Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Jun 20, 2022, at 00:04 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
> 
> 
> wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear, and 
> read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe, 
> multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board 
> and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically, objectively, 
> and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we can follow as 
> members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.

I’m not aware of any bribery or criminal conduct.

There is a very fine legal line between making an investment in a company in 
exchange for certain rights or privileges and a bribe. I am not aware of any 
situations in which any such line has been crossed. I have not participated in 
any such situation on either side of that line other than as a normal 
shareholder in publicly traded (and a few private) companies, none of which are 
based in Africa or Afrinic members to the best of my knowledge (though at least 
one operates in Africa).

I understand the topics you wish to pursue, but those topics are asked and 
answered and have nothing to do with me. As such, I’m not engaging in a 
discussion of those topics.

OTOH, I am willing to engage in a discussion of the misdeeds of the board and 
the need for the membership and community of AFRINIC to take back control of 
their RIR and restore accountability and create greater transparency.

> 
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 7:12 AM Owen DeLong  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 19, 2022, at 06:25 , Amin Dayekh > > wrote:
>> 
>> The discussion here is not about the board.
> 
> It is as far as I am concerned.
>  
>  
>> Don't confuse Ethical/unethical conduct, with acts against the law.
> 
> The board has committed both.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has committed only unethical/immoral and not 
> illegal acts.

To be clear, I have committed neither to the best of my knowledge.

> 
>> Offering bribes to influence the outcome of the elections endangers our role 
>> as members, questions the integrity of the nominee by such organization 
>> using bribe and defamation to take control of AfriNic while fighting it on 
>> the other hand,
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has no open litigation against AFRINIC, so 
> I’m not sure what you mean here.
> 
>> How members are getting onboarded to such organization? by giving them ipv4 
>> /24 pool and as stated by them (worth 1500$) free of charge and they can use 
>> it for as long as the owner doesn't want it for the mean time. This pool of 
>> ipv4 is given to encourage people to:
>> - join the organization
>> - sign NDA
>> - sign a petition against afrinic “ the context then was loss of trust” 
>> - sign documents to transfer your ip resources to RIPE NCC
> 
> I have no idea. I have no relationship with NRS.

As I understand it now, the petition is not against AFRINIC, but in favor of 
calling an SGMM in order to pass certain resolutions to restore functionality 
to AFRINIC.

> 
>> Microsoft took immediate steps to regain the public image and maybe still 
>> working on that, we never heard of Microsoft bribing members of Apnic to put 
>> a board of directors in Apnic to act as their minions.
> 
> There are still open questions around the ethics of how Microsoft managed to 
> “comply” with ARIN policies in justifying the need for the IPv4 addresses 
> they acquired from Nortel.
> 
>> The practice is questionable and doubtful as well as the intentions, why 
>> would someone spend this amount of money to win an election to board ? If 
>> you say to make changes fir the (transparency and accountability) etc  I 
>> would say baby-girls believe in unicorns and a few until they are 18, just 
>> like how we all believed once (because of media) that there is a superhero 
>> somewhere called Superman.
> 
> Again, you should ask the NRS directly. As I said, I have no affiliation with 
> NRS.
> 
> Owen
> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:21 PM Owen DeLong > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 04:51, Amin Dayekh >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dont forget that the acts are related directly and simultaneously to their 
>>> allegations.
>> 
>> As I have previously stated… I have no affiliation with NRS and find their 
>> conduct to be both immoral and unethical. 
>> 
>> Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the board has repeatedly 
>> acted against the bylaws, the RSA, the CPM, and the companies act.
>> 
>> Simply because one (of many) accusers has acted unethically does not 
>> invalidate the voracity of their claims when there is additional clear 
>> evidence and testimony from other independent sources. 
>> 
>>> It is a course of time and good conduct that takes the enterprise to prove 
>>> their good standing and change the general perception.
>> 
>> Which I have. I know my opinions are not popular in recent history, but I am

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

In simple terms, it seems you are much aware of the conduct, I can conclude
or at least assume that when I read between the lines. Tracking the history
of the offers, the offer of investment was the last step taken by them to
Legalise this. Contracts between businesses are defined by intentions, they
want to get the right of access to the myafrinic.net account and vote on
the members' behalf while in return they pay an amount of money
(considered) investment of 1% share to legalize this process. mind you the
shares 1% came at a very recent period. Even with this contract of 1% it is
still contestable and very fragile to stand as a legal deed.

Going through your emails, seems you are much aware of this, otherwise how
did you bring the investment issue up?

Have a good day and this discussion is going nowhere, it is your good
fortune I am having coffee now and decided to reply to you.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 8:15 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 20, 2022, at 00:04 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
>
> wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear, and
> read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe,
> multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board
> and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically,
> objectively, and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we
> can follow as members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.
>
>
> I’m not aware of any bribery or criminal conduct.
>
> There is a very fine legal line between making an investment in a company
> in exchange for certain rights or privileges and a bribe. I am not aware of
> any situations in which any such line has been crossed. I have not
> participated in any such situation on either side of that line other than
> as a normal shareholder in publicly traded (and a few private) companies,
> none of which are based in Africa or Afrinic members to the best of my
> knowledge (though at least one operates in Africa).
>
> I understand the topics you wish to pursue, but those topics are asked and
> answered and have nothing to do with me. As such, I’m not engaging in a
> discussion of those topics.
>
> OTOH, I am willing to engage in a discussion of the misdeeds of the board
> and the need for the membership and community of AFRINIC to take back
> control of their RIR and restore accountability and create greater
> transparency.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 7:12 AM Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2022, at 06:25 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>>
>> The discussion here is not about the board.
>>
>>
>> It is as far as I am concerned.
>>
>>
>
>>
>>
> Don't confuse Ethical/unethical conduct, with acts against the law.
>>
>>
>> The board has committed both.
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has committed only unethical/immoral and
>> not illegal acts.
>>
>
> To be clear, I have committed neither to the best of my knowledge.
>
>
>> Offering bribes to influence the outcome of the elections endangers our
>> role as members, questions the integrity of the nominee by such
>> organization using bribe and defamation to take control of AfriNic while
>> fighting it on the other hand,
>>
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, NRS has no open litigation against AFRINIC,
>> so I’m not sure what you mean here.
>>
>> How members are getting onboarded to such organization? by giving them
>> ipv4 /24 pool and as stated by them (worth 1500$) free of charge and they
>> can use it for as long as the owner doesn't want it for the mean time. This
>> pool of ipv4 is given to encourage people to:
>> - join the organization
>> - sign NDA
>> - sign a petition against afrinic “ the context then was loss of trust”
>> - sign documents to transfer your ip resources to RIPE NCC
>>
>>
>> I have no idea. I have no relationship with NRS.
>>
>
> As I understand it now, the petition is not against AFRINIC, but in favor
> of calling an SGMM in order to pass certain resolutions to restore
> functionality to AFRINIC.
>
>
>> Microsoft took immediate steps to regain the public image and maybe still
>> working on that, we never heard of Microsoft bribing members of Apnic to
>> put a board of directors in Apnic to act as their minions.
>>
>>
>> There are still open questions around the ethics of how Microsoft managed
>> to “comply” with ARIN policies in justifying the need for the IPv4
>> addresses they acquired from Nortel.
>>
>> The practice is questionable and doubtful as well as the intentions, why
>> would someone spend this amount of money to win an election to board ? If
>> you say to make changes fir the (transparency and accountability) etc  I
>> would say baby-girls believe in unicorns and a few until they are 18, just
>> like how we all believed once (because of media) that there is a superhero
>> somewhere called Superman.
>>
>>
>> Again, you should ask the NRS directly. As I said, I have no affiliation
>> with NRS.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:21 PM Owen DeLong  

Re: [Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Noah]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 10:23 AM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 20, 2022, at 00:04 , Amin Dayekh  wrote:
>
>
> wen, the discussion is not about the board, the emails are very clear, and
> read well. A bribe is a criminal offense, and so is offering a bribe,
> multiple offenses can amount to conspiracy. My disagreements with the board
> and AfriNIC were addressed through correct channels, ethically,
> objectively, and professionally. If we don't see changes, there are ways we
> can follow as members from within AfriNIC and not through the courts.
>
>
> I’m not aware of any bribery or criminal conduct.
>
> There is a very fine legal line between making an investment in a company
> in exchange for certain rights or privileges and a bribe.
>

Give us a break Owen, you really must think, folks in this part of the
world are clueless, don't you?

At least you have indicated finally that you have a clue as to what Amin
has been driving at, this far.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Interim order of June 14th 2022

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

By repeatedly violating the law, the bylaws, the COM, and the RSAs they have signed with various members, the board is acting against the interests of the membership and the community. This is a statement of fact, not one of representation. OwenOn Jun 20, 2022, at 10:11, Ish Sookun  wrote:Hi Owen,
On 20 Jun 2022, at 10:20, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss  wrote:As far as I am concerned, the AFRINIC board and management are the adversaries and they are so _BECAUSE_ they are acting contrary to the bylaws and against the interests of the membership and community.By saying that “they are acting [...] against the interests of the membership and community, are you speaking for the majority of members and the community?You can perhaps speak for one organisation or maybe a few, but I don’t think your statement represents the sentiment of the community.Regards,Ish Sookun

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