Re: Writing my own Free Plain Phone sw distro for GTA02
MS, On 2011-09-20 12:27, msoko...@ivan.harhan.org wrote: Hello again, Thanks to everyone who has responded to my introductory post with helpful tips and suggestions! Radek Polak wrote: As for good power management - it's given by HW design and linux kernel. You can't affect very much from userspace. But doesn't the userspace need to tell the kernel when some things should be powered up or down? Things like the LCD, the backlight, the audio codec... You can get 4-5 days on one battery charge, if the phone is in suspend (PMU+RAM+modem is on, rest if off). That's very good to hear! I was a little afraid of the FreeRunner being a charge 2-3 times a day type of deal: that's what some sources were suggesting. Glad to hear that the original Om developers did a good job building the HW such that it *can* provide "normal phone" battery life, assuming that of course the software does its part properly as well and does not needlessly waste power. Btw why X11 for such project? Wouldnt be framebuffer enough? I've been thinking about going the X11 route for two reasons: * My personal programming comfort zone: I've written X11 apps using just libX11, and I'm comfortable with it. If I want to put a piece of text on the screen, I can just ask X11 to do it for me, exactly the same way as how I do it on the 1980s UNIX workstations which stay back in my office while I roam around with my FR. :-) If I went the directfb route, I would have to learn how to use some text/font rendering library outside of X11. Yes, my project is all about learning, but I'm interested in more focused learning: I want to learn how to make my phone place and answer voice calls, not how to use whatever is the "modern Linux" world's preferred text/font rendering library du jour. * X11's client/server architecture is generally viewed as a nuisance in the embedded world, but it might actually help me split my UI code into more manageable pieces. I tentatively plan on having a main UI daemon, but some pieces could be split off into separate programs. For example, upon getting an incoming call (MT = Mobile Terminated in GSM-speak), I could make my gsmd fork/exec off an mtcall process; the mtcall binary would then connect to the X11 server and display a window showing the number and/or contact name of whoever is calling. All of the above are just my tentative thoughts, I may well end up choosing a different approach when I actually get into it. I have a strong dislike for abstract-ware, so I need to hold the hardware in my hand before my brain can really kick into gear and decide how I should write the software for it. I am still waiting for my GTA02 to arrive, and until I get it I am limited to fairly idle speculation. :-( Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli wrote: feature phone is also non-derogatory and means exacty the same thing I don't think it means the same thing though: as I understand it, people generally use the term "feature" in "feature phone" to refer to non-basic-telephony features: camera, mobile web browser, integration with AIM/Yahoo/Facebook/whatever, all that stuff I hate with a passion. A phone that does voice calls, SMS, and absolutely positively nothing else would not be a "feature phone" to most people, it would be a featureless phone. That is what I am after, and that is what I call a Plain Phone. Actually, I need to clarify a little: I'm not against the non-telephony features per se, I just consider them much less important. I can see how *some* non-telephony features, such as GPS+openstreetmaps for navigation in a car when I get lost, would be a useful thing to have on the phone even for me. *After* I put together my "featureless" Free Plain Phone distro, I may well become interested in making an extended version of it with some non-telephony features added. But not before: I want a really good Plain Phone first. Part of it is just natural resistance: if someone were to constantly keep forcing some particular type of food down your throat, you'd naturally develop a hatred for it pretty quickly, even if it's something you would find tasty under different circumstances. That's how it is for me with "smart" and "features" phones. For many years now I have become disgusted with the kind of phones that are made, sold and bought by the mainstream society nowadays. And it isn't even the phones themselves, it's where the makers, promoters and ultimately buyers/users of these phones put their emphasis. Over the past many years now, every time I've been compelled into shopping for a new phone (be it a change of carrier, or old phone broke, or whatever), I've been bombarded by disgust: the phone salespeople keep focusing their sales pitches on non-telephony features. It seems to me that the phone industry and its user community have become so obsessed with their phones doing everything but basic telephony functions, that
Re: Writing my own Free Plain Phone sw distro for GTA02
Hello again, Thanks to everyone who has responded to my introductory post with helpful tips and suggestions! Radek Polak wrote: > As for good power management - it's given by HW design and linux kernel. > You can't affect very much from userspace. But doesn't the userspace need to tell the kernel when some things should be powered up or down? Things like the LCD, the backlight, the audio codec... > You can get 4-5 days on one battery charge, > if the phone is in suspend (PMU+RAM+modem is on, rest if off). That's very good to hear! I was a little afraid of the FreeRunner being a charge 2-3 times a day type of deal: that's what some sources were suggesting. Glad to hear that the original Om developers did a good job building the HW such that it *can* provide "normal phone" battery life, assuming that of course the software does its part properly as well and does not needlessly waste power. > Btw why X11 for such project? Wouldnt be framebuffer enough? I've been thinking about going the X11 route for two reasons: * My personal programming comfort zone: I've written X11 apps using just libX11, and I'm comfortable with it. If I want to put a piece of text on the screen, I can just ask X11 to do it for me, exactly the same way as how I do it on the 1980s UNIX workstations which stay back in my office while I roam around with my FR. :-) If I went the directfb route, I would have to learn how to use some text/font rendering library outside of X11. Yes, my project is all about learning, but I'm interested in more focused learning: I want to learn how to make my phone place and answer voice calls, not how to use whatever is the "modern Linux" world's preferred text/font rendering library du jour. * X11's client/server architecture is generally viewed as a nuisance in the embedded world, but it might actually help me split my UI code into more manageable pieces. I tentatively plan on having a main UI daemon, but some pieces could be split off into separate programs. For example, upon getting an incoming call (MT = Mobile Terminated in GSM-speak), I could make my gsmd fork/exec off an mtcall process; the mtcall binary would then connect to the X11 server and display a window showing the number and/or contact name of whoever is calling. All of the above are just my tentative thoughts, I may well end up choosing a different approach when I actually get into it. I have a strong dislike for abstract-ware, so I need to hold the hardware in my hand before my brain can really kick into gear and decide how I should write the software for it. I am still waiting for my GTA02 to arrive, and until I get it I am limited to fairly idle speculation. :-( Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli wrote: > feature phone is also non-derogatory and means exacty the same thing I don't think it means the same thing though: as I understand it, people generally use the term "feature" in "feature phone" to refer to non-basic-telephony features: camera, mobile web browser, integration with AIM/Yahoo/Facebook/whatever, all that stuff I hate with a passion. A phone that does voice calls, SMS, and absolutely positively nothing else would not be a "feature phone" to most people, it would be a featureless phone. That is what I am after, and that is what I call a Plain Phone. Actually, I need to clarify a little: I'm not against the non-telephony features per se, I just consider them much less important. I can see how *some* non-telephony features, such as GPS+openstreetmaps for navigation in a car when I get lost, would be a useful thing to have on the phone even for me. *After* I put together my "featureless" Free Plain Phone distro, I may well become interested in making an extended version of it with some non-telephony features added. But not before: I want a really good Plain Phone first. Part of it is just natural resistance: if someone were to constantly keep forcing some particular type of food down your throat, you'd naturally develop a hatred for it pretty quickly, even if it's something you would find tasty under different circumstances. That's how it is for me with "smart" and "features" phones. For many years now I have become disgusted with the kind of phones that are made, sold and bought by the mainstream society nowadays. And it isn't even the phones themselves, it's where the makers, promoters and ultimately buyers/users of these phones put their emphasis. Over the past many years now, every time I've been compelled into shopping for a new phone (be it a change of carrier, or old phone broke, or whatever), I've been bombarded by disgust: the phone salespeople keep focusing their sales pitches on non-telephony features. It seems to me that the phone industry and its user community have become so obsessed with their phones doing everything but basic telephony functions, that perhaps if someone came out with a new cool smartphone that browses the web, goes to Facebook, does GPS, displa
Re: Writing my own Free Plain Phone sw distro for GTA02
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 22:04:45 GMT, msoko...@ivan.harhan.org wrote: weeks (intercontinental shipping and all). But the real purpose of this introductory post of mine is to announce what I plan to do with it: my desire is to write my own from-scratch Free Plain Phone software distro for it. That's an interesting post and new project, and I think I understand your motivation. On the GSM front, however, you may want to consider the DeforaOS code at http://www.defora.org/os/project/browse/3343?file=/src. It was also written from scratch, in C, and to be minimal (compared to something like FSO or oFono), and I think it may be small enough for you to feel happy studying it instead of reimplementing it yourself. Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Writing my own Free Plain Phone sw distro for GTA02
> In order words, the phone functionality I am after is what people would > call a "dumb" phone, or I prefer to call it a Plain Phone to use a more > neutral / non-derogatory term. feature phone is also non-derogatory and means exacty the same thing > Learning motivation: that's the biggest one for me. I am a knowledge > freak. I want to know, know, know. check out the wiki, there is explanation on how the hardware works there... > > I realize that I will unfortunately have to treat the Calypso GSM block > as a black box. If I had a spare million dollars laying around, I could > probably find an ex-Openmoko-Inc employee whom I could bribe for an > illegal copy of the 3 missing schematic sheets and of whatever mix of > partial source and linkable binary/object modules I'm guessing they must > have had for the Calypso firmware: still not stellar, but better than > what the community currently possesses, which is a block diagram on > schematic page 14 and a fully-built FW image. But I don't have a spare > $1M laying around, so that is probably not an option. :-( learn about osmcombb, however it's not a drop-in replacement as it lacks: *an AT command interpreter part(however they have an abandoned nuttx port) *any kind of certification needed for connecting to carrier networks > But even with the GSM modem being a black box sequestered behind a serial > port, still that's not so bad, the GSM modem doesn't control the CODEC(the "sound card") nor the GPS. > As a more concrete example, I don't want my UI to use either GTK or Qt, > and in fact I don't want any pre-existing UI code period: I want to > design and implement my own UI 100% myself. My UI design will be rather > monolithic, centering around Plain Phone functionality: making and > receiving plain old voice calls on the GSM network, receiving, replying > to and composing SMS, managing contacts, and that's about it. (*No* > "apps" or the like.) I will implement my Plain Phone UI in plain C > using just libX11, no GTK or Qt, because that's my programming comfort > zone. too bad because there was already a feature-phone distro called aurora, but its GUI is in QT(using the framebuffer), but yet very basic. > I also don't like dbus: too modern for my taste. Hence I will need to > implement my own version of gsmd that doesn't depend on dbus or any > other infrastructural backbone of a "modern" Linux distro. too bad that rules out freesmartphone, which is a great hardware abstraction layer. if you would use freesmartphone you could have written the GUI quickely enough to make it a reality. > 1. Learn the process for loading new code images into the phone, build a >very basic rootfs image (using the techniques and principles from my >HEClinux-am3517 project) that does nothing other than allow an ssh >root login over the USB port, load it, get it to boot (debug board >with serial console bring-out for the win!) and get the USB login >to work. Try doing it with the battery removed (USB power only) if >possible. just read the wiki for that. > 2. Write the first inklings of the battery charger daemon: minimal power >management code to enable battery charging and control the USB >current draw limiter. Charge the battery and see it boot w/o USB >power. battery charging is done in the kernel. > 3. Write the first minimal gsmd. Have it save incoming SMS in an >"airlog" file with no UI. Try placing an outbound call or sending >an SMS from the command line (from the shell accessed via USB port >login session). > 4. Write the bottom layer of my own UI, roughly taking the place of the >X11 window manager. Have the userland display *something* on the LCD. why not using framebuffer directly? Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Writing my own Free Plain Phone sw distro for GTA02
On Ne 18. září 2011 00:04:45 msoko...@ivan.harhan.org wrote: > Hello Openmoko community, > > I have just ordered my GTA02 hardware unit from Golden Delicious a few > days ago, and I greatly look forward to receiving it in the next few > weeks (intercontinental shipping and all). But the real purpose of this > introductory post of mine is to announce what I plan to do with it: my > desire is to write my own from-scratch Free Plain Phone software distro > for it. (More specifically, take the existing & working U-Boot and the > Linux kernel with no or just minor changes, but bring up my own userland > from the ground up.) Before anyone tells me that I'm crazy or why in > the world do I wish to do that, let me list my primary motivations: Hi, you have chosen openmoko very well for your project. Just a few notes that might be interesting for you: As for good power management - it's given by HW design and linux kernel. You can't affect very much from userspace. You can get 4-5 days on one battery charge, if the phone is in suspend (PMU+RAM+modem is on, rest if off). Take a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenWRT - they have also very minimal userspace (just few megabytes) and nice kernel-like build system. Btw why X11 for such project? Wouldnt be framebuffer enough? Anyway good luck with your project, let us know if you have something working. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Writing my own Free Plain Phone sw distro for GTA02
Hello Openmoko community, I have just ordered my GTA02 hardware unit from Golden Delicious a few days ago, and I greatly look forward to receiving it in the next few weeks (intercontinental shipping and all). But the real purpose of this introductory post of mine is to announce what I plan to do with it: my desire is to write my own from-scratch Free Plain Phone software distro for it. (More specifically, take the existing & working U-Boot and the Linux kernel with no or just minor changes, but bring up my own userland from the ground up.) Before anyone tells me that I'm crazy or why in the world do I wish to do that, let me list my primary motivations: Motivation 1, which can also be seen as a simplification of the task: I am quite different from most free-your-phone hackers in that from the functionality POV, I have absolutely no interest in a "smart" or "feature" phone. I have no interest in cameras, BT, Wifi, VoIP or heavy-duty PDA functionality; I don't need my phone to display fancy color graphics or play music in stereo. Instead what I want is a phone that I can carry in my pocket with good power management, i.e., use the absolute minimum power required to stay registered with the cell network and be ready to receive incoming calls and SMS while everything else is powered off, I want this phone to ring when someone calls, I want it to beep when someone sends me an SMS, and I want to be able to pull it out of my pocket and wake it up to place an outgoing call or send SMS. In order words, the phone functionality I am after is what people would call a "dumb" phone, or I prefer to call it a Plain Phone to use a more neutral / non-derogatory term. Basically the kind of functionality GSM phones had in the 1990s and early 2000s. (And for me it isn't just the level of functionality: I'd like to make the user experience as close as possible to those ancient phones as well.) With my Free Plain Phone SW distro I would like to take the FreeRunner/GTA02 hardware unit and make it function as a Plain Phone, recreating that rustic user experience and level of functionality. I'll keep the Wifi, BT, GPS and G sensor modules always powered off at the PMIC and basically forget about their existence, and instead focus on power management, talking to the GSM modem block and doing the rustic Plain Phone UI. Seen from this perspective, what most people see as major shortcomings of the FreeRunner's HW capabilities are actually advantages for me. For example, I have absolutely no interest in using my phone as a web browser or doing any other "data as in Internet" activities on my phone. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being able to check my email, look something up on the web or ssh into my server back at home from the side of a road in the middle of nowhere. And I do use a mobile device for those functions - but I use a different mobile device, one with a full-size screen and a full-size keyboard. That mobile device is called a laptop - not a phone. What I'm getting at is that I see absolutely no need for UMTS/3G/4G in a phone: UMTS better belongs in a laptop or a USB stick plugged into one. Thus to me a phone like GTA02 that supports only plain GSM and no UMTS is a welcome simplification rather than a drawback. At this point one may well ask: "If your needs are so basic, why do you want a Linux phone at all? Why not just get a 10 y old phone from Ebay and be happy with it?" Well, I do in fact use such an ancient phone right now: I've used it to confirm that plain non-UMTS GSM1900 coverage is still available with good signal strength in all of the local spots I care about. But here are the reasons why I want to build my own Free Plain Phone functionality on a HW platform like GTA02 rather than use an existing one from 10 y ago: Philosophical motivation: I believe in freedom as a principle, much like Richard Stallman. Being a basic philosophical principle, freedom is essentially orthogonal to technological preferences. In my mind the idea of freeing your phone should not be restricted to just "smart" phones chock-full of fancy features; "dumb" or plain phones deserve to be free too! Learning motivation: that's the biggest one for me. I am a knowledge freak. I want to know, know, know. Like many people nowadays, I carry my phone with me everywhere, the only exceptions being places like showers. It's an electronic device that sits within centimeters of me all the time. As such, the idea of this device being a closed/proprietary black box over which I have no control is very bothersome to me. But if I write my own userland software stack for the GTA02, i.e., implement 100% my own UI, my own version of gsmd talking to the GSM modem, etc, I can aim for the ultimate understanding of my phone. I can use it exactly the way I use my current Mot V66 (a classic/ancient Plain Phone, exact same GSM bands as GTA02), but with an extra twist: every time I press a button on the screen, every time I make
