Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant, gibberish,out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Levi Ramsey wrote: > On Wed Jun 04 14:14 -0400, Jason Straight wrote: >>Perhaps during install asking if the system will be used as a server it should >>not have ifplugd? > > > I've proposed it before, but here goes again: > > Why not have multiple editions of MandrakeLinux based on use profile, > all of which are subsets of Cooker (ie different priority files for the > image-making scripts)? > Because it's not easy to get such profiles which will be any better than the current defaults. A server running a DSL connection will *want* ifplugd, while on it's internal interface will most likely not want ifplugd. IMHO, it is a bug to run ifplugd on a statically cionfigured interface, and since most interfaces you don't want to run ifplugd on are static, we solve the problem without extra complication. However, what would be nice would be a standardised method for making such profiles, which are used at runtime. I am quite sure most of this can be done via the auto-install stuff, but if additional configuration screens could be loaded that way too (maybe they can?), then it would allow better installation support. But then again, why restrict such features to installation, when they could be available afterwards also? Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+321arJK6UGDSBKcRAnYDAJ4iAH0ShJM9w/RWoWdDSkF1XjBgVQCdFuAT Jd6iT8AJi3j0T3sR/OcSS5Q= =mH+8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant, gibberish, out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
On Wed Jun 04 14:14 -0400, Jason Straight wrote: > On Wednesday 04 June 2003 02:06 pm, Adam Williamson wrote: > > Doesn't ifplugd also solve the problem some saw where, if they happened > > to be disconnected from the network for some reason, it would sit there > > on boot trying to get an IP address for five minutes? ISTR that's one of > > its functions, anyway. > > If that's true I digress. I must say I hate waiting for dhcp to timeout to get > a useable system when I've used it in the past. ifplugd is ok by me if that > alone is true :) > > Perhaps during install asking if the system will be used as a server it should > not have ifplugd? I've proposed it before, but here goes again: Why not have multiple editions of MandrakeLinux based on use profile, all of which are subsets of Cooker (ie different priority files for the image-making scripts)? -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Take due notice and govern yourself accordingly. GPG Fingerprint: 354C 7A02 77C5 9EE7 8538 4E8D DCD9 B4B0 DC35 67CD Currently playing: Corrosion of Conformity - Wiseblood - Bottom Feeder Linux 2.4.21-0.15mdk 11:20:00 up 4 days, 44 min, 7 users, load average: 0.08, 0.08, 0.06
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant,gibberish, out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
On Wednesday 04 June 2003 12:02 pm, Jason Straight wrote: > I wish it would just > leave them alone - if I configure something my way I don't expect some > program to go and take the liberty of changing it for what it thinks I > want. I agree with this part 1% ! ! After trying Red Hat 8 and SuSE 8.2 I really have a bad taste in my mouth for the system not allowing or changing configurations by the root user. PLEASE Mandrake DON'T do it the same way, leave the configuration the way I set it. -- Ken Thompson WA7SYR Payette, Idaho Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux- Coming Soon To A Desktop Near You Registered Linux User #183936
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant,gibberish, out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 04 June 2003 11:02, Jason Straight wrote: > I'm not saying drop it - but why (by default) configure mdk install for > laptops? If that's the case why not have APM configured to suspend after 10 > mins of inactivity? Or configure the system to only flush buffers to HD > every 2 hrs to save battery? > > I use a laptop - I don't use ifp Look I run small networks here also and I can tell you it's nice if for only one reason on servers or well network sharing servers especially. The dsl here is usually set up so a whole office can share one connection. Before when the dsl or cable service went batty ( which happened on cable more than I would even like to talk about) the connection sharing server would literally bang away until it restored serveice. When this occurred it would degrade every system on the network. I mean every system would almost come to a screeching halt. This situation was very bad. With the new setup is it very nice and manageable if the service goes down. I like this very much and helps to a very great degree over the way it was setup on 8.2 and down. - -- New and improved with advanced outlook crash handler. -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- Brook Humphrey Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107 http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Holiness unto the Lord -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+3kTGnT1TkA6FgPgRAmElAJ0Stb0p6QhC1pEITn5kleig7zHzuwCfTV2G q08mT8BKH7y3G/Z+dA7nctU= =qTOb -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant, gibberish,out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jason Straight wrote: > On Wednesday 04 June 2003 02:06 pm, Adam Williamson wrote: > > Perhaps during install asking if the system will be used as a server it should > not have ifplugd? Well, it is there in the network config dialog if you run it in expert mode, you may have to run it again from the summary screen to get to it though (my drakx screenshots for 9.1 aren't handy now). Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+3j2srJK6UGDSBKcRAsSbAKClbTKRiJTVFNqKO6uLMAFE+W7GYwCgv2Ck zzkaWb21EtfD1+NFBjBvUQ0= =WkaT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant,gibberish,out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jason Straight wrote: > On Wednesday 04 June 2003 01:42 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: >>>2. Who ever switches network cables and needs to have it reconfigured for >>>them? >> >>Users (ie not admins). >> >> >>>I mean how often does someone really travel to another location with >>>another network and not reboot and restart? >> >>Every time they us a cross-over cable to transfer something. > > That happens more often than using mdk on desktops? > Since it is done with many of the desktops (most users only have one network point near them, if they want to transfer files to a laptop, they use the cross-over cable). So, using a crossover cable between two machines is much more common than using mdk on desktops, and not having it working on mdk desktops could kill our plans ... > >>Do you really think I want to tell our director over an international >>cellphone call how to restart the network and/or configure routes to >>transfer files to a windows machine which has now auto-configured itself? > > > ifplugd is only going to restart ethX with the config in the ifup script, so > it's going to come back up the same way anyway - so if it's DHCP it's not > that hard to have him run dhclient to renew. > And it's also not difficult to compile a kernel, if you know how ... >>It's not dangerous, it only highilghted the dangers you had in your >>network (ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 would have killed your network in the >>same way ...). > > > Yeah, but I would have done that manually and would expect it You would still be vulnerable ... > - I didn't > expect 3 machines to die when I restarted the switch and not come back up > with the routes and arp config the way I left them. Automation like that is > anal. I have problems with XP disabling the wireless clients sometimes > because of the hotplug detect network connection it has. I wish it would just > leave them alone - if I configure something my way I don't expect some > program to go and take the liberty of changing it for what it thinks I want. Well, AFAIK, you can't even disable this on Windows, and you can easily on Mandrake. Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+3jq7rJK6UGDSBKcRAivuAJ9Bk1RvTK0WfEP0/koylc1H+kwbxwCdF9dE 3ANNrxE3RYS9ru4TCzFNv4M= =Yr3V -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant, gibberish, out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
On Wednesday 04 June 2003 02:06 pm, Adam Williamson wrote: > Doesn't ifplugd also solve the problem some saw where, if they happened > to be disconnected from the network for some reason, it would sit there > on boot trying to get an IP address for five minutes? ISTR that's one of > its functions, anyway. If that's true I digress. I must say I hate waiting for dhcp to timeout to get a useable system when I've used it in the past. ifplugd is ok by me if that alone is true :) Perhaps during install asking if the system will be used as a server it should not have ifplugd? -- Jason Straight [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq: 1796276 pgp: http://www.JeetKuneDoMaster.net/~jason/pubkey.asc
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant, gibberish, out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
On Wed, 2003-06-04 at 18:42, Buchan Milne wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Jason Straight wrote: > > Ok, now that I've taken time to collect myself and calm the fsck down. > > > > Why is ifplugd default? > > > > If it's for laptop users who switch network locations: > > > > 1. Why build the distro for laptops when more use it on desktops? > > Let's drop SCSI support while we're at it? What about firewire (I mean, > how many desktops ship with firewire ports compared to laptops) and > support for LCD panels? Doesn't ifplugd also solve the problem some saw where, if they happened to be disconnected from the network for some reason, it would sit there on boot trying to get an IP address for five minutes? ISTR that's one of its functions, anyway. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant,gibberish, out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
On Wednesday 04 June 2003 01:42 pm, Buchan Milne wrote: > Jason Straight wrote: > > Ok, now that I've taken time to collect myself and calm the fsck down. > > > > Why is ifplugd default? > > > > If it's for laptop users who switch network locations: > > > > 1. Why build the distro for laptops when more use it on desktops? > > Let's drop SCSI support while we're at it? What about firewire (I mean, > how many desktops ship with firewire ports compared to laptops) and > support for LCD panels? I'm not saying drop it - but why (by default) configure mdk install for laptops? If that's the case why not have APM configured to suspend after 10 mins of inactivity? Or configure the system to only flush buffers to HD every 2 hrs to save battery? I use a laptop - I don't use ifplugd. > > 2. Who ever switches network cables and needs to have it reconfigured for > > them? > > Users (ie not admins). > > > I mean how often does someone really travel to another location with > > another network and not reboot and restart? > > Every time they us a cross-over cable to transfer something. That happens more often than using mdk on desktops? > Do you really think I want to tell our director over an international > cellphone call how to restart the network and/or configure routes to > transfer files to a windows machine which has now auto-configured itself? ifplugd is only going to restart ethX with the config in the ifup script, so it's going to come back up the same way anyway - so if it's DHCP it's not that hard to have him run dhclient to renew. > > 3. Most people who roam around and hotplug network would be on > > wireless, which > > > takes care of that in it's own configuration (pcmcia), not ifplugd. > > For PCMCIA users, it is not too much of a problem, if you're prepared to > tell them to pop the card every time they plug into a different network > (ie cross-over cable), but for on-board ethernet cards that's not possible. > > > I just don't understand who would want ifplugd? It's a dangerous thing > > that > > > caused problems on machines that I would never have put a utility like > > that > > > on, but I didn't know and didn't have any warning. > > It's not dangerous, it only highilghted the dangers you had in your > network (ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 would have killed your network in the > same way ...). Yeah, but I would have done that manually and would expect it - I didn't expect 3 machines to die when I restarted the switch and not come back up with the routes and arp config the way I left them. Automation like that is anal. I have problems with XP disabling the wireless clients sometimes because of the hotplug detect network connection it has. I wish it would just leave them alone - if I configure something my way I don't expect some program to go and take the liberty of changing it for what it thinks I want. > Buchan -- Jason Straight [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq: 1796276 pgp: http://www.JeetKuneDoMaster.net/~jason/pubkey.asc
Re: [Cooker] why have ifplugd default? (Was super-rant,gibberish,out-of-line, spontanious - sorry ;)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jason Straight wrote: > Ok, now that I've taken time to collect myself and calm the fsck down. > > Why is ifplugd default? > > If it's for laptop users who switch network locations: > > 1. Why build the distro for laptops when more use it on desktops? Let's drop SCSI support while we're at it? What about firewire (I mean, how many desktops ship with firewire ports compared to laptops) and support for LCD panels? > 2. Who ever switches network cables and needs to have it reconfigured for > them? Users (ie not admins). > I mean how often does someone really travel to another location with > another network and not reboot and restart? Every time they us a cross-over cable to transfer something. Do you really think I want to tell our director over an international cellphone call how to restart the network and/or configure routes to transfer files to a windows machine which has now auto-configured itself? > 3. Most people who roam around and hotplug network would be on wireless, which > takes care of that in it's own configuration (pcmcia), not ifplugd. > For PCMCIA users, it is not too much of a problem, if you're prepared to tell them to pop the card every time they plug into a different network (ie cross-over cable), but for on-board ethernet cards that's not possible. > I just don't understand who would want ifplugd? It's a dangerous thing that > caused problems on machines that I would never have put a utility like that > on, but I didn't know and didn't have any warning. It's not dangerous, it only highilghted the dangers you had in your network (ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 would have killed your network in the same way ...). Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+3i9orJK6UGDSBKcRAqhuAJ9/A9J2j+yW9MsvuyEocRZT6wYGwQCeKuVp OAB2/qvPy6PY/R4FawDgYuw= =qQ7h -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. **
