Hi Nick, Thanks for mentioning our team! This is our first tournament. Hopefully we could do better next time.
Best, Yuandong On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:00 AM, <computer-go-requ...@computer-go.org> wrote: > Send Computer-go mailing list submissions to > computer-go@computer-go.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > computer-go-requ...@computer-go.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > computer-go-ow...@computer-go.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Computer-go digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Congratulations to Zen! (Nick Wedd) > 2. Re: Congratulations to Zen! (Hideki Kato) > 3. Re: History of influence concepts in go (Ingo Althöfer) > 4. Re: History of influence concepts in go (Nick Wedd) > 5. Re: History of influence concepts in go (Robert Jasiek) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 15:18:21 +0000 > From: Nick Wedd <mapr...@gmail.com> > To: computer-go@computer-go.org > Subject: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen! > Message-ID: > < > caevtg+p7j0-chg0tk9vw90_jd+nbqggdmdts94qdx+jctaj...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of the January KGS tournament! > > It was closely-contested, with a group of strong players at the top. These > included a newcomer to these events, darkfmcts3 (Darkforest from the > Facebook AI Project), which would probably have won with better > time-keeping. > > My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/119/index.html > As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections. > > Nick > -- > Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/attachments/20160110/7c91a2fb/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 00:34:25 +0900 > From: Hideki Kato <hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp> > To: computer-go@computer-go.org > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen! > Message-ID: <569279f9.6900%hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Dear Nick, > > I was surprised this very quick report, thanks. > > The Annual Championship is not 2015 but 2016 (and the page is not > updated yet). > > Best regards, > Hideki > > Nick Wedd: < > caevtg+p7j0-chg0tk9vw90_jd+nbqggdmdts94qdx+jctaj...@mail.gmail.com>: > >Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of the January KGS tournament! > > > >It was closely-contested, with a group of strong players at the top. These > >included a newcomer to these events, darkfmcts3 (Darkforest from the > >Facebook AI Project), which would probably have won with better > >time-keeping. > > > >My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/119/index.html > >As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections. > > > >Nick > -- > Hideki Kato <mailto:hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 20:06:19 +0100 > From: "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> > To: computer-go@computer-go.org > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] History of influence concepts in go > Message-ID: > > <trinity-ff127561-8929-4541-b449-cd82f7c46468-1452452779704@3capp-gmx-bs58 > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hello Robert, hello all, > > > > Von: "Robert Jasiek" <jas...@snafu.de> > > On 09.01.2016 22:44, Justin .Gilmer wrote: > > > influence > > > = A1 0.3 ... > > > > Influence is not a one-value property. > > it seems that different people are using the name "influence" > for different objects/properties. > > In the computer go scene, 1-dimensional use goes back to > Albert Zobrist in his doctoral dissetation from 1970. > > Where does your framework for "multi-dimensional" influence comes from? > > Best regards, Ingo. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 19:23:46 +0000 > From: Nick Wedd <mapr...@gmail.com> > To: computer-go@computer-go.org > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] History of influence concepts in go > Message-ID: > < > caevtg+mnxaewwchw5jm7ar1h09vszjns-nbrop+e76xfyxg...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello Ingo, > > I would assume that Robert is using "influence" as described at > http://senseis.xmp.net/?Influence > I think I was aware of this sense before 1970. It is not one-dimensional: a > shimari is said to radiate more influence along one side than the other. > > Best regards, > Nick > > > > On 10 January 2016 at 19:06, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote: > > > Hello Robert, hello all, > > > > > > > Von: "Robert Jasiek" <jas...@snafu.de> > > > On 09.01.2016 22:44, Justin .Gilmer wrote: > > > > influence > > > > = A1 0.3 ... > > > > > > Influence is not a one-value property. > > > > it seems that different people are using the name "influence" > > for different objects/properties. > > > > In the computer go scene, 1-dimensional use goes back to > > Albert Zobrist in his doctoral dissetation from 1970. > > > > Where does your framework for "multi-dimensional" influence comes from? > > > > Best regards, Ingo. > > _______________________________________________ > > Computer-go mailing list > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > > -- > Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/attachments/20160110/6a86a7ff/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 06:55:06 +0100 > From: Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de> > To: computer-go@computer-go.org > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] History of influence concepts in go > Message-ID: <569343ba.5000...@snafu.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > On 10.01.2016 20:06, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote: > > it seems that different people are using the name "influence" > > for different objects/properties. > > > > In the computer go scene, 1-dimensional use goes back to > > Albert Zobrist in his doctoral dissetation from 1970. > > > > Where does your framework for "multi-dimensional" influence comes from? > > Influence is a well-known term among players but its clear meaning > remained a mystery until I described in 2011. Before influence was so > unclear that it was hard, as a player, to know its difference from the > other related term thickness. Early player understanding of influence > was as naive as black / white influence light decreasing by distance > (i.e., it is not really influence but proximity multiplied by some > radiation function such as 1 or 1/x^2 or Manhattan distance and negative > for white light and maybe visually blocked by the disks of stones) but > everybody knew that that was wrong because dead stones do not create as > much influence as live stones. Early expert system programs used the > same naive concept, and every programmer would use his own > implementation of distance and intensity of light. Such light maps give > colourful maps that are impressive as paintings but close to useless > because of containing both correct and false information. > > Stronger players know that influence and thickness are related to > strength of the stones creating the influence and solidity of the groups > of thickness. But what is strength? From traditional Asian go theory, it > was known that there is some relation between strength and strategic > concepts such as (little) aji, development directions, board > partitioning lines, potential for further territory etc. However, a > systematic assessment of strength was missing. > > So I studied the fundamentals of the traditional go theory and noticed > that several strategic concepts (such as aji) used for thickness and > influence were just implications of the more basic strategic concepts of > connection, life and territory. I invented / (for 'life') rediscovered > degrees of connection, life and territory, distinguished influence (the > property of affecting other intersections) from thickness / thick shape > stones (the property of the "strong" stones creating the influence) and > defined both in terms of degrees of connection, life and territory. > Territory is optional in the definition and can also be studied > independently. Territory as a propery makes sense because it makes a > difference whether influence cannot be used because of being in a > neutral region or whether it is / can be used for protecting existing / > making additional territory. > > Study a few simple examples of groups of strong stones with a few or > more opposing stones in the neighbourhood, and you notice that degrees > of connection and degrees of life can differ from each other. So > influence / thickness must be described at least by these two degrees. > Furthermore, the values differ for Black and White, so at least four > parameters are necessary for a complete description. > > You find my informal definitions here > http://senseis.xmp.net/?Influence > http://senseis.xmp.net/?Thickness > or more carefully in my books. For the precise parameters of connection > and life see > http://senseis.xmp.net/?NConnection > http://senseis.xmp.net/?NAlive > > Concepts of proximity should be called 'proximity' while concepts of > influence should be called 'influence'. Proximity maps / functions do > not explain influence except for the simplest examples in which all > stones are alive and the view is clear in every direction. > > Computer go can have various study purposes (such as training neural > nets or predicting the final colour control in a scoring position) and > some sort of function over all intersections assigning them a single > number may be convenient for fast numerical training, but do not forget > that such a simplication trains both correct and false information > without distinguishing them properly. If we want to become stronger > players or create stronger programs, we must distinguish correct from > false information. Therefore, replace 1-dimensional by multi-dimensional > values if the task is to assess current positions rather than final > scoring positions, in which one value is sufficient. > > -- > robert jasiek > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > ------------------------------ > > End of Computer-go Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9 > ****************************************** > -- ---------------------------- Yuandong Tian Research Scientist, Facebook Artificial Intelligence Research (FAIR) Website: https://research.facebook.com/researchers/1517678171821436/yuandong-tian/
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