[Cooker] sound issues (mor)
Ok, 3rd time's the charm MAYBE. Unfortunately, my patience with Mandrake has reached an end. Certain applications require play (/usr/bin/play), which **gasp** someone decided to play with? Once again (for the third time), how do I get this configured to WORK correctlY? Considering someone up there decided they knew everything and that they should mess with something that worked PERFECTLY, it is now up to that someone to respond. Certain applications rely on play (again /usr/bin/play), some actually rely on the OSS drivers. Some are even ((gasp)) binary applications meaning they CAN NOT be changed. One VERY common application like that is crossover. Since the change, NOTHING for sound has come out of that.. -=THAT=- is enough to drive me back to a decent OS that actually (gasp) WORKS out of the box and doesn't mess with that which WORKS correctly (sound for one). Applications like this, I gladly (GLADLY) pay for. Applications that don't provide basic driver support, or half assed support for said drivers I pay nothing for. Applications (or operating systems) that refuse to LISTEN to what their users are saying I pay nothing for, and no attention to. Since I started using Mandrake, I have seen nothing but problems. Failure to unmount devices properly, failure to do many things properly. Now, this just takes the cake. You take a driver that WAS working, and you trash it. For WHAT reason? So, those of us that REQUIRE the drivers for this card are told what, to go buy a new card? I don't think so!! I realize that life as a tech is damn near impossible (I AM one), but I also realize that there is NO reason to fix something or modify somthing that works 100%, which up untill this last release sound HAS done. Now, someone, PLEASE explain to me why I all of the sudden have HALF ASSED sound support (right out of the box mind you). I'd LOVE to hear the explanation for this. -- TJW: Head tech, Dreamless Realms Mud: http://dreamless.wolfstream.net Snippets http://dreamless.wolfstream.net/ Telnet dreamless.wolfstream.net:9275 The OLC Pages http://olc.wolfstream.net
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 14:27, Tom Whiting wrote: ... deleted angry comments ... Erm.. You *do* know that cooker is the experimental branch of mandrake, don't you? If you want things to 'just work' it would be better to stick to the release version. At the moment the latest release is Mandrake 8.2 Wouter -- I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out. -- (Terry Pratchett Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
Tom, please remove your Reply-To: (unless you did it for this mail on purpose) Tom is right. This switch to ALSA preference when OSS works was premature. Set it back how it was for now, and wait for kernel 2.6 to switch. --- Tom Whiting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, 3rd time's the charm MAYBE. Unfortunately, my patience with Mandrake has reached an end. Certain applications require play (/usr/bin/play), which **gasp** someone decided to play with? Once again (for the third time), how do I get this configured to WORK correctlY? Considering someone up there decided they knew everything and that they should mess with something that worked PERFECTLY, it is now up to that someone to respond. Certain applications rely on play (again /usr/bin/play), some actually rely on the OSS drivers. Some are even ((gasp)) binary applications meaning they CAN NOT be changed. One VERY common application like that is crossover. Since the change, NOTHING for sound has come out of that.. -=THAT=- is enough to drive me back to a decent OS that actually (gasp) WORKS out of the box and doesn't mess with that which WORKS correctly (sound for one). Applications like this, I gladly (GLADLY) pay for. Applications that don't provide basic driver support, or half assed support for said drivers I pay nothing for. Applications (or operating systems) that refuse to LISTEN to what their users are saying I pay nothing for, and no attention to. Since I started using Mandrake, I have seen nothing but problems. Failure to unmount devices properly, failure to do many things properly. Now, this just takes the cake. You take a driver that WAS working, and you trash it. For WHAT reason? So, those of us that REQUIRE the drivers for this card are told what, to go buy a new card? I don't think so!! I realize that life as a tech is damn near impossible (I AM one), but I also realize that there is NO reason to fix something or modify somthing that works 100%, which up untill this last release sound HAS done. Now, someone, PLEASE explain to me why I all of the sudden have HALF ASSED sound support (right out of the box mind you). I'd LOVE to hear the explanation for this. -- TJW: Head tech, Dreamless Realms Mud: http://dreamless.wolfstream.net Snippets http://dreamless.wolfstream.net/ Telnet dreamless.wolfstream.net:9275 The OLC Pages http://olc.wolfstream.net __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
You are running cooker, so if you have problems, please report them in a nice way. This might actually work better than the rant below. Also, I think someone replied to your previous message already, and you did't even see that? Danny On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Tom Whiting wrote: Ok, 3rd time's the charm MAYBE. Unfortunately, my patience with Mandrake has reached an end. Certain applications require play (/usr/bin/play), which **gasp** someone decided to play with? Once again (for the third time), how do I get this configured to WORK correctlY? Considering someone up there decided they knew everything and that they should mess with something that worked PERFECTLY, it is now up to that someone to respond. Certain applications rely on play (again /usr/bin/play), some actually rely on the OSS drivers. Some are even ((gasp)) binary applications meaning they CAN NOT be changed. One VERY common application like that is crossover. Since the change, NOTHING for sound has come out of that.. -=THAT=- is enough to drive me back to a decent OS that actually (gasp) WORKS out of the box and doesn't mess with that which WORKS correctly (sound for one). Applications like this, I gladly (GLADLY) pay for. Applications that don't provide basic driver support, or half assed support for said drivers I pay nothing for. Applications (or operating systems) that refuse to LISTEN to what their users are saying I pay nothing for, and no attention to. Since I started using Mandrake, I have seen nothing but problems. Failure to unmount devices properly, failure to do many things properly. Now, this just takes the cake. You take a driver that WAS working, and you trash it. For WHAT reason? So, those of us that REQUIRE the drivers for this card are told what, to go buy a new card? I don't think so!! I realize that life as a tech is damn near impossible (I AM one), but I also realize that there is NO reason to fix something or modify somthing that works 100%, which up untill this last release sound HAS done. Now, someone, PLEASE explain to me why I all of the sudden have HALF ASSED sound support (right out of the box mind you). I'd LOVE to hear the explanation for this.
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
David Walser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom is right. This switch to ALSA preference when OSS works was premature. Set it back how it was for now, and wait for kernel 2.6 to switch. before speaking of doing this or that, he should rather send us the information we asked in order to do a real bug report instead of just insulting us. and he would be nice to respect the netiquette and to continue to write about this in the same thread. idem for microsoft troll he feed his mails with instead of explaining his problem. idem for mixing upcased and lowcase words, repeating words (word ((WORD))), ... as for alsa vs oss, most programs rather prefer alsa api over oss (despite oss still being the defacto standard) especially on the multimedia area. as for working driver, i cannot speak until i know which driver he uses. but i know one thing: whenever i did a pass on alsa drivers to add new cards to pcitable, i *ALWAYS* keep the oss driver when he was already there. as for the working driver, i only switched from oss to alsa when people asked me (because of oss bug, ...). i saw people reporting alsa working better than oss. i rarely (never?) see the reverse (i don't count tom's report don't fix perfectly working driver as a bug report but as insults/troll) but insulting/flaming is always easier than providing the needed information about the problem.
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 August 2002 07:35 am, Wouter Lagerweij wrote: On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 14:27, Tom Whiting wrote: ... deleted angry comments ... Erm.. You *do* know that cooker is the experimental branch of mandrake, don't you? If you want things to 'just work' it would be better to stick to the release version. At the moment the latest release is Mandrake 8.2 Wouter Actually, I know VERY well that this is an experimental branch of mandrake. VERY well indeed. The problem is that this is a BETA release. There's bound to be issues, YES. however, when it comes down to it, this doesn't even qualify as beta, or pre-beta. This qualifies as the I got a bug up my tail about something and want to see if it'll work syndrome that I've seen so many times. The fact of the matter is this: A OSS works. It HAS worked in the past. Hell, were I to download the ISO's again and rebuild the server, it WOULD work again. Unfortunately I no longer have the cd's to do so, thanks to the individual that decided to make those specific ISO's so large they are incompatible with quite a few older drives. B WHATEVER the new driver is is crap assed at best. When you can't get a BASIC feature to work (/usr/bin/play IS a basic feature that SHOULD work out of the box), then there's a problem, a HUGE problem. This says that the driver is NOT ready for release (even for a beta integration). If Joe internet user decides to go to WalMart and buy a PC with Mandrake on it, IS he (or she) going to be happy when their brand new server doesn't play sound like it's supposed to? I don't think so. Why should I? OSS works, it has worked for QUITE some time. Why mess with a good thing? Put it back in so that individuals can USE it. As far as sticking with stable releases, I've yet to see stable from 'drake. 8.2 was full of problems, and this is just going to be even more full of them, if the current state is any indication. It's not just sound issues, but hardware issues, and rpmdrake, and everything else. If the issue doesn't resolve itself, or get resolved, I'll gladly take my paying business somewhere else. I don't need the lack of support for common devices (Ensoniq / CL soundblaster cards are THE top card out there), nor do I really need to spend hours up every night trying to figure out why X isn't working or Y is, simply because someone else decided to take out WORKING support. **boggle** PROgression is good REgression is bad. The current sound driver status is NOT PROgression (moving forward), instead it is REgression (moving backwards). I'm not too familiar myself with ALsa, or anything of the like, but I am quite sure that this problem won't simply resolve itself. At least not until someone takes that step backward to put support in for OSS again. As far as the next message, which asked that I change the reply-to line, I apologize. Apparently Kmail set that at setup, and I hadn't changed it. -- TJW: Head tech, Dreamless Realms Mud: http://dreamless.wolfstream.net Snippets http://dreamless.wolfstream.net/ Telnet dreamless.wolfstream.net:9275 The OLC Pages http://olc.wolfstream.net
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
just go to /etc/modules and drop in your module's proper name. in my case: esssolo1, and make sure your Sound server is set to Autodetect or OSS. restart the server. no big deal. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are running cooker, so if you have problems, please report them in a nice way. This might actually work better than the rant below. Also, I think someone replied to your previous message already, and you did't even see that? Danny On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Tom Whiting wrote: Ok, 3rd time's the charm MAYBE. Unfortunately, my patience with Mandrake has reached an end. Certain applications require play (/usr/bin/play), which **gasp** someone decided to play with? Once again (for the third time), how do I get this configured to WORK correctlY? Considering someone up there decided they knew everything and that they should mess with something that worked PERFECTLY, it is now up to that someone to respond. Certain applications rely on play (again /usr/bin/play), some actually rely on the OSS drivers. Some are even ((gasp)) binary applications meaning they CAN NOT be changed. One VERY common application like that is crossover. Since the change, NOTHING for sound has come out of that.. -=THAT=- is enough to drive me back to a decent OS that actually (gasp) WORKS out of the box and doesn't mess with that which WORKS correctly (sound for one). Applications like this, I gladly (GLADLY) pay for. Applications that don't provide basic driver support, or half assed support for said drivers I pay nothing for. Applications (or operating systems) that refuse to LISTEN to what their users are saying I pay nothing for, and no attention to. Since I started using Mandrake, I have seen nothing but problems. Failure to unmount devices properly, failure to do many things properly. Now, this just takes the cake. You take a driver that WAS working, and you trash it. For WHAT reason? So, those of us that REQUIRE the drivers for this card are told what, to go buy a new card? I don't think so!! I realize that life as a tech is damn near impossible (I AM one), but I also realize that there is NO reason to fix something or modify somthing that works 100%, which up untill this last release sound HAS done. Now, someone, PLEASE explain to me why I all of the sudden have HALF ASSED sound support (right out of the box mind you). I'd LOVE to hear the explanation for this. -- Dean F Owensby - Norfolk, Virginia USA - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - d66b __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 Aug 2002 13:27, Tom Whiting wrote: snip rant Certain applications rely on play (again /usr/bin/play), some actually snip rant # rpm -qf /usr/bin/play sox-12.17.3-4mdk -- Gentoo Linux (portage-2.0.27). KDE: 3.0.2 Qt: 3.0.5. AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1600+ 513MB. Kernel: 2.4.19-win4lin Linux user #275590 (http://counter.li.org/). up 1 day, 2:07. #=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=#
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
The problem is Cooker is about to become the release version. --- Wouter Lagerweij [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 14:27, Tom Whiting wrote: ... deleted angry comments ... Erm.. You *do* know that cooker is the experimental branch of mandrake, don't you? If you want things to 'just work' it would be better to stick to the release version. At the moment the latest release is Mandrake 8.2 Wouter -- I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out. -- (Terry Pratchett Neil Gaiman, Good Omens) __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
--- Thierry Vignaud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: before speaking of doing this or that, he should rather send us the information we asked in order to do a real bug report instead of just insulting us. and he would be nice to respect the netiquette and to continue to write about this in the same thread. idem for microsoft troll he feed his mails with instead of explaining his problem. idem for mixing upcased and lowcase words, repeating words (word ((WORD))), ... but insulting/flaming is always easier than providing the needed information about the problem. Well I agree with you too. I can understand his frustration though. __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
Actually, from the looks of things there's no support (??) for the module. If there is, I'll be damned if I can find it. in /lib/modules/sound/ I see 2 that MIGHT pass as ensoniq, but when it comes to modules I'm not gonna try to load the wrong one. Of course, this is another thing that didn't have to be done up untill just last weekend (early b3 I guess). /lib/modules/2.4.19-1mdk/kernel/sound/pci lspci | grep Ensoniq 00:0a.0 Multimedia audio controller: Ensoniq 5880 AudioPCI (rev 02) (wolf@mirage 08:42:31): /lib/modules/2.4.19-1mdk/kernel/sound/pci. The second problem is taht it's not ALL sound, so that the OS already KNOWS what card and driver it's using (arts is working somewhat, I just don't get much else (if anything) for sound). On Thursday 15 August 2002 08:20 am, Dean F Owensby wrote: just go to /etc/modules and drop in your module's proper name. in my case: esssolo1, and make sure your Sound server is set to Autodetect or OSS. restart the server. no big deal. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are running cooker, so if you have problems, please report them in a nice way. This might actually work better than the rant below. Also, I think someone replied to your previous message already, and you did't even see that? Danny On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Tom Whiting wrote: Ok, 3rd time's the charm MAYBE. Unfortunately, my patience with Mandrake has reached an end. Certain applications require play (/usr/bin/play), which **gasp** someone decided to play with? Once again (for the third time), how do I get this configured to WORK correctlY? Considering someone up there decided they knew everything and that they should mess with something that worked PERFECTLY, it is now up to that someone to respond. Certain applications rely on play (again /usr/bin/play), some actually rely on the OSS drivers. Some are even ((gasp)) binary applications meaning they CAN NOT be changed. One VERY common application like that is crossover. Since the change, NOTHING for sound has come out of that.. -=THAT=- is enough to drive me back to a decent OS that actually (gasp) WORKS out of the box and doesn't mess with that which WORKS correctly (sound for one). Applications like this, I gladly (GLADLY) pay for. Applications that don't provide basic driver support, or half assed support for said drivers I pay nothing for. Applications (or operating systems) that refuse to LISTEN to what their users are saying I pay nothing for, and no attention to. Since I started using Mandrake, I have seen nothing but problems. Failure to unmount devices properly, failure to do many things properly. Now, this just takes the cake. You take a driver that WAS working, and you trash it. For WHAT reason? So, those of us that REQUIRE the drivers for this card are told what, to go buy a new card? I don't think so!! I realize that life as a tech is damn near impossible (I AM one), but I also realize that there is NO reason to fix something or modify somthing that works 100%, which up untill this last release sound HAS done. Now, someone, PLEASE explain to me why I all of the sudden have HALF ASSED sound support (right out of the box mind you). I'd LOVE to hear the explanation for this. -- TJW: Head tech, Dreamless Realms Mud: http://dreamless.wolfstream.net Snippets http://dreamless.wolfstream.net/ Telnet dreamless.wolfstream.net:9275 The OLC Pages http://olc.wolfstream.net
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 August 2002 08:45 am, Tom Whiting wrote: The second problem is taht it's not ALL sound, so that the OS already KNOWS what card and driver it's using (arts is working somewhat, I just don't get much else (if anything) for sound). Can you produce the exact error messages? Also, did you try killing arts? You do know that arts blocks the soundcard for non-arts apps, right? Can you email the output of 'lsmod'? The ALSA drivers are far better than OSS in many respects, and work better for 90% of the cards. You have a very unique problem there, and you are not helping fix it but instead trolling, ranting, and harassing the people on this list. Please knock it off and help find/fix the problem instead. -- -- Igor
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 August 2002 08:45 am, Tom Whiting wrote: Actually, from the looks of things there's no support (??) for the module. If there is, I'll be damned if I can find it. in /lib/modules/sound/ I see 2 that MIGHT pass as ensoniq, but when it comes to modules I'm not gonna try to load the wrong one. Of course, this is another thing that didn't have to be done up untill just last weekend (early b3 I guess). snd-card-ens1371 is the module you are supposed to use. Have you heard about Google (www.google.com)? It could have told you that in about 30 seconds of searching. Also read the documentation at www.alsa-project.org. -- -- Igor
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
--- Igor Izyumin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 90% of the cards. You have a very unique problem there, and you are not helping fix it but instead trolling, ranting, and harassing the people on this list. Please knock it off and help find/fix the problem instead. The problem is very easy to fix. Go back to the OSS module like it was before. __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 August 2002 09:33 am, David Walser wrote: --- Igor Izyumin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 90% of the cards. You have a very unique problem there, and you are not helping fix it but instead trolling, ranting, and harassing the people on this list. Please knock it off and help find/fix the problem instead. The problem is very easy to fix. Go back to the OSS module like it was before. Really? And if we have problems with, say, the 2.4 kernel, we can go back to 2.2? Hell, why is Mandrake even working on 9.0, when they can just ship 8.2? The thing is, OSS is buggy and outdated, and ALSA works much better for most users. We need to fix the problem, not go back to an old, buggy sound system just so that one user can have sound. -- -- Igor
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
The problem is very easy to fix. Go back to the OSS module like it was before. In this case I'd agree with the last statement. I'm working to see WHAT is causing the problem, and it would appear that arts is indeed blocking what should be let through (or at least was with OSS). Unfortunately, Crossover has failed to work under this new setup, and that's something that's rather important to me to have. I have a feeling that it's yet again a conflict with the arts server. So, once again, this is REgression, instead of PROgression. OSS works, Alsa, for some reason doesn't integrate at all with KDE, yet OSS (which does) was thrown out. Personally, I don't see what the problem is/was with OSS. If something works (as it did), then why remove it? Alsa is nothing but a pain from what I've seen (just over the past few days). It doesn't integrate well with UI's, it isn't smart enough to know what it's doing (OSS could at least figure out what sound to play and when, and I NEVER had a problem with it and arts). Oh well, wha do I know, right?
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 August 2002 10:09 am, Igor Izyumin wrote: On Thursday 15 August 2002 09:33 am, David Walser wrote: --- Igor Izyumin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 90% of the cards. You have a very unique problem there, and you are not helping fix it but instead trolling, ranting, and harassing the people on this list. Please knock it off and help find/fix the problem instead. The problem is very easy to fix. Go back to the OSS module like it was before. Really? And if we have problems with, say, the 2.4 kernel, we can go back to 2.2? Hell, why is Mandrake even working on 9.0, when they can just ship 8.2? The thing is, OSS is buggy and outdated, and ALSA works much better for most users. We need to fix the problem, not go back to an old, buggy sound system just so that one user can have sound. Aye, but it's NOT just one user, is it? Alsa works better?? **boggle** I highly doubt that a sound server that can't interpret sound is better. I've yet to try Crossover with arts disabled, but if Alsa is not smart enough to handle kde sound it's certainly NOT better than OSS which IS (or at least appeared to be). Why should one person (or more) have to give up Crossover/QuickTime/WM support simply because of something that's not ready to be used or integrated yet?
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 August 2002 10:09 am, Igor Izyumin wrote: On Thursday 15 August 2002 09:33 am, David Walser wrote: --- Igor Izyumin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 90% of the cards. You have a very unique problem there, and you are not helping fix it but instead trolling, ranting, and harassing the people on this list. Please knock it off and help find/fix the problem instead. The problem is very easy to fix. Go back to the OSS module like it was before. Really? And if we have problems with, say, the 2.4 kernel, we can go back to 2.2? Hell, why is Mandrake even working on 9.0, when they can just ship 8.2? The thing is, OSS is buggy and outdated, and ALSA works much better for most users. We need to fix the problem, not go back to an old, buggy sound system just so that one user can have sound. Its not just ONE user. OSS has support for most all cards. ALSA doesn't have as large driver base. More is better -- Mr. Jeremy Salch - Data Services Granbury.Com, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - email www.granbury.com - Business Website www.tblx.net - Personal Website
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 August 2002 10:03 am, Jeremy Salch wrote: Its not just ONE user. OSS has support for most all cards. ALSA doesn't have as large driver base. More is better Actually, the reason Mandrake switched was that OSS _doesn't_ support all cards, and ALSA supports more. Also, OSS doesn't support more advanced features on cards like SBLive (from what I understand, I don't actually have one). Can you give me an example of a card that's not supported by ALSA that works with OSS/Free? Maybe a couple of very obscure ones, but there are more drivers overall, and the quality is usually better (I was getting pops with one card with OSS, and the problem was fixed by switching to ALSA). Anyway, here's the ALSA driver list: http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/ -- -- Igor
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thursday 15 August 2002 10:00 am, Tom Whiting wrote: The problem is very easy to fix. Go back to the OSS module like it was before. In this case I'd agree with the last statement. I'm working to see WHAT is causing the problem, and it would appear that arts is indeed blocking what should be let through (or at least was with OSS). Unfortunately, Crossover has failed to work under this new setup, and that's something that's rather important to me to have. I have a feeling that it's yet again a conflict with the arts server. Arts causes problems for WINE/Crossover regardless of the sound system, and these problems have nothing to do with the sound system. You probably didn't have it running when you used OSS. Just tell the stupid thing not to start (KDE-Config-Sound-Sound Server). That should probably be the default, too. -- -- Igor
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
Igor Izyumin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Really? And if we have problems with, say, the 2.4 kernel, we can go back to 2.2? Hell, why is Mandrake even working on 9.0, when they can just ship 8.2? The thing is, OSS is buggy and outdated, and ALSA works much better for most users. We need to fix the problem, not go back to an old, buggy sound system just so that one user can have sound. except it sound it's not an alsa problem, but an arts vs others sound device users, ... addalsa rulez/add
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
I for one greatly appreciate the switch to ALSA, I am using a C-Media 8738 6 channel sound integrated into an IWILL mobo, and have incessantly gotten erroneous playback problems due to 2 things: 1: there ARE NO OSS-only drivers available for my sound (afaik) 2: ALSA .5x drivers (both provided by mdk AND C-media) on 8.2 are very buggy with cpu-intensive tasks (like WINE in particular, wine will only use OSS, crashes with ALSA!) I am all for the early switch, and believe it will be of greater benefit to users in general. keep up the good work all! Anthony Dolan -On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 15:05:57 +0200 -Thierry Vignaud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as for alsa vs oss, most programs rather prefer alsa api over oss (despite oss still being the defacto standard) especially on the multimedia area. as for working driver, i cannot speak until i know which driver he uses. but i know one thing: whenever i did a pass on alsa drivers to add new cards to pcitable, i *ALWAYS* keep the oss driver when he was already there. as for the working driver, i only switched from oss to alsa when people asked me (because of oss bug, ...). i saw people reporting alsa working better than oss. i rarely (never?) see the reverse (i don't count tom's report don't fix perfectly working driver as a bug report but as insults/troll)
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 14:15, Tom Whiting wrote: On Thursday 15 August 2002 07:35 am, Wouter Lagerweij wrote: On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 14:27, Tom Whiting wrote: ... deleted angry comments ... Erm.. You *do* know that cooker is the experimental branch of mandrake, don't you? If you want things to 'just work' it would be better to stick to the release version. At the moment the latest release is Mandrake 8.2 Wouter Actually, I know VERY well that this is an experimental branch of mandrake. VERY well indeed. The problem is that this is a BETA release. There's bound to be issues, YES. however, when it comes down to it, this doesn't even qualify as beta, or pre-beta. This qualifies as the I got a bug up my tail about something and want to see if it'll work syndrome that I've seen so many times. The fact of the matter is this: A OSS works. It HAS worked in the past. Hell, were I to download the ISO's again and rebuild the server, it WOULD work again. Unfortunately I no longer have the cd's to do so, thanks to the individual that decided to make those specific ISO's so large they are incompatible with quite a few older drives. snip more testosterone overdosing You've just filled yet another post with pointless bitching without giving the most basic information on the actual setup that's causing this problem (except for saying 'ensoniq / CL soundcards', which is hardly helpful given how many of the things there are). ALSA and OSS aren't monolithic, they're big collections of drivers; as someone has said, MDK still uses OSS drivers by default for almost all cards, it only uses ALSA for cards a) which have no OSS drivers or b) for which the OSS drivers have had bug reports submitted against them. Instead of bitching, can you please explain why this isn't a sensible policy, and explain the actual problem you're having in a useful and non-confrontational manner? It would be far more productive. FWIW, both my sound cards - the inbuilt Yamaha chip in this notebook and the SB16 PCI in the desktop - default to OSS drivers under Mandrake, both 8.2 and Cooker... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 16:00, Tom Whiting wrote: Personally, I don't see what the problem is/was with OSS. If something works (as it did), then why remove it? Alsa is nothing but a pain from what I've seen (just over the past few days). It doesn't integrate well with UI's, it isn't smart enough to know what it's doing (OSS could at least figure out what sound to play and when, and I NEVER had a problem with it and arts). OSS works *for some version of* works. It's just not as *good* as ALSA for many cards. A small example; the OSS driver for the sound chip in this machine works fine...but it has no setting for the microphone input gain level, which makes using a microphone effectively useless. The ALSA driver does. Now, there OSS *WORKS*, but which driver do you think i'd rather use? Oh, also, from what I remember ALSA is a lot better at allowing multiple applications to output sound at once than OSS. It also has better features for audio editors on the higher-end cards that are suited to that task. There ARE reasons ALSA, not OSS, will be the default in kernel 2.6, you know... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
Igor Izyumin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Its not just ONE user. OSS has support for most all cards. ALSA doesn't have as large driver base. More is better Actually, the reason Mandrake switched was that OSS _doesn't_ support all cards, and ALSA supports more. indeed but the thruth is that we don't switched from oss to alsa but instead provide both. i always kept by default oss drivers in your pcitable. each time a new alsa was released, i diffed the last versions, and added the new cards supported by latest alsa. so only new cards were defaulted to alsa. then, some people reported their card misbehave with the old oss driver we used with their card or that alsa was much more featured for their card. so on their request, i switched *only* their card from oss to alsa. Also, OSS doesn't support more advanced features on cards like SBLive (from what I understand, I don't actually have one). Can you give me an example of a card that's not supported by ALSA that works with OSS/Free? they're indeed very rare. Maybe a couple of very obscure ones, but there are more drivers overall, and the quality is usually better (I was getting pops with one card with OSS, and the problem was fixed by switching to ALSA). Anyway, here's the ALSA driver list: http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
Jeremy Salch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Its not just ONE user. OSS has support for most all cards. ALSA doesn't have as large driver base. More is better more is better ? alsa supports nearly all cards supported by oss (i speak about kernel's oss/free of course, not commercial oss) and support a lot of other cards too. and alsa share lot of code between its sound drivers, thus offer support more cards for less development and smaller binaries
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
Jeremy Salch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well it doesn't support my card which is ? (i'll build a oss vs alsa comparaison)
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
--- Igor Izyumin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snd-card-ens1371 is the module you are supposed to use. Have you heard about Google (www.google.com)? It could have told you that in about 30 seconds of searching. Also read the documentation at www.alsa-project.org. no, es1371 is the module you want. It works perfectly, there is absolutely no need for ALSA on that card. __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
--- Igor Izyumin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really? And if we have problems with, say, the 2.4 kernel, we can go back to 2.2? Hell, why is Mandrake even working on 9.0, when they can just ship 8.2? The thing is, OSS is buggy and outdated, and ALSA works much better for most users. We need to fix the problem, not go back to an old, buggy sound system just so that one user can have sound. Newer != better OSS works *just fine* on lots of cards, and it should be being dropped on those. ALSA has a lot of cleaning up to do before it's soup, and obviously some user-space tools need updated too. __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
--- Adam Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You've just filled yet another post with pointless bitching without giving the most basic information on the actual setup that's causing this problem (except for saying 'ensoniq / CL soundcards', which is hardly helpful given how many of the things there are). ALSA and OSS aren't monolithic, they're big collections of drivers; as someone has said, MDK still uses OSS drivers by default for almost all cards, it only uses ALSA for cards a) which have no OSS drivers or b) for which the OSS drivers have had bug reports submitted against them. Instead of bitching, can you please explain why this isn't a sensible policy, and explain the actual problem you're having in a useful and non-confrontational manner? It would be far more productive. That is a sensible policy. Someone suggested however that they did OSS-ALSA on the es1371, when there is *nothing wrong* with OSS on that card. Also, for cards (like SBLive) where OSS works (just maybe isn't the greatest) the option should still be presented up front (expert mode only) in DrakX to use OSS, rather than just surprising people with it. __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
The problem is Cooker is about to become the release version. Yes, after at least one more beta and several rc's. Mandrake hasn't said that (or when) they are releasing 9.0. I'm sure if you looked at another OS while it was still in development between versions you'd find it was just as full of bugs. Thats why it's called development. If 9.0 is released and still has all these probs, trust me, I'll be one of the first in line to bitch, but it's not, this is cooker :) Ryan
Re: [Cooker] sound issues (mor)
--- Ryan Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is Cooker is about to become the release version. Yes, after at least one more beta and several rc's. You hope. Mandrake hasn't said that (or when) they are releasing 9.0. I'm sure if Sept. 5-10 you looked at another OS while it was still in development between versions you'd find it was just as full of bugs. Thats why it's called development. If 9.0 is Right, so the ideas being tested in Cooker now are what they hope to do in 9.0 Theorhetically if it doesn't work out (which it isn't) they could revert, but people have a psychological tendency to commit more strongly to bad decisions in the face of evidence it was a bad decision. released and still has all these probs, trust me, I'll be one of the first in line to bitch, but it's not, this is cooker Which in a few weeks will == 9.0. Cooker and final release are not two seperate things. Final release is a snapshot of Cooker. This isn't like a development fork where there's some other stable branch being maintained (think Mozilla). __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com
