Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
Regarding surrogate organization - as well as the next LGM location. One thing I was debating with myself during the last hours of LGM, seeing as so many of you are keen on having LGM on Vietnam and Montreal, etc whether to make the suggestion and I didn't want to sploit the enthusiasm of others. The Linux Foundation have some contacts, experiences etc for organizing small specialist conferences as "satellite" conferences to the regular large ones arround the world, which essentially means you share and off-load some of the burden of organization logistics but otherwise it is a small conferences which just happens to share some of the facilities and happens at the same time of a big one. A few of the recent kernel-wireless mini-summits and open-printing summits are like that - but the communities and attendence numbers of either are quite small (about 20-40 people in either I think, rather than the 80+ in LGM - I have a different "hat" sometimes so I get invitations to both) compared to a main one which is in the 300+ attendence region. So having a surrogate under the Linux Foundation unbrella is a possibility. OTOH, freedesktop (xorg) probably also have something of that sort? --- On Fri, 4/6/10, Dave Crossland wrote: > On 3 June 2010 22:27, a.l.e > wrote: > > in countries like germany, france and switzerland it > is very easy to set up an association. > > Right - same as UK. > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK you'd still need to, > after > registering, write and agree on a constitution that defines > how > elections are done, run an election to set up a committee > with a > chair, membership secretary, treasurer, and perhaps other > roles. Then > the treasurer needs to open a bank account and file a tax > return (or > pay an accountant to file one) - and all the members and > the public > need to trust that the committee will use the money > legitimately and > fairly. > > Using a surrogate organisation means the administration of > the bank > account, filing a tax return, and the constitutional > decisions are all > taken care of by a recognised entity that the members and > the public > can trust to do things legitimately and fairly. > > So no matter what the goals of the LGA are, I suggest > starting out > with a surrogate organisation and later founding our own > entity when > we really need to :-) > ___ > CREATE mailing list > CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create > ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Conference 2011 decision: only 26 days left
Dear all, I still feel very excited and happy about the amazing experience at LGM 2010. I learned so much and got together with a wonderful crowd of people. Thank you all. I have already talked talked to some community people here in Vietnam. And I told them about LGM and the fantastic knowledge I have gained even in such a short time. After the discussion about organizing the next LGM I believe it would be a great chance for all of us to bring LGM to Asia. Besides that I would like to see you teaming up with more people in Asia and collaborating on projects, I would also have the chance to share and learn more ;-) I am very confident that we can bring together a good group of people that will be able to put up an LGM in Vietnam - with the support of contributors from all over the world. As there is a fresh drive, it is a good time to start early preparations for 2011. I have started a wiki page on http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Conference_2011_Vietnam_Bid. Please check it out. I think for the beginning it is the best to collect as much information as possible about potential venues, travel, local and international projects etc. and to build a broad base of local communities in Vietnam to support LGM 2011. The community here would be definitely very happy and supportive seeing LGM in Vietnam. We appreciate any help. Please join the wiki page to help with the proposal. I have also talked with Mario Behling, who is already working closely together with projects across Asia. He would also like to help with the organization of LGM 2011 in Vietnam. I will keep you up to date about the progress and look forward to see many people involved. By the way, also please do not forget to contact me, if projects you are involved in still need some translations to Vietnamese. All the best from Can Tho, Hong Phuc -- ___ Dang Hong Phuc h...@gnome.asia Tel +84 710 2483583 Cell +84 939 871001 http:/fossasia.org On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Andreas Vox wrote: > Hi! > > At the conference we heard a strong proposal for having the next LGM in > Vietnam, and other proposals for Singapore and Brasilia, and of course we > have Louis' standing offer to have the next LGM in Montreal again. > > It was decided to give all create ML subscribers the opportunity to > participate in the final decision, and the proponents were asked to fill in > details on the create wiki here: > http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Conference_2011 > > There was also a deadline set to July 1st, since that's the latest when > Louis has to know if he takes on LGM 2011 or not. > > So, please contribute to the decision! > > Cheers, > /Andreas > > PS: > You can also queue up for organizing LGM 2012 here: > http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Conference_2012 :-) > > ___ > CREATE mailing list > CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
[CREATE] Libre Graphics Association on the wiki
Hello everybody, I have set up a wiki page for Libre Graphics Association on the Create Wiki. I hope we can more easily organise the discussion around the creation of the LG Association. Please feel free to add your ideas there. We can also continue using the Mailing List for discussions and put the result on the wiki. Also please don’t get hurt if you don’t see your name or your suggestion on the wiki. There are a couple of threads on the mailing list and some have near a hundred of replies... So here it is: http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Libre_Graphics_Association Louis p.s. I’ve made this a separate thread only to make sure nobody would miss it buried in the long thread! ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
2010/6/4 Joao S. O. Bueno > On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Dave Crossland wrote: > > On 4 June 2010 13:13, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: > >> I still think we could settler for both things: > >> have a low profile association, that would rely on a larger body for > >> dealing with paperwork, donations and refunds. Our association itself > >> would be responsible for communication, arranging > >> meetings and ways to use the donations money, perhaps to fund > >> promising projects for specific purposes from time to time. > > > > A low profile association, like, the membership list of this mailing > list? :-) > > > > No - I'd be for the creation of a formal body in Switzerland like A.L.E. > is pushing and having some fort of "director board". :-) > A formal organisation means formalities. We have to ask ourselves for what reasons would we want to vote. As I already mentionned during the BoF at LGM, I don’t think it’s advisable at this moment and until we reach a certain level of economic activity, to put together a foundation. We are already using the services of the GNOME Foundation and this covers all the needs we have at the moment and probably the ones we’ll have in the short and mid-term. I also mentionned that I am fine with an association but again we need to know why we do it. So I guess at this point in the discussion, it would be great to have a wiki page with headers that would help organise the discussion around a couple of axis and help defining our needs. The solution will arise by itself at some point, if we express our needs well. Whether it will be a formal association or an informal one, or another type of organisation, including a foundation. By the way, if we want to make decisions by voting, we don’t need a formal association for this. I don’t think it’s bad to be associated with the GNOME Foundation. Quite the contrary. It takes away the load of accounting work, and this can become rapidly a nightmare. Just so you know, without the GNOME Foundation it would have been even harder to get the money back from the Association in Poland for LGM 2008. There was a lot of paperwork involved into that transaction and the fact that we had a Foundation behind us helped a lot to solve the issue. It took time but it was solved in the end. We are already organised. We certainly need to improve that but let’s keep our eyes on the target. It’s fine to have a discussion on a charter but I think we need first to define the needs and the goals. The means will become obvious at a certain point. By the way as someone suggested, we now have a wiki page: http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Libre_Graphics_Association This page needs a bit of love but at least we have a page now ! Cheers! Louis > js > -><- ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
On 06/04/2010 01:55 PM, Dave Neary wrote: Hi, a.l.e wrote: in switzerland (and i think in germany and france, too) you don't need to register an association. In France we have something called "Associations loi 1901" - you need to register at the prefecture, lodge statutes, minutes of AGMs and the names& addresses of the officers of the association every year. No tax returns, if your budget is under a certain amount - but I suspect that with LGM the association will be over that limit. If you want donations to be tax deductible, you need to justify that your association is "d'intérêt général" - in the public/general interest. what is harder to do, is to be recognized as a public interest non profit organization (since free software is not so well known as charitable activity and most of us refuse to exclude profits from the uses of our software)... but: do we really need it? Bigger US donors will appreciate getting tax receipts for donations. SPI, SFC, GNOME Foundation are all already 501(c)3 organisations in the US, meaning that donations are tax deductible, and "related earnings" of the association are exempt from taxation. Yes, and to elaborate on this a bit, just like these other countries, setting up some corporation in the US is quite simple and quick, but the nonprofit status takes some time. Also, the IRS tax code will not allow tax exemption for foreign-incorporated and certified tax-exempt organizations, and I presume the reverse is true, ie, US tax-exempt status has no meaning in the EU. Both the EU and US are quite acutely looking out for shady tax shelter schemes, so I think this is understandable. I think what is typically done to satisfy both sides is to set up dual nonprofit corporations, one certified in the US and another for the EU. Because of the time involved, I would agree that this is not an essential initial step, yet in the longer run will likely be essential if we are to attract large donations from both sides of the Atlantic. Greg ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Dave Crossland wrote: > On 4 June 2010 13:13, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: >> I still think we could settler for both things: >> have a low profile association, that would rely on a larger body for >> dealing with paperwork, donations and refunds. Our association itself >> would be responsible for communication, arranging >> meetings and ways to use the donations money, perhaps to fund >> promising projects for specific purposes from time to time. > > A low profile association, like, the membership list of this mailing list? :-) > No - I'd be for the creation of a formal body in Switzerland like A.L.E. is pushing and having some fort of "director board". :-) js -><- ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
On 4 June 2010 13:13, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: > I still think we could settler for both things: > have a low profile association, that would rely on a larger body for > dealing with paperwork, donations and refunds. Our association itself > would be responsible for communication, arranging > meetings and ways to use the donations money, perhaps to fund > promising projects for specific purposes from time to time. A low profile association, like, the membership list of this mailing list? :-) ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Dave Neary wrote: > Hi, > > a.l.e wrote: >> in switzerland (and i think in germany and france, too) you don't need >> to register an association. > > In France we have something called "Associations loi 1901" - you need to > register at the prefecture, lodge statutes, minutes of AGMs and the > names & addresses of the officers of the association every year. No tax > returns, if your budget is under a certain amount - but I suspect that > with LGM the association will be over that limit. > > If you want donations to be tax deductible, you need to justify that > your association is "d'intérêt général" - in the public/general interest. > >> what is harder to do, is to be recognized as a public interest non >> profit organization (since free software is not so well known as >> charitable activity and most of us refuse to exclude profits from the >> uses of our software)... but: do we really need it? > > Bigger US donors will appreciate getting tax receipts for donations. > SPI, SFC, GNOME Foundation are all already 501(c)3 organisations in the > US, meaning that donations are tax deductible, and "related earnings" of > the association are exempt from taxation. I still think we could settler for both things: have a low profile association, that would rely on a larger body for dealing with paperwork, donations and refunds. Our association itself would be responsible for communication, arranging meetings and ways to use the donations money, perhaps to fund promising projects for specific purposes from time to time. js -><- > > Cheers, > Dave. > > -- > Dave Neary > dne...@free.fr > Tel: +33 9 51 13 46 45 > Cell: +33 6 77 01 92 13 ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
Hi, a.l.e wrote: > in switzerland (and i think in germany and france, too) you don't need > to register an association. In France we have something called "Associations loi 1901" - you need to register at the prefecture, lodge statutes, minutes of AGMs and the names & addresses of the officers of the association every year. No tax returns, if your budget is under a certain amount - but I suspect that with LGM the association will be over that limit. If you want donations to be tax deductible, you need to justify that your association is "d'intérêt général" - in the public/general interest. > what is harder to do, is to be recognized as a public interest non > profit organization (since free software is not so well known as > charitable activity and most of us refuse to exclude profits from the > uses of our software)... but: do we really need it? Bigger US donors will appreciate getting tax receipts for donations. SPI, SFC, GNOME Foundation are all already 501(c)3 organisations in the US, meaning that donations are tax deductible, and "related earnings" of the association are exempt from taxation. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary dne...@free.fr Tel: +33 9 51 13 46 45 Cell: +33 6 77 01 92 13 ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
hi dave, On 3 June 2010 22:27, a.l.e wrote: in countries like germany, france and switzerland it is very easy to set up an association. Right - same as UK. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK you'd still need to, after registering, write and agree on a constitution that defines how elections are done, run an election to set up a committee with a chair, membership secretary, treasurer, and perhaps other roles. Then the treasurer needs to open a bank account and file a tax return (or pay an accountant to file one) - and all the members and the public need to trust that the committee will use the money legitimately and fairly. in switzerland (and i think in germany and france, too) you don't need to register an association. there are also standard ways to write a minimal constitution and we only need to fill three roles (by reading the law it's not clear if the same person can fill all three roles. the association needs at least three members). the bank account is not needed for an association. and if we want to externalise our finances, we don't need a bank account. creating the bank account is the most difficult step in my country. and it basically just needs the signature from three person done correctly... so it's not black magic, either. for a non profit association with a revenue under a given amount there is not way to be registered for taxes (in switzerland. i checked this three weeks ago with the federal VAT office for an association i'm leading here in switzerland). what is harder to do, is to be recognized as a public interest non profit organization (since free software is not so well known as charitable activity and most of us refuse to exclude profits from the uses of our software)... but: do we really need it? Using a surrogate organisation means the administration of the bank account, filing a tax return, and the constitutional decisions are all taken care of by a recognised entity that the members and the public can trust to do things legitimately and fairly. So no matter what the goals of the LGA are, I suggest starting out with a surrogate organisation and later founding our own entity when we really need to :-) yes ciao a.l.e ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
[CREATE] Conference 2011 decision: only 26 days left
Hi! At the conference we heard a strong proposal for having the next LGM in Vietnam, and other proposals for Singapore and Brasilia, and of course we have Louis' standing offer to have the next LGM in Montreal again. It was decided to give all create ML subscribers the opportunity to participate in the final decision, and the proponents were asked to fill in details on the create wiki here: http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Conference_2011 There was also a deadline set to July 1st, since that's the latest when Louis has to know if he takes on LGM 2011 or not. So, please contribute to the decision! Cheers, /Andreas PS: You can also queue up for organizing LGM 2012 here: http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Conference_2012 :-) ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...
On 3 June 2010 22:27, a.l.e wrote: > in countries like germany, france and switzerland it is very easy to set up > an association. Right - same as UK. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK you'd still need to, after registering, write and agree on a constitution that defines how elections are done, run an election to set up a committee with a chair, membership secretary, treasurer, and perhaps other roles. Then the treasurer needs to open a bank account and file a tax return (or pay an accountant to file one) - and all the members and the public need to trust that the committee will use the money legitimately and fairly. Using a surrogate organisation means the administration of the bank account, filing a tax return, and the constitutional decisions are all taken care of by a recognised entity that the members and the public can trust to do things legitimately and fairly. So no matter what the goals of the LGA are, I suggest starting out with a surrogate organisation and later founding our own entity when we really need to :-) ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
