[Callers] Re: Does P swings (across set) work for you?

[Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers]

One of my go-to dances for beginning contra dancers has everyone swinging
their partner in the center of the set at the same time. It works fine.
Before I start teaching the dance, I make sure that the dancers spread out
up and down the set so that they have enough room. (If the hall were too
crowded for them to spread out that much, then of course I wouldn't do that
dance.)

Jacob

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 9:31 PM Allison Jonjak via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> In my experience, two hand turns can (by dancers with their wits about
> them) have dynamic radii--as in, you can have your arms fully spread when
> you have room, or you can tighten in your elbows when you don't. With
> experienced dancers you keep 'weight' the same in both of these
> configurations: (I say both but of course it can be anywhere along this
> spectrum.)
> [image: image.png]
> red stars = dancers, green = their arms, with green dot = the held hands
>
> So in ECD all couples can two-hand turn in the middle with a tight radius,
> and no collisions.
>
> (anyone who dances ECD more than me should definitely correct me here!)
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 5:58 PM Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi, John.
>>
>> I do think it's interesting that (North American) contra rules are that
>> both couples swinging in the middle at once is too crowded, but (North
>> American) ECD  is totally fine with everybody doing two-hand turns (which
>> have a bigger radius) at once, and a Community Dances Manual dance like "Up
>> the Sides and Down the Middle" is fine with having five couples swinging in
>> the middle at once.  ECD typically uses up more space than contra (my rule
>> of thumb is 30sqft per dancer for ECD, 24 for contra, partly because ECD
>> does fall back, come forward and contra does forward and back) but how
>> different in size can sets formed by hands four, sometimes by the same
>> dancers, be?
>>
>> --  Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: John Sweeney via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 3:48 PM
>> To: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> Subject: [Callers] Re: Does P swings (across set) work for you?
>>
>> Hi Emily,
>> You say, “Can get away with in in longways dances but contras are a bit
>> tighter”.   Hmm… contras ARE longways dances!  How much space you need
>> depends on the dance, not the genre.  A dance like Bases Loaded is a
>> contra, but definitely needs a bit more space up and down the room.
>>
>> Happy dancing,
>>John
>>
>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
>> 07802 940 574
>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>> ___
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>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> --
> Allison Jonjak
> allisonjon...@gmail.com
> allisonjonjak.com
>
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[Callers] Re: Does P swings (across set) work for you?

[Allison Jonjak via Contra Callers]

In my experience, two hand turns can (by dancers with their wits about
them) have dynamic radii--as in, you can have your arms fully spread when
you have room, or you can tighten in your elbows when you don't. With
experienced dancers you keep 'weight' the same in both of these
configurations: (I say both but of course it can be anywhere along this
spectrum.)
[image: image.png]
red stars = dancers, green = their arms, with green dot = the held hands

So in ECD all couples can two-hand turn in the middle with a tight radius,
and no collisions.

(anyone who dances ECD more than me should definitely correct me here!)

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 5:58 PM Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi, John.
>
> I do think it's interesting that (North American) contra rules are that
> both couples swinging in the middle at once is too crowded, but (North
> American) ECD  is totally fine with everybody doing two-hand turns (which
> have a bigger radius) at once, and a Community Dances Manual dance like "Up
> the Sides and Down the Middle" is fine with having five couples swinging in
> the middle at once.  ECD typically uses up more space than contra (my rule
> of thumb is 30sqft per dancer for ECD, 24 for contra, partly because ECD
> does fall back, come forward and contra does forward and back) but how
> different in size can sets formed by hands four, sometimes by the same
> dancers, be?
>
> --  Alan
>
>
>
> 
> From: John Sweeney via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 3:48 PM
> To: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Does P swings (across set) work for you?
>
> Hi Emily,
> You say, “Can get away with in in longways dances but contras are a bit
> tighter”.   Hmm… contras ARE longways dances!  How much space you need
> depends on the dance, not the genre.  A dance like Bases Loaded is a
> contra, but definitely needs a bit more space up and down the room.
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
> ___
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
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>


-- 
Allison Jonjak
allisonjon...@gmail.com
allisonjonjak.com
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[Callers] looking for Bob Isaacs dance

[Laur via Contra Callers]

>From Here To Infinity

Laurie P
~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from 
life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~___
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[Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[jim saxe via Contra Callers]

Laurie,

I checked out the video you mentioned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc

and the music seemed quite quite danceable, as I would expect from the duo in 
the video, Patt and Possum (Patt Plunkett and Charlie "Possum" Walden), and 
suitable for the general run of contra dances. If it's not working for your 
local dancers, I'm inclined to wonder whether your local band's arrangement is 
different in a way that impairs danceability. Could they be playing too fast or 
too slow? Could they be using an odd arrangement of parts so that a distinctive 
bit of the music keeps coming at different points in the figure? Could the 
rhythm player(s) and melody player(s) sometimes both be playing creative 
variations at the same time, so the dancers have no anchor to keep then on 
phrase?

Alan Winston mentioned finding notes on "two dances that call out Beaumont Rag 
as a suitable tune," namely "Balance the Star" and "Colin's Carnival Ride". 
I'll note that the parts of those dances that I think fit the tune "Beaumont 
Rag" particularly well are the double balances in the A parts of "Balance the 
Star" and the wave-of-4 balance at the and of B1 in "Colin's Carnival Ride." 
However, I'll repeat that the tune, suitably played, should be perfectly fine 
for a generic contra dance.

Unfortunately, the video with Patt and Possum doesn't show the dancers, but 
here's a video of Gene Hubert's dance "Butter" with The McKenzies playing a 
medley of rags. "Beaumont Rag" is the last tune in the medley, and they switch 
into it at about 5:28.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOYAMcYVBg

--Jim

> On Apr 14, 2023, at 4:05 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just searched my on-disk notes, and discovered two dances that call out 
> Beaumont Rag as a suitable tune.
> 
> Balance the Star by the McLain family.  A Sicilian Circle,. suitable for 
> beginners
> Notes here:   
> https://www.library.unh.edu/special/forms/rpdlw/syllabus2013.pdf#page=17
> 
> 
> "Colin's Carnival Ride" by Rick Mohr, a more intermediate-level dance.
> 
> Notes here: https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=144
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> -- Alan
> 
> 
> From: Laur via Contra Callers 
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 2:19 PM
> To: Jeff Kaufman
> Cc: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes
> 
> its a RAG, Sorry. I finally remembered - ... Beaumont Rag. they play it a 
> little less bluegrassy than I can find on YouTube. This is close - Here's the 
> tune (not the players) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc
> 
> 
>  Are there any other dances you could think that would fit?
> 
> 
> I think this dance by Ridge Kennedy can fit it. tempo will be key. And thanks 
> to the list from a few years back for sharing it-
> 
> Ragtime Sammy - Ridge Kennedy
> 
> A1   Star Right hands across
> Star Left  hands across
> A2   Gents turn back over Rt. Shoulder (peel off)
> Walk around Ngh
> Ngh Swing
> B1   Circle Left 3/4
> Partner Swing
> B2   Ladies Almd Right 1-1/2
> Ngh Almd Left 1-1/2
> 
> 
> laurie P
> 
> 
> ~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from 
> life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~
> 
> 
> On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EDT, Laur via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. 
> I’ll share when I find.
> 
> L
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Laurie,
> 
> Any chance you could share the tune or a recording?  "Jazz" is a very wide 
> genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving 
> advice to matching dances to "fiddle music".
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers 
> mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
>  wrote:
> As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for 
> contra dances, I have found that dances that are a bit marchy 
> (down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and bouncier dances (lots of 
> balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some square 
> dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc) Conversely, 
> very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
> 
> That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, 
> singable melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. 
> Many swing tunes - like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a 
> double-time feel - that swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used 
> tunes like "Autumn Leaves" which are more of a straight swing feel, more 
> relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems to work with bouncy and marchy 
> dances; it's just a different

[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers]

Louise --

"Caller's Box" has separate entries for gate and hand cast, but hand cast says 
"Very similar to a gate" and the gate entry says "Very similar to hand cast."   
So you're not alone.

The caller's box gate description is  ":Two people face the same direction, 
hold nearest hands, and pivot around the central point. One person backs up 
while the other person walks forwards."

(I think of a hand cast as bringing one of the people around (usually 3/4) 
while the other is more of a post, and a gate as more mutual, with each side 
traversing the same distance, but I don't know if that's universal.)

-- Alan


From: Louise Siddons via Contra Callers 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 1:02 PM
To: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

Re: Amy’s question about a gate:

Is a gate the same as a hand cast to anyone except me?

Jerome: let me know how it goes!

Louise.

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[Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[Laur via Contra Callers]

Awesome thanks. 
Laurie 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 14, 2023, 7:05 PM, Winston, Alan P. 
 wrote:

Just searched my on-disk notes, and discovered two dances that call out 
Beaumont Rag as a suitable tune.

Balance the Star by the McLain family.  A Sicilian Circle,. suitable for 
beginners
Notes here:  
https://www.library.unh.edu/special/forms/rpdlw/syllabus2013.pdf#page=17


"Colin's Carnival Ride" by Rick Mohr, a more intermediate-level dance.

Notes here: https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=144

Hope this helps!

-- Alan


From: Laur via Contra Callers 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 2:19 PM
To: Jeff Kaufman
Cc: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

its a RAG, Sorry. I finally remembered - ... Beaumont Rag. they play it a 
little less bluegrassy than I can find on YouTube. This is close - Here's the 
tune (not the players) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc


  Are there any other dances you could think that would fit?


I think this dance by Ridge Kennedy can fit it. tempo will be key. And thanks 
to the list from a few years back for sharing it-

Ragtime Sammy - Ridge Kennedy

A1  Star Right hands across
    Star Left  hands across
A2  Gents turn back over Rt. Shoulder (peel off)
    Walk around Ngh
    Ngh Swing
B1  Circle Left 3/4
    Partner Swing
B2  Ladies Almd Right 1-1/2
    Ngh Almd Left 1-1/2


laurie P


~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from 
life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~


On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EDT, Laur via Contra Callers 
 wrote:


I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. 
I’ll share when I find.

L


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman  
wrote:

Hi Laurie,

Any chance you could share the tune or a recording?  "Jazz" is a very wide 
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving 
advice to matching dances to "fiddle music".

Jeff



On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
 wrote:
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra 
dances, I have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single 
promenades, etc) and bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with 
swing tunes. And of course, some square dances are written to go with swing 
tunes ("Just Because", etc) Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't 
work quite as well.

That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, 
singable melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. 
Many swing tunes - like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a 
double-time feel - that swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used 
tunes like "Autumn Leaves" which are more of a straight swing feel, more 
relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems to work with bouncy and marchy 
dances; it's just a different vibe.

Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.

Hope that helps, Chuck

From: Laur via Contra Callers 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: 
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes

We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number 
- and as far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by 
the tune when it comes out because the dances don’t work with it.

I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask 
them to play it when I choose that dance

I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that 
goes well with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.

Thought?

Any others??

Laurie Pietravalle
West Michigan

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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[Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers]

Just searched my on-disk notes, and discovered two dances that call out 
Beaumont Rag as a suitable tune.

Balance the Star by the McLain family.  A Sicilian Circle,. suitable for 
beginners
Notes here:   
https://www.library.unh.edu/special/forms/rpdlw/syllabus2013.pdf#page=17


"Colin's Carnival Ride" by Rick Mohr, a more intermediate-level dance.

Notes here: https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=144

Hope this helps!

-- Alan


From: Laur via Contra Callers 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 2:19 PM
To: Jeff Kaufman
Cc: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

its a RAG, Sorry. I finally remembered - ... Beaumont Rag. they play it a 
little less bluegrassy than I can find on YouTube. This is close - Here's the 
tune (not the players) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc


  Are there any other dances you could think that would fit?


I think this dance by Ridge Kennedy can fit it. tempo will be key. And thanks 
to the list from a few years back for sharing it-

Ragtime Sammy - Ridge Kennedy

A1   Star Right hands across
 Star Left  hands across
A2   Gents turn back over Rt. Shoulder (peel off)
 Walk around Ngh
 Ngh Swing
B1   Circle Left 3/4
 Partner Swing
B2   Ladies Almd Right 1-1/2
 Ngh Almd Left 1-1/2


laurie P


~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from 
life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~


On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EDT, Laur via Contra Callers 
 wrote:


I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. 
I’ll share when I find.

L


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman  
wrote:

Hi Laurie,

Any chance you could share the tune or a recording?  "Jazz" is a very wide 
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving 
advice to matching dances to "fiddle music".

Jeff



On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
 wrote:
As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra 
dances, I have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single 
promenades, etc) and bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with 
swing tunes. And of course, some square dances are written to go with swing 
tunes ("Just Because", etc) Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't 
work quite as well.

That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, 
singable melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. 
Many swing tunes - like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a 
double-time feel - that swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used 
tunes like "Autumn Leaves" which are more of a straight swing feel, more 
relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems to work with bouncy and marchy 
dances; it's just a different vibe.

Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.

Hope that helps, Chuck

From: Laur via Contra Callers 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: 
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes

We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number 
- and as far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by 
the tune when it comes out because the dances don’t work with it.

I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask 
them to play it when I choose that dance

I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that 
goes well with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.

Thought?

Any others??

Laurie Pietravalle
West Michigan

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[John Sweeney via Contra Callers]

Hi Amy,

  “Hand Cast”, “Gate”, “Wheel Around” (which I am surprised is not 
in https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/Glossary.htm),  and “Turn 
As A Couple” are all fundamentally the same move.

 

  Two people stand side by side, facing the same way, and hold the 
nearest hand. They rotate staying in line with each other.

 

  The only questions are where the pivot point is and how far you 
turn.  Wheel Around and Turn As A Couple usually mean that the pivot point is 
the joined hands and that you turn 180 degrees.  Hand Cast and Gate usually 
mean that the pivot point is one of the dancers and the rotation can be 180, 
270 or 360 degrees, depending on the dance.

 

  Of course, nowadays most contra dancers told to Turn As A Couple 
will do a California Twirl instead.

 

  And “Hand Cast” can be done with arms around each other’s waists, 
or by, for example, #2s facing up and offering an elbow for the #1s to hook 
into so that they can be whirled around the corner – more likely when the #1s 
are galloping up the set and need help to redirect their momentum!

 

Happy dancing,

   John   



John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
   

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[Callers] Re: Does P swings (across set) work for you?

[Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers]

Hi, John.

I do think it's interesting that (North American) contra rules are that both 
couples swinging in the middle at once is too crowded, but (North American) ECD 
 is totally fine with everybody doing two-hand turns (which have a bigger 
radius) at once, and a Community Dances Manual dance like "Up the Sides and 
Down the Middle" is fine with having five couples swinging in the middle at 
once.  ECD typically uses up more space than contra (my rule of thumb is 30sqft 
per dancer for ECD, 24 for contra, partly because ECD does fall back, come 
forward and contra does forward and back) but how different in size can sets 
formed by hands four, sometimes by the same dancers, be?

--  Alan




From: John Sweeney via Contra Callers 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 3:48 PM
To: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: Does P swings (across set) work for you?

Hi Emily,
You say, “Can get away with in in longways dances but contras are a bit 
tighter”.   Hmm… contras ARE longways dances!  How much space you need depends 
on the dance, not the genre.  A dance like Bases Loaded is a contra, but 
definitely needs a bit more space up and down the room.

Happy dancing,
   John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
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[Callers] Re: Does P swings (across set) work for you?

[John Sweeney via Contra Callers]

Hi Emily,

You say, “Can get away with in in longways dances but contras are a bit 
tighter”.   Hmm… contras ARE longways dances!  How much space you need depends 
on the dance, not the genre.  A dance like Bases Loaded is a contra, but 
definitely needs a bit more space up and down the room.

 

Happy dancing,

   John   



John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent 

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[Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[John Sweeney via Contra Callers]

Hi,

  Any dance goes to any tune.  The genre is not important.  What is 
important is the phrasing, the length, the time signature and the tempo.

 

Happy dancing,

   John   



John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
   

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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers]

Louise,
In the B2, is the allemande with a shadow (same one each time)? On the same
side of the set as the partner swing?
Jerome

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 4:02 PM Louise Siddons via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Re: Amy’s question about a gate:
>
> Is a gate the same as a hand cast to anyone except me?
>
> Jerome: let me know how it goes!
>
> Louise.
>
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[Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[Laur via Contra Callers]

its a RAG, Sorry. I finally remembered - ... Beaumont Rag. they play it a 
little less bluegrassy than I can find on YouTube. This is close - Here's the 
tune (not the players) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc

  Are there any other dances you could think that would fit? 

I think this dance by Ridge Kennedy can fit it. tempo will be key. And thanks 
to the list from a few years back for sharing it- 
Ragtime Sammy - Ridge Kennedy
A1   Star Right hands across     Star Left  hands across
A2   Gents turn back over Rt. Shoulder (peel off)     Walk around Ngh
     Ngh Swing
B1   Circle Left 3/4     Partner Swing
B2   Ladies Almd Right 1-1/2     Ngh Almd Left 1-1/2 


laurie P

~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from 
life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~ 

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EDT, Laur via Contra Callers 
 wrote:  
 
 I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. 
I’ll share when I find. 
L


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman  
wrote:

Hi Laurie,
Any chance you could share the tune or a recording?  "Jazz" is a very wide 
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving 
advice to matching dances to "fiddle music".
Jeff



On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers 
 wrote:

As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra 
dances, I have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single 
promenades, etc) and bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with 
swing tunes. And of course, some square dances are written to go with swing 
tunes ("Just Because", etc) Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't 
work quite as well. 
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, 
singable melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. 
Many swing tunes - like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a 
double-time feel - that swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used 
tunes like "Autumn Leaves" which are more of a straight swing feel, more 
relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems to work with bouncy and marchy 
dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your 
planning. 
Hope that helps, Chuck  From: Laur via Contra Callers 

Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net 
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes We have a band in the 
area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as far as I can 
ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by the tune when it 
comes out because the dances don’t work with it. 
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask 
them to play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that 
goes well with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying. 
Thought?
Any others??

Laurie PietravalleWest Michigan

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[Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[Laur via Contra Callers]

I’ve been trying to find the video someone shared with them playing the tune. 
I’ll share when I find. 
L


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 14, 2023, 3:56 PM, Jeff Kaufman  
wrote:

Hi Laurie,
Any chance you could share the tune or a recording?  "Jazz" is a very wide 
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving 
advice to matching dances to "fiddle music".
Jeff



On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers 
 wrote:

As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra 
dances, I have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single 
promenades, etc) and bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with 
swing tunes. And of course, some square dances are written to go with swing 
tunes ("Just Because", etc) Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't 
work quite as well. 
That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, 
singable melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. 
Many swing tunes - like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a 
double-time feel - that swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used 
tunes like "Autumn Leaves" which are more of a straight swing feel, more 
relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems to work with bouncy and marchy 
dances; it's just a different vibe.
Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your 
planning. 
Hope that helps, Chuck  From: Laur via Contra Callers 

Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net 
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes We have a band in the 
area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number - and as far as I can 
ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by the tune when it 
comes out because the dances don’t work with it. 
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask 
them to play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that 
goes well with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying. 
Thought?
Any others??

Laurie PietravalleWest Michigan

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[Callers] Re: Does P swings (across set) work for you?

[Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers]

Emily--

Swings in the middle work fine if there's only one couple doing them.

In your Jefferson and Liberty (which is Dudley Briggs' "Jefferson Reel" rather 
than the historical Jefferson and LIberty), the 1s don't swing at all and the 
2s only swing if they cheat while the 1s are going down the outside and back.  
(Which is fine).  Anyway, no worries on vertical space in that one.

In "Taking Liberties" I'd address your concern by hvaing the 2s do the cheat 
swing and having the 1s only swing (but that still makes a swing that lasts 
through the entire B2, which is a long time for the 2s to just stand there and 
also a long time to swing - usually there's a balance in a 16-count swing.  It 
makes sense for it to be the ones because it's awkward for the 2s, who've just 
been popped through the arch, to turn and face each and get organized for the 
swing, while the 1s arch action leaves them already holding a hand and not 
having to fight momentum to get into the swing.  (A balance would be awkward, 
though.)

It looks like Bob Dalsemer's "Jefferson Revisited" addresses concernsl a 
different way.  It replaces "down the outside and back" with "neighbor dosido, 
neighbor swing", which means the swings are on the side.  No partner swing in 
the dance.

https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=10515

 Hope this helps!

-- Alan


From: Emily Addison via Contra Callers 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 12:37 PM
To: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Does P swings (across set) work for you?

Hi All,

I've been looking at a couple of simple simple contras.

One is Jefferson and Liberty (below) and the other is Taking Liberties with 
Jefferson.

I do like the fact that the stars are in Taking Liberties. However, in my 
somewhat limited calling career, I've haven't found that swings in the 
middle/across the set have really worked well in contras.  (Can get away with 
in in longways dances but contras are a bit tighter).

I just don't get enough calling practice to be testing this stuff out a lot.

I'm looking for other perspectives on this!  What do you think?

Thanks!
Emily in Ottawa

Jefferson & Liberty (improper)
④ L
④R

RH★
LH★

1s down outside … eye contact!
And back up… step in between the 2s
 ALT: 2s swing partner in middle  something fun here?
Finish with 1s in middle, a N in outer hands �C all face down
Down hall 4 in line
Back up … as doing so 1s arch & 2s duck thru

…to NEW N

Taking Liberties with Jefferson (improper)
④ L
④R

1s down outside … eye contact!
And back up… step in between the 2s
 ALT: 2s swing partner in middle  something fun here?
Finish with 1s in middle, a N in outer hands �C all face down
Down hall 4 in line
Back up … as doing so 1s arch & 2s duck thru
P Swing


[
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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Louise Siddons via Contra Callers]

Re: Amy’s question about a gate:

Is a gate the same as a hand cast to anyone except me? 

Jerome: let me know how it goes!

Louise.

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[Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers]

Hi Laurie,

Any chance you could share the tune or a recording?  "Jazz" is a very wide
genre, and giving advice for matching dances to jazz is sort of like giving
advice to matching dances to "fiddle music".

Jeff



On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for
> contra dances, I have found that dances that are a bit marchy
> (down-the-halls, single promenades, etc) and bouncier dances (lots of
> balances) seem to work best with swing tunes. And of course, some square
> dances are written to go with swing tunes ("Just Because", etc) Conversely,
> very flowing, smooth dances often don't work quite as well.
>
> That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing,
> singable melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure.
> Many swing tunes - like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a
> double-time feel - that swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used
> tunes like "Autumn Leaves" which are more of a straight swing feel, more
> relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems to work with bouncy and marchy
> dances; it's just a different vibe.
>
> Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your
> planning.
>
> Hope that helps, Chuck
> --
> *From:* Laur via Contra Callers 
> *Sent:* Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
> *To:* contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Subject:* [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes
>
> We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune
> number - and as far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little
> surprised by the tune when it comes out because the dances don’t work with
> it.
>
> I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and
> then ask them to play it when I choose that dance
>
> I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here
> Ragtime Sammy that goes well with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it
> may be too dizzying.
>
> Thought?
>
> Any others??
>
> Laurie Pietravalle
> West Michigan
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers]

Amy,
I would describe a gate as a connected turn in which both dancers start
facing the same direction (in this case, into the set). One dancer dances
forward while the other backpedals, with their joined hands being the pivot
of the turn. And can I emphasize again the importance of the connection
between dancers, which can make or break the satisfaction of the move.

Louise,
This looks very fun and I plan to use it sometime very soon. Cheers!

Jerome

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 3:22 PM Amy Wimmer via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Laura, I plead ignorance here. Will you please describe/define "gate?"
>
> Thanks,
> -Amy
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 11:18 AM Louise Siddons via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jerome (and all),
>>
>> I have heard the left-petronella referred to as a “retronella” — which
>> may be a useful search term, and also produces some delight when dancers
>> hear it for the first time.
>>
>> And although I worry US dancers would rush the gates and therefore find
>> this a bit unsatisfying (not to mention, no neighbour swing! Which for some
>> dancers is actually a positive...), I’ve had good feedback here in the UK
>> about my dance, There and Back:
>>
>> There and Back
>> Louise Siddons, 2022
>> Becket
>> A1 In a ring, balance and spin to the right; gate clockwise on the side
>> (fill the music!)
>> A2 In a ring, balance and spin to the left; gate anticlockwise on the side
>> B1 Chain (Rh; those moving fwd out of the courtesy turn end slightly
>> inside the set and look right); with the next, right shoulder 'round 1.5
>> B2 With your partner, balance and swing
>>
>> Louise.
>> ___
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>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Allison Jonjak via Contra Callers]

http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/contra/contra-modern/555-circle-of-love-by-susan-kevra-duple-inproper


The dance archive here, and searching a figure name, is a great resource.
Gates come from English dances as far as I know, but I have been able to
teach them to my "barn dance" crowd for simple dances like "Jefferson's
Remorse."

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 2:22 PM Amy Wimmer via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Laura, I plead ignorance here. Will you please describe/define "gate?"
>
> Thanks,
> -Amy
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 11:18 AM Louise Siddons via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jerome (and all),
>>
>> I have heard the left-petronella referred to as a “retronella” — which
>> may be a useful search term, and also produces some delight when dancers
>> hear it for the first time.
>>
>> And although I worry US dancers would rush the gates and therefore find
>> this a bit unsatisfying (not to mention, no neighbour swing! Which for some
>> dancers is actually a positive...), I’ve had good feedback here in the UK
>> about my dance, There and Back:
>>
>> There and Back
>> Louise Siddons, 2022
>> Becket
>> A1 In a ring, balance and spin to the right; gate clockwise on the side
>> (fill the music!)
>> A2 In a ring, balance and spin to the left; gate anticlockwise on the side
>> B1 Chain (Rh; those moving fwd out of the courtesy turn end slightly
>> inside the set and look right); with the next, right shoulder 'round 1.5
>> B2 With your partner, balance and swing
>>
>> Louise.
>> ___
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> ___
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-- 
Allison Jonjak
allisonjon...@gmail.com
allisonjonjak.com
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[Callers] Does P swings (across set) work for you?

[Emily Addison via Contra Callers]

Hi All,

I've been looking at a couple of simple simple contras.

One is Jefferson and Liberty (below) and the other is Taking Liberties with
Jefferson.

I do like the fact that the stars are in Taking Liberties. However, in my
somewhat limited calling career, I've haven't found that swings in the
middle/across the set have really worked well in contras.  (Can get away
with in in longways dances but contras are a bit tighter).

I just don't get enough calling practice to be testing this stuff out a lot.

*I'm looking for other perspectives on this!  What do you think?*

Thanks!
Emily in Ottawa

Jefferson & Liberty (improper)

④ L

④R



RH★

LH★



1s down outside … eye contact!

And back up… step in between the 2s

 ALT: 2s swing partner in middle  something fun here?

Finish with 1s in middle, a N in outer hands – all face down

Down hall 4 in line

Back up … as doing so 1s arch & 2s duck thru



…to NEW N

Taking Liberties with Jefferson (improper)

④ L

④R



1s down outside … eye contact!

And back up… step in between the 2s

 ALT: 2s swing partner in middle  something fun here?

Finish with 1s in middle, a N in outer hands – all face down

Down hall 4 in line

Back up … as doing so 1s arch & 2s duck thru

P Swing




Virus-free.www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Amy Wimmer via Contra Callers]

Laura, I plead ignorance here. Will you please describe/define "gate?"

Thanks,
-Amy

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 11:18 AM Louise Siddons via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Jerome (and all),
>
> I have heard the left-petronella referred to as a “retronella” — which may
> be a useful search term, and also produces some delight when dancers hear
> it for the first time.
>
> And although I worry US dancers would rush the gates and therefore find
> this a bit unsatisfying (not to mention, no neighbour swing! Which for some
> dancers is actually a positive...), I’ve had good feedback here in the UK
> about my dance, There and Back:
>
> There and Back
> Louise Siddons, 2022
> Becket
> A1 In a ring, balance and spin to the right; gate clockwise on the side
> (fill the music!)
> A2 In a ring, balance and spin to the left; gate anticlockwise on the side
> B1 Chain (Rh; those moving fwd out of the courtesy turn end slightly
> inside the set and look right); with the next, right shoulder 'round 1.5
> B2 With your partner, balance and swing
>
> Louise.
> ___
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
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>
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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Louise Siddons via Contra Callers]

Hi Jerome (and all),

I have heard the left-petronella referred to as a “retronella” — which may be a 
useful search term, and also produces some delight when dancers hear it for the 
first time.

And although I worry US dancers would rush the gates and therefore find this a 
bit unsatisfying (not to mention, no neighbour swing! Which for some dancers is 
actually a positive...), I’ve had good feedback here in the UK about my dance, 
There and Back:

There and Back
Louise Siddons, 2022
Becket
A1 In a ring, balance and spin to the right; gate clockwise on the side (fill 
the music!)
A2 In a ring, balance and spin to the left; gate anticlockwise on the side
B1 Chain (Rh; those moving fwd out of the courtesy turn end slightly inside the 
set and look right); with the next, right shoulder 'round 1.5
B2 With your partner, balance and swing

Louise.
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[Callers] Re: Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[Charles Abell via Contra Callers]

As a caller and a dance musician who sometimes plays jazz standards for contra 
dances, I have found that dances that are a bit marchy (down-the-halls, single 
promenades, etc) and bouncier dances (lots of balances) seem to work best with 
swing tunes. And of course, some square dances are written to go with swing 
tunes ("Just Because", etc) Conversely, very flowing, smooth dances often don't 
work quite as well.

That said, the nature of the swing tune is also important. Clear phrasing, 
singable melodies are helpful, and of course you need the 32-bar structure. 
Many swing tunes - like, say, "Bye Bye Blackbird", will have more of a 
double-time feel - that swinging, boom-chuck rhythm. But we have also used 
tunes like "Autumn Leaves" which are more of a straight swing feel, more 
relaxed and flowing. Either, though, seems to work with bouncy and marchy 
dances; it's just a different vibe.

Listening to some Elixir recordings might provide some fodder for your planning.

Hope that helps, Chuck

From: Laur via Contra Callers 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 5:46 PM
To: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net 
Subject: [Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes

We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number 
- and as far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by 
the tune when it comes out because the dances don’t work with it.

I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask 
them to play it when I choose that dance

I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that 
goes well with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying.

Thought?

Any others??

Laurie Pietravalle
West Michigan

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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[Callers] Dances that go to swing dance tunes

[Laur via Contra Callers]

We have a band in the area that like to play kind of a jazzy swing tune number 
- and as far as I can ever remember callers are more than a little surprised by 
the tune when it comes out because the dances don’t work with it. 
I want to do is find a dance that goes with a swinging jazzy tune, and then ask 
them to play it when I choose that dance
I do have one dance I think might’ve been recommended here Ragtime Sammy that 
goes well with a rag. However I’m a little concerned it may be too dizzying. 
Thought?
Any others??

Laurie PietravalleWest Michigan

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers]

Michael,

That's it! Thanks!

I'll have to check out the others as well...

Jerome

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 12:57 PM Michael Dyck via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> On 2023-04-14 8:45 a.m., Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers wrote:
> > Hello Friends,
> >
> > I have called a dance that I cannot now find, it included a petronella
> turn
> > to the right and one to the left. I liked it because the unusual
> direction
> > is different for experienced dancers while easy for newish dancers.
> >
> > Can anyone recall seeing such a sequence?
> >
> > I thought it might be a Joseph Pimentel dance, but now I'm questioning
> > everything I ever thought I remembered.
>
> In the Caller's Box, petronella to the left is notated as
>"reverse petronella turn"
>
> https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/Glossary.htm#reverse-petronella-turn
>
> We've currently got 33 dances containing that figure, of which one is by
> Joseph Pimentel: "A Balanced Tern", from "The Goldcrest Collection".
>
> Its A1 is:
>  ring balance, petronella right
>  ring balance, petronella left
>
> So that might be the dance you're looking for.
>
> -Michael
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[Callers] Re: Dance with petronella right and left

[Michael Dyck via Contra Callers]

On 2023-04-14 8:45 a.m., Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers wrote:

Hello Friends,

I have called a dance that I cannot now find, it included a petronella turn 
to the right and one to the left. I liked it because the unusual direction 
is different for experienced dancers while easy for newish dancers.


Can anyone recall seeing such a sequence?

I thought it might be a Joseph Pimentel dance, but now I'm questioning 
everything I ever thought I remembered.


In the Caller's Box, petronella to the left is notated as
  "reverse petronella turn"
https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/Glossary.htm#reverse-petronella-turn

We've currently got 33 dances containing that figure, of which one is by 
Joseph Pimentel: "A Balanced Tern", from "The Goldcrest Collection".


Its A1 is:
ring balance, petronella right
ring balance, petronella left

So that might be the dance you're looking for.

-Michael
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[Callers] Dance with petronella right and left

[Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers]

Hello Friends,

I have called a dance that I cannot now find, it included a petronella turn
to the right and one to the left. I liked it because the unusual direction
is different for experienced dancers while easy for newish dancers.

Can anyone recall seeing such a sequence?

I thought it might be a Joseph Pimentel dance, but now I'm questioning
everything I ever thought I remembered.

Thanks!

Jerome Grisanti
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