Re: Last call for review of Test-Builder using Test2 (Formerly Test-Stream)

[Chad Granum]

*bump*

This thread has produced very little chatter. Bumping the thread again
after talking to rjbs. Next week he and I are going to talk about next
steps. (Please do not read that as we will talk next week and release, that
is not intended, implied, or expected).

-Chad

Re: Last call for review of Test-Builder using Test2 (Formerly Test-Stream)

[Chad Granum]

I am certainly not going to consider 24 hours of silence a reason to stamp
a stable label on it. Rjbs and I have a status meeting every week, if
things were completely silent for 2 weeks we were going to evaluate the
situation and move on from there.

In addition we still need people from the qa hackathon in berlin to confirm
or reject the assertion that their punch list items are satisfied before
the Test::Builder component can be marked stable. If they choose to be
silent on this thread we will reach out to them directly.

My point is, things are not going to happen over night, and silence will
not be taken as a seal of approval. That said, indefinite silence will also
not be considered a blocker past a point, but no time limits have been set
either way.

-Chad
On Feb 6, 2016 2:13 AM, "Kent Fredric"  wrote:

> On 6 February 2016 at 08:14, Chad Granum  wrote:
> > If there is anything in these
> > distributions (Test2 in particular) that makes you uncomfortable, you
> > need to speak now.
>
>
> Mentioning here for visibility:
>
> As with Test-Stream where the apparent silence lead to a premature
> conclusion that finalisation was appropriate, I feel interpreting the
> current lull in activity in the same way equally premature.
>
> I've seen a proposal floating around that might raise our ability to
> be confident about the feature set of Test2 before requiring its
> implementation/feature-freeze.
>
> Just the people who I talked to who implied they were going to present
> said proposal haven't yet had the tuits to do so yet.
>
>
> --
> Kent
>
> KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL
>

Re: Last call for review of Test-Builder using Test2 (Formerly Test-Stream)

[Kent Fredric]

On 6 February 2016 at 08:14, Chad Granum  wrote:
> If there is anything in these
> distributions (Test2 in particular) that makes you uncomfortable, you
> need to speak now.


Mentioning here for visibility:

As with Test-Stream where the apparent silence lead to a premature
conclusion that finalisation was appropriate, I feel interpreting the
current lull in activity in the same way equally premature.

I've seen a proposal floating around that might raise our ability to
be confident about the feature set of Test2 before requiring its
implementation/feature-freeze.

Just the people who I talked to who implied they were going to present
said proposal haven't yet had the tuits to do so yet.


-- 
Kent

KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL

Last call for review of Test-Builder using Test2 (Formerly Test-Stream)

[Chad Granum]

On October 29th, 2015, I released Test-Stream as stable. I did this because
I felt it was ready, and because I was no longer receiving any feedback from
perl-qa asking me to change things. Since that release, the feedback picked
up substantially. It seems that declaring something done is the best way
to find out ways in which it is not actually done.

Here are the big things people wanted:

 - Split the dist into multiple dists, making the internals and tools
separate.

 - Abandon the loader system (use Test::Stream -/:/etc)

 - Loosen the tight coupling of Test::Steam to TAP

 - Make context() less magic (don't use INTERNALS::SvREFCNT)

 - Use less import() magic

 - Better namespace structuring

 - Changes to how SKIP and TODO are implemented

We decided that the best way forward was to forget about compatibility
with Test-Stream, which is still new enough that it is not seeing much use,
and make a new name with
everyone's changes.  That's Test2.

After the split there are 3 distributions:

 - Test2 (https://metacpan.org/pod/Test2) - The guts. No tools, just the
   things to make tools. This is what Test::Builder will be using.

 - Test2::Suite (https://metacpan.org/pod/Test2::Suite) - New tools as an
   alternative to Test::More and friends, built directly on Test2 instead of
   Test::Builder

 - Test2::Workflow (https://metacpan.org/pod/Test2::Workflow) - The 'spec'
   plugin and workflow extension from Test::Stream. This was big enough to
be
   a separate distribution.

Test2::Suite and Test2::Workflow are optional systems.  I think you'll
find them very useful, but they're not the key deliverable.  That's
Test2, which is meant to replace Test::Builder's guts.  Test::Builder
will be a backward compatibility layer on top of Test2.

As of the latest releases of Test2 and Test2-Suite I am considering the work
done to my specifications and intentions. Now is the time to review these
and make commentary. Once this goes stable it will become much harder, if
not impossible, to make sweeping changes. If there is anything in these
distributions (Test2 in particular) that makes you uncomfortable, you
need to speak now. I am not yet ready to say Test2-Workflow is complete.


The work to make Test::Builder use Test2 under the hood is also complete.

On CPAN:
https://metacpan.org/pod/release/EXODIST/Test-Simple-1.302013_011/lib/Test/Builder.pm

On Github: https://github.com/Test-More/test-more/tree/Test2/master

Blead Patch Ticket:
https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=127000#txn-1385453

This work has been through several verification procedures:

 - CPAN Smoking by Andreas König

 - My own testing against CPAN distributions

 - Blead patches I have written (though to date nobody has merged it in)

 - A comparison of verbose testing output on blead with and without my
   patch https://github.com/exodist/blead_stream_diff

Note: The preferred form of feedback is tickets on the relevant github
projects

-Chad