Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[Julius Werner]

How about just changing the die() into a printk(BIOS_ALERT, ...) and an
assert(0)? Then people could use CONFIG_FATAL_ASSERTS to select whether
they would rather fail fast or try to keep booting as far as possible.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 7:46 AM, ron minnich  wrote:

> For those of us working on boards that don't ship in a product, the die()
> is probably not appropriate. But  if you intend to ship a real product then
> you definitely want to die() if someone tries to use a CPU that's not
> tested on the board.
>
> Or at least that's the way it seems to me.
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 7:42 AM Aaron Durbin via coreboot <
> coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 5:04 AM,   wrote:
>> > Yes, this die() is what i mean. Try to get maybe some functionality is i
>> > think better then just stopping there and providing zero functionality.
>> >
>> > I also know, that there is a message when the CPUID is not known. Its
>> about
>> > the die() afterwards.
>>
>> Patches always welcome. Did you try removing the die() and seeing if
>> things actually booted?
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > 23. Feb 2017 14:31 by coreboot@coreboot.org:
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 2:39 AM, Nico Huber  wrote:
>> >
>> > On 23.02.2017 00:07, i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com wrote:
>> >
>> > There is a Filter to stop booting when the CPUID is not in a list of
>> > supported CPUs. This filter does not make sense in the real world usage.
>> >
>> >
>> > It's not a filter. It's a measure to know which code to run for which
>> > CPU. Please dig a little deeper before making such useless complaints.
>> >
>> >
>> > To add to Nico's point: the cpuid list is a way to bind code code to
>> > run for certain devices -- including CPUs. If the cpuid is not listed
>> > then the match on device->code to run is not met. Therefore, the code
>> > necessary to make that CPU work won't ever be ran. src/arch/x86/cpu.c
>> > has the cpu driver binding. And there already is message printed. See
>> > the callers of set_cpu_ops() in that file. The issue is that we die()
>> > when no match is found. We could attempt to boot further, but there's
>> > no guarantee it'd actually succeed.
>> >
>> >
>> > Nico
>> >
>> > --
>> > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
>> > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
>> > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>>
>> --
>> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
>> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>>
>
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> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[ron minnich]

For those of us working on boards that don't ship in a product, the die()
is probably not appropriate. But  if you intend to ship a real product then
you definitely want to die() if someone tries to use a CPU that's not
tested on the board.

Or at least that's the way it seems to me.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 7:42 AM Aaron Durbin via coreboot <
coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 5:04 AM,   wrote:
> > Yes, this die() is what i mean. Try to get maybe some functionality is i
> > think better then just stopping there and providing zero functionality.
> >
> > I also know, that there is a message when the CPUID is not known. Its
> about
> > the die() afterwards.
>
> Patches always welcome. Did you try removing the die() and seeing if
> things actually booted?
>
> >
> >
> > 23. Feb 2017 14:31 by coreboot@coreboot.org:
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 2:39 AM, Nico Huber  wrote:
> >
> > On 23.02.2017 00:07, i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com wrote:
> >
> > There is a Filter to stop booting when the CPUID is not in a list of
> > supported CPUs. This filter does not make sense in the real world usage.
> >
> >
> > It's not a filter. It's a measure to know which code to run for which
> > CPU. Please dig a little deeper before making such useless complaints.
> >
> >
> > To add to Nico's point: the cpuid list is a way to bind code code to
> > run for certain devices -- including CPUs. If the cpuid is not listed
> > then the match on device->code to run is not met. Therefore, the code
> > necessary to make that CPU work won't ever be ran. src/arch/x86/cpu.c
> > has the cpu driver binding. And there already is message printed. See
> > the callers of set_cpu_ops() in that file. The issue is that we die()
> > when no match is found. We could attempt to boot further, but there's
> > no guarantee it'd actually succeed.
> >
> >
> > Nico
> >
> > --
> > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
> >
> >
> > --
> > coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> > https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
> --
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> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[Aaron Durbin via coreboot]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 5:04 AM,   wrote:
> Yes, this die() is what i mean. Try to get maybe some functionality is i
> think better then just stopping there and providing zero functionality.
>
> I also know, that there is a message when the CPUID is not known. Its about
> the die() afterwards.

Patches always welcome. Did you try removing the die() and seeing if
things actually booted?

>
>
> 23. Feb 2017 14:31 by coreboot@coreboot.org:
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 2:39 AM, Nico Huber  wrote:
>
> On 23.02.2017 00:07, i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com wrote:
>
> There is a Filter to stop booting when the CPUID is not in a list of
> supported CPUs. This filter does not make sense in the real world usage.
>
>
> It's not a filter. It's a measure to know which code to run for which
> CPU. Please dig a little deeper before making such useless complaints.
>
>
> To add to Nico's point: the cpuid list is a way to bind code code to
> run for certain devices -- including CPUs. If the cpuid is not listed
> then the match on device->code to run is not met. Therefore, the code
> necessary to make that CPU work won't ever be ran. src/arch/x86/cpu.c
> has the cpu driver binding. And there already is message printed. See
> the callers of set_cpu_ops() in that file. The issue is that we die()
> when no match is found. We could attempt to boot further, but there's
> no guarantee it'd actually succeed.
>
>
> Nico
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
>
> --
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> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot

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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[i1w5d7gf38keg]

Yes, this die() is what i mean. Try to get maybe some functionality is i think 
better then just stopping there and providing zero functionality.

I also know, that there is a message when the CPUID is not known. Its about the 
die() afterwards.


23. Feb 2017 14:31 by coreboot@coreboot.org:


> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 2:39 AM, Nico Huber <> nic...@gmx.de> > wrote:
>> On 23.02.2017 00:07, >> i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com>>  wrote:
>>
>>> There is a Filter to stop booting when the CPUID is not in a list of
>>> supported CPUs. This filter does not make sense in the real world usage.
>>
>> It's not a filter. It's a measure to know which code to run for which
>> CPU. Please dig a little deeper before making such useless complaints.
>
> To add to Nico's point: the cpuid list is a way to bind code code to
> run for certain devices -- including CPUs. If the cpuid is not listed
> then the match on device->code to run is not met. Therefore, the code
> necessary to make that CPU work won't ever be ran. src/arch/x86/cpu.c
> has the cpu driver binding. And there already is message printed. See
> the callers of set_cpu_ops() in that file. The issue is that we die()
> when no match is found. We could attempt to boot further, but there's
> no guarantee it'd actually succeed.
>
>>
>> Nico
>>
>> --
>> coreboot mailing list: >> coreboot@coreboot.org
>> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>
> -- 
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> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot-- 
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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[Aaron Durbin via coreboot]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 2:39 AM, Nico Huber  wrote:
> On 23.02.2017 00:07, i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com wrote:
>
>> There is a Filter to stop booting when the CPUID is not in a list of
>> supported CPUs. This filter does not make sense in the real world usage.
>
> It's not a filter. It's a measure to know which code to run for which
> CPU. Please dig a little deeper before making such useless complaints.

To add to Nico's point: the cpuid list is a way to bind code code to
run for certain devices -- including CPUs. If the cpuid is not listed
then the match on device->code to run is not met. Therefore, the code
necessary to make that CPU work won't ever be ran. src/arch/x86/cpu.c
has the cpu driver binding. And there already is message printed. See
the callers of set_cpu_ops() in that file. The issue is that we die()
when no match is found. We could attempt to boot further, but there's
no guarantee it'd actually succeed.

>
> Nico
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org
> https://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot

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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/22/2017 05:49 PM, i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com wrote:
>  Thanks for the information. Then maybe just dont stop booting when
> CPUID is missing. Just add a line to the coreboot log. Something like:
> "WARNING: Unknown CPU ID detected. Please report to the coreboot mailing
> lists if the machine is working fine"
> 
> Then you still have the same functionality as you told. CPUs that
> require different handling on different revisions can still be
> maintained different.
> 
> People are also way more motivated to report some unstable working CPUs
> then when they flash coreboot and the system simply didnt work at all
> and without reading the logfiles it looks like its completely dead (no
> screen, nothing, just fans are on).

And with that, I'll turn this over for the other members on the list to
comment on this suggestion.  I don't care strongly one way or another,
provided the warning is at ALERT status so it shows up even with logging
mostly disabled.

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[i1w5d7gf38keg]

Thanks for the information. Then maybe just dont stop booting when CPUID is 
missing. Just add a line to the coreboot log. Something like: "WARNING: Unknown 
CPU ID detected. Please report to the coreboot mailing lists if the machine is 
working fine"

Then you still have the same functionality as you told. CPUs that require 
different handling on different revisions can still be maintained different.

People are also way more motivated to report some unstable working CPUs then 
when they flash coreboot and the system simply didnt work at all and without 
reading the logfiles it looks like its completely dead (no screen, nothing, 
just fans are on).

22. Feb 2017 23:35 by tpear...@raptorengineering.com:


> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 02/22/2017 05:31 PM, > i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com>  wrote:
>>  What is the benefit of such a list? I cant see any benefit. Its only
>> additional work that is useless.
>
> Example: Certain CPUs require special cache handling / setup to avoid
> unusual faults or security vulnerabilities at runtime.  The original
> setup code properly configures model 1 stepping 1 CPUs, but stepping 2
> CPUs require special setup.  User installs coreboot and uses it with a
> stepping 2 CPU without adding in the new setup code -- it seems to run,
> but crashes every once in a while.  User (possibly) figures out coreboot
> is the problem and is very unhappy.
>
> Again, this is very low level stuff; mistakes do not always show up as
> "failure to boot".  If you want to verify your CPUs and add them to the
> list please do so!
>
> - -- 
> Timothy Pearson
> Raptor Engineering
> +1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
> +1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
> https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/22/2017 05:31 PM, i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com wrote:
>  What is the benefit of such a list? I cant see any benefit. Its only
> additional work that is useless.

Example: Certain CPUs require special cache handling / setup to avoid
unusual faults or security vulnerabilities at runtime.  The original
setup code properly configures model 1 stepping 1 CPUs, but stepping 2
CPUs require special setup.  User installs coreboot and uses it with a
stepping 2 CPU without adding in the new setup code -- it seems to run,
but crashes every once in a while.  User (possibly) figures out coreboot
is the problem and is very unhappy.

Again, this is very low level stuff; mistakes do not always show up as
"failure to boot".  If you want to verify your CPUs and add them to the
list please do so!

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[i1w5d7gf38keg]

What is the benefit of such a list? I cant see any benefit. Its only additional 
work that is useless.

A example for CPUID-List blocking functionality is commit 
I63d308477a22a9e55ceed1b6b36e63a3044c2354


22. Feb 2017 23:15 by tpear...@raptorengineering.com:


> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 02/22/2017 05:07 PM, > i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com>  wrote:
>>  There is a Filter to stop booting when the CPUID is not in a list of
>> supported CPUs. This filter does not make sense in the real world usage.
>> For example socket 775:
>> When you enter a working cpu, then it boots.  In some cases the coreboot
>> code didnt work with a CPU where it should. For example some Pentium-4
>> CPUs. Then it crashes even before raminit.
>> But when you add a CPU that "would" work but is not listed in the CPUID
>> lists from coreboot, the machine didnt boot. If you simply add the CPUID
>> to the list everything works fine.
>>
>> In short: The only thing this CPUID list is doing is blocking
>> functionality and adding work (a list that have to be maintained).
>> Nothing else. If a CPU is not supported, it crashes after 4-5 lines of
>> logfile - even before the raminit. Thats before this CPUID list is been
>> checked.
>>
>> Please remove those CPUID lists.
>>
>
> I would recommend the lists be retained.  Presumably the individual(s)
> that wrote the CPU / northbridge support code are aware of the CPUs that
> the code is designed to work with, and using CPUs that were never
> intended with that code does entail a certain amount of risk.
> Individuals capable of mitigating this risk / verifying processor
> functionality are also capable of modifying the CPUID list.
>
> - -- 
> Timothy Pearson
> Raptor Engineering
> +1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
> +1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
> https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Re: [coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[Timothy Pearson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/22/2017 05:07 PM, i1w5d7gf38...@tutanota.com wrote:
>  There is a Filter to stop booting when the CPUID is not in a list of
> supported CPUs. This filter does not make sense in the real world usage.
> For example socket 775:
> When you enter a working cpu, then it boots.  In some cases the coreboot
> code didnt work with a CPU where it should. For example some Pentium-4
> CPUs. Then it crashes even before raminit.
> But when you add a CPU that "would" work but is not listed in the CPUID
> lists from coreboot, the machine didnt boot. If you simply add the CPUID
> to the list everything works fine.
> 
> In short: The only thing this CPUID list is doing is blocking
> functionality and adding work (a list that have to be maintained).
> Nothing else. If a CPU is not supported, it crashes after 4-5 lines of
> logfile - even before the raminit. Thats before this CPUID list is been
> checked.
> 
> Please remove those CPUID lists.
> 

I would recommend the lists be retained.  Presumably the individual(s)
that wrote the CPU / northbridge support code are aware of the CPUs that
the code is designed to work with, and using CPUs that were never
intended with that code does entail a certain amount of risk.
Individuals capable of mitigating this risk / verifying processor
functionality are also capable of modifying the CPUID list.

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
+1 (415) 727-8645 (direct line)
+1 (512) 690-0200 (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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[coreboot] Dont filter supported CPUs on a mainboard by the CPUID

[i1w5d7gf38keg]

There is a Filter to stop booting when the CPUID is not in a list of supported 
CPUs. This filter does not make sense in the real world usage.
For example socket 775:
When you enter a working cpu, then it boots.  In some cases the coreboot code 
didnt work with a CPU where it should. For example some Pentium-4 CPUs. Then it 
crashes even before raminit.
But when you add a CPU that "would" work but is not listed in the CPUID lists 
from coreboot, the machine didnt boot. If you simply add the CPUID to the list 
everything works fine.

In short: The only thing this CPUID list is doing is blocking functionality and 
adding work (a list that have to be maintained). Nothing else. If a CPU is not 
supported, it crashes after 4-5 lines of logfile - even before the raminit. 
Thats before this CPUID list is been checked.

Please remove those CPUID lists.
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