Re: Design - Replacing Continuum's Web Framework
On 12/2/05, Emmanuel Venisse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I never used JSF, but i've heard too some negatives points. I think it's more > simple to do the > migration to jsp technology because (if we need some help, tools, > components...) lot of resources > are available > JSF is JSP based, you can use jstl and taglibs to write your jsps.
Re: Design - Replacing Continuum's Web Framework
Carlos, do you have a simple sample that use acegi? Emmanuel Carlos Sanchez a écrit : Acegi is based in servlet filters for the protection of urls, so the web framework used won't impact its use. Are you planning protecting just urls or any other stuff? acegi can do authorization and authentication at class, method and instance level too, but I think that's only needed in a few types of applications. I was in a project using JSF and seems that it's adoption is getting speed, with different implementations and a lot of extensions, utilities and tools. I've heard very good things about using Facelets+JSF to create components, and also about Spring MVC, but seems to me that people using Spring MVC is moving to JSF. My 2 cents On 12/1/05, John Casey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi everyone, We've been talking about this for quite awhile in various channels, and I wanted to take a few minutes and formalize the discussion. I'll capture the highlights of this discussion in the wiki afterwards. I'll start by posting my own thoughts, and let you all respond. Up to this point, Continuum has been built on a web framework called Summit, which is part of the Plexus project, and using Velocity as the page rendering technology. Summit is still a very young project, and as a result has its problems. Given the proliferation of web frameworks out there, it seems natural to wonder whether we couldn't find something more mainstream and mature that will fit our needs. The key goal here is to make the web tier as easy to understand as possible by the widest possible audience, without sacrificing anything in the way of quality. To that end, criteria might include: * tool support * maturity in the form of multiple final releases (or at least one) * good integration with JSP (it's the most widely-used rendering technology out there for java) * ready availability of good documentation * integration with a decent security library (think acegi) * others? Another big concern is that we need to be able to make this web framework integrate with Plexus without too much funny business. I don't expect that to be a big problem, but worth mentioning. I know that a certain amount of work has been done by Trygve and Emmanuel to get WebWork running inside Plexus. Is this the best framework? A quick check of Amazon showed three books, only one of which is completely concerned with WW. SpringMVC might be another option, since it has probably the most natural integration with Acegi. There is a certain amount of overlap between Spring and Plexus that we'd probably have to map with a custom Spring container or something, but that's likely to be everywhere, since dependency injection is such a hot topic (and very useful). What do you all think? -john
Re: Design - Replacing Continuum's Web Framework
On 12/1/05, Brett Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Carlos Sanchez wrote: > > Acegi is based in servlet filters for the protection of urls, so the > > web framework used won't impact its use. > > That's great. Does it still require spring to be configured though? We > already have a massive download - I'd really like to reduce our > dependency set. You could be able to configure it in other way. Spring basically just call getters and setters. However some classes implement Spring interfaces and makes use of Spring tools. My first though and i think John agrees with me is let's include first Spring jars, and after worry about removing unneeded stuff. > > > I was in a project using JSF and seems that it's adoption is getting > > speed, with different implementations and a lot of extensions, > > utilities and tools. I've heard very good things about using > > Facelets+JSF to create components, and also about Spring MVC, but > > seems to me that people using Spring MVC is moving to JSF. > > I've heard a lot of negative points about its use without tools support > too. However I haven't done the necessary investigation. I flicked > through some examples and found the pages almost illegible for the > number of tags for a simple form, and haven't really seen an example of > templating (perhaps that is meant to be external?) > Yes, the spec by itself is not a good idea, you should use tools available. MyFaces provides some cool stuff, new components,... There are emerging a lot of projects surrounding JSF I suggest this read http://jroller.com/page/RickHigh > Although I don't have experience with either Spring MVC or WebWork, at > least with an action framework and JSP/velocity its a bit familiar - I'd > be worried about the learning curve of JSF as a barrier to contribution. > I get the feeling WW will be easy to learn for your average struts > veteran :) > I don't find it that difficult, and I think in a year new people will stop learning Struts, and go for JSF. I'm pretty sure that a high perecent of people willing to help will be *new* people, from universities and so, more than *old* people > Of those, WW seems the best choice to me as it is coming to Apache and > is the more mature solution, and probably most familiar wrt summit. > > I'd also endorse the use of sitemesh. That is a servlet filter that sits > in front of the app to "skin" it. It's very fast, and easy to use. There's really good integration between myfaces and tiles, it composes tha pages transparently for you. > > Cheers, > Brett >
Re: Design - Replacing Continuum's Web Framework
Carlos Sanchez wrote: > Acegi is based in servlet filters for the protection of urls, so the > web framework used won't impact its use. That's great. Does it still require spring to be configured though? We already have a massive download - I'd really like to reduce our dependency set. > I was in a project using JSF and seems that it's adoption is getting > speed, with different implementations and a lot of extensions, > utilities and tools. I've heard very good things about using > Facelets+JSF to create components, and also about Spring MVC, but > seems to me that people using Spring MVC is moving to JSF. I've heard a lot of negative points about its use without tools support too. However I haven't done the necessary investigation. I flicked through some examples and found the pages almost illegible for the number of tags for a simple form, and haven't really seen an example of templating (perhaps that is meant to be external?) Although I don't have experience with either Spring MVC or WebWork, at least with an action framework and JSP/velocity its a bit familiar - I'd be worried about the learning curve of JSF as a barrier to contribution. I get the feeling WW will be easy to learn for your average struts veteran :) Of those, WW seems the best choice to me as it is coming to Apache and is the more mature solution, and probably most familiar wrt summit. I'd also endorse the use of sitemesh. That is a servlet filter that sits in front of the app to "skin" it. It's very fast, and easy to use. Cheers, Brett
Re: Design - Replacing Continuum's Web Framework
Acegi is based in servlet filters for the protection of urls, so the web framework used won't impact its use. Are you planning protecting just urls or any other stuff? acegi can do authorization and authentication at class, method and instance level too, but I think that's only needed in a few types of applications. I was in a project using JSF and seems that it's adoption is getting speed, with different implementations and a lot of extensions, utilities and tools. I've heard very good things about using Facelets+JSF to create components, and also about Spring MVC, but seems to me that people using Spring MVC is moving to JSF. My 2 cents On 12/1/05, John Casey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > We've been talking about this for quite awhile in various channels, and > I wanted to take a few minutes and formalize the discussion. I'll > capture the highlights of this discussion in the wiki afterwards. I'll > start by posting my own thoughts, and let you all respond. > > Up to this point, Continuum has been built on a web framework called > Summit, which is part of the Plexus project, and using Velocity as the > page rendering technology. Summit is still a very young project, and as > a result has its problems. Given the proliferation of web frameworks out > there, it seems natural to wonder whether we couldn't find something > more mainstream and mature that will fit our needs. > > The key goal here is to make the web tier as easy to understand as > possible by the widest possible audience, without sacrificing anything > in the way of quality. To that end, criteria might include: > > * tool support > * maturity in the form of multiple final releases (or at least one) > * good integration with JSP (it's the most widely-used rendering > technology out there for java) > * ready availability of good documentation > * integration with a decent security library (think acegi) > * others? > > Another big concern is that we need to be able to make this web > framework integrate with Plexus without too much funny business. I don't > expect that to be a big problem, but worth mentioning. > > I know that a certain amount of work has been done by Trygve and > Emmanuel to get WebWork running inside Plexus. Is this the best > framework? A quick check of Amazon showed three books, only one of which > is completely concerned with WW. SpringMVC might be another option, > since it has probably the most natural integration with Acegi. There is > a certain amount of overlap between Spring and Plexus that we'd probably > have to map with a custom Spring container or something, but that's > likely to be everywhere, since dependency injection is such a hot topic > (and very useful). > > What do you all think? > > -john >
Design - Replacing Continuum's Web Framework
Hi everyone, We've been talking about this for quite awhile in various channels, and I wanted to take a few minutes and formalize the discussion. I'll capture the highlights of this discussion in the wiki afterwards. I'll start by posting my own thoughts, and let you all respond. Up to this point, Continuum has been built on a web framework called Summit, which is part of the Plexus project, and using Velocity as the page rendering technology. Summit is still a very young project, and as a result has its problems. Given the proliferation of web frameworks out there, it seems natural to wonder whether we couldn't find something more mainstream and mature that will fit our needs. The key goal here is to make the web tier as easy to understand as possible by the widest possible audience, without sacrificing anything in the way of quality. To that end, criteria might include: * tool support * maturity in the form of multiple final releases (or at least one) * good integration with JSP (it's the most widely-used rendering technology out there for java) * ready availability of good documentation * integration with a decent security library (think acegi) * others? Another big concern is that we need to be able to make this web framework integrate with Plexus without too much funny business. I don't expect that to be a big problem, but worth mentioning. I know that a certain amount of work has been done by Trygve and Emmanuel to get WebWork running inside Plexus. Is this the best framework? A quick check of Amazon showed three books, only one of which is completely concerned with WW. SpringMVC might be another option, since it has probably the most natural integration with Acegi. There is a certain amount of overlap between Spring and Plexus that we'd probably have to map with a custom Spring container or something, but that's likely to be everywhere, since dependency injection is such a hot topic (and very useful). What do you all think? -john
