Re: [CGUYS] Build from scratch [was: Switching, and why]
What are you talking about? You write your own ROMS so you can put os x on homemade motherboards? On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 8:16 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: You think you can build a mac from scratch? Do you solder your own motherboards? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Hp Hulk Monitor
Excuse me for asking the obvious question, but have you tried the adjustment buttons on the front of the monitor? If you have young kids, that is one of the things they eventually get around to messing with, whereas the adults just forget that those buttons are there. I found the display manuals here: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/manualCategory?lc=encc=usproduct=324213dlc=en Let us know how it turns out. From: One Man [mailto:one911...@yahoo.com] The display on the monitor of my hp pavilion f1703 running windoze xp has transformed its insipid blue background to hulk green. Anything I can do or is it time to buy a new monitor, preferable made my macintosh? ;) With thanks in advance ... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] need help with wifi problem in a large art center
On Jul 21, 2009, at 9:48 PM, cindy brandt wrote: We do have some welders in the building, kilns, and lots of microwaves. Knowing this I would have recommended against WiFi. Signal strength is not the right measure in all situations. What we really care about is the signal to noise ratio. In most situations the noise is low so we just look at signal strength. Not so in your case. I would think that in your environment it would not have been that hard to run wires. If bought from the right supplier, wires are not that expensive. In an industrial/studio type of space the running of wires may be quite easy as you have big open spaces and neatness does not count. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
On Jul 21, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Oh look! Another hateful WFB: http://www.cio.com/article/497443/ Apple_Secrets_Lead_to_The_Great_iPhone_Chase_?page=2taxonomyId=1436 No, just a demonstration of WFB stupidity. MFBs know that availability is no secret... http://www.apple.com/retail/iphone/availability.php The table breaks out by individual store and model. Apple says their availability page is updated hourly. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Drive Image Backup
On Jul 21, 2009, at 5:49 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Excepting that SecondCopy isn't imaging software as the OP was looking for. I agree completely, for better software you need to get a Mac. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Apple Sales
Heard this morning. 2.6 ,million computers sold, 4% increase from last year. Only down spot was Ipod's and they feel that market is moving to the Iphone (1 million of the new s model, 5.2 million of the $99 model). Stewart Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Drive Image Backup
I agree completely, for better software you need to get a Mac. Yes, but only if you then run Windows on top of it. Then you get quality *and* choice of software, rather than the paltry few bones thrown to Apple. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Sales
On Jul 22, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Only down spot was Ipod's and they feel that market is moving to the Iphone (1 million of the new s model, 5.2 million of the $99 model). The success of the iPhone artificially depresses iPod sales figures as anyone who buys an iPhone gets an iPod as part of the deal, but Apple has never been afraid of competing with itself. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Switching, and why
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM, David K Watsondavidkirkwat...@gmail.com wrote: But why else would Microsoft be running its laptop hunters commercials unless they had evidence that they were being hurt by Apple? Or, be seeking to open retail stores right next to or close to Apple stores? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
No, just a demonstration of WFB stupidity. MFBs know that availability is no secret... http://www.apple.com/retail/iphone/availability.php The table breaks out by individual store and model. Apple says their availability page is updated hourly. Gosh, you think the Apple store staff might actually been *helpful*, instead of behaving like the Stasi. Hmmm, maybe the geniuses don't know about that option. Plausible deniability is always the best policy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Sales
I was only reporting what I heard, plus with 5.2 million of the old phones sold I think that is a bunch of Ipod replacements out there!!! Actually I do not think of it as competition, They get a touch that also doubles as a phone. Stewart At 09:51 AM 7/22/2009, you wrote: On Jul 22, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Only down spot was Ipod's and they feel that market is moving to the Iphone (1 million of the new s model, 5.2 million of the $99 model). The success of the iPhone artificially depresses iPod sales figures as anyone who buys an iPhone gets an iPod as part of the deal, but Apple has never been afraid of competing with itself. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
Some good stuff! Thanks John Duncan Yoyo wrote: The best quote on Apple people I have read in a while is this strips punchline- http://www.dieselsweeties.com/archive/2324 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
On Jul 22, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: Gosh, you think the Apple store staff might actually been *helpful*, instead of behaving like the Stasi. Highly unlikely. Or could this be another variation of Laptop Hunters? Somebody complaining about Apple who did not actually step inside an Apple Store? Misinformation planted by M$? After all this is CIO magazine. They cater to bone heads. Note their story on Apple's 2nd quarter 12% gain (while the industry slumped 3%) is not attributed to anything Apple did: But I don't know how much of this is Apple's doing. The real change, I think, is more of consumer confidence. That is horse shit. Consumer confidence did not rebound in the 2nd quarter. If anything, people were cutting back and looking at expenses carefully. A careful shopper is more likely to buy the better product. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] OpenOffice 3.0 dialog box
In the dialog box for opening a document in OpenOffice 3 [Vista], the list of translators/converters isn't in alphabetical order. It's a long list--takes a long time to find the right converter. Can this list be put in alphabetical order? Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
Highly unlikely. Or could this be another variation of Laptop Hunters? Somebody complaining about Apple who did not actually step inside an Apple Store? Misinformation planted by M$? Sure, it's possible. MS has been taking a few pages out of Apple's playbook recently, all to great tantrums of Appleistas. Page one is lie, distort and misinform. Considering your reaction, they must be spot-on. After all this is CIO magazine. They cater to bone heads. I'll keep that in mind the next time they pimp another article on Macs in the enterprise. Note their story on Apple's 2nd quarter 12% gain (while the industry slumped 3%) is not attributed to anything Apple did: But I don't know how much of this is Apple's doing. The real change, I think, is more of consumer confidence. That is horse shit. Consumer confidence did not rebound in the 2nd quarter. If anything, people were cutting back and looking at expenses carefully. A careful shopper is more likely to buy the better product. I think it's as likely that your interpreation is as much horse shit as theirs. Reality is rarely that simple. Maybe it has something to do with Apple timing the release of the new iPhone to come at the end of 2Q and not the begniing of 3Q as they did the last time. This front-loads the iPhone numbers and makes the quarter look plumper than it would have otherwise. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
CIO zine has been crap since its inception. It took me 2-3 years to rid myself of the free-subscription they anointed me with. They are very toady to the large, usual suspects and show an absolute lack of analysis or original thinking. Poorly trained business types with technical pretensions. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Highly unlikely. Or could this be another variation of Laptop Hunters? Somebody complaining about Apple who did not actually step inside an Apple Store? Misinformation planted by M$? After all this is CIO magazine. They cater to bone heads. Note their story on Apple's 2nd quarter 12% gain (while the industry slumped 3%) is not attributed to anything Apple did: But I don't know how much of this is Apple's doing. The real change, I think, is more of consumer confidence. That is horse shit. Consumer confidence did not rebound in the 2nd quarter. If anything, people were cutting back and looking at expenses carefully. A careful shopper is more likely to buy the better product. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Sales
Only down spot was Ipod's and they feel that market is moving to the Iphone (1 million of the new s model, 5.2 million of the $99 model). The success of the iPhone artificially depresses iPod sales figures as anyone who buys an iPhone gets an iPod as part of the deal, but Apple has never been afraid of competing with itself. I was in the local Apple Store last night looking at a new iPod Touch. The second generation Touch is a different kind of iPhone. It has Bluetooth and can take voice input from the iPhone headphone/mic. With WiFi, it can do VOIP [so far it's Skype], but only with a WiFi network rather than a cellular network. Replacing my perfectly good 1st gen Touch that my son gave me when he got his iPhone is tempting, but I wouldn't get an iPhone. Touch with Skype is perfect for my needs since I prefer Nokia phones to the iPhone. Jeff Miles -- I asked at the Apple Store whether they had a web cam so you could see how crowded and lively it was on a Tuesday night in a mall that's half closed for renovation. Location: Christiana Mall, Newark, Delaware. Webcam: none. Sorry. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Build from scratch [was: Switching, and why]
What are you talking about? You write your own ROMS so you can put os x on homemade motherboards? You could build a PC with an Intel board and load Mac OS X if you made minor code changes. Early versions of OS X Rhapsody ran on Windows NT PPC servers. Now X can run on HP, Dell, MSI, etc. The mysterious world of Macintosh hardware is fairly easy to understand if you want to do it. Plenty of Mac users have built and rebuilt their own Mac boxes, but most of us don't care to do that. If a Mac is too expensive, we either buy last year's version, and/or add extra parts ourselves instead of ordering a Mac with the fancy video card or extra RAM or huge HD pre-installed. However, there's no reason for building PCs because you imagine you can't build Macs from scratch. You could if you wanted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Build from scratch [was: Switching, and why]
Which I said I had done...which sort of takes complete care of your argument to buy a mac to tear into instead of just building a pc and run whichever OS you want. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 12:32 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: However, there's no reason for building PCs because you imagine you can't build Macs from scratch. You could if you wanted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
At 12:49 PM -0500 7/22/09, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: CIO zine has been crap since its inception. It took me 2-3 years to rid myself of the free-subscription they anointed me with. They are very toady to the large, usual suspects and show an absolute lack of analysis or original thinking. Poorly trained business types with technical pretensions. Sorta like Network World. -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
Worse, this is not CIO magazine's own writers saying this, they are quoting an analyst with Technology Business Research who essentially is implying that consumer confidence rebounded in the second quarter, but only for Apple users. That is some interesting professional analysis and fact-checking there. For the doubters, read it yourself: http://www.cio.com/article/497823/Apple_Beats_Recession_Sells_More_Macs_Touts_Value_ At least a bad is an article in The Inquirer which touted IDC's misguided predictions for the quarter as established fact in an article, Apple tanks in the pc market, just days before Apple released their financial report. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1433741/apple-tanks-pc-market From:t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com After all this is CIO magazine. They cater to bone heads. Note their story on Apple's 2nd quarter 12% gain (while the industry slumped 3%) is not attributed to anything Apple did: But I don't know how much of this is Apple's doing. The real change, I think, is more of consumer confidence. That is horse shit. Consumer confidence did not rebound in the 2nd quarter. If anything, people were cutting back and looking at expenses carefully. A careful shopper is more likely to buy the better product. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OpenOffice 3.0 dialog box
Any chance you can begin to type the first few letters of the one you want and it sorts? On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:46 AM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: In the dialog box for opening a document in OpenOffice 3 [Vista], the list of translators/converters isn't in alphabetical order. It's a long list--takes a long time to find the right converter. Can this list be put in alphabetical order? Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OpenOffice 3.0 dialog box
Is it even necessary to pick a type? When opening an existing document, just open it, ignoring the file types entirely. The file extension is supposed to tell the app what it is you're opening. I dunno, as these days I either use Office or a cloud solution (Zoho, Google Docs). On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 4:52 PM, mikexha...@gmail.com wrote: Any chance you can begin to type the first few letters of the one you want and it sorts? On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 9:46 AM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: In the dialog box for opening a document in OpenOffice 3 [Vista], the list of translators/converters isn't in alphabetical order. It's a long list--takes a long time to find the right converter. Can this list be put in alphabetical order? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] WFB's Hatred of Apple Knows No Bounds
On Jul 22, 2009, at 1:49 PM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: Poorly trained business types with technical pretensions. Abbreviates as CIO. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] OS X blackhat training
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/20/advanced_mac_osx_rootkits/ Advanced rootkit design techniques from a OS X security expert. You know the guy that hacked a mac in like 30 seconds. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Build from scratch [was: Switching, and why]
There you go with the same misconception. You don't have to trash an old Mac to build a new one. You CAN build a Mac from scratch just like you built your PC. You probably don't want to, but it's been possible for a long time, especially since Apple started using Intel processors. Which I said I had done...which sort of takes complete care of your argument to buy a mac to tear into instead of just building a pc and run whichever OS you want. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 12:32 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: However, there's no reason for building PCs because you imagine you can't build Macs from scratch. You could if you wanted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Build from scratch [was: Switching, and why]
I don't have any misconceptions, I don't have a mac tower laying around to build some hacintosh. I get most my computer parts either free or wholesale...I've built a whitebox hacintosh. I've said that twice. I don't know why you keep pushing the mac angle. Hardware hobbyists are not going to buy a 2500 dollar mac tower and then six months later tear it down and put new hardware into it...that's what I do, I've put new mobos/cpus/ram in my towers about every six to eight months for the last few years. Installed linux, mac, solaris and windows several times. Backyard mechanics don't buy brand new 2010 camaros to tear them down six months later and put a new engine in. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:52 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: There you go with the same misconception. You don't have to trash an old Mac to build a new one. You CAN build a Mac from scratch just like you built your PC. You probably don't want to, but it's been possible for a long time, especially since Apple started using Intel processors. Which I said I had done...which sort of takes complete care of your argument to buy a mac to tear into instead of just building a pc and run whichever OS you want. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 12:32 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: However, there's no reason for building PCs because you imagine you can't build Macs from scratch. You could if you wanted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OS X blackhat training
On Jul 22, 2009, at 6:38 PM, mike wrote: Advanced rootkit design techniques from a OS X security expert. You know the guy that hacked a mac in like 30 seconds. He didn't hack a Mac in 30 seconds. He ran a prepared script. Big difference. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Sales
Julien Blin, analyst for JBB Research, expects Apple to continue to dominate the PC and smartphone market in terms of innovation. The only threat to Apple remains itself, Blin said in a recent analysis. In other words, if they play their cards right, nobody can stop them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Build from scratch [was: Switching, and why]
It isn't scratch but from cake mix. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 6:52 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: There you go with the same misconception. You don't have to trash an old Mac to build a new one. You CAN build a Mac from scratch just like you built your PC. You probably don't want to, but it's been possible for a long time, especially since Apple started using Intel processors. Which I said I had done...which sort of takes complete care of your argument to buy a mac to tear into instead of just building a pc and run whichever OS you want. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 12:32 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: However, there's no reason for building PCs because you imagine you can't build Macs from scratch. You could if you wanted. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Lotus Organizer
I have an old Lotus Organizer that I got used to and I am still using in my office. But it is giving me warnings about using all my resources. WXP Home. 4 Gb. Is there a newer program where I can keep track of my patients like the Lotus does? Thanks Marcio * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Build from scratch [was: Switching, and why]
I don't have any misconceptions, I don't have a mac tower laying around to build some hacintosh. I get most my computer parts either free or wholesale...I've built a whitebox hacintosh. I've said that twice. I don't know why you keep pushing the mac angle. Hardware hobbyists are not going to buy a 2500 dollar mac tower and then six months later tear it down and put new hardware into it... You didn't follow my comment. Nobody who wants to build a computer to run Mac software has to start with an old Mac. You can use any old or new box or build your own box. Then you can put all of the parts inside--free or wholesale--same as you do now. The point is that both the process and the parts can be the same for either system. Why do you keep talking about starting with a $2500 Mac tower? You could put mostly generic and scrounged parts along with an Intel processor [nothing Mac/Apple specific] into an old fishtank if you wanted, then make it water cooled. No old Mac or Mac parts required. No investment in a Mac tower or Mac of any kind. It's the same as building a PC, including most of the same parts, and then it could run multiple systems. Ever build a mechanical computer? Did that as a high school project with my brother many years ago. Didn't require any parts from old computers or anything special off the shelf. Was mostly wood. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OS X blackhat training
But is that not what most hackers do? They examine and look at the OS they want to hack and then through trial and error find the way to do it. Stewart At 07:23 PM 7/22/2009, you wrote: He didn't hack a Mac in 30 seconds. He ran a prepared script. Big difference. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Build from scratch [was: Switching, and why]
On Jul 22, 2009, at 9:26 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: Why do you keep talking about starting with a $2500 Mac tower? You could put mostly generic and scrounged parts along with an Intel processor [nothing Mac/Apple specific] into an old fishtank if you wanted, then make it water cooled. No old Mac or Mac parts required. No investment in a Mac tower or Mac of any kind. It's the same as building a PC, including most of the same parts, and then it could run multiple systems. 'cause he wants to be hired to write the script for the next Laptop Hunters advert. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Sales
Yes, after all the recent bad news for them, they can really use this relatively good report. Even if Jobs had nothing to do with it. On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:21 PM, t.piwowart...@tjpa.com wrote: Julien Blin, analyst for JBB Research, expects Apple to continue to dominate the PC and smartphone market in terms of innovation. The only threat to Apple remains itself, Blin said in a recent analysis. In other words, if they play their cards right, nobody can stop them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?
Apple knows how to make money. Like their 1% share of the cell phone market that nets them 20% of the revenues. Got to admire that. I'd say that most of the bigger companies know how to make money, but yeah, I gotta respect that. They're fleecing *everyone* in the supply chain, not just the consuming public. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
