Re: [Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] cups-1.1.19-10mdk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Till Kamppeter wrote: > In my opinion this is a show-stopper, report a "blocker" bug and inform > Warly. > I tried posting this one, but my proxy server complained a malformed url during posting. I will try and post it later without a proxy (from home): Version: 9.2-11mdk Component: DrakConnect: Mandrake Network configuration tool Summary: Drakconnect hostname configuration is non-intuitive, leading to bad configurations Severity: blocker "The biggest problem with drakconnect, is that by default (if the user does not use any advanced or expert buttons) the machine will end up with a hostname of localhost. The problem is that any service which advertises the servers name to other machines, they will see the localhost, and connect to themselves. Common failures include: - -Windows machines being unable to connect to a samba server running on such a machine - -CUPS machines unable to print to a server on such a machine (except that Till patched CUPS to prevent this now - which should not be necessary) - -Redirects by a web server will redirect to 'localhost' in some cases (IIRC with Location's accessed without a trailing slash) - -Postfix will complain at startup - -Any SSL certificates generated automatically will have the name 'localhost' on the cert, instead of the real hostname. Specifically, note that no two Mandrake machines would be able to join a Windows domain unless the installer would know to change the hostname entry in expert mode in drakconnect. Also, if the user only sets the zeroconf name, they will also be registering a zeroconf name that does not match their hostname. The 2nd problem is that by default, the configured hostname is not supplied with the DHCP query. This means that on networks that use DDNS, the DNS entries will not be made by the DHCP server, and the machine will not get an FQDN as hostname. Note, that Windows by default does both of these, so this is the expected behaviour. My proposal is that Drakconnect should: - -By default propmt the user for one hostname, which shall be supplied as HOSTNAME in /etc/sysconfig/network and as DHCP_HOSTNAME in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth* - -By default not touch /etc/tmdns.conf. tmdns will by default register `hostname` as the zeroconf name. I haven't found a scenario where the user would want zeroconf to claim a different name than the hostname. If it is necessary, the expert modes should allow the following: - -Edit the DHCP_HOSTNAME value (but it should still default to the hostname entered), per interface - -Allow the user to use a different zeroconf name (though, why this would be useful is beyond me). I am sorry this bug was filed so late, but there have been many discussions on cooker on this. The drakconnect maintainer has participated in some of them, but has not replied to any of the suggestions or proposals. And still, we have a distribution where if the user sets the most visible hostname, when they log in, they find their hostname is localhost, and where software's default configuration is broken, and certain features (such as Windows Domain authentication) are virtually impossible to use." Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/a1/7rJK6UGDSBKcRAq1oAJ4yF8k58ht5AEj9detP8CCrt2OPZACdHAcD zi9ZJan7oaEqtpGBzCiP/Bw= =P2Ez -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] cups-1.1.19-10mdk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Simon Oosthoek wrote: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 05:01:09PM +0200, Buchan Milne wrote: > IMHO, drakconnect's job is to ensure: 1)The hostname is never set to localhost if there is any networking device attached to the machine in question 2)Reverse lookups will always work. In the case of DHCP, drakconnect should ensure that the hostname is sent as DHCP_HOSTNAME (in which case we hope the DHCP administrator has working DDNS), and doesn't touch tmdns.conf. In the case of no DHCP, tmdns.conf is not touched (and we hope the other machines have working tmdns). >> >>Someone needs to take action, and advice from the community, on this for >>10 IMHO. I have to remember to use the advanced button twice in >>drakconnect to get the behaviour I want (the default in Windows), and >>enter the same hostname 3 times (instead of just once like in Windows). > > > There are some things to consider in this context > > - hosts that move about > - hosts never connected to a network > - hosts always connected to a single network > - hosts connected to multiple networks > > A solution that comes to mind is to copy the concept of "nodename" from > solaris. A machine is a node, regardless of its network connections, so that > should always be the local machine (resolve to 127.0.0.1 and visa versa). > Optionally this can overlap with the name associated with an internet > connection. > > The FQDN (if it exists) of each connected network should be resolvable on > the host, so either through /etc/hosts or a nameservice. > > The flexibility of laptops and desktop-pc's requires a totally different > attitude towards network configuration than is common for server machines. > > Perhaps this is the basis for all the problems associated with network > configuration on mandrake/linux? No. The only relevant one, to which there is no real solution, is machines changing their FQDN (X doesn't like this) while someone is logged in. 80% of the problems could (IMHO - I could be wrong of course) be solved by: - -asking for one hostname by default - -Setting this name as HOSTNAME in /etc/sysconfig/network - -Setting this name as DHCP_HOSTNAME in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth* - -Leaving /etc/tmdns.conf alone (it will be default use `hostname`, which is what you want in > 95% of the cases In advanced mode, you would want to: - -Be able to choose not to send a dhcp hostname (I have never needed this, but I assume since by default it is blank, that for some purposes you would not want to set it), or set a different hostname. This should be per-interface of course. - -Be able to set a different zeroconf hostname (though I don't know why, except maybe if your provider has DNS/DHCP and you want the hostname to match it but be visible on zeroconf machines with a different name?). Currently, By default, if a user doesn't use the "advanced" buttons, they end up with: - -localhost as hostname - -on a Dynamic DNS network (DHCP doing DNS registrations for clients on successful lease), even if they fix the hostname, they get no DNS entries, until they run drakconnect *again* to set the dhcp_hostname This is just plain backwards, and will result in a number of services either being misconfigured (ie not working from other clients) or complaining about it (postfix will complain if `hostname` == "localhost"). Regards, Buchan [Warly, Till thinks this issue should be fixed before final release, which is why you're getting 2 copies] - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/ayXlrJK6UGDSBKcRAhHKAKCMVZoE2GJeuMFxdEP59NjChxpljQCfYf6E Q1xFSLWlRXKJxvue93Q/5Co= =9bUU -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] cups-1.1.19-10mdk
In my opinion this is a show-stopper, report a "blocker" bug and inform Warly. Till Buchan Milne wrote: Till Kamppeter wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, it seems cups admits defeat to drakconnect ... IMHO, drakconnect's job is to ensure: 1)The hostname is never set to localhost if there is any networking device attached to the machine in question 2)Reverse lookups will always work. In the case of DHCP, drakconnect should ensure that the hostname is sent as DHCP_HOSTNAME (in which case we hope the DHCP administrator has working DDNS), and doesn't touch tmdns.conf. In the case of no DHCP, tmdns.conf is not touched (and we hope the other machines have working tmdns). I didn´t know that this was a long-standing in drakconnect (or even in the former draknet). Otherwise I had perhaps tried to press the drakconnect guys to fix it (posting bug with "blocker" priority and more ...). I thought it was a fault of CUPS and so I fixed CUPS. In addition, this fix also works when one uses other network config tools or does a faulty configuration manually. This makes CUPS in our default configuration more or less "idiot-proof". But in general, it is better to fix the bugs at their origins instead of making workarounds. See "Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning" and "Pathetic that box is to be named 'localhost' when using DNS" threads in cooker. Someone needs to take action, and advice from the community, on this for 10 IMHO. I have to remember to use the advanced button twice in drakconnect to get the behaviour I want (the default in Windows), and enter the same hostname 3 times (instead of just once like in Windows). Regards, Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] cups-1.1.19-10mdk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -=-=-=- Name: cups Relocations: (not relocateable) Version : 1.1.19Vendor: MandrakeSoft Release : 10mdk Build Date: Thu 18 Sep 2003 04:24:28 AM CEST Install Date: (not installed) Build Host: no.mandrakesoft.com Group : System/Servers Source RPM: (none) Size: 3791412 License: GPL Signature : (none) Packager: Till Kamppeter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> URL : http://www.cups.org Summary : Common Unix Printing System - Server package Description : -=-=-=- Till Kamppeter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 1.1.19-10mdk - Fixed bug 5615 by means of the following two changes: o Make the CUPS daemon not sending broadcast packages with the host name "localhost". In this case the IP address of the appropriate interface is used (patch 22). o Do not insert "ServerName" directives in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf any more during the startup of CUPS (with the /usr/sbin/correctcupsconfig script). Hmm, it seems cups admits defeat to drakconnect ... IMHO, drakconnect's job is to ensure: 1)The hostname is never set to localhost if there is any networking device attached to the machine in question 2)Reverse lookups will always work. In the case of DHCP, drakconnect should ensure that the hostname is sent as DHCP_HOSTNAME (in which case we hope the DHCP administrator has working DDNS), and doesn't touch tmdns.conf. In the case of no DHCP, tmdns.conf is not touched (and we hope the other machines have working tmdns). I didn´t know that this was a long-standing in drakconnect (or even in the former draknet). Otherwise I had perhaps tried to press the drakconnect guys to fix it (posting bug with "blocker" priority and more ...). I thought it was a fault of CUPS and so I fixed CUPS. In addition, this fix also works when one uses other network config tools or does a faulty configuration manually. This makes CUPS in our default configuration more or less "idiot-proof". But in general, it is better to fix the bugs at their origins instead of making workarounds. Till
Re: [Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] cups-1.1.19-10mdk
On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 05:01:09PM +0200, Buchan Milne wrote: > >> IMHO, drakconnect's job is to ensure: > >> 1)The hostname is never set to localhost if there is any networking > >> device > >> attached to the machine in question > >> 2)Reverse lookups will always work. In the case of DHCP, drakconnect > >> should ensure that the hostname is sent as DHCP_HOSTNAME (in which > >> case we > >> hope the DHCP administrator has working DDNS), and doesn't touch > >> tmdns.conf. In the case of no DHCP, tmdns.conf is not touched (and we > >> hope > >> the other machines have working tmdns). > > Someone needs to take action, and advice from the community, on this for > 10 IMHO. I have to remember to use the advanced button twice in > drakconnect to get the behaviour I want (the default in Windows), and > enter the same hostname 3 times (instead of just once like in Windows). There are some things to consider in this context - hosts that move about - hosts never connected to a network - hosts always connected to a single network - hosts connected to multiple networks A solution that comes to mind is to copy the concept of "nodename" from solaris. A machine is a node, regardless of its network connections, so that should always be the local machine (resolve to 127.0.0.1 and visa versa). Optionally this can overlap with the name associated with an internet connection. The FQDN (if it exists) of each connected network should be resolvable on the host, so either through /etc/hosts or a nameservice. The flexibility of laptops and desktop-pc's requires a totally different attitude towards network configuration than is common for server machines. Perhaps this is the basis for all the problems associated with network configuration on mandrake/linux? I hope a rewrite of drakconnect for ML++ will be addressing these issues! Cheers Simon
Re: [Cooker] Re: [CHRPM] cups-1.1.19-10mdk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Till Kamppeter wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Hmm, it seems cups admits defeat to drakconnect ... >> >> IMHO, drakconnect's job is to ensure: >> 1)The hostname is never set to localhost if there is any networking >> device >> attached to the machine in question >> 2)Reverse lookups will always work. In the case of DHCP, drakconnect >> should ensure that the hostname is sent as DHCP_HOSTNAME (in which >> case we >> hope the DHCP administrator has working DDNS), and doesn't touch >> tmdns.conf. In the case of no DHCP, tmdns.conf is not touched (and we >> hope >> the other machines have working tmdns). >> > > I didn´t know that this was a long-standing in drakconnect (or even in > the former draknet). Otherwise I had perhaps tried to press the > drakconnect guys to fix it (posting bug with "blocker" priority and more > ...). I thought it was a fault of CUPS and so I fixed CUPS. In addition, > this fix also works when one uses other network config tools or does a > faulty configuration manually. This makes CUPS in our default > configuration more or less "idiot-proof". But in general, it is better > to fix the bugs at their origins instead of making workarounds. > See "Setting of name for 'localhost' is malfunctioning" and "Pathetic that box is to be named 'localhost' when using DNS" threads in cooker. Someone needs to take action, and advice from the community, on this for 10 IMHO. I have to remember to use the advanced button twice in drakconnect to get the behaviour I want (the default in Windows), and enter the same hostname 3 times (instead of just once like in Windows). Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/axo1rJK6UGDSBKcRAjYMAJ9Aytsd3BjsCG4sCT1HkIhKz/PV8gCeOvHC WhRq/XX5z2X5WCdKkdXe3XQ= =akXG -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
