Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance ?!?!

2017-01-02 Thread Lukas van de Wiel 
Seconded. If the maintenance could be postponed to when we know who or what
is behind the Master account, that would be great!

Cheers
Lukas

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:17 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
wrote:

> Please, no maintenance right now.
> The days in computer go are just so hot.
>
> The team of "Master" offered 14,000 Dollars
> for any being beating the bot on January 02 or 03.
>
> We need the possibility to discuss this topic in realtime.
>
> Thx, ingo.
>
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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance ?!?!

2017-01-02 Thread Hideki Kato 
Dear Ingo,

Ingo Althofer: 
:
>Please, no maintenance right now.
>The days in computer go are just so hot.
>
>The team of "Master" offered 14,000 Dollars
>for any being beating the bot on January 02 or 03.

No, who offered the prize is not the team but Koriki 9p and 
FoxGo.

Hideki

>We need the possibility to discuss this topic in realtime.
>
>Thx, ingo.
-- 
Hideki Kato 
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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance ?!?!

2017-01-02 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Please, no maintenance right now.
The days in computer go are just so hot.

The team of "Master" offered 14,000 Dollars
for any being beating the bot on January 02 or 03.

We need the possibility to discuss this topic in realtime.

Thx, ingo.

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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime

2017-01-02 Thread veg 

Hi,
I haven't done anything yet, family showed up and put
everything on hold.
I'm curious what may have been different.  I have
approved some posts that were held for various reasons, but,
while seldom, that happens regularly.
If you like, indicate which they were.

Thanks,
Michael

On Sat, 31 Dec 2016, Rémi Coulom wrote:


Recent emails to the list are now classified as spam in my mail client. I did 
not take the time to check the reason in details. But it never happened in the 
past. Maybe you should check whether your SPF record is set correctly.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: v...@computer-go.org
À: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Décembre 2016 19:56:04
Objet: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance, a few days downtime


Hi,
I will be bringing the email lists down for a few
days while I rebuild the servers.  There should be no
apparent change.
It's seems like a good time, with little traffic,
so I'll take it down in a few hours.  I will post when it's
back.  It will have a new IP.

Thanks,
Michael
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Re: [Computer-go] SGF

2017-01-02 Thread Andries E. Brouwer 
On Mon, Jan 02, 2017 at 11:42:30AM -0800, David Fotland wrote:

> I think the character set property just refers to the contents
> of comments and similar fields. The sgf format itself is entirely
> in the common characters in UTF-8 and US-ASCII.
> There is no need to assume a character set before the property.
> If you find the character set property in the root node,
> it should apply to a root comment, even if it comes earlier
> in the properties in the root node.

In order to recognize the end of a comment C[text], one has
to recognize the closing ]. If the character set is multibyte,
it may have characters that have ] as a second byte.
(For example, the word Honinbo, spelled in Big5, contains a byte ']'.)

If one escapes bytes in the middle of a character, the resulting file
is no longer a text file, and corruption is the result.

If one does not escape bytes in the middle of a character,
one needs to be able to recognize the characters, i.e., know
the character set. That is why the CA[] property needs to come
before any non-ASCII text.

Andries

[Let me also bcc you directly - my previous reply did not make it to the list 
yet.]
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Re: [Computer-go] SGF

2017-01-02 Thread David Fotland 
I think the character set property just refers to the contents of comments and 
similar fields. The sgf format itself is entirely in the common characters in 
UTF-8 and US-ASCII. There is no need to assume a character set before the 
property. If you find the character set property in the root node, it should 
apply to a root comment, even if it comes earlier in the properties in the root 
node.

 

From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of 
Clark B. Wierda
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 11:35 AM
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] SGF

 

On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Dave Dyer  wrote:


Character encoding (usually UTF8 these days) ought not to be part of
the standard, it ought to be up to the containing file to describe the
encoding at that level.Likewise, nothing in the standard ought to
require support for particular character sets. Rather, if a sgf record
contains an unsupported character set, it will fail at the "reading"
phase, independent of the actual contents of the file.

I've used sgf as a general format for more than 70 different games,
as well as Go, and I only treat it as a rough guide.  I use a generic
read/write process that doesn't care about the content, and any sensible
user of the "standard" ought to do likewise.

The details of what properties exist and how they are used is always
going to be a negotiation between content originators and third party
consumers.

 

 

Since character set is a defined property, my main issue in writing a parser is 
assumptions until finding that property.

 

I would prefer we define a default that will apply until that property is 
found.  Currently, I use UTF8 which has worked so far.  I reopen the file with 
the defined character set (if supported) when I hit that property and restart 
the parse.

 

I'm glad to see that there is still discussion on the format.

 

Clark

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Re: [Computer-go] Short statement by Aja Huang

2017-01-02 Thread David Fotland 
Alpha's publication is pretty clear on how they did it. Now that their research 
has shown the way, other competent teams with similar compute resources should 
be able to duplicate their work.  It has been almost a year, which is enough 
time.

David

> -Original Message-
> From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of
> "Ingo Althöfer"
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 5:32 AM
> To: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Subject: [Computer-go] Short statement by Aja Huang
> 
> This screenshot was just posted in German's computer go forum:
> 
> https://scontent.fbkk5-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-
> 9/15823610_206422803154077_4501261067334984925_n.jpg?oh=1dd6e8324085c35ed14
> d9ae1176e33ec=591E1F54
> 
> Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] SGF

2017-01-02 Thread Clark B. Wierda 
On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Dave Dyer  wrote:

>
> Character encoding (usually UTF8 these days) ought not to be part of
> the standard, it ought to be up to the containing file to describe the
> encoding at that level.Likewise, nothing in the standard ought to
> require support for particular character sets. Rather, if a sgf record
> contains an unsupported character set, it will fail at the "reading"
> phase, independent of the actual contents of the file.
>
> I've used sgf as a general format for more than 70 different games,
> as well as Go, and I only treat it as a rough guide.  I use a generic
> read/write process that doesn't care about the content, and any sensible
> user of the "standard" ought to do likewise.
>
> The details of what properties exist and how they are used is always
> going to be a negotiation between content originators and third party
> consumers.
>
>
Since character set is a defined property, my main issue in writing a
parser is assumptions until finding that property.

I would prefer we define a default that will apply until that property is
found.  Currently, I use UTF8 which has worked so far.  I reopen the file
with the defined character set (if supported) when I hit that property and
restart the parse.

I'm glad to see that there is still discussion on the format.

Clark
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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

2017-01-02 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Hello Yamato,

> ... This comment was about GoBeta last April.
> 
> If "Master" (or something) is AlphaGo, he should have a strong reason
> not to use the name AlphaGo. So probably Aja cannot answer this, because
> he does not lie.
> 
> By the way, I found this tweet interesting :)
> https://twitter.com/ScienceNews/status/814559161312808965

thanks for the explanation and your "interesting"-sniplet.

By the way: A bet on Master's identity is underway. 
The idea is that the bet is undecided, if the question is not resolved
until the start of the European Go Congress (July 22 - August 06, 2017) 
in Oberhof (Thuringia; near Jena).
The computer go day in the EGC will very likely be Wednesday, August 02.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

2017-01-02 Thread Yamato 
Hello,

On 2017/01/02 21:47, Lukas van de Wiel wrote:
> From the thread we already read Aja's enlightenment:
> 
> /u/emdio pointed out:
> From a previous time in which a bot was suspicious to be AlphaGo:
> "I can confirm it's not AlphaGo or a weaker version of AlphaGo. We
> haven't decided to play AlphaGo online yet, but when the decision is
> made we will use AlphaGo(P) on tygem and AlphaGoBot on KGS.
> Aja"

This comment was about GoBeta last April.

If "Master" (or something) is AlphaGo, he should have a strong reason
not to use the name AlphaGo. So probably Aja cannot answer this, because
he does not lie.

By the way, I found this tweet interesting :)
https://twitter.com/ScienceNews/status/814559161312808965

Yamato
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[Computer-go] Short statement by Aja Huang

2017-01-02 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
This screenshot was just posted in German's
computer go forum:

https://scontent.fbkk5-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15823610_206422803154077_4501261067334984925_n.jpg?oh=1dd6e8324085c35ed14d9ae1176e33ec=591E1F54

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Fw: Re: Are the AlphaGols coming?

2017-01-02 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Hi Paweł,

a good collection of arguments and thoughts, thank you.

> I'd put all my money it's AlphaGo... 

How much money do you have?
You may answer in private mail, if appropriate.

Ingo.

PS. I have designed a LEGO scene on Frisbee Go:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6385.0;attach=5581;image
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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

2017-01-02 Thread Paweł Morawiecki 
Ingo,


> So, do you want to say that "Master" might be AlphaGo?
> From the disucssion I thought that "Master" was a chinese bot.
>
> I'd put all my money it's AlphaGo. They were certified by Korean Baduk
Association, hence a Korean flag when playing on Tygem. My personal belief
is that these games
put talks with Chinese Association in a right perspective. All people from
DeepMind always show a great respect towards pro go players, their
dedication and achievements.

Demis tweeted: "*we've been hard at work improving AG, delighted to
announce that more games will be played in early 2017! More details soon". *

But it was 2 months ago. I guess it's been just very hard talks that's why
they are silent. It's hard (for both sides) and propose and accept quite a
handicapped games. Such a powerful show on Tygem/Foxwq, hopefully, makes
matters smoother.

Regards,
Paweł



> If Aja is reading: can you enlighten us?
>
> Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

2017-01-02 Thread Lukas van de Wiel 
Hi all:

From the thread we already read Aja's enlightenment:

/u/emdio pointed out:
From a previous time in which a bot was suspicious to be AlphaGo:
"I can confirm it's not AlphaGo or a weaker version of AlphaGo. We
haven't decided to play AlphaGo online yet, but when the decision is
made we will use AlphaGo(P) on tygem and AlphaGoBot on KGS.
Aja"

Cheers and happy new year!
Lukas

On 1/2/17, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hello Paweł,
>
>> There have been another 8 games on Foxwq server:
>> ...
>> Totally, 38-0. It looks like a kind, indirect (yet powerful), message
>> from DeepMind to Chinese Go Association: "Please, let us try a real
>> challenge, like 3-handicap games, it does not really make much sense
>> to play even anymore".
>
> So, do you want to say that "Master" might be AlphaGo?
> From the disucssion I thought that "Master" was a chinese bot.
>
> If Aja is reading: can you enlighten us?
>
> Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

2017-01-02 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Hello Paweł,

> There have been another 8 games on Foxwq server: 
> ...
> Totally, 38-0. It looks like a kind, indirect (yet powerful), message 
> from DeepMind to Chinese Go Association: "Please, let us try a real 
> challenge, like 3-handicap games, it does not really make much sense 
> to play even anymore".

So, do you want to say that "Master" might be AlphaGo?
From the disucssion I thought that "Master" was a chinese bot.

If Aja is reading: can you enlighten us?

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

2017-01-02 Thread Paweł Morawiecki 
>
> Hi,
>


> The grey box shows the list of 30 games played by
> the "Master bot. All these games were won by the bot!
>
>
There have been another 8 games on Foxwq server:

Game 31: black2012 = Li Qincheng
Game 32: 星宿老仙 = Gu Li
Game 33: 星宿老仙 = Gu Li
Game 34: 我想静静了 = Dang Yifei
Game 35: 若水云寒 = Jiang Weijie
Game 36: 印城之霸 = Gu Zihao
Game 37: pyh = Park Yeonghun
Game 38: 天选 = Tuo Jiaxi
Totally, 38-0. It looks like a kind, indirect (yet powerful), message from
DeepMind to Chinese Go Association: "Please, let us try a real challenge,
like 3-handicap games, it does not really make much sense to play even
anymore". I think it would be much more exciting to see handicap games and
try to measure the difference between Alphago and the current human
knowledge and skills.

Best wishes for New Year,
Paweł




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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

2017-01-02 Thread Ingo Althöfer 
Hello,

here is a link to the German Computer Go forum:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=6381.msg208264#msg208264

The grey box shows the list of 30 games played by
the "Master bot. All these games were won by the bot!

Ingo.
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