Re: [Cooker] User says MDK 9.2 is a backward step and requests features
On Tuesday 18 November 2003 00:57, Luca Olivetti wrote: > Either remove .tuxracer/options or change data_dir to > "/usr/share/games/tuxracer/". (Yes, I know that you *shouldn't* have to > do it, but it'll make your grandson happy). Thank you VERY MUCH!! :-) Removing .tuxracer/options was enough. Sure Tux created new one by default on first start and now it works great. Besides, now I know how to change screen resolution for TuxRacer (it's simply written in options file, surprisingly in plaintext :) Some small clever guy of age 4 will be very happy when visiting us next time ;-) It's good to get accustomed to those penguins starting from small age, isn't it? :))) Harry
[Cooker] bugs.mandrakelinux.com hanging?
Mandrake Anthill http://bugs.mandrakelinux.com/ seems to hang up when trying to add comment to a bug or create new bug description. The bug itself is added but without any comments, then both Mozilla 1.6a and standard Konqueror waits long time and then gets timeout. Same thing when trying to add comment to an existing bug. For about last half hour (now 11pm GMT Nov.17, 2003) it is 100% reproducible behavior. Could somebody please kick the right server rack? ;-) Harry
Re: [Cooker] User says MDK 9.2 is a backward step and requests features
Wow, nice to see somebody from Twente NL, from Debian stronghold ;-) On Monday 17 November 2003 21:31, Simon Oosthoek wrote: > CRM == Customer Relationship Management??? Yes. > I don't know if that is such an important matter, compared to some other > problems Mandrake has (not talking about the financial matters, even) Part of CRM is to find out what drives customer loyalty and satisfaction and use the model to maintain and improve business. This what Deno did even not being CRM specialist, simply because he could intuitively deeply feel such things. Unfortunately Deno is back in Vienna and not anymore with Mandrake. (Big mistake in my opinion...) We all feel absence of Deno because there is no sufficient replacement in company (with all regards to people working there). For example, in Deno times it probably would not be possible to have _all_ mirror definitions for urpmi on club www pages *broken* for such a long time as it is now. > For me I'd say these were the priorities I'd like to see: > - work on almost any hardware or say it won't work during install. (I'm not > talking about LG's faults) I cannot worry about that with Mandrake. I think that hardware recognition and use is one of strong aspects of Mandrake Linux. LG scandal is IMHO simply bad luck - "shit happens" as we all know. Nobody can test all combinations of hardware components. After all LG has agreed it's their fault, and these dead drives are quite easily repairable. (I have one too :) Otherwise I have sometimes wondered what strange "hardware zoo" combinations are nevertheless correctly recognized by Mandrake installation. Well, I normally use PowerPack which has more drivers than download edition. > - Consistent configuration and hardware management tools These things get really better from version to version, except some quick decisions like with kdm... > - have one well tested desktop management system (KDE) that doesn't show > any obvious flaws noticable by average users Now this depends mostly from KDE people ;-) I do not know who is to blame about disappearing KDE 3.1.3 menus in MDK 9.2, but this is *major* source of disappointment and certainly very annoying behavior. At the moment my KDE has stopped to display active programs on tasklist, despite all checkmarks correct in KDE Control Center... . > - make sure basic applications are thoroughly tested for quality, stability > and performance Agree. That would be Good Thing. However good QC is expensive. Total QC is unreachable even for very big companies because of almost unpredictable human side of interaction with these applications. (Somehow I often manage to get very strange crashes and errors on windows machines I sometimes have to use at work... ;-) However, basic level of QC should involve at least confidence that all apps can be launched and start to work. My 4-year old grandson discovered yesterday that TuxRacer doesn't work anymore (in 9.2 with all current updates) and was very, very sad about that. Thanks God that at least Frozen Bubble was still OK ;-) > - security updates and installation sources are stable Agree. At least there _are_ security updates for Mandrake and they are mostly available. At least after some delay after e-mail announcing them... > Everything else is of course very important too, but when the basics are > more stable, the whole system is more tolerant for whatever else gets > installed. "Let it be, let it be..." :-) Harijs
Re: [Cooker] User says MDK 9.2 is a backward step and requests features
On Monday 17 November 2003 14:21, Buchan Milne wrote: > > Nope. Look, Buchan, even you didn't remember it right; > Actually I do, that is the way it is on 9.1 ;-). Even more confusing, isn't it? :) > > Control Center -> System -> Choose the Display Manager. Why this Login > > Window is called Display Manager there, is beyond my understanding. > > Technically, that is the correct term. KDE's terminology is wrong (and > why do they call it kdm and not klm?). One more principal thing is that distribution ought to be made for users, not to fight terminology or other semi-religious disputes. Who cares what is right theoretically or by historic reasons? User needs something understandable. This small window asking for username and password is named Login Window in almost every kind of system (and earlier on the text screen it used to be Login Screen). That's what it does: allows (or not) to Login. (Or Logon, depending on religion again ;-) What's wrong with calling window by it's functionality? Call simple things in simple way. KISS, it's old good working principle. > > on KDE Control Center -> System -> Login Manager. > Well, you need to choose which display manager you use (in MCC), and > after that you use the tools for the display manager to configure it. I understand this, but have you noticed that one and the same thing is named differently in both these places? > IMHO KDE is wrong, Mandrake is using the correct term. MDK should care more to put _understandable_ term. > Well, actually they should restart the dm service. Something broke in 9.2. Please register this at Anthill. I wouldn't be able to describe it in correct terms:) > > maybe somebody should at least make red light glowing brightly on traffic > > light icon leading to change of kdm... :-) > ??? In MCC -> System, the icon near "Choose the display manager" is traffic light device with red, yellow and green lights all off. What have traffic lights in common with choosing type of login window, is again beyond my understanding, but if red light would be shining bright _on_ it could make somebody feel there is danger to go further ;-) Much better would be, of course, to draw small login box there so to give some notion what it is really all about. > Since kdm is the default (at least on new installs, and AFAIK), you > should by default be able to get your hostname and clock back. Well... I am able now. I am learning somehow. Just the way as it happens sometimes is IMHO way too cruel for normal user coming from Windows world. Personally I will survive (I survived even JCL on IBM/360 and binary coding without any assembler when I was young :) > So, I think your analysis isn't totally correct. I don't even pretend it is. Just personal impressions. Thanks for reading them :-) I have all the time this strange feeling that Mandrake could do even much better with such a minimum of CRM efforts... Hope it will happen soon ;-) Harry
Re: [Cooker] User says MDK 9.2 is a backward step and requests features
On Monday 17 November 2003 02:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I guess you have mdkkdm. Use Mandrake Control Center->Hardware->Login > Manager (or similar) to change this. (This is a change from 9.0->9.1) Nope. Look, Buchan, even you didn't remember it right; what to speak about us mortals... For some unknown reason the way how to do this is Mandrake Control Center -> System -> Choose the Display Manager. Why this Login Window is called Display Manager there, is beyond my understanding. I for sure wouldn't find it myself in a lifetime but somebody told me on some list (don't remember, maybe even here on Cooker). This is _so_ confusing, specially because everything other related to this login window is specified on KDE Control Center -> System -> Login Manager. The Mighty Ones at Mandrake could IMHO at least put the same name in MCC, to make it a bit more understandable: Mandrake Control Center -> System -> Choose Login Manager. Certainly putting some more understandable icon for it could help as well, instead of quite cryptic traffic lights (!) like now. > I can't make out what the user is doing here. > kcontrol->Administration->Login Mangager? I am sure this works. Changing type of kdm now in 9.2 leads to following actions: if user confirms he allows to re-start kdm, current KDE session is abruptly terminated (without any warning to save your job etc.), X are terminated as well and user finds himself in black textmode fullscreen with login prompt. Certainly many of new users do not even know they can start graphic GUI again with startx, and are scared up to point of re-installing or something. Yeah, maybe somebody should at least make red light glowing brightly on traffic light icon leading to change of kdm... :-) > It seems the user has some X configuration issue. Nope. This seems to me being principal issue of how new things are introduced in MDK nowadays: somebody likes new thing better and wishfully thinks that everybody will. It gets never (or too less) tested how the user might get back the _old_ feature, and the procedure itself is often cryptic or even non-existant (like you can not avoid installing of bootsplash anymore). Nevertheless most people are quite conservative and for some reason want back things like they are used to. I for example wanted back correct hostname displayed on Login Screen, _and_ the clock ticking there ;-) Harry
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 6273] [Installation] bootsplash can not be unmarked in package list
Hi Buchan, Do you really think it is good to have anything (un)markable on installation package list that in fact cannot be unmarked (because it seems to be now specifically tied to all graphical environment)? What is doing "bootsplash" on this package list if it is now intended to be unmarkable? Keep it off the list and there will be no questions like mine. > > You can always 'rpm -e --nodeps bootsplash' if you want. Yes, thank you for advice (all of them). To be resistant to unwanted, imposed changes is certainly good incentive to learn more about Linux beyond initial users GUI experience :) > How about the desktop backgrounds? Wrong example. Bootsplash is in no way _necessary_ part of boot process. There is IMHO no any clear aim to make it mandatory, except of course writing Mandrake 9.2 on it (but it is written also during text boot). I have nothing against bootsplash if somebody likes it. But I have objection to have bootsplash forcefully imposed on all possible Mandrake users including me. Even to get rid of it I now need to install it in the first place (this "improvement" is true only starting with 9.2). Small step in the same direction as so painfully known program called "IE". Mind you I left Windows world partly because of such mandatory "features" imposed against my own will. And don't tell me that this long dependancy chain you presented cannot be corrected ;-) > binary, maybe initscripts should depend on bootsplash instead? Then we can > have it on servers too ;-). Actually you might be surprised how many Linux servers (including Mandrakes) have full-scale graphical environment installed and in use nowadays. Memory is cheap and CPU's are affordable. Admin's time and good perception of overall situation is much more expensive. Harry On Thursday 13 November 2003 18:17, [bgmilne] wrote: > http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6273 > > --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-11-13 17:17 > --- > > >> Mandatory installation(!) of any non-vital part of Mandrake GPL-ed > >> download distribution > > You can always 'rpm -e --nodeps bootsplash' if you want. > > >> is something definitely worth to be discussed as well. > > Bugzilla is the wrong place, try cooker. > > >> I do not consider such > >> a bit Orwellian thing to be "feature". > > How about the desktop backgrounds? Maybe you should request to have them > removed too, and we can have a blank screen instead. We could remove the X > patch too, so that instead of a blue background when starting X, we could > have the more conventional black/white diagonal hatching and hurt our eyes > looking at it until we log in. > > >> What additional _mandatory_ parts there > >> are for Mandrake 9.2? Any list of them? > > Sure, just diff the output from 'urpmq -d basessytem|sort' and 'urpmq -d > mandrake_desk|sort' > > You may find things like 'menu' and 'mdk-menu-messages' forced upon you. > > Actually, since the initscripts package actually calls the /sbin/splash > binary, maybe initscripts should depend on bootsplash instead? Then we can > have it on servers too ;-).
Re: [Cooker] Danger: Magazine with 9.2 with problematic kernel
On Monday 10 November 2003 00:27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] rakstija: > -getting the ISOs via some other means, and can't really complain until > official ISOs are out (which will address the LG issue). Are you sure that _official_ PowerPack DVD's which supposedly are alrady sent out contain version which is NOT harmful to LG drives? I should better know this for sure because I have LG drives on several machines and do not want them to be killed. Theoretical possibility to send them for repair remains only theoretical because shipment costs from my country would be several times bigger than cost of new drives themselves, which nevertheless also is quite a money here. Before asking about bug numbers, please remember that people were (and still are!! I tested right now) specifically discouraged to post new bugs on http://qa.mandrakesoft.com because it is meant only for Cooker. Instead, for 9.2 anyone was and is readdressed to non-existing host bugs.mandrakesoft.com OK, maybe it's obvious for gurus that anyone "should know" the right link http://bugs.mandrakelinux.com instead of clicking on link provided by Bugzilla "New Bug" page, however in these circumstances it still might be not right to ask how many bugs everyone has registered. Vote for bug 6301 first ;-) http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6301 Harry
Re: [Cooker] [Bug 6314] [urpmi] Wrong MD5SUM file in Mandrake 9.2 (FTP/Internet Install)
On Saturday 08 November 2003 18:59, [pascal.terjan] rakstija: > --- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2003-11-08 17:59 > --- The correct URL is http://bugs.mandrakelinux.com/ Yep, and there is even bug for that - 6301 Bug reports advised to enter on non-existing URL but link on Bugzilla bug entering page nevertheless remain still incorrect. Should be changed to http://bugs.mandrakelinux.com . Harry
Re: [Cooker] Another ideas for Mandrake 10.0...
On Saturday 08 November 2003 06:34, BOUTELIER Sébastien rakstija: > - Is it possible to have an ISO of update (in fact a copy of directory > updates with some corrections if needed), and each week the ISO is updated > with the new updates. That's interesting that http://www.budgetlinuxcds.com already offer such CD disks with updates, now more than 400 Mb, along with other Mandrake 9.2 related CD's. Right after installation from Download Ed. 3 CD's one can add such CD as additional update source in Media Manager and easily install anything he needs to. Besides, they offer also _all_ 9.2 Contribs on 4 CD's which is also good for people with slower Internet connections or without them. I have no relation with this webstore other than very satisfied customer. But still waiting while my long ago pre-ordered Powerpack DVD will (hopefully) arrive, it is better to have at least BudgetLinux disks. Besides, these BudgetLinux disks will be necesary anyway because AFAIK we will receive uncorrected DVD's full of initial errors from MandrakeStore, so CD with Updates and 4 CD's with Contributions should be good to have handy ;-) As for 10.0 ISO's (release and updates) I would suggest again that Mandrake might consider outsourcing CD/DVD production and shipment to companies really capable to do this in _days_ not weeks. I mean also commercial products like PowerPack CD's/DVD-only editions. There are companies like Cheapbytes, Budgetlinux and many others which IMHO could (within some commercial agreement framework) quickly produce e.g. Powerpack CD's and accurately ship them to customers, paying Mandrake the same margin that Mandrake has now from Powerpacks, or even more. Customers will have their disks much sooner and with much lower shipping costs. Seems a win-win situation but Mandrake has been deaf to such ideas for years... Mandrake could (and IMHO should!) concentrate more on release building and _quality_, leaving disk production and logistics to people who really know how to do that. Harry
