Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Monday 09 April 2001 13:42, Randy Kramer wrote: | Fred, | | Thanks for the response! It looks like I misled you -- I'm not sure | anymore wnere I got the rpms for kde 2.1, but the rpms for kde 2.1.1 are | under: | | | http://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake-devel/unsupport |ed/i586/kde-2.1.1/ | | which is clearly marked unsupported. Hi Randy! As far as I know, these RPMs should work. I have tested them (here, on my LM 7.2) Please be sure when upgrading that you have satisfied list of dependencies. The only ones I recommend to ignore are db1, db1-devel. Install all other necessary libs, and KDE 2.1.x should work ok after all. In any case, if you still have problems you can write me off-list. | | My mistake, sorry! (But now I understand what is supported and what is | not, thanks!) | | Randy Kramer | -- Vadim Plessky http://kde2.newmail.ru (English) http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html (Russian) Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it! http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW: is it possible to install LM 8.0beta3 without X? And in less than 150MB? I am still on LM 7.2 footprints so can't test (yet) personnal best score was 90Mb for a cd-burning box with the 7.2. never tried to minimalize mdk8
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Fred, Thanks for the response! It looks like I misled you -- I'm not sure anymore wnere I got the rpms for kde 2.1, but the rpms for kde 2.1.1 are under: http://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake-devel/unsupported/i586/kde-2.1.1/ which is clearly marked unsupported. My mistake, sorry! (But now I understand what is supported and what is not, thanks!) Randy Kramer Frederic Lepied wrote: I downloaded the RPMs to update Mandrake 7.2 to kde 2.1 from http://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake/updates/7.2/RPMS/. It does not say anything about "unsupported". How does one know that these updates are unsupported? No the updates in this directory are fully supported.
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Randy Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I had trouble upgrading from kde 2.0 to kde 2.1 (on Mandrake 7.2) (possibly because I'm pretty much a newbie). Still, I was disappointed when one of the responses I got from the cooker list was that the binary RPMs to upgrade Mandrake 7.2 to kde 2.1 are unsupported. (I since learned about expert and should have asked for help there, but have not.) It is also disappointing that I did not see any mention of this intent not to support the upgrade to kde 2.1 on the web pages. (To be honest, I have not looked that hard, but it was not obvious when I went to download the rpms.) What is Mandrake's policy on package upgrades? Is it the policy to sell / distribute a given distribution (7.2) and the only supported upgrade path is the next revision of the distribution (8.0)? What is the policy of other distributions? No that's wrong, we support upgrade between versions but we don't support upgrade from the unsupported/MandrakeFreq repository of packages. This repository is available as is and we don't make a lot of tests on it. -- Fred - May the source be with you
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Digital Wokan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then I guess you should be looking for another distro. Because almost immediately after 7.2 came out of beta testing, Cooker was bumped up to a development version of GCC. Apparently the Red Hat (7.0) bandwagon was still big enough to hold Mandrake. it's mainly for technical argument we have choosed gcc2.96 not for following. -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Frederic, Thanks for the response! I guess I need some clarifications: I downloaded the RPMs to update Mandrake 7.2 to kde 2.1 from http://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake/updates/7.2/RPMS/. It does not say anything about "unsupported". How does one know that these updates are unsupported? (Is this problem because the mirror has put the files in a directory without the word "unsupported"?) Are all of the updates in that directory unsupported? Thanks, Randy Kramer Frederic Lepied wrote: No that's wrong, we support upgrade between versions but we don't support upgrade from the unsupported/MandrakeFreq repository of packages. This repository is available as is and we don't make a lot of tests on it. -- Fred - May the source be with you
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
How about: "SUSE is for wimps." "Who wants a lizard on their desktop?" "It's too damn hard to say. (lIn-ucks, LIN-ucks - SUE-za, SUSI) There's already too bloody many acronyms that IT managers mangle in this world. " Just thought I'd spread some laughs. BAFFLE them with Mandrake's MAGIC WAND! Or tell them it's more popular and widely-used, which it is. Ravenhall _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
So sprach Alaric Ravenhall am Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 03:37:17PM -0500: "SUSE is for wimps." "Who wants a lizard on their desktop?" *G* "It's too damn hard to say. (lIn-ucks, LIN-ucks - SUE-za, SUSI) Actually, that's no reason, at least not here in Germany. We know (?) how to pronunce a typical german name :) Or tell them it's more popular and widely-used, which it is. Do you have some facts which would support this? Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die gnstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 10 hours 36 minutes
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Randy Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Frederic, Thanks for the response! I guess I need some clarifications: I downloaded the RPMs to update Mandrake 7.2 to kde 2.1 from http://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake/updates/7.2/RPMS/. It does not say anything about "unsupported". How does one know that these updates are unsupported? (Is this problem because the mirror has put the files in a directory without the word "unsupported"?) Are all of the updates in that directory unsupported? No the updates in this directory are fully supported. -- Fred - May the source be with you
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
So sprach Kevin Krieser am Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 03:17:40PM -0500: I can't find my last Suse Install CD I had bought (6.3), so I can't verify or disprove my memory, but I thought that the reason for this limitation was because of the included, licensed, software provided with it. Which is YaST, btw. It's the YaST license that prohibits this. And this exact YaST license is the reason I also do not want to touch SuSE. Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die guenstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 3 days 13 hours 5 minutes
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
So sprach Alexander 'Digital Projects' Skwar am Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 12:31:18PM +0200: - Acceptance in the USA - Available support contracts Those two questions haven't been answered - does anyone know if I can get support conctracts here in Germany, or much better, worldwide? If so, where? And also the first one is important to me. How accepted is Mandrake in company environments? Are there any hard numbers/facts about big companies using Mandrake? And I've got yet another question: - Future of MandrakeSoft This is, my boss(es) also don't want to chose a companies product when the company is not going to make it the next 1 or 2 years (at the very least!). So, how is the company doing? Thanks for the other answers! Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die guenstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 3 days 13 hours 10 minutes
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
i agree with this and think also that there are less full figured
(although less sexy ?:) distros/setups that would fit the job perfectly
and require less resources.
Senseless abstract OT example:
{
Like don't install 1.6GB of mdk shit on a machine to be used soley as a
LinuxROUTER. You can boot a specialized distro just for that off a
f*ing floppy, no hd required!
}
So so tired
On 06 Apr 2001 17:40:11 +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Vadim Plessky wrote:
Cooker / SRPM availability?
I was not able to find any SRPMs from SuSE on their ftp site (or on rpmfind)
Bad argument. Of course they are there, just a different naming standard.
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/7.1/i386.de/suse/zq1
I frankly don't think there are enough technical reasons to prefer either of
the two distros over the other for this kind of server installation.
I would however always recommend the one that the administrators know best
and are using themselves.
Arnd
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Arnd Bergmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We thought about using Mandrake, but iirc there was no one who could organize free CDs or even printed manuals... [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the contact if you need free cd. -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Saturday 07 April 2001 07:18, Alexander Skwar wrote: | So sprach Vadim Plessky am Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 06:11:30PM +: |Cooker / SRPM availability?+ | | Uhm, although *I* find that quite useful and nice - how can I turn this | into an argument? | | Thanks, | Alexander Skwar Well, what I know from SuSE users (and SuSE Linux funs): -- they are very happy with YaST install -- they like configurability, number of options, etc. in SuSE -- latest version, 7.1, available on DVD, so you don't have to swap 6 CDs in order to find some RPM. Also, install process works very smoothly from one DVD disk. what they do not like: -- latest version of SuSE Linux is not available for *free* download during about 1 - 1.5 months after release. This means, for example - if SuSE 7.1 released Feb.16th, most likely you can't download it from ftp (binaries) till March 16th or even later. -- *I* could not find SRPMs even for released long time ago versions (6.4, 6.3) Thanks Arnd Bergmann for the link - but it's rather difficult to find such link yourslef. Haven't tested this link, though. // disclosure: I could not compile SCWM (window manager) from latest tar.gz available on scwm.sourceforge.net. I found that SuSE includes this WM in their distribution, and was looking for SRPM from it. And, I could not find it... Finally, one SuSE user has sent SRPM to me by mail. That SRPM was patched in sopme way, comparing to original tar.gz, and compiled OK for me. -- IMHO it is much more easy to download SRPM from Cooker or latest stable version of LM. *openability* is great argument, IMHO. Now let me propose some *manager-compatible* arguments: -- One great things in Open Source is possibility to fix bugs fast. Frankly speaking, I don't understand *how* SuSE fixes its bugs. They have a lot of packages (3CD's of binaries), and even with 100 people doing testing it's rather hard to catch all bugs. (if not all - than just *many*) When you select Mandrake - you have better *bug fix rate* -- if there is no place like Cooker - how you can report bug you found in Release, and how long it will take to fix? There is no warranty that bug reported to Cooker will be fixed, but there are good chances it *can* be fixed... -- Mandrake decided to wait several *Kernel cycles*. And that's very good IMHO. Mandrake haven't released 2.4.0 or 2.4.1 kernels, because (I guess, correct me Chmouel if I am wrong) they were just too buggy for mainstream. AFAIK SuSE 7.1 was released with very early (like 2.4.1-1) 2.4. kernel. It's ok for experiments/testing, but not for production systems. -- Mandrake has the best KDE packaging (yes I know that you prefer Gnome to KDE, but for some people, incl. manager, it can be good argument) If you look at different KDE lists (-general, -user) - a lot of people complain on missing RPM packages for RH 7.0, many people have problems with upgrading to KDE 2.1/2.1.1 on SuSE and Caldera, but for Mandrake process is (almost) seamless. But, in any case, it looks like SuSE is second best (after Mandrake) for KDE users. Well, answering your initial request for SAMBA usage - I guess any Linux distro (or LinuxFromScratch) will be ok. -- Vadim Plessky http://kde2.newmail.ru (English) http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html (Russian) Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it! http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Saturday 07 April 2001 08:55, Blue Lizard wrote:
| i agree with this and think also that there are less full figured
| (although less sexy ?:) distros/setups that would fit the job perfectly
| and require less resources.
| Senseless abstract OT example:
| {
| Like don't install 1.6GB of mdk shit on a machine to be used soley as a
| LinuxROUTER. You can boot a specialized distro just for that off a
| f*ing floppy, no hd required!
| }
| So so tired
|
I guess Linux-Mandrake Expert-Minimal setup solves this problem.
I couldn't reach install in 80MB how it was promised by some Mandrakers, but
was able to get it running, together with X, in 180MB. Which is quite good,
IMHO.
BTW: is it possible to install LM 8.0beta3 without X?
And in less than 150MB?
I am still on LM 7.2 footprints so can't test (yet)
--
Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru (English)
http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html (Russian)
Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it!
http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Vadim Plessky [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And that's very good IMHO. Mandrake haven't released 2.4.0 or 2.4.1 kernels, because (I guess, correct me Chmouel if I am wrong) they true, and we still fixing a lot of bugs every day in 2.4.3 :-( -- MandrakeSoft Inc http://www.chmouel.org --Chmouel
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
So sprach Vadim Plessky am Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 03:33:43PM +: -- they are very happy with YaST install Hmm, since SuSE 7.1 is not freely available I cannot test it. So I stick to my ancient knowledge of SuSE 5.3 - and this is, SuSE sucks. -- they like configurability, number of options, etc. in SuSE Uhm, I don't understand this. Is it better than with Mandrake tools? How about Webmin - does it support SuSE? Webmin is a very important tool for me. -- latest version, 7.1, available on DVD, so you don't have to swap 6 CDs in order to find some RPM. Also, install process works very smoothly from one DVD disk. Uhm, we don't have DVD-Roms... what they do not like: -- latest version of SuSE Linux is not available for *free* download during about 1 - 1.5 months after release. Yes, I know. Another reason why I dislike SuSE. -- *I* could not find SRPMs even for released long time ago versions (6.4, 6.3) Thanks Arnd Bergmann for the link - but it's rather difficult to find such link yourslef. Haven't tested this link, though. Hmm, bad, yes. Now let me propose some *manager-compatible* arguments: All were good - greatly appreciated! -- Mandrake has the best KDE packaging (yes I know that you prefer Gnome to KDE, but for some people, incl. manager, it can be good argument) Yes, that's right. And if non-Unix types know, or have heard, something, than I suppose it's KDE. Well, nice thing about Linux - I can install KDE for other people but don't have to use it :) Well, answering your initial request for SAMBA usage - I guess any Linux distro (or LinuxFromScratch) will be ok. Yeah, that's right. I don't "care" much about SAMBA - as you've said, any distribution will probably do. Okay, I now have some quite good arguments for Mandrake vs. SuSE. How about Mandrake vs. RedHat? I don't think this is going to be that easy. How many *SUPPORT* contracts/contractors are available for Mandrake, and how many for RedHat? And which are avaiable? Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die guenstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 3 days 19 hours 22 minutes
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Friday 06 April 2001 12:25, Daniel Serodio wrote: I've never tried SuSE, but I've used Slackware and RedHat for a long time. These are my favourite things about Mandrake: Security - it's got a secure default installation, and they issue security advisories (and the associated update) very often, more often than, say, RedHat. A "minor" feature but one that I like a lot is that it ships with postfix (of course, you can install postfix on any distro). Hardware support - it's the distro that recognizes most hardware. Easy installation - despite its bugs, the installer is the best I've seen. Good luck on your advocating! (I'm also trying to convince my boss to replace RH with Mandrake) Of your reasons, I don't see why you're trying to replace RH. I assume you've set your security correctly already, you've got postfix (if you need it), your current version probably already supports your hardware, and the installation doesn't matter any more. I think your claim that Mandrake ships security updates more often than Red Hat probably can't be backed up by the facts - they're both good and I believe are the leaders in this area. Don't get me wrong - I like Mandrake or I wouldn't be here - but I don't think you've presented any arguments for replacing RH. -- Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Okay, I now have some quite good arguments for Mandrake vs. SuSE. How about Mandrake vs. RedHat? I don't think this is going to be that easy. How many *SUPPORT* contracts/contractors are available for Mandrake, and how many for RedHat? And which are avaiable? Not sure if this is going to count, but when you're trying to win over the bossman it just might. (I'm not sure if you're asking for the information for yourself or to convince the company in general, been too busy to read all the posts.) As a company, RH has run into major troubles recently. Their investors are not happy and when that happens there is no telling what might happen to a company overnight. Mandrake, IMHO, is on the rise They've got a great distro and have been thoroughly testing it to make sure when it hits the streets it will work. The RH release of 7.0 was premature and they did not bother to work out some of the major bugs that would effect a an enterprise environment. It seems to me that Mandrake takes a little more pride in their product rather than rushing to be the next great thing released. Both distributions have developer lists so you can be guaranteed to be on top of the game. You're right though, it is tough to compare the two because they are so close. It may come down to the business aspect or personal preference. my 1.5 cents... back to administrating this network =) -Tim
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Friday 06 April 2001 15:56, Alan Olsen wrote: Another reason to use Mandrake is that programs actually compile under it. (I have been more than a bit frustrated with the odd collection of things that will not compile correctly on Redhat 7.0.) Mandrake does not tend to use experimental versions of GCC or GLIBC. But that's the plan for Mandrake 8.0 - gcc 2.9x *is* an experiemental version of gcc. A darn good compiler, but experimental nonetheless. -- Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
I had trouble upgrading from kde 2.0 to kde 2.1 (on Mandrake 7.2) (possibly because I'm pretty much a newbie). Still, I was disappointed when one of the responses I got from the cooker list was that the binary RPMs to upgrade Mandrake 7.2 to kde 2.1 are unsupported. (I since learned about expert and should have asked for help there, but have not.) It is also disappointing that I did not see any mention of this intent not to support the upgrade to kde 2.1 on the web pages. (To be honest, I have not looked that hard, but it was not obvious when I went to download the rpms.) What is Mandrake's policy on package upgrades? Is it the policy to sell / distribute a given distribution (7.2) and the only supported upgrade path is the next revision of the distribution (8.0)? What is the policy of other distributions? Randy Kramer Vadim Plessky wrote: If you look at different KDE lists (-general, -user) - a lot of people complain on missing RPM packages for RH 7.0, many people have problems with upgrading to KDE 2.1/2.1.1 on SuSE and Caldera, but for Mandrake process is (almost) seamless. But, in any case, it looks like SuSE is second best (after Mandrake) for KDE users.
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Alexander Skwar wrote: So sprach Vadim Plessky am Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 03:33:43PM +: -- they are very happy with YaST install Hmm, since SuSE 7.1 is not freely available I cannot test it. So I stick to my ancient knowledge of SuSE 5.3 - and this is, SuSE sucks. AFAICS, SuSE 7.1 has come available last week, you can do an ftp install from ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/7.1/i386.de/ . I know many people who like YaST because it allows you to install, configure and update the system in a single application without ever editing a config file or entering a command on the shell. Of course that is irrelevant for expert users and I always disliked that it makes a lot harder to understand what is going on and to exploit the power of tools like rpm. -- they like configurability, number of options, etc. in SuSE Uhm, I don't understand this. Is it better than with Mandrake tools? How about Webmin - does it support SuSE? Webmin is a very important tool for me. The point of their configuration system is that everything is kept in a single config file -- rc.config. It is different from what everybody else does, but it has some nice aspects especially for beginners. I don't know anyone using webmin with SuSE. My guess is that it would work alright, but would completely break at the moment that YaST or SuSEConfig is called, which would regenerate some files in /etc from /etc/rc.config. If webmin is required, that would be a good argument against SuSE. The same goes probably for linuxconf and everything else that accesses config files and does not come with suse. -- *I* could not find SRPMs even for released long time ago versions (6.4, 6.3) Thanks Arnd Bergmann for the link - but it's rather difficult to find such link yourslef. Haven't tested this link, though. Hmm, bad, yes. As with everything, it's difficult do find only if you have not used it a lot. For some reason, they are using dos-compatible filenames, so e.g. kdebase-2.0.1-3.src.rpm would become kdebase.spm. The source rpms are located in a directory called zq1, which also seems completely logical to most SuSE users ;-) I did not have any trouble finding the srpms for 5.3, 6.3, 6.4, 7.0 and 7.1, although they may not be as widely spread as other distros. Okay, I now have some quite good arguments for Mandrake vs. SuSE. How about Mandrake vs. RedHat? I don't think this is going to be that easy. How many *SUPPORT* contracts/contractors are available for Mandrake, and how many for RedHat? And which are avaiable? If it will be Mandrake 8.0 vs. Red Hat 7.0, the better argument is probably the versions of the relevant packages, e.g. kernel-2.2.16 and kde-1.1.2 are hardly what I would use for a fresh install. That will of course change with RH7.1, but they can only ask you for an evaluation for the time of the installation. Arnd
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
It is also disappointing that I did not see any mention of this intent not to support the upgrade to kde 2.1 on the web pages. (To be honest, I have not looked that hard, but it was not obvious when I went to download the rpms.) What is Mandrake's policy on package upgrades? Is it the policy to sell / distribute a given distribution (7.2) and the only supported upgrade path is the next revision of the distribution (8.0)? What is the policy of other distributions? With prior version of Mandrake there have always been upgrades available. I think in this case there were just too many changes in the OS to be able to officially support a KDE upgrade. Any operating system will be hard pressed to keep each new version compatible with older ones, and I believe that Mandrake has done all it can to support this. There's always the option of obtaining the freely available source code and compiling it for your system
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Please.. distribution war again? :( On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Alexander Skwar wrote: So sprach Vadim Plessky am Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 03:33:43PM +: -- they are very happy with YaST install Hmm, since SuSE 7.1 is not freely available I cannot test it. So I stick to my ancient knowledge of SuSE 5.3 - and this is, SuSE sucks. -- they like configurability, number of options, etc. in SuSE Uhm, I don't understand this. Is it better than with Mandrake tools? How about Webmin - does it support SuSE? Webmin is a very important tool for me. -- latest version, 7.1, available on DVD, so you don't have to swap 6 CDs in order to find some RPM. Also, install process works very smoothly from one DVD disk. Uhm, we don't have DVD-Roms... what they do not like: -- latest version of SuSE Linux is not available for *free* download during about 1 - 1.5 months after release. Yes, I know. Another reason why I dislike SuSE. -- *I* could not find SRPMs even for released long time ago versions (6.4, 6.3) Thanks Arnd Bergmann for the link - but it's rather difficult to find such link yourslef. Haven't tested this link, though. Hmm, bad, yes. Now let me propose some *manager-compatible* arguments: All were good - greatly appreciated! -- Mandrake has the best KDE packaging (yes I know that you prefer Gnome to KDE, but for some people, incl. manager, it can be good argument) Yes, that's right. And if non-Unix types know, or have heard, something, than I suppose it's KDE. Well, nice thing about Linux - I can install KDE for other people but don't have to use it :) Well, answering your initial request for SAMBA usage - I guess any Linux distro (or LinuxFromScratch) will be ok. Yeah, that's right. I don't "care" much about SAMBA - as you've said, any distribution will probably do. Okay, I now have some quite good arguments for Mandrake vs. SuSE. How about Mandrake vs. RedHat? I don't think this is going to be that easy. How many *SUPPORT* contracts/contractors are available for Mandrake, and how many for RedHat? And which are avaiable? Alexander Skwar
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Alan Olsen wrote: Another reason to use Mandrake is that programs actually compile under it. (I have been more than a bit frustrated with the odd collection of things that will not compile correctly on Redhat 7.0.) Mandrake does not tend to use experimental versions of GCC or GLIBC. Then I guess you should be looking for another distro. Because almost immediately after 7.2 came out of beta testing, Cooker was bumped up to a development version of GCC. Apparently the Red Hat (7.0) bandwagon was still big enough to hold Mandrake. -- Digital Wokan, Tribal Mage of the Electronics Age Guerilla Linux Warrior
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Thanks for the response! Randy Kramer Digital Wokan wrote: Actually, the only problem I had with the KDE2.0/KDE2.1 switch was the need to delete my .kderc and .kde/ subdir (though maybe I could have spared some things the knife). As for Mandrake's update policy, I can't speak for them, but I believe it is that they only support bug fixes to the packages included on the CD's. Updated versions for the sake of updating are not officially supported as those haven't had more stingent testing done on them. Mandrake's good, but they still have only limited resources with which to maintain and promote their distro. Of course, I've had little problem with /unsupported and would recommend it to any home user. (I wouldn't recommend it to any business that wants/needs MandrakeSoft support.)
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
I think you should check out previous threads about this experimental gcc/glibc issue. Now they are stable enough to be used. Maybe LWN (Linux Weekly News) was right yes, redhat has a habit of pushing out experimental stuff and that makes everybody crying with anger, but it's also because of redhat's push that makes experimental softwares mature more quickly. Abel Cheung On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Digital Wokan wrote: Alan Olsen wrote: Another reason to use Mandrake is that programs actually compile under it. (I have been more than a bit frustrated with the odd collection of things that will not compile correctly on Redhat 7.0.) Mandrake does not tend to use experimental versions of GCC or GLIBC. Then I guess you should be looking for another distro. Because almost immediately after 7.2 came out of beta testing, Cooker was bumped up to a development version of GCC. Apparently the Red Hat (7.0) bandwagon was still big enough to hold Mandrake.
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
So sprach Digital Wokan am Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 01:17:31PM -0700: wants/needs MandrakeSoft support.) "MandrakeSoft support"? Is there something like this? What does it all cover? Where can I read up on this? (No, this is no flame...) Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die guenstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 4 days 4 hours 24 minutes
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Ed Wilts wrote: On Friday 06 April 2001 15:56, Alan Olsen wrote: Another reason to use Mandrake is that programs actually compile under it. (I have been more than a bit frustrated with the odd collection of things that will not compile correctly on Redhat 7.0.) Mandrake does not tend to use experimental versions of GCC or GLIBC. But that's the plan for Mandrake 8.0 - gcc 2.9x *is* an experiemental version of gcc. A darn good compiler, but experimental nonetheless. But Redhat used a version that was not to be used for ANY production work. (The GCC people were pretty torked too.) There are versionf of the 2.9x tree that are considered "stable" and there are other parts that are not. They chose from the wrong tree. One of the reasons you have to patch as soon as you install Redhat 7.0. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen| to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. "In the future, everything will have its 15 minutes of blame."
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
So sprach R.I.P. Deaddog am Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 03:04:16AM +0800: Please.. distribution war again? :( No, not at all! I want some pro-Mandrake advocacy. That's basically all. Well, it all should be provable, of course. Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die guenstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 4 days 4 hours 22 minutes
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Hmm. I hope I was right. I could have sworn Mandrake offered support contracts. As is, I can't find anything on their site but a link to MandrakeExpert, and that's not going to go over well with the suits. Alexander Skwar wrote: So sprach Digital Wokan am Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 01:17:31PM -0700: wants/needs MandrakeSoft support.) "MandrakeSoft support"? Is there something like this? What does it all cover? Where can I read up on this? (No, this is no flame...) Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die guenstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 4 days 4 hours 24 minutes -- Digital Wokan, Tribal Mage of the Electronics Age Guerilla Linux Warrior
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Friday 06 April 2001 10:31, Alexander Skwar wrote: | Hi Cookers! | | In my company, we're going to install some Linux servers, which will be | used mainly for Samba. | I'm going to be asked which distribution we should choose. Obviously I'd | want to take Mandrake and most certainly not SuSE which is also close to | being taken. Could somebody provide me with some "manager-compatible" Cooker / SRPM availability? I was not able to find any SRPMs from SuSE on their ftp site (or on rpmfind) | arguments that would back my suggestion? | Important arguments would be: | | - Acceptance in the USA | - Available support contracts | - Number of Mandrake knowledgable people | - Technical issues | - Standards conformance | - ?? | - Ease of use | - Anything else? | | Now, Ease of Use is clearly a big advantage of Mandrake. How about all | those other things? | | Cheers, | | Alexander Skwar -- Vadim Plessky http://kde2.newmail.ru (English) http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html (Russian) Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it! http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Vadim Plessky wrote: Cooker / SRPM availability? I was not able to find any SRPMs from SuSE on their ftp site (or on rpmfind) Bad argument. Of course they are there, just a different naming standard. ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/7.1/i386.de/suse/zq1 I frankly don't think there are enough technical reasons to prefer either of the two distros over the other for this kind of server installation. I would however always recommend the one that the administrators know best and are using themselves. Arnd
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On 06/04/2001 07:31:18 -0300 Alexander Skwar wrote: Hi Cookers! In my company, we're going to install some Linux servers, which will be used mainly for Samba. I'm going to be asked which distribution we should choose. Obviously I'd want to take Mandrake and most certainly not SuSE which is also close to being taken. Could somebody provide me with some "manager-compatible" arguments that would back my suggestion? Important arguments would be: - Acceptance in the USA - Available support contracts - Number of Mandrake knowledgable people - Technical issues - Standards conformance - ?? - Ease of use - Anything else? Now, Ease of Use is clearly a big advantage of Mandrake. How about all those other things? I've never tried SuSE, but I've used Slackware and RedHat for a long time. These are my favourite things about Mandrake: Security - it's got a secure default installation, and they issue security advisories (and the associated update) very often, more often than, say, RedHat. A "minor" feature but one that I like a lot is that it ships with postfix (of course, you can install postfix on any distro). Hardware support - it's the distro that recognizes most hardware. Easy installation - despite its bugs, the installer is the best I've seen. Good luck on your advocating! (I'm also trying to convince my boss to replace RH with Mandrake) -- []'s|.~. Daniel Serodio (lobo on irc)|/V\www.linux.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] | // \\ www.gnu.org | /( )\ www.gnome.org | ^`~'^
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
During the bombing raid on Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:31:18 +0200, Alexander Skwar was heard mumbling in fear: Hi Cookers! In my company, we're going to install some Linux servers, which will be used mainly for Samba. I'm going to be asked which distribution we should choose. Obviously I'd want to take Mandrake and most certainly not SuSE which is also close to being taken. Could somebody provide me with some "manager-compatible" arguments that would back my suggestion? Important arguments would be: - Acceptance in the USA - Available support contracts - Number of Mandrake knowledgable people - Technical issues - Standards conformance - ?? - Ease of use - Anything else? Now, Ease of Use is clearly a big advantage of Mandrake. How about all those other things? I am not sure at this time, it's been a while since last time I touched a SuSe install, but...their license for YAST/YAST2 says (used to say?) that you can't do multiple installs from the same CD...you actually have (had?) to dld an image for each install or buy a boxed set for each boxthis is the #1 reason why I never liked SuSe and never plan on touching itI'm all for companies making money, but I hate restrictions like that. As a matter of fact, that's the main reason why my LUG doesn't use SuSe (2 of the 3 people that take decisions in the LUG use SuSe) during installfests or for the CDs we give away. Also, the security levels of Mandrake give it a big advantage, IMNSHO. Vox -- Pain is the gift of the gods, and I'm the one they chose as their messenger For info on safety in the BDSM lifestyle http://www.the-vox.com Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else.-- Donald B. Marti Jr. Vox populi, vox deii
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
Another reason to use Mandrake is that programs actually compile under it. (I have been more than a bit frustrated with the odd collection of things that will not compile correctly on Redhat 7.0.) Mandrake does not tend to use experimental versions of GCC or GLIBC. On 6 Apr 2001, Vox wrote: During the bombing raid on Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:31:18 +0200, Alexander Skwar was heard mumbling in fear: Hi Cookers! In my company, we're going to install some Linux servers, which will be used mainly for Samba. I'm going to be asked which distribution we should choose. Obviously I'd want to take Mandrake and most certainly not SuSE which is also close to being taken. Could somebody provide me with some "manager-compatible" arguments that would back my suggestion? Important arguments would be: - Acceptance in the USA - Available support contracts - Number of Mandrake knowledgable people - Technical issues - Standards conformance - ?? - Ease of use - Anything else? Now, Ease of Use is clearly a big advantage of Mandrake. How about all those other things? I am not sure at this time, it's been a while since last time I touched a SuSe install, but...their license for YAST/YAST2 says (used to say?) that you can't do multiple installs from the same CD...you actually have (had?) to dld an image for each install or buy a boxed set for each boxthis is the #1 reason why I never liked SuSe and never plan on touching itI'm all for companies making money, but I hate restrictions like that. As a matter of fact, that's the main reason why my LUG doesn't use SuSe (2 of the 3 people that take decisions in the LUG use SuSe) during installfests or for the CDs we give away. Also, the security levels of Mandrake give it a big advantage, IMNSHO. Vox -- Pain is the gift of the gods, and I'm the one they chose as their messenger For info on safety in the BDSM lifestyle http://www.the-vox.com Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else. -- Donald B. Marti Jr. Vox populi, vox deii [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen| to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. "In the future, everything will have its 15 minutes of blame."
RE: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
I can't find my last Suse Install CD I had bought (6.3), so I can't verify or disprove my memory, but I thought that the reason for this limitation was because of the included, licensed, software provided with it. At a time, several Linux vendors would have to include some comercial software, such as X servers, when XFree86 didn't support as many cards. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Vox Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake... During the bombing raid on Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:31:18 +0200, Alexander Skwar was heard mumbling in fear: Hi Cookers! In my company, we're going to install some Linux servers, which will be used mainly for Samba. I'm going to be asked which distribution we should choose. Obviously I'd want to take Mandrake and most certainly not SuSE which is also close to being taken. Could somebody provide me with some "manager-compatible" arguments that would back my suggestion? Important arguments would be: - Acceptance in the USA - Available support contracts - Number of Mandrake knowledgable people - Technical issues - Standards conformance - ?? - Ease of use - Anything else? Now, Ease of Use is clearly a big advantage of Mandrake. How about all those other things? I am not sure at this time, it's been a while since last time I touched a SuSe install, but...their license for YAST/YAST2 says (used to say?) that you can't do multiple installs from the same CD...you actually have (had?) to dld an image for each install or buy a boxed set for each boxthis is the #1 reason why I never liked SuSe and never plan on touching itI'm all for companies making money, but I hate restrictions like that. As a matter of fact, that's the main reason why my LUG doesn't use SuSe (2 of the 3 people that take decisions in the LUG use SuSe) during installfests or for the CDs we give away. Also, the security levels of Mandrake give it a big advantage, IMNSHO. Vox -- Pain is the gift of the gods, and I'm the one they chose as their messenger For info on safety in the BDSM lifestyle http://www.the-vox.com Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else. -- Donald B. Marti Jr. Vox populi, vox deii
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
On 6 Apr 2001, Vox wrote: I am not sure at this time, it's been a while since last time I touched a SuSe install, but..their license for YAST/YAST2 says (used to say?) that you can't do multiple installs from the same CD...you actually have (had?) to dld an image for each install or buy a boxed set for each boxthis is the #1 reason why I never liked SuSe and never plan on touching itI'm all for Their current license is from 1998 and it definitely does allow multiple installations from one CD. However, you may not copy and distribute the installation media without permission (which e.g. my University has). The restriction is not nice, but it is not really an argument to pursuade the management. companies making money, but I hate restrictions like that. As a matter of fact, that's the main reason why my LUG doesn't use SuSe (2 of the 3 people that take decisions in the LUG use SuSe) during installfests or for the CDs we give away. Interesting. Our LUG always used SuSE for installfests, because they send us free up-to-date 'evaluation' CDs and at least once cheap (5 Euro) shrink-wrap boxes of the previous version. We thought about using Mandrake, but iirc there was no one who could organize free CDs or even printed manuals... Arnd
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
During the bombing raid on Fri, 6 Apr 2001 23:45:25 +0200 (MET DST), Arnd Bergmann was heard mumbling in fear: On 6 Apr 2001, Vox wrote: I am not sure at this time, it's been a while since last time I touched a SuSe install, but..their license for YAST/YAST2 says (used to say?) that you can't do multiple installs from the same CD...you actually have (had?) to dld an image for each install or buy a boxed set for each boxthis is the #1 reason why I never liked SuSe and never plan on touching itI'm all for Their current license is from 1998 and it definitely does allow multiple installations from one CD. However, you may not copy and distribute the installation media without permission (which e.g. my University has). The restriction is not nice, but it is not really an argument to pursuade the management. That's true...if the license allows multiple instalations from a single media, then you have no problems, as far as management goes. companies making money, but I hate restrictions like that. As a matter of fact, that's the main reason why my LUG doesn't use SuSe (2 of the 3 people that take decisions in the LUG use SuSe) during installfests or for the CDs we give away. Interesting. Our LUG always used SuSE for installfests, because they send us free up-to-date 'evaluation' CDs and at least once cheap (5 Euro) shrink-wrap boxes of the previous version. We thought about using Mandrake, but iirc there was no one who could organize free CDs or even printed manuals... Well...we make our own CDs :) As for manuals, we point the people to the site of the linux documentation in Spanish projectmanuals in spanish are not easy to come by, unfortunately, so we have to survive with the web. On the other hand, it allows us to just burn our own CDs and be done with it, not to worry about manuals and stuff :) Vox -- Pain is the gift of the gods, and I'm the one they chose as their messenger For info on safety in the BDSM lifestyle http://www.the-vox.com Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else.-- Donald B. Marti Jr. Vox populi, vox deii
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
"Vox" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Well...we make our own CDs :) As for manuals, we point the people to the site of the linux documentation in Spanish projectmanuals in spanish But I think there is a spanish retail version of Mandrake? It probably include manuals in spanish language... -- Guillaume Cottenceau - http://us.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
"guillaume" == Guillaume Cottenceau [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: guillaume "Vox" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: guillaume [...] Well...we make our own CDs :) As for manuals, we point the people to the site of the linux documentation in Spanish projectmanuals in spanish guillaume But I think there is a spanish retail version of Mandrake? It probably guillaume include manuals in spanish language... I have one copy here, and the manuals are in Spanish for sure :) Later, Juan. -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different -- Larry McVoy
Re: [Cooker] Reasons FOR Mandrake...
During the bombing raid on 07 Apr 2001 00:24:38 +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau was heard mumbling in fear: "Vox" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Well...we make our own CDs :) As for manuals, we point the people to the site of the linux documentation in Spanish projectmanuals in spanish But I think there is a spanish retail version of Mandrake? It probably include manuals in spanish language... Mmmdoes this mean Mandrake is willing to give us some? :) hehehe we are a poor LUG (and I mean it when I say poor...our treasurer has about 20 pesos (that's a bit over 2 USDlls) right now chuckle :) Vox, who'd love to get some free mandrake boxed sets in spanish to give out in their next installfest :) Vox -- Pain is the gift of the gods, and I'm the one they chose as their messenger For info on safety in the BDSM lifestyle http://www.the-vox.com Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else.-- Donald B. Marti Jr. Vox populi, vox deii
