid can do GPRS data. This would normally be excellent news. Except that its $0.01 per kbyte. [!!!] If you get the max bitrate that works out to something like $4 per minute! So "spending minutes" to use data would be a bargain. 2. But I'm not holding my breath that I will be able to just spend voice minutes getting infrequent data access from a prepaid plan. A cellular telephone voice connection is extremly highly compressed in ways that sound ok for speach, but ways that mean very little data would get through if you tried to use standard modem codings. Plus, the little cpu in the thing couldn't really be expected to do the decoding. Perhaps someone could do a great hack with a self-powered modem on the headphone port, looping back into the unit via a bluetooth-to-serial dongle. 3. Data plan it is. You can't add a data plan to a prepaid card. So either you have a prepaid voice card + data plan card, or you suck it up and sign up for a voice plan as well. 4. Cingular differentiates plans based on what kind of phone/interface device you have, and how you intend to use it. The cheapest is smartphone, the next is pda, the next is laptop. And to use one of their locked smartphones or pdas as a bluetooth modem you have to pay an expensive extra $$ per month "tether" fee. My guess is that all data plans work in all unlocked devices... but maybe I'm wrong and theres a whitelist on the simcard. 5. It seems to be a grey area, using a phone that they don't provide. I can see a good argument for calling the OpenMoko a SmartPhone. Which is great 'cause theres a $20/month unlimited data plan for smartphones. But there's no way to limit whether you can use it for tethered/laptop data access so who knows if they'd want to slap the tether fee on you. "just in case" fortunately I don't think they're that clue-full. 6. It seems that you can only order a plan [get a sim card] with a phone. That's not such a financial problem if you're just getting a cheap voice plan, because there are lots of cheap/free after rebate voice phones you can get and not use. But to order a data plan from Cingular [of any of the tweleve types] you have to order a phone that is valid for that plan. 7. So to get a SmartPhone unlimited plan [$20/month... unlimited data not bad imho] you'd have to also buy a smartphone. [$150] There's a $100 rebate on the cheapest phone, but who knows if you'd actually get the rebate. And who knows if it'd actually work in the neo. 8. I'm not even sure that you can have a data plan without a voice plan. Seems like at the very least you might not get the smartphone rebate if you don't get the rebate. Good luck, please share what else you find! You are indeed not the only one trying to figure all this out! -erik ps. A reasonable default, if you need a phone right now, is to buy a cheap prepaid phone and use that for the couple months until it becomes more clear exactly what plans work with the neo in the US. That way you're not locked in... and you have a sim that you can use for voice testing at the very least with the neo. That's what I'm going to do when/if my 4year old phone [on sprint month-to-month/no contract all its life] croaks before i get a phase 1! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
mathew davis wrote: Sorry those links are don't work. Also I don't know the answer to those questions you should visit a cingular/t-mobile store for those questions they don't have anything to do with openmoko so I can't help you I am sorry. They should be able to tell you which plan let you surf the internet and which plans allow you to just text and which plan just let's you download songs off their sight. I wish I could help out more here but you will have to ask someone who works at cingular/tmobile. Thanks but a cingular/t-mobile store is not going to tell me which of their 15 data plans will work with a neo phone. Maybe one of the openmoko people will come around and notice this thread. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Mike wrote: Jonathon Suggs wrote: You can "dial" up, it will be really slow and probably unreliable. I think 9.6k is as fast as you can go. Not to mention that when you "dialing in" you will be using your cell phone minutes. A data plan allows you to use GPRS, which is a newer (still pretty old though) and faster connection up to 56k. The down side is that you will probably have to sign a contract. You will then either get an unlimited plan (~$20-40/month) or a pay as you go plan (~.15/kb). Let me know if you want more details. And anyone else feel free to correct any mis-information. Do you think this would work? http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-plans/pyg-cell-phone-plans.jsp I get confused about what counts as a "data plan". It looks like they're putting text messaging under the term "data plan". But it sounds like what you're saying is I'd need to do one of their "Data Connect" thing, right? damn... http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/services/services-list.jsp?catId=cat1510007&catName=Data+Add-Ons Can I do "SmartPhone Connect (5MB)" instead of "Data Connect"? It's cheaper... See what I mean about this information needing to be somewhere on the openmoko site. The phone is great but we can't develop for it if we don't know what service plan to get for it. The sad thing is years ago I used to write WML apps. now I'm clueless. thanks, m Damn apparently my links don't work because of the jsp session. (Bad web application design on their part). Here are all their data plans: Data Add-Ons PDA Connect Unlimited With PDA Connect you can browse the Internet and access e-mail from your PDA device. And now, Xpress Mail is included with PDA Connect Unlimited at no extra charge. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $39.99 Data Connect 10MB With Data Connect you can browse the Internet and access e-mail from your PDA device. And now, Xpress Mail is included with Data Connect Unlimited at no extra charge. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $24.99 Data Connect 5MB With Data Connect you can browse the Internet and access e-mail from your PDA device. And now, Xpress Mail is included with Data Connect Unlimited at no extra charge. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $19.99 Data Connect 20MB With Data Connect you can browse the Internet and access e-mail from your PDA device. And now, Xpress Mail is included with Data Connect Unlimited at no extra charge. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $34.99 SmartPhone Connect Unlimited w/Xpress Mail With SmartPhone Connect, you can browse the internet from your wireless Smartphone handset. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $19.99 SmartPhone Connect (5MB) With SmartPhone Connect, you can browse the internet from your wireless Smartphone handset. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $9.99 Blackberry Unlimited Retrieve e-mail from up to 10 ISP accounts or your corporate e-mail with a BlackBerry Wireless Handheld. Send, receive, forward, and reply to messages while on the go! View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $44.99 BlackBerry Internet Service Plan Retrieve e-mail from up to 10 ISP accounts with a BlackBerry Wireless Handheld. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $29.99 Blackberry 4MB Retrieve e-mail from up to 10 ISP accounts or your corporate e-mail with a BlackBerry Wireless Handheld. Send, receive, forward, and reply to messages while on the go! View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $34.99 PDA Connect for BlackBerry Connect 4MB With PDA Connect for BlackBerry Connect, email messages are automatically delivered to your device. You can easily send, receive and reply to emails and calendaring at your convenience. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $34.99 PDA Connect for BlackBerry Connect Unlimited With PDA Connect for BlackBerry Connect, email messages are automatically delivered to your device. You can easily send, receive and reply to emails and calendaring at your convenience. View Details You need a compatible plan and phone to get this service. See compatible: Phones and Plans *Monthly Price $44.99 And so you see why I'm hav
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Sorry those links are don't work. Also I don't know the answer to those questions you should visit a cingular/t-mobile store for those questions they don't have anything to do with openmoko so I can't help you I am sorry. They should be able to tell you which plan let you surf the internet and which plans allow you to just text and which plan just let's you download songs off their sight. I wish I could help out more here but you will have to ask someone who works at cingular/tmobile. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Jonathon Suggs wrote: Mike wrote: mathew davis wrote: you also don't _need_ to sign up for a data plan, but I would bet if your getting this for the neo1973 you will have more features like google maps, internet browsing, and many other features that would require a data plan. Thanks by why don't I need to sign up for a data plan? Can I get on the web/internet without a data plan? Can I "dial" up like I asked in my last email? And if I can, then couldn't I just get google maps by opening up a web browser on my neo and going to maps.google.com, what's the advantage of a data plan? What services are you looking for? You should check the wiki I think it As in what cell phone service plans- tmobile, cingular, contracts, sim cards, data plans, prepaid. what plans will it work with. This seems like an obvious set of common questions. The only thing I found on the wiki was "A: Wikipedia has a list of providers and technologies here. A brief look gives the impression that T-Mobile and Cingular (which is renaming itself AT&T) seem to be the only major ones." That's not enough. thanks m You can "dial" up, it will be really slow and probably unreliable. I think 9.6k is as fast as you can go. Not to mention that when you "dialing in" you will be using your cell phone minutes. A data plan allows you to use GPRS, which is a newer (still pretty old though) and faster connection up to 56k. The down side is that you will probably have to sign a contract. You will then either get an unlimited plan (~$20-40/month) or a pay as you go plan (~.15/kb). Let me know if you want more details. And anyone else feel free to correct any mis-information. Do you think this would work? http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-plans/pyg-cell-phone-plans.jsp I get confused about what counts as a "data plan". It looks like they're putting text messaging under the term "data plan". But it sounds like what you're saying is I'd need to do one of their "Data Connect" thing, right? damn... http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/services/services-list.jsp?catId=cat1510007&catName=Data+Add-Ons Can I do "SmartPhone Connect (5MB)" instead of "Data Connect"? It's cheaper... See what I mean about this information needing to be somewhere on the openmoko site. The phone is great but we can't develop for it if we don't know what service plan to get for it. The sad thing is years ago I used to write WML apps. now I'm clueless. thanks, m ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
On 3/9/07, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks by why don't I need to sign up for a data plan? Can I get on the web/internet without a data plan? Can I "dial" up like I asked in my last email? And if I can, then couldn't I just get google maps by opening up a web browser on my neo and going to maps.google.com, what's the advantage of a data plan? AFAIK you need a data plan if you want to surf the web. There might be alternatives to getting internet acces to your neo but I don't know of them. And maybe someone could correct me on this point, but I think you can use your phone as a dialup device but that would give you internet to the computer which is using your phone as a modem. I guess you could use the bluetooth as a network adapter but I don't know if that will give you internet access if your network has it. As in what cell phone service plans- tmobile, cingular, contracts, sim cards, data plans, prepaid. what plans will it work with. This seems like an obvious set of common questions. The only thing I found on the wiki was "A: Wikipedia has a list of providers and technologies here. A brief look gives the impression that T-Mobile and Cingular (which is renaming itself AT&T) seem to be the only major ones." That's not enough. What ever services you can put on your sim card should work, example, unlimited text, any minute plan, any data rate plan, and any prepaid service you can get through t-mobile and/or cingular. So what ever services your provider offers, which you can find on their websites, should work on the neo1973. Now if I am wrong someone correct me please. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Mike wrote: mathew davis wrote: you also don't _need_ to sign up for a data plan, but I would bet if your getting this for the neo1973 you will have more features like google maps, internet browsing, and many other features that would require a data plan. Thanks by why don't I need to sign up for a data plan? Can I get on the web/internet without a data plan? Can I "dial" up like I asked in my last email? And if I can, then couldn't I just get google maps by opening up a web browser on my neo and going to maps.google.com, what's the advantage of a data plan? What services are you looking for? You should check the wiki I think it As in what cell phone service plans- tmobile, cingular, contracts, sim cards, data plans, prepaid. what plans will it work with. This seems like an obvious set of common questions. The only thing I found on the wiki was "A: Wikipedia has a list of providers and technologies here. A brief look gives the impression that T-Mobile and Cingular (which is renaming itself AT&T) seem to be the only major ones." That's not enough. thanks m You can "dial" up, it will be really slow and probably unreliable. I think 9.6k is as fast as you can go. Not to mention that when you "dialing in" you will be using your cell phone minutes. A data plan allows you to use GPRS, which is a newer (still pretty old though) and faster connection up to 56k. The down side is that you will probably have to sign a contract. You will then either get an unlimited plan (~$20-40/month) or a pay as you go plan (~.15/kb). Let me know if you want more details. And anyone else feel free to correct any mis-information. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
mathew davis wrote: you also don't _need_ to sign up for a data plan, but I would bet if your getting this for the neo1973 you will have more features like google maps, internet browsing, and many other features that would require a data plan. Thanks by why don't I need to sign up for a data plan? Can I get on the web/internet without a data plan? Can I "dial" up like I asked in my last email? And if I can, then couldn't I just get google maps by opening up a web browser on my neo and going to maps.google.com, what's the advantage of a data plan? What services are you looking for? You should check the wiki I think it As in what cell phone service plans- tmobile, cingular, contracts, sim cards, data plans, prepaid. what plans will it work with. This seems like an obvious set of common questions. The only thing I found on the wiki was "A: Wikipedia has a list of providers and technologies here. A brief look gives the impression that T-Mobile and Cingular (which is renaming itself AT&T) seem to be the only major ones." That's not enough. thanks m ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Mike, As to the contract you don't need a 2 year contract to get a sim card. In fact as far as I know even a pre-paid plan, in which you pre pay for minutes, will get you a sim card. you also don't _need_ to sign up for a data plan, but I would bet if your getting this for the neo1973 you will have more features like google maps, internet browsing, and many other features that would require a data plan. At least that has been my experiance here in the USA. As far as ecallplus I have no idea I have never looked at them before I bet you could find the answers you are looking for on their site. I also think the openmoko.com site should have information on services somewhere. It's such a fundamental question- "what services can I use openmoko with?" What services are you looking for? You should check the wiki I think it covers just about everything you could ever dream of relating to the open neo1973. If it's not on the wiki and it's not been part of the e-mail's then chances are it doesn't have it. If you are talking about which provider has the neo1973 none do yet it's only in phase 0. If you want to pick up the neo1973 you will have to wait until september. Unless you want to sign up for the developer version which will be comming out soon. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
What moblie service to get, part 2
I'm in New York City. I need to switch plans this month because my uber-cheap prepaid service (ecallplus.com) is ending this month on the 30th (It's TDMA!!). I've been reading (and asking) here before about this, here's what I still don't get- I know I need to do either Cingular or Tmobile. I'm going to do Cingular. Two questions and a suggestion: 1. Do I need to do a service with a two year contract in order to get a SIM card?I've read mixed answers on other threads here. 2. Do I need a service with internet access? Some (one) of you were talking about using a service to "dial up". Can the neo dial up an internet service the way a desktop modem can? If so could I do a prepaid plan like this: http://ecallplus.com/cellular/callplus-gsm.html (or would I not get a sim card if it's pre-paid or what?) http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003858.html I also think the openmoko.com site should have information on services somewhere. It's such a fundamental question- "what services can I use openmoko with?" ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
