Re: [computer-go] Conjectures on Fuego
On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 09:52:35PM -0600, Martin Mueller wrote: Yes, Fuego uses just the 3x3 patterns; its strength is surprising. :-) Someone conjenctured it is because of how well-tuned its constants are. I also think large part of it is that it seems to use perfect nakade solver in playouts, so it should be very strong at playout tsumego; at least in my experiments I'm finding that crucial to strength of my bot... It is true that Fuego has no larger patterns. However, playouts also use a number of other rules, e.g. for low liberty and selfatari. Regarding parameter tuning, I am not so sure. This may have been true in the past. However, there have been many changes to Fuego in recent months, but the parameters have not been re-tuned, so there is probably room for improvement. Fuego is unfortunately also far from perfect in nakade playouts. It only implements a simple but effective rule of moving single stone selfataries to the adjacent point. This solves most stretched nakade shapes. However, bulky shapes are misplayed with high probability (and some with 100% probability...) Interesting! I got confused by GoUctUtil::IsMutualAtari, but now I'm not sure if it is even really used, nor exactly what is it supposed to actually test in that condition. :-) Then it turns out that I'm already implementing pretty much all the tests in Pachi as Fuego is, just probably way too mistuned and buggy, ah well... ;-) The strange thing is, I don't seem to be getting any noticeable gain from 2-liberty tactics and checking the pattern at two last moves instead of just the last one; did you get a big gain from these? -- Petr Pasky Baudis A lot of people have my books on their bookshelves. That's the problem, they need to read them. -- Don Knuth ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] October KGS bot tournament: 19x19 boards, slow
Reminder - it's tomorrow. Nick The October 2009 KGS computer Go tournament will be this Sunday, October 4th, in the Asian evening, European morning and afternoon, and American night, starting at 08:00 UTC/GMT (09:00 BST) and ending at 16:00 UTC/GMT (17:00 BST). There will only be one division. It will be an 8-round Swiss with 19x19 boards and 29 minutes each of main time. It will use Chinese rules with 7.5 points komi, and a fast Canadian Overtime, of 25 moves in 30 seconds. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=481. Registration is now open. To enter, please read and follow the instructions at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/how/index.html. The rules are given at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/rules.html. Your bot need not be strong to enter, indeed weak and new bots are particularly welcome. Please send your registration email (with the words KGS Tournament Registration in the title) to me at maproom at gmail dot com (converted to a valid address in the obvious way). Nick -- Nick Weddn...@maproom.co.uk ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] Conjectures on Fuego
Interesting! I got confused by GoUctUtil::IsMutualAtari, but now I'm not sure if it is even really used, nor exactly what is it supposed to actually test in that condition. :-) Then it turns out that I'm already implementing pretty much all the tests in Pachi as Fuego is, just probably way too mistuned and buggy, ah well... ;-) The strange thing is, I don't seem to be getting any noticeable gain from 2-liberty tactics and checking the pattern at two last moves instead of just the last one; did you get a big gain from these? The aim of mutual atari checking is to keep seki from being destroyed, by avoiding moves that are both selfatari and atari on the opponent. There are some size limits on the blocks involved, for example you need to be able to almost-fill a nakade space by selfatari-ing your nakade block. I had programmed this a long time ago, but while it was working beautifully on the seki regression test cases, it lead to a small overall decrease in playing strength. It has only become profitable (and enabled) shortly before the match against Chou 9p. The reason it works now in Fuego is that it is used in conjunction with a balancer, which means that Black and White must use this rule roughly equally often. I think we measured about 52% win rate in self- play from using mutual atari avoidance plus balancer. The original version of 2nd-last move pattern improved winning percentage against GnuGu from 73% to 78% with 3k simulations. That was in November 2007. 2-lib tactics was about 2% improvement around the same time but has been improved since. If I ever write a full paper on Fuego, I will test the effect of leaving out each of the existing rules individually. Or even better, someone else will do that :) Martin___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
