Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[sisoko daze]

Wait, i'm confused. So is leasing(or giving away) ip resources not allowed
under CPM? I don't understand.

by the way, how is the legal battle going on between larus and  afrinic?
who is winning ?

On Sun, 12 Dec 2021, 7:08 pm Arnaud AMELINA,  wrote:

> Ronald, you get a big point here.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Arnaud
>
>
> Le dim. 12 déc. 2021 à 08:33, Ronald F. Guilmette 
> a écrit :
>
>> Andrew Alston,  wrote:
>>
>> My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives
>> are.
>> Any company or any institution is free to offer promotional
>> services as
>> they see fit.
>>
>> Just a simple observation from the peanut gallery:
>>
>> If Lu Heng is now GIVING AWAY IP address blocks them maybe it would not
>> be inappropriate
>> to believe that maybe he didn't actually -need- quite as much as he
>> originally was
>> granted.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
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>>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Arnaud AMELINA]

Ronald, you get a big point here.

Regards

--
Arnaud


Le dim. 12 déc. 2021 à 08:33, Ronald F. Guilmette  a
écrit :

> Andrew Alston,  wrote:
>
> My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives
> are.
> Any company or any institution is free to offer promotional
> services as
> they see fit.
>
> Just a simple observation from the peanut gallery:
>
> If Lu Heng is now GIVING AWAY IP address blocks them maybe it would not be
> inappropriate
> to believe that maybe he didn't actually -need- quite as much as he
> originally was
> granted.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
> ___
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> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Arnaud AMELINA]

@Ronald F. Guilmette  +1000...

Le dim. 12 déc. 2021 à 08:50, Ronald F. Guilmette  a
écrit :

> In message <
> am7pr03mb645102e30274dee846c07048ee...@am7pr03mb6451.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
> >
> Andrew Alston  wrote:
>
> >Secondly - you keep referring to my time on the board - so - I once again
> >ask AfriNIC to please release me from the NDA to which I am bound so that
> I
> >am free to share what really happened during this period.
>
> This is kind-of a bullshit response for two (2) reasons:
>
> 1)  You *know* that AFRINIC is never going to say to you "OK, because you
> are
> such a sweet guy, we have decided that our NDAs are no longer applicable in
> your case."  It's just never gonna happen, so your statement is silly and
> vacuous on the face of it.  It is maningless.  You killed a bunch of
> electrons
> for absolutely nothing.
>
> 2)  AFRINIC is not in a position to sue anybody, EVEN IF someone were to
> *publicly*
> break one of their old NDAs.  So if you had any balls and if you had
> anything of
> importance to say, you would have said it already, if not publicly, and on
> the
> record, then you could have leaked what you know, confidentially, to any
> number
> of journalists.  (I have some phone numbers in case you are totally unable
> to find
> them on your own.)
>
> I'm sorry Andrew, but I have no patience for these games.  As you may
> know, we have
> a committee of our congress *and* a few thousand journalists who are
> working their
> butts off, as we speak, to try to find out the real truth of what happened
> in
> Washington D.C. this past January 6th.  The Trump loyalists are all hiding
> behind
> false claims of "executive privilege", just as you are hding behind your
> NDA, but
> other people *are* talking, both on and off the record, and as a result,
> the whole
> truth about January 6th *is* going to come out.
>
> You can either be part of the solution or be part of the problem.  Which
> you choose
> to be has more to do with your character than it has to do with any piece
> of paper,
> and it is a matter of public record that you have been on the "RIRs can
> blow me if
> they don't like wnat I'm doing" team for many many years now.  That puts
> you
> unambiguously on the same team as Lu Heng, and I guess that's why you
> don't really
> care to tell anybody what you know about how he really came to have more
> than $100
> million USD worth of "mana from heaven".
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message 

Andrew Alston  wrote:

>Secondly - you keep referring to my time on the board - so - I once again
>ask AfriNIC to please release me from the NDA to which I am bound so that I
>am free to share what really happened during this period.

This is kind-of a bullshit response for two (2) reasons:

1)  You *know* that AFRINIC is never going to say to you "OK, because you are
such a sweet guy, we have decided that our NDAs are no longer applicable in
your case."  It's just never gonna happen, so your statement is silly and
vacuous on the face of it.  It is maningless.  You killed a bunch of electrons
for absolutely nothing.

2)  AFRINIC is not in a position to sue anybody, EVEN IF someone were to 
*publicly*
break one of their old NDAs.  So if you had any balls and if you had anything of
importance to say, you would have said it already, if not publicly, and on the
record, then you could have leaked what you know, confidentially, to any number
of journalists.  (I have some phone numbers in case you are totally unable to 
find
them on your own.)

I'm sorry Andrew, but I have no patience for these games.  As you may know, we 
have
a committee of our congress *and* a few thousand journalists who are working 
their
butts off, as we speak, to try to find out the real truth of what happened in
Washington D.C. this past January 6th.  The Trump loyalists are all hiding 
behind
false claims of "executive privilege", just as you are hding behind your NDA, 
but
other people *are* talking, both on and off the record, and as a result, the 
whole
truth about January 6th *is* going to come out.

You can either be part of the solution or be part of the problem.  Which you 
choose
to be has more to do with your character than it has to do with any piece of 
paper,
and it is a matter of public record that you have been on the "RIRs can blow me 
if
they don't like wnat I'm doing" team for many many years now.  That puts you
unambiguously on the same team as Lu Heng, and I guess that's why you don't 
really
care to tell anybody what you know about how he really came to have more than 
$100
million USD worth of "mana from heaven".


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

Andrew Alston,  wrote:

My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives are.
Any company or any institution is free to offer promotional services as
they see fit.

Just a simple observation from the peanut gallery:

If Lu Heng is now GIVING AWAY IP address blocks them maybe it would not be 
inappropriate
to believe that maybe he didn't actually -need- quite as much as he originally 
was
granted.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Andrew, to coerce someone, you dont have to threaten... go read more on the
subject as there are multiple ways in which people can be persuaded into
doing unethical things.

There are already publicly available minutes of what transpired at board
level and as for the NDA, how about you make an official request.

If Larus is offering free /IPv4 addresses through the NRS at a time when
the AFRINIC free pool is depleting. This raises more questions?

Noah

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 23:56 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> Firstly Noah - nothing you have stated amounts to backing a claim of
> coercion - you have a choice to accept the offer or not. There has been no
> threat involved in you not taking the offer - the claim is therefore still
> libel and invalid.
>
> Secondly - you keep referring to my time on the board - so - I once again
> ask AfriNIC to please release me from the NDA to which I am bound so that I
> am free to share what really happened during this period.
>
> Noah - if you really want accountability and the truth - you will back the
> call for NDA release - let the truth come out - all of it - let's see what
> is really in the archives - because I am quite happy to share it if granted
> release - it may shock you what you see - and it may not be what you hoped
> you would see - at all
>
> Andrew
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 9, 2021 10:33:39 PM
> *To:* Andrew Alston 
> *Cc:* Saul Stein ; General Discussions of AFRINIC <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless
> lobbying
>
> Hey Andrew,
>
> So speaking of evidence in relation to NRS and LARUS Ltd.
>
>- I have in the past received emails & calls (blocked) from random NRS
>representatives and affiliates of Larus Ltd.
>- I know of multiple AFRINIC members here who have received multiple
>calls from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus Ltd.
>- I have received emails and multiple other AFRINIC resource members
>have received similar emails from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus
>Ltd  and these emails are seated in our inboxes and one such email was
>shared in the original post on this thread.
>- I know of AFRINIC resource members who have been on zoom calls and
>recorded interesting things :-).
>- There are emails and many emails to collaborate on a lot of
>activities related to LARUS. People don't just speak about it even though
>they are all disgusted. I on the other hand do and do so openly.  If the
>TRUTH pisses you off, feel free to delete any email with source address
>n...@..tz
>
> I mean, no AFRINIC Resource Member has ever gone this far in my
> experience. While you have decided to be politically correct by calling the
> behavior PROMOTION, I call it unethical and dishonest business practices in
> my humble opinion as the persistent calls are definitely not PROMOTIONS as
> you would like to twist it.
>
> So, allow me to categorically confirm to the Internet community that there
> is plenty of evidence all over the place, which points to some of the
> concerns I have raised in terms of selling/leasing of IPv4 addresses leave
> alone the new spinning strategy which now includes the offering of free /24
> IPv4 block for use for an entire year, free VPS for a month and free Cloud
> services by other 3rd parties.
>
> In my experience, none of the real serious Cloud Service Providers with
> serious economies of scale like AWS, AZURE or GCS have ever provided such
> PROMO like the ones NRS/Larus are pushing down our throats. I mean, have
> Amazon or Google or Microsoft ever called you constantly for free Cloud
> services, free /24 addresses etc.
>
> So my concerns with the NRS and Larus are simple.
>
> 1. We have an organization that is promising free IPv4 addresses and free
> Virtual Private Server which you are referring to, as PROMOTION. You really
> must think that folks out here are fools.
>
> 2. We have a resource member LARUS Ltd who supports the said organization
> the NRS, which is promising to offer free /24 IPv4 blocks while spreading
> misinformation. I say this because, I know the truth when I see the truth,
> I know lies when I see lies and I am also familiar with BS when I see BS.
>
> 3. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are
> constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a
> promise of free /24 IPv4 addresses space.
>
> 4. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are
> constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a
> promise of free 3rd party VPS Servers for 1 month.
>
> 5. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are
> constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a
> promise of free 3rd party Cloud Services.
>
> VPS services are considered communication services in 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss]

Firstly Noah - nothing you have stated amounts to backing a claim of coercion - 
you have a choice to accept the offer or not. There has been no threat involved 
in you not taking the offer - the claim is therefore still libel and invalid.

Secondly - you keep referring to my time on the board - so - I once again ask 
AfriNIC to please release me from the NDA to which I am bound so that I am free 
to share what really happened during this period.

Noah - if you really want accountability and the truth - you will back the call 
for NDA release - let the truth come out - all of it - let's see what is really 
in the archives - because I am quite happy to share it if granted release - it 
may shock you what you see - and it may not be what you hoped you would see - 
at all

Andrew

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Noah 
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 10:33:39 PM
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: Saul Stein ; General Discussions of AFRINIC 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Hey Andrew,

So speaking of evidence in relation to NRS and LARUS Ltd.

  *   I have in the past received emails & calls (blocked) from random NRS 
representatives and affiliates of Larus Ltd.
  *   I know of multiple AFRINIC members here who have received multiple calls 
from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus Ltd.
  *   I have received emails and multiple other AFRINIC resource members have 
received similar emails from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus Ltd  and 
these emails are seated in our inboxes and one such email was shared in the 
original post on this thread.
  *   I know of AFRINIC resource members who have been on zoom calls and 
recorded interesting things :-).
  *   There are emails and many emails to collaborate on a lot of activities 
related to LARUS. People don't just speak about it even though they are all 
disgusted. I on the other hand do and do so openly.  If the TRUTH pisses you 
off, feel free to delete any email with source address n...@..tz

I mean, no AFRINIC Resource Member has ever gone this far in my experience. 
While you have decided to be politically correct by calling the behavior 
PROMOTION, I call it unethical and dishonest business practices in my humble 
opinion as the persistent calls are definitely not PROMOTIONS as you would like 
to twist it.

So, allow me to categorically confirm to the Internet community that there is 
plenty of evidence all over the place, which points to some of the concerns I 
have raised in terms of selling/leasing of IPv4 addresses leave alone the new 
spinning strategy which now includes the offering of free /24 IPv4 block for 
use for an entire year, free VPS for a month and free Cloud services by other 
3rd parties.

In my experience, none of the real serious Cloud Service Providers with serious 
economies of scale like AWS, AZURE or GCS have ever provided such PROMO like 
the ones NRS/Larus are pushing down our throats. I mean, have Amazon or Google 
or Microsoft ever called you constantly for free Cloud services, free /24 
addresses etc.

So my concerns with the NRS and Larus are simple.

1. We have an organization that is promising free IPv4 addresses and free 
Virtual Private Server which you are referring to, as PROMOTION. You really 
must think that folks out here are fools.

2. We have a resource member LARUS Ltd who supports the said organization the 
NRS, which is promising to offer free /24 IPv4 blocks while spreading 
misinformation. I say this because, I know the truth when I see the truth, I 
know lies when I see lies and I am also familiar with BS when I see BS.

3. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are 
constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a promise 
of free /24 IPv4 addresses space.

4. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are 
constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a promise 
of free 3rd party VPS Servers for 1 month.

5. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are 
constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a promise 
of free 3rd party Cloud Services.

VPS services are considered communication services in most jurisdictions. How 
will the Tax man in my country handle such freemium services. You say it's 
PROMOTIONAL, yet even promotional services are taxed. How does Larus Ltd or the 
NRS plan to pay the taxes for such communication services rendered by a 3rd 
party for free to resource members in our country.

Now, Suppose such free VPS servers are used by SPAMMERS, DDOS and other 
Internet abuses etc, who will be liable. LARUS Ltd or NRS based in HongKong or 
AFRICA ON CLOUD based in ZA? Who will be held responsible for the potential 
abuse. This issue is my bloody business as a sane member of the Internet 
community so to speak, Internet security.

Now, let's put all the above aside, a 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Hey Andrew,

So speaking of evidence in relation to NRS and LARUS Ltd.

   - I have in the past received emails & calls (blocked) from random NRS
   representatives and affiliates of Larus Ltd.
   - I know of multiple AFRINIC members here who have received multiple
   calls from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus Ltd.
   - I have received emails and multiple other AFRINIC resource members
   have received similar emails from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus
   Ltd  and these emails are seated in our inboxes and one such email was
   shared in the original post on this thread.
   - I know of AFRINIC resource members who have been on zoom calls and
   recorded interesting things :-).
   - There are emails and many emails to collaborate on a lot of activities
   related to LARUS. People don't just speak about it even though they are all
   disgusted. I on the other hand do and do so openly.  If the TRUTH pisses
   you off, feel free to delete any email with source address n...@..tz

I mean, no AFRINIC Resource Member has ever gone this far in my experience.
While you have decided to be politically correct by calling the behavior
PROMOTION, I call it unethical and dishonest business practices in my
humble opinion as the persistent calls are definitely not PROMOTIONS as you
would like to twist it.

So, allow me to categorically confirm to the Internet community that there
is plenty of evidence all over the place, which points to some of the
concerns I have raised in terms of selling/leasing of IPv4 addresses leave
alone the new spinning strategy which now includes the offering of free /24
IPv4 block for use for an entire year, free VPS for a month and free Cloud
services by other 3rd parties.

In my experience, none of the real serious Cloud Service Providers with
serious economies of scale like AWS, AZURE or GCS have ever provided such
PROMO like the ones NRS/Larus are pushing down our throats. I mean, have
Amazon or Google or Microsoft ever called you constantly for free Cloud
services, free /24 addresses etc.

So my concerns with the NRS and Larus are simple.

1. We have an organization that is promising free IPv4 addresses and free
Virtual Private Server which you are referring to, as PROMOTION. You really
must think that folks out here are fools.

2. We have a resource member LARUS Ltd who supports the said organization
the NRS, which is promising to offer free /24 IPv4 blocks while spreading
misinformation. I say this because, I know the truth when I see the truth,
I know lies when I see lies and I am also familiar with BS when I see BS.

3. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are
constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a
promise of free /24 IPv4 addresses space.

4. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are
constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a
promise of free 3rd party VPS Servers for 1 month.

5. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are
constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a
promise of free 3rd party Cloud Services.

VPS services are considered communication services in most jurisdictions.
How will the Tax man in my country handle such freemium services. You say
it's PROMOTIONAL, yet even promotional services are taxed. How does Larus
Ltd or the NRS plan to pay the taxes for such communication services
rendered by a 3rd party for free to resource members in our country.

Now, Suppose such free VPS servers are used by SPAMMERS, DDOS and other
Internet abuses etc, who will be liable. LARUS Ltd or NRS based in HongKong
or AFRICA ON CLOUD based in ZA? Who will be held responsible for the
potential abuse. This issue is my bloody business as a sane member of the
Internet community so to speak, Internet security.

Now, let's put all the above aside, a resource member CIL was allocated
years ago multiple chunks of IPv4 addresses space to a tune of 6 million
addresses, that today in the year of our lord 2021 , companies like Larus
affiliated to the said resource member are calling other AFRINIC members
offering them free /24 IPv4 addresses so that they can join the Larus
affiliated organization the NRS based in Flat A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen
Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR.

The NRS members include Larus Ltd which is affiliated with CIL who are in
court with multiple litigation against AFRINIC. The other affiliate of NRS
is AFRICA ON CLOUD who also recently went to court to seek for the
Liquidation of AFRINIC.

Who is AFRINIC? AFRINIC is its members and the AFRICA Internet community.


*Now Mr, Andrew Alston, you were a director of the board at the time when
decisions to allocate the millions of IPv4 addresses to the said member
happened. You also sat on the said AFRINIC board's audit committee at the
time. Millions of IPv4 addresses were dashed out to a single member in span
of 3 years while you served the board and today 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss]

See - that right there is the whole point "have you done this" - no - I haven't 
- what the hell difference does that make.

The way I see it - businesses have strategy - they are not compelled to tell 
you what those strategies are - or what their promotional ideas are about - 
it's absolutely none of your business.

Maybe you think you can dictate everyone's strategies and criticize other 
peoples promos at will - and well - free speech and all that - but when you 
start alleging coercion - with no proof and no evidence - you cross the line 
into libel and I call code of conduct.

I am sick to death of your defamatory comments - constant libel - and afrinics 
willful lack of action no matter how much you say that crosses the line into 
innuendo - ad-hominem - libel - and general bad behavior.

Unless you can prove what Lu is doing is illegal - or in violation of the terms 
of his original application - and unless you can prove coercion - I am asking 
AfriNIC to please sanction you on this list for once again clearly violating 
the code of conduct.  Enough is enough - and if your employer won’t act against 
your incessant blather no matter how much damage you do to their reputation in 
the process - at the very least AfriNIC can enforce their own code of conduct

Andrew


Get Outlook for iOS

From: Noah 
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 11:10:44 AM
To: Andrew Alston 
Cc: Saul Stein ; General Discussions of AFRINIC 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Hey Andrew,

Your humble opinions are noted.

Firstly, I am not jealous of anything Lu does :-).

Secondly, my concern has nothing to with vengeance :-) because I have never 
quarrelled with Lu and this ain't personal bro.

Thirdly, I question the motives of Larus publicly because I have interacted 
with Lu Heng in person and in private and I pretty have an idea what his real 
motive is and that is to lease and sell IPv4 addresses as a product/service in 
themselves.

I have received emails from Larus is the past promising me IPv4 addresses for a 
good price. Until recently they are not promising free /24 IPv4 addresses for 
use in a whole year on some 3rd party infrastructure of AFRICA ON CLOUD or 
HUAWEI CLOUD as per the promo on nrs.help

Andrew, is this something you have offered as an ISP? As part of a connectivity 
service? Are there other LIR besides Larus offering 1 year freebies out there. 
I mean not even Amazon AWS does that :-)

In fact at some point, Lu in a side discussion attempted to convince me on the 
endless possibilities of monetizing idle IPv4 addresses from universities or 
something like that.

So I am writing from a very informed point of view Kaka Andrew and please 
ignore my boring opinions by sending any email with source address noah@ to the 
bin bro.

Cheers
Noah

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 10:30 Andrew Alston, 
mailto:andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives are. Any 
company or any institution is free to offer promotional services as they see 
fit.

If you have proof that they are not giving what they claim - that would 
constitute offering something not provided. Until then - you can whine all you 
like - but - if they wish to give away services - that is their commercial 
right to do so.

Furthermore - if indeed their application stated that the ip space would be 
used to provide vps / vpn / cloud-based services - then what they charge for 
such is is absolutely no consequence or business of yours.

Maybe instead of attacking other people's business offers and services you 
should find a way to compete if you choose to do so - otherwise it just looks 
like a case of a disgruntled person who can't compete.

At best you get to allege spam - if you prove this is spam and doesn't not have 
the requisite "unsubscribe me and don't send me this stuff again" options.  But 
- it certainly is not coercion - I suggest you look up the meaning of that word 
-

"the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats."

Right now all I see is someone who wants to whine against something someone 
else wants to do in what is starting to look like a really petty vengeance 
vendetta - and it's getting very boring

Andrew


Get Outlook for iOS

From: Noah mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 9:36:31 AM
To: Saul Stein mailto:s...@enetworks.co.za>>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Hi Saul,

Thanks for your email and noted as sometimes I get carried away when I read 
some of these dishonest emails from Larus affiliates.

So, while going through https://nsr.help website on the 
landing page, there is information related to freebies where;

The NRS are promising  a free 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Hey Andrew,

Your humble opinions are noted.

Firstly, I am not jealous of anything Lu does :-).

Secondly, my concern has nothing to with vengeance :-) because I have never
quarrelled with Lu and this ain't personal bro.

Thirdly, I question the motives of Larus publicly because I have interacted
with Lu Heng in person and in private and I pretty have an idea what his
real motive is and that is to lease and sell IPv4 addresses as a
product/service in themselves.

I have received emails from Larus is the past promising me IPv4 addresses
for a good price. Until recently they are not promising free /24 IPv4
addresses for use in a whole year on some 3rd party infrastructure of
AFRICA ON CLOUD or HUAWEI CLOUD as per the promo on nrs.help

Andrew, is this something you have offered as an ISP? As part of a
connectivity service? Are there other LIR besides Larus offering 1 year
freebies out there. I mean not even Amazon AWS does that :-)

In fact at some point, Lu in a side discussion attempted to convince me on
the endless possibilities of monetizing idle IPv4 addresses from
universities or something like that.

So I am writing from a very informed point of view Kaka Andrew and please
ignore my boring opinions by sending any email with source address noah@ to
the bin bro.

Cheers
Noah

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 10:30 Andrew Alston, 
wrote:

> My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives are. Any
> company or any institution is free to offer promotional services as they
> see fit.
>
> If you have proof that they are not giving what they claim - that would
> constitute offering something not provided. Until then - you can whine all
> you like - but - if they wish to give away services - that is their
> commercial right to do so.
>
> Furthermore - if indeed their application stated that the ip space would
> be used to provide vps / vpn / cloud-based services - then what they charge
> for such is is absolutely no consequence or business of yours.
>
> Maybe instead of attacking other people's business offers and services you
> should find a way to compete if you choose to do so - otherwise it just
> looks like a case of a disgruntled person who can't compete.
>
> At best you get to allege spam - if you prove this is spam and doesn't not
> have the requisite "unsubscribe me and don't send me this stuff again"
> options.  But - it certainly is not coercion - I suggest you look up the
> meaning of that word -
>
> "the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or
> threats."
>
> Right now all I see is someone who wants to whine against something
> someone else wants to do in what is starting to look like a really petty
> vengeance vendetta - and it's getting very boring
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 9, 2021 9:36:31 AM
> *To:* Saul Stein 
> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless
> lobbying
>
> Hi Saul,
>
> Thanks for your email and noted as sometimes I get carried away when I
> read some of these dishonest emails from Larus affiliates.
>
> So, while going through https://nsr.help website on the landing page,
> there is information related to freebies where;
>
> The NRS are promising  a free /24 courtesy of Larus Limited.
>
> 
>
> Larus Limited, an NRS honorable contributor, has donated /24 IP addresses
> for better Internet development. NRS provides an exclusive benefit of /24
> IP addresses to our network members as a means of improving Internet
> stability and growth. Currently, the market value of these /24 IP addresses
> is 1500 USD, but by joining NRS as a network member, you will get these
> addresses for free.
>
> Please click this link and get your free /24 IP addresses
> 
>
>
> And a free one month VPS courtesy of AFRICA ON CLOUD. The same AFRICA ON
> CLOUD that seeks to liquidate AFRINIC.
>
> 
> VPS AFRICA ON CLOUD
>
> One Month Free VPS Africa on Cloud, in partnership with NRS, will be
> offering a discount code for one month free VPS for NRS network members.
> With this VPS offering, your company will be able to host domains and
> servers. Sign up now and experience web-hosting for free through our VPS
> offer
>
> 
>
> SO one wonders what the motive for this free services are in light of all
> the ongoing litigation.
>
> Are other resource members falling for the trap which I suspect Larus
> Limited is trying to justify a customer base in the region because why else
> would Lu want to provide anyone with a free /24?
>
> For what purpose?
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
> I agree that ISOC does a better job on promoting internet freedom and that
> ISOC is widely recognised and respected so to speak compared to Lu's NRS.
>
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 08:59 Saul Stein,  wrote:
>
> Hi Noah,
>
> While sharing emails like this is interesting, I’d suggest leaving the
> emotion and profanity out of the email. It will add 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss]

My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives are. Any 
company or any institution is free to offer promotional services as they see 
fit.

If you have proof that they are not giving what they claim - that would 
constitute offering something not provided. Until then - you can whine all you 
like - but - if they wish to give away services - that is their commercial 
right to do so.

Furthermore - if indeed their application stated that the ip space would be 
used to provide vps / vpn / cloud-based services - then what they charge for 
such is is absolutely no consequence or business of yours.

Maybe instead of attacking other people's business offers and services you 
should find a way to compete if you choose to do so - otherwise it just looks 
like a case of a disgruntled person who can't compete.

At best you get to allege spam - if you prove this is spam and doesn't not have 
the requisite "unsubscribe me and don't send me this stuff again" options.  But 
- it certainly is not coercion - I suggest you look up the meaning of that word 
-

"the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats."

Right now all I see is someone who wants to whine against something someone 
else wants to do in what is starting to look like a really petty vengeance 
vendetta - and it's getting very boring

Andrew


Get Outlook for iOS

From: Noah 
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 9:36:31 AM
To: Saul Stein 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Hi Saul,

Thanks for your email and noted as sometimes I get carried away when I read 
some of these dishonest emails from Larus affiliates.

So, while going through https://nsr.help website on the 
landing page, there is information related to freebies where;

The NRS are promising  a free /24 courtesy of Larus Limited.




Larus Limited, an NRS honorable contributor, has donated /24 IP addresses for 
better Internet development. NRS provides an exclusive benefit of /24 IP 
addresses to our network members as a means of improving Internet stability and 
growth. Currently, the market value of these /24 IP addresses is 1500 USD, but 
by joining NRS as a network member, you will get these addresses for free.

Please click this link and get your free /24 IP addresses




And a free one month VPS courtesy of AFRICA ON CLOUD. The same AFRICA ON CLOUD 
that seeks to liquidate AFRINIC.


VPS AFRICA ON CLOUD

One Month Free VPS Africa on Cloud, in partnership with NRS, will be offering a 
discount code for one month free VPS for NRS network members. With this VPS 
offering, your company will be able to host domains and servers. Sign up now 
and experience web-hosting for free through our VPS offer



SO one wonders what the motive for this free services are in light of all the 
ongoing litigation.

Are other resource members falling for the trap which I suspect Larus Limited 
is trying to justify a customer base in the region because why else would Lu 
want to provide anyone with a free /24?

For what purpose?

Cheers,
Noah

I agree that ISOC does a better job on promoting internet freedom and that ISOC 
is widely recognised and respected so to speak compared to Lu's NRS.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 08:59 Saul Stein, 
mailto:s...@enetworks.co.za>> wrote:

Hi Noah,

While sharing emails like this is interesting, I’d suggest leaving the emotion 
and profanity out of the email. It will add to your credibility and stop people 
just saying, there he goes on a rant…



The reality as we all know is that anyone in Africa can become a member of 
AFRINIC and micro membership fess are only $1000 – can you can get a /23, not 
just a /24.



Since the internet is already a global eco system where everyone needs to work 
together, there are already organisations like ISOC etc  to who do promote this 
freedom they speak of.



Education is key, we all know this.







From: Noah mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>>
Sent: Wednesday, 08 December 2021 22:28
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying



Folks,



Are most of you still being coerced by the Lu Heng's wannabe RIR the NRS to 
join them.



I mean, reading the bullshit in the below email from one of the NRS 
representatives, a one Fiona Mwangi, clearly shows that Lu Heng is stopping at 
nothing to pretend and fake it that he has legitimate customers in the region 
by dashing out free /24's and some 1 month free VPS access and free Cloud 
services.



Is this how Lu Heng intends to justify that CIL has real end-users in the 
AFRINIC service region because that would be broad day light deceit and 
dishonesty.



Who the heck provides free /24 IPv4 block, free VPS and free Cloud Services.



Talk of bullshit and hamburg.



Cheers,

Noah





From: Fiona Nyawira Mwangi 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Hi Saul,

Thanks for your email and noted as sometimes I get carried away when I read
some of these dishonest emails from Larus affiliates.

So, while going through https://nsr.help website on the landing page, there
is information related to freebies where;

The NRS are promising  a free /24 courtesy of Larus Limited.



Larus Limited, an NRS honorable contributor, has donated /24 IP addresses
for better Internet development. NRS provides an exclusive benefit of /24
IP addresses to our network members as a means of improving Internet
stability and growth. Currently, the market value of these /24 IP addresses
is 1500 USD, but by joining NRS as a network member, you will get these
addresses for free.

Please click this link and get your free /24 IP addresses



And a free one month VPS courtesy of AFRICA ON CLOUD. The same AFRICA ON
CLOUD that seeks to liquidate AFRINIC.


VPS AFRICA ON CLOUD

One Month Free VPS Africa on Cloud, in partnership with NRS, will be
offering a discount code for one month free VPS for NRS network members.
With this VPS offering, your company will be able to host domains and
servers. Sign up now and experience web-hosting for free through our VPS
offer



SO one wonders what the motive for this free services are in light of all
the ongoing litigation.

Are other resource members falling for the trap which I suspect Larus
Limited is trying to justify a customer base in the region because why else
would Lu want to provide anyone with a free /24?

For what purpose?

Cheers,
Noah

I agree that ISOC does a better job on promoting internet freedom and that
ISOC is widely recognised and respected so to speak compared to Lu's NRS.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 08:59 Saul Stein,  wrote:

> Hi Noah,
>
> While sharing emails like this is interesting, I’d suggest leaving the
> emotion and profanity out of the email. It will add to your credibility and
> stop people just saying, there he goes on a rant…
>
>
>
> The reality as we all know is that anyone in Africa can become a member of
> AFRINIC and micro membership fess are only $1000 – can you can get a /23,
> not just a /24.
>
>
>
> Since the internet is already a global eco system where everyone needs to
> work together, there are already organisations like ISOC etc  to who do
> promote this freedom they speak of.
>
>
>
> Education is key, we all know this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 08 December 2021 22:28
> *To:* General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying
>
>
>
> Folks,
>
>
>
> Are most of you still being coerced by the Lu Heng's wannabe RIR the NRS
> to join them.
>
>
>
> I mean, reading the bullshit in the below email from one of the NRS
> representatives, a one Fiona Mwangi, clearly shows that Lu Heng is stopping
> at nothing to pretend and fake it that he has legitimate customers in the
> region by dashing out free /24's and some 1 month free VPS access and free
> Cloud services.
>
>
>
> Is this how Lu Heng intends to justify that CIL has real end-users in the
> AFRINIC service region because that would be broad day light deceit and
> dishonesty.
>
>
>
> Who the heck provides free /24 IPv4 block, free VPS and free Cloud
> Services.
>
>
>
> Talk of bullshit and hamburg.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Noah
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Fiona Nyawira Mwangi 
> *Subject:* Re: Become members of Number Resource Society
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> I am Fiona  from the Number Resources Society (NRS). The NRS is a
> gathering of  members who have the goal of preserving the stability of the
> internet. IP addresses are one of the most important resources for Internet
> related businesses.
>
> The NRS’s core beliefs and values are an unlimited, unrestricted, and
> united Internet that is based on a global free market and enterprise based
> on the principles of transparency and accountability. The establishment of
> the Society is an advocacy of the Internet’s stability, which can only be
> achieved by individuals, private companies, and ISPs having freedom in
> managing their networks and recognizing the Internet as one universal
> resource comprised of many individual networks each operated by and
> according to the wishes of its own management.
>
> With this, we are inviting your company to become part of the NRS and join
> us in this noble cause of protecting the internet. Through your
> participation, we are one step closer to achieving our goal of improving
> the status quo of the Internet.
>
> Your membership to the NRS will entitle you to our membership benefits,
> provided by NRS contributors:
>
> - /24 IPv4 address lease for your organization with lease fee waived
> provided by one of our NRS contributor (terms and conditions apply,
> including all RIR policy requirements and provider's accept use policy).
> Currently, /24 IP addresses are pegged at a price of USD$2,500 annually.
>
> -Free cloud space for your organization through another of our NRS
> contributors.
>
> -One month free 

Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Saul Stein]

Hi Noah,
While sharing emails like this is interesting, I’d suggest leaving the emotion 
and profanity out of the email. It will add to your credibility and stop people 
just saying, there he goes on a rant…

The reality as we all know is that anyone in Africa can become a member of 
AFRINIC and micro membership fess are only $1000 – can you can get a /23, not 
just a /24.

Since the internet is already a global eco system where everyone needs to work 
together, there are already organisations like ISOC etc  to who do promote this 
freedom they speak of.

Education is key, we all know this.



From: Noah 
Sent: Wednesday, 08 December 2021 22:28
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Folks,

Are most of you still being coerced by the Lu Heng's wannabe RIR the NRS to 
join them.

I mean, reading the bullshit in the below email from one of the NRS 
representatives, a one Fiona Mwangi, clearly shows that Lu Heng is stopping at 
nothing to pretend and fake it that he has legitimate customers in the region 
by dashing out free /24's and some 1 month free VPS access and free Cloud 
services.

Is this how Lu Heng intends to justify that CIL has real end-users in the 
AFRINIC service region because that would be broad day light deceit and 
dishonesty.

Who the heck provides free /24 IPv4 block, free VPS and free Cloud Services.

Talk of bullshit and hamburg.

Cheers,
Noah


From: Fiona Nyawira Mwangi mailto:f.mwa...@nrs.help>>
Subject: Re: Become members of Number Resource Society
Dear Sir,
I am Fiona  from the Number Resources Society (NRS). The NRS is a gathering of  
members who have the goal of preserving the stability of the internet. IP 
addresses are one of the most important resources for Internet related 
businesses.
The NRS’s core beliefs and values are an unlimited, unrestricted, and united 
Internet that is based on a global free market and enterprise based on the 
principles of transparency and accountability. The establishment of the Society 
is an advocacy of the Internet’s stability, which can only be achieved by 
individuals, private companies, and ISPs having freedom in managing their 
networks and recognizing the Internet as one universal resource comprised of 
many individual networks each operated by and according to the wishes of its 
own management.
With this, we are inviting your company to become part of the NRS and join us 
in this noble cause of protecting the internet. Through your participation, we 
are one step closer to achieving our goal of improving the status quo of the 
Internet.
Your membership to the NRS will entitle you to our membership benefits, 
provided by NRS contributors:
- /24 IPv4 address lease for your organization with lease fee waived provided 
by one of our NRS contributor (terms and conditions apply, including all RIR 
policy requirements and provider's accept use policy). Currently, /24 IP 
addresses are pegged at a price of USD$2,500 annually.
-Free cloud space for your organization through another of our NRS contributors.
-One month free VPS from one our NRS contributors.
-A vast networking platform of various stakeholders, telecommunication and IT 
companies, in addition to Internet Governance training and workshops.
Should you have any questions, or want to discuss more details, please do not 
hesitate to contact +254720260410  and visit our website : 
www.nrs.help
I am hoping for your positive response regarding this proposal.
Best regards,
Fiona Mwangi.

___
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Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

[Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

[Noah]

Folks,

Are most of you still being coerced by the Lu Heng's wannabe RIR the NRS to
join them.

I mean, reading the bullshit in the below email from one of the NRS
representatives, a one Fiona Mwangi, clearly shows that Lu Heng is stopping
at nothing to pretend and fake it that he has legitimate customers in the
region by dashing out free /24's and some 1 month free VPS access and free
Cloud services.

Is this how Lu Heng intends to justify that CIL has real end-users in the
AFRINIC service region because that would be broad day light deceit and
dishonesty.

Who the heck provides free /24 IPv4 block, free VPS and free Cloud Services.

Talk of bullshit and hamburg.

Cheers,
Noah


*From:* Fiona Nyawira Mwangi 
*Subject:* Re: Become members of Number Resource Society

Dear Sir,

I am Fiona  from the Number Resources Society (NRS). The NRS is a gathering
of  members who have the goal of preserving the stability of the internet.
IP addresses are one of the most important resources for Internet related
businesses.

The NRS’s core beliefs and values are an unlimited, unrestricted, and
united Internet that is based on a global free market and enterprise based
on the principles of transparency and accountability. The establishment of
the Society is an advocacy of the Internet’s stability, which can only be
achieved by individuals, private companies, and ISPs having freedom in
managing their networks and recognizing the Internet as one universal
resource comprised of many individual networks each operated by and
according to the wishes of its own management.

With this, we are inviting your company to become part of the NRS and join
us in this noble cause of protecting the internet. Through your
participation, we are one step closer to achieving our goal of improving
the status quo of the Internet.

Your membership to the NRS will entitle you to our membership benefits,
provided by NRS contributors:

- /24 IPv4 address lease for your organization with lease fee waived
provided by one of our NRS contributor (terms and conditions apply,
including all RIR policy requirements and provider's accept use policy).
Currently, /24 IP addresses are pegged at a price of USD$2,500 annually.

-Free cloud space for your organization through another of our NRS
contributors.

-One month free VPS from one our NRS contributors.

-A vast networking platform of various stakeholders, telecommunication and
IT companies, in addition to Internet Governance training and workshops.

Should you have any questions, or want to discuss more details, please do
not hesitate to contact +254720260410  and visit our website : www.nrs.help

I am hoping for your positive response regarding this proposal.

Best regards,

Fiona Mwangi.
___
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss