Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: > > No.. as explained by Todd & Andrej, you're just setting up > clients & servers, no wonder you need client and server stuff. My complaint is that the installer mishandles this. As I recall, no user option is provided to install what you call nfs servers in non-server installations. That is the problem. In passing let me remark that the client-server model is a Microsoft invention and is not generally excepted by the industry. It is too shallow a concept and positively misleading in practice except possibly at the machine level.It assumes single-direction transmission only, which is not a real-world truth. It leads to far more problems that it resolves. I recommend Mandrake drops the use of the client-server model and terminology except possibly at the machine level. Even in this case there should be 3 options, server, client, and server & client. Conclusion: It is not a useful distinction or even simplification. Throw it out! -- Ron. [au]
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Ron Stodden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Would it not be simplest to move exportfs and /etc/exports setup from > nfs-utils to nfs-utils-client and rename nfs-utils to nfs-utils-server? No.. as explained by Todd & Andrej, you're just setting up clients & servers, no wonder you need client and server stuff. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://www.frozen-bubble.org/
RE: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
> Huh?? Opposite?? Servers are not the only things that want > to export parts of their file systems. Clients must do so all the > time to other clients and to servers. > > For a server (or another client) to download anything to a client on > the same LAN, the _CLIENT_ must tell (ie export) to the server all the > places to be accessible to the server and the permitted access modes. > > This requires exportfs to be available on the client, hence the > nfs-utils RPM to be installed, which currently it is not. > > Oh, dear... It's very simple. Crystal clear now? > Moot. What you are saying is "if I want to export NFS I need server nfs-utils". System that exports NFS is NFS server not NFS client. NFS client does not need it nfs-utils. NFS server does.
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Todd Lyons wrote: > > Then that is not a client, it is a server. He's using client/server in > the context of the services that are running, you are using > client/server in the context of the physical machine. The basic fact is > that if machine A is exporting an nfs mount to machine B, then machine A > is a server and machine B is a client. If you are also exporting an fs > mount from machine B to machine C, then machine B is also a server. as well as a client, yes? You seem to be confused as well - "if machine A is exporting an nfs mount to machine B, then machine A > is a server and machine B is a client" Unlike in real life, an nfs "permission to >mount" export never leaves its machine and therefore is NOT itself exported. It is >only consulted (as a client?) when another machine requests nfs mount access to some >part of its file tree. At that time it, the client, either gives or declines access >to the incoming mount request. We are talking about the Mandrake installer. If I say no servers, then this MACHINE is not a server MACHINE to any other MACHINE. I do not recollect any installer checkbox under servers for nfs. Would it not be simplest to move exportfs and /etc/exports setup from nfs-utils to nfs-utils-client and rename nfs-utils to nfs-utils-server? But thanks anyway. -- Ron. [au]
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: > > Ron Stodden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > 1. The nfs-utils rpm is still not being installed, even though > > > > nfs-utils-clients is. > > > > > > Sounds normal since one is for server us, the other for client > > > use. > > > > Oh dear, this is NOT true. nfs-utils contains all the nfs utils which > > includes > > exportfs. Without exportfs you cannot set up either a client or a > > server for > > networking. exportfs is a necessary utility for any networked PC. It > > makes the > > "shares" (nominated directories) as specified manually by the user in > > /etc/exports available to specific peer and server machines on the > > network. > > I'm not convinced "exportfs" is needed at all for client > operation... The man reports "exportfs - maintain list of NFS > exported file systems". It also says: > > The exportfs command is used to maintain the current table of > exported file systems for NFS. This list is kept in a separate > file named /var/lib/nfs/xtab which is read by mountd when a > remote host requests access to mount a file tree, and parts of > the list which are active are kept in the kernel's export table. > > Why do you say the opposite? Any fact/anything? Huh?? Opposite?? Servers are not the only things that want to export parts of their file systems. Clients must do so all the time to other clients and to servers. For a server (or another client) to download anything to a client on the same LAN, the _CLIENT_ must tell (ie export) to the server all the places to be accessible to the server and the permitted access modes. This requires exportfs to be available on the client, hence the nfs-utils RPM to be installed, which currently it is not. Oh, dear... It's very simple. Crystal clear now? -- Ron. [au]
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Ron Stodden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > 1. The nfs-utils rpm is still not being installed, even though > > > nfs-utils-clients is. > > > > Sounds normal since one is for server us, the other for client > > use. > > Oh dear, this is NOT true. nfs-utils contains all the nfs utils which > includes > exportfs. Without exportfs you cannot set up either a client or a > server for > networking. exportfs is a necessary utility for any networked PC. It > makes the > "shares" (nominated directories) as specified manually by the user in > /etc/exports available to specific peer and server machines on the > network. Well, AFAIK, ee don't even need nfs-utils-clients for NFS mount. "mount -o nolock server:/directory /mnt/where" is enough when you don't have portmap here. I'm not convinced "exportfs" is needed at all for client operation... The man reports "exportfs - maintain list of NFS exported file systems". It also says: The exportfs command is used to maintain the current table of exported file systems for NFS. This list is kept in a separate file named /var/lib/nfs/xtab which is read by mountd when a remote host requests access to mount a file tree, and parts of the list which are active are kept in the kernel's export table. Etc... Why do you say the opposite? Any fact/anything? -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://www.frozen-bubble.org/
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Guillaume Cottenceau wrote: > > Ron Stodden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Re: Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18 > > > > 1. The nfs-utils rpm is still not being installed, even though > > nfs-utils-clients is. > > Sounds normal since one is for server us, the other for client > use. Oh dear, this is NOT true. nfs-utils contains all the nfs utils which includes exportfs. Without exportfs you cannot set up either a client or a server for networking. exportfs is a necessary utility for any networked PC. It makes the "shares" (nominated directories) as specified manually by the user in /etc/exports available to specific peer and server machines on the network. > > 2. Even though the exportfs is set up correctly, another machine on the > > network which is running Mandrake 8.0 will NOT connect across different > > kernel versions (Permission refused).It is impractical to require > > all the machines on a Linux network to be using exactly the same kernel > > version and release of Linux. By virtue of the release numbering > > convention 8.0 must be compatible with all later 8.n releases. This > > includes networking. > > Any idea on the origin of this problem? No.It looks like bad management of the kernel implementation. Another user here claims there is no problem, but by his context he is only talking about simple TCP/IP and not about its array of carried protocols like nfs. -- Ron. [au]
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Ron Stodden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Re: Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18 > > 1. The nfs-utils rpm is still not being installed, even though > nfs-utils-clients is. Sounds normal since one is for server us, the other for client use. > 2. Even though the exportfs is set up correctly, another machine on the > network which is running Mandrake 8.0 will NOT connect across different > kernel versions (Permission refused).It is impractical to require > all the machines on a Linux network to be using exactly the same kernel > version and release of Linux. By virtue of the release numbering > convention 8.0 must be compatible with all later 8.n releases. This > includes networking. Any idea on the origin of this problem? > 3. /etc/resolv and /etc/hosts and /etc/exports are still not being set > up and exportfs -r is not being run (it is not even installed! See 1. > above. > It is in the nfs-utils RPM). Without these, networking is > impossible. exportfs -r is run automatically by the "nfs" initscript. > 4. Something is continuing to alter or rebuild, usually incorrectly, > /etc/fstab. NOTHING should ever interfere with this file. diskdrake is interfering with it and probably a few other config programs such as linuxconf/webmin; also, supermount script does. -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://www.frozen-bubble.org/
[Cooker] Logitech TrackMan Marble [Was: Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18]
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Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Op zo 10-03-2002, om 03:28 schreef Ron Stodden: > "Liam R. E. Quin" wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 23:48, Ron Stodden wrote: > > > Netscape navigator and messenger? > > > No. Does imwheel achieve that? > > For me, imwheel is necessary with Netscape. > > -- > Ron. [au] imwheel is not necessary with Netscape. You simply have to add some lines about netscape4 in some dotfile. It has passed this mailling list a few times
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
"Liam R. E. Quin" wrote: > > On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 23:48, Ron Stodden wrote: > > Netscape navigator and messenger? > No. Does imwheel achieve that? For me, imwheel is necessary with Netscape. -- Ron. [au]
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
÷ ÷ÓË, 10.03.2002, × 01:48, Ron Stodden ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌ: > > > I have this in my XF86Config-4 file, and it works -- the > > mouse wheel scrolls in gnome-terminal, mozilla, konqueror, etc. > > Netscape navigator and messenger? > netscape 4 is not in mandrake anymore; netscape 6 is mozilla. -andrej
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 23:48, Ron Stodden wrote: > "Liam R. E. Quin" wrote: > [imwheel] is an RPM distributed with all Mandrake 8 releases. A kpackage > search > will show whether it is installed. $ rpm -q imwheel package imwheel is not installed $ rpm -qa | grep -i imwheel $ I have not done a cooker install from CD - only upgraded packages; I might get a chance to install from CD early next week. > > I have this in my XF86Config-4 file, and it works -- the > > mouse wheel scrolls in gnome-terminal, mozilla, konqueror, etc. > > Netscape navigator and messenger? No. Does imwheel achieve that? Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net www.valinor.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org Author, Open Source XML Database Toolkit, Wiley August 2000 Co-author: The XML Specification Guide, Wiley 1999; Mastering XML, Sybex 2001
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
"Liam R. E. Quin" wrote: > > On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 12:12, Ron Stodden wrote: > > I said imwheel is necessary with XFree86-4. That is a true statement > > here. > > possibly; I'm not sure what "imwheel" is, but if it's a program I'm not > running it. It is an RPM distributed with all Mandrake 8 releases. A kpackage search will show whether it is installed. > I have this in my XF86Config-4 file, and it works -- the > mouse wheel scrolls in gnome-terminal, mozilla, konqueror, etc. Netscape navigator and messenger? > Logitech mouseman, with the blue light on the front. > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Mouse1" > Driver "mouse" > Option "Protocol""IMPS/2" > Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" > Option "Emulate3Buttons" > Option "Emulate3Timeout" "50" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection Good! -- Ron. [au]
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 12:12, Ron Stodden wrote: > I said imwheel is necessary with XFree86-4. That is a true statement > here. possibly; I'm not sure what "imwheel" is, but if it's a program I'm not running it. I have this in my XF86Config-4 file, and it works -- the mouse wheel scrolls in gnome-terminal, mozilla, konqueror, etc. Logitech mouseman, with the blue light on the front. Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse1" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol""IMPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option "Emulate3Buttons" Option "Emulate3Timeout" "50" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Liam
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Ron Stodden wrote: > > Curtis H wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 03:12, Ron Stodden wrote: > > > > I said imwheel is necessary with XFree86-4. That is a true statement > > > here. > > > > What kind of wheel mouse do you have? > > > > I have an Intellimouse and when I last did a clean install (around > > beta2), I had to delete an broken mouse entry in the /lib/dev-state > > directory for the wheel to work properly (along with a quick rpm -e > > imwheel). > > Microsoft Intellimouse Wheel Mouse Optical. If XF86Config(-4) is set up correctly, imwheel shouldn't be needed, & will cause probs with konsole in KDE. Is there: Option "Buttons" "5" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" In your pointer section?
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Curtis H wrote: > > On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 03:12, Ron Stodden wrote: > > I said imwheel is necessary with XFree86-4. That is a true statement > > here. > > What kind of wheel mouse do you have? > > I have an Intellimouse and when I last did a clean install (around > beta2), I had to delete an broken mouse entry in the /lib/dev-state > directory for the wheel to work properly (along with a quick rpm -e > imwheel). Microsoft Intellimouse Wheel Mouse Optical. -- Ron. [au]
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 03:12, Ron Stodden wrote: > Borsenkow Andrej wrote: > > > > ÷ óÂÔ, 09.03.2002, × 06:18, Ron Stodden ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌ: > > > 7. Despite a wheel mouse being indicated and tested, the necessary > > > imwheel RPM is not being installed. The wheel therefore remains > > > inoperative. > > > > Imwheel is not needed at least with XFree86-4 and actually when it is > > started wheel in KDE works incorrectly (such as you must click on window > > to send wheel events into it). > > I said imwheel is necessary with XFree86-4. That is a true statement > here. What kind of wheel mouse do you have? I have an Intellimouse and when I last did a clean install (around beta2), I had to delete an broken mouse entry in the /lib/dev-state directory for the wheel to work properly (along with a quick rpm -e imwheel). -- /curtis ><> Mandrake Linux 8.2 Kernel Version 2.4.18-2mdk Uptime 3 days 1 hour 14 minutes
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Borsenkow Andrej wrote: > > ÷ óÂÔ, 09.03.2002, × 06:18, Ron Stodden ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌ: > > 7. Despite a wheel mouse being indicated and tested, the necessary > > imwheel RPM is not being installed. The wheel therefore remains > > inoperative. > > Imwheel is not needed at least with XFree86-4 and actually when it is > started wheel in KDE works incorrectly (such as you must click on window > to send wheel events into it). I said imwheel is necessary with XFree86-4. That is a true statement here. > > 9, The installer sets a kernel route table default value. When kppp > > sees > > this it does not set its own default route. This makes the internet > > inaccessible. The kernel default route must be deleted by the user in > > rc.local so that kppp can set the default to ppp0, enabling internet > > traffic. > > > > May you give an example what you mean with default route? netstat -r? No, the /sbin/route command, which lists the kernel's routing table. If a default route has been set it will be the last line of the kernel's routing table. If there is no default route set all packets which do not match routing table entries (ie everything under kppp) will be quietly discarded. > Besides, ppp has an option to force default route - you mean you use it > and it does not work? kppp will not replace the default route if one already exists, which is the case if the installer has also installed a LAN. I think it should, and restore it afterwards, but it does not. -- Ron. [au]
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
÷ óÂÔ, 09.03.2002, × 06:18, Ron Stodden ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌ: > 7. Despite a wheel mouse being indicated and tested, the necessary > imwheel RPM is not being installed. The wheel therefore remains > inoperative. Imwheel is not needed at least with XFree86-4 and actually when it is started wheel in KDE works incorrectly (such as you must click on window to send wheel events into it). > > 9, The installer sets a kernel route table default value. When kppp > sees > this it does not set its own default route. This makes the internet > inaccessible. The kernel default route must be deleted by the user in > rc.local so that kppp can set the default to ppp0, enabling internet > traffic. > May you give an example what you mean with default route? netstat -r? Besides, ppp has an option to force default route - you mean you use it and it does not work? -andrej
Re: [Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:18:34 +1100 Ron Stodden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Re: Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18 > ... > > 7. Despite a wheel mouse being indicated and tested, the necessary > imwheel RPM is not being installed. The wheel therefore remains > inoperative. > Once imwheel is installed manually it is necessary to reboot the entire > system - this violates Linux conventions. imwheel is not only unnecessary for most systems, it actually hinders proper wheel response. -- Grimau Lysik'an, the Bionic Elf --- Mandrake on irc.openprojects.net: #mandrake & #mandrake-linux = help for newbies #mandrakeguru = advanced discussions #mdk-cooker = Mandrake Cooker discussions
[Cooker] Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18
Re: Mandrake Linux Cooker-i586 20020307 3:18 1. The nfs-utils rpm is still not being installed, even though nfs-utils-clients is. 2. Even though the exportfs is set up correctly, another machine on the network which is running Mandrake 8.0 will NOT connect across different kernel versions (Permission refused).It is impractical to require all the machines on a Linux network to be using exactly the same kernel version and release of Linux. By virtue of the release numbering convention 8.0 must be compatible with all later 8.n releases. This includes networking. 3. /etc/resolv and /etc/hosts and /etc/exports are still not being set up and exportfs -r is not being run (it is not even installed! See 1. above. It is in the nfs-utils RPM). Without these, networking is impossible. 4. Something is continuing to alter or rebuild, usually incorrectly, /etc/fstab. NOTHING should ever interfere with this file. 5. Changes to the exit KDE dialog no longer permit another user to log in. If autologin is installed there appears to be no way that any other user can ever log in!!! How can such a terrible and so obvious mistake have got this far in the 8.2 development cycle? The KDE emergency exit however does produce a KDE login screen at which any user can log in. 6. there is no ability to get out from KDE to a linux command line and access the facilities. 7. Despite a wheel mouse being indicated and tested, the necessary imwheel RPM is not being installed. The wheel therefore remains inoperative. Once imwheel is installed manually it is necessary to reboot the entire system - this violates Linux conventions. 8. /dev/fd0 is not a valid device. 9, The installer sets a kernel route table default value. When kppp sees this it does not set its own default route. This makes the internet inaccessible. The kernel default route must be deleted by the user in rc.local so that kppp can set the default to ppp0, enabling internet traffic. Alas, there is still LOTS of Mandrake work to do before we have a good 8.2 -- Ron. [au]
