Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
(quite a few off-topic things...) I like XeTeX too. That said, there are more than a few ugly hacks :-). Their dvi driver (a fork of an older version of dvipdfmx) has an option override to embed fonts with licenses which forbid embedding. The current upstream dvipdfmx - managed by a Korean team - still doesn't have that "feature". :-). Werner Lemberg seems to prefer LuaTeX more (in some private communications) - in terms of support for non-Latin scripts. LuaTeX also have more extensive scripting support for use outside of LaTex-like environment, I think. I don't know much about emacs 24's Arabic/Hebrew right-to-left support - afterall, it has only been released a couple of weeks ago :-), and I don't read Arabic/Hebrew... Would be interested to hear from native users what they think... --- On Fri, 29/6/12, Dave Crossland wrote: > On 29 June 2012 17:26, Hin-Tak Leung > > wrote: > > > > fontspec is nice, but rather tied into XeTeX? > > The important thing is that XeTeX is libre software. Nasty > hack, but > you can import PDFs made with XeTeX into Scribus frames ;-) > > XeTeX is helped a lot today by www.tug.org/texworks and I > used XeTeX > rather than Scribus for my development of Cantarell :-) > > SIL has developed some nice (sadly, as yet unpublished) > XeTeX type > design development document-tools too. The idea is that the > document-tool inspects the font and generates a document > based on > properties of the font itself - ie, generate > immersive-reading > typography with words that include every letter combination > possible > given the characters existing in the font, so that the > spacing and > kerning can be thoroughly checked. > > If Scribus supported OT features, one could create such > software for > Scribus with python scripting to test all OT feature > combinatorial > possibilities :-) > > For Scribus to support OT features, it need only take > advantage of the > QT text shaping, which is based on > http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/HarfBuzz... > > > One other thing Ricardo might want to check out is > > Pango... anyway, there is a lot text-layout expertise > > in the TeX/LaTeX community, the web-browser > (pango...)... > > ...so its Harfbuzz that is relevant here, not Pango, since > Pango's > OpenType support is delegated to Harfbuzz. > > http://behdad.org/text/ explains some of the history > here, but it is > now rather out of date... > > Behdad, do you plan to update that document? :-) > > > emacs 24 seems to have gained the ability to do > > Right-to-left directions i.e. displaying arabic/hebrew > > the way it is intended. > > That uses m17n, which is a non-OpenType complex script font > format. > Used only by emacs. :-) > > > I also seem to remember some W3C specs/RFCs about fonts > somewhere... > > W3C has the CSS3 Fonts module, and the WOFF format. > > The WOFF format is just compression, and doesn't effect > OpenType features. > > The CSS3 Font module specifies ways to access OpenType > features and > browsers are - as Ricardo said - slowly implementing this. > Microsoft > is leading here - MSIE10 will have full OpenType support - > and Firefox > trailing them. > > -- > Cheers > Dave > ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
hi If Scribus supported OT features, one could create such software for Scribus with python scripting to test all OT feature combinatorial possibilities :-) For Scribus to support OT features, it need only take advantage of the QT text shaping, which is based on http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/HarfBuzz... if you know anybody with the time, the knowledge and the will to implement it for scribus just ring a bell! it's not that scribus would be refusing to support OT features... ciao a.l.e ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
On 29 June 2012 17:26, Hin-Tak Leung wrote: > > fontspec is nice, but rather tied into XeTeX? The important thing is that XeTeX is libre software. Nasty hack, but you can import PDFs made with XeTeX into Scribus frames ;-) XeTeX is helped a lot today by www.tug.org/texworks and I used XeTeX rather than Scribus for my development of Cantarell :-) SIL has developed some nice (sadly, as yet unpublished) XeTeX type design development document-tools too. The idea is that the document-tool inspects the font and generates a document based on properties of the font itself - ie, generate immersive-reading typography with words that include every letter combination possible given the characters existing in the font, so that the spacing and kerning can be thoroughly checked. If Scribus supported OT features, one could create such software for Scribus with python scripting to test all OT feature combinatorial possibilities :-) For Scribus to support OT features, it need only take advantage of the QT text shaping, which is based on http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/HarfBuzz... > One other thing Ricardo might want to check out is > Pango... anyway, there is a lot text-layout expertise > in the TeX/LaTeX community, the web-browser (pango...)... ...so its Harfbuzz that is relevant here, not Pango, since Pango's OpenType support is delegated to Harfbuzz. http://behdad.org/text/ explains some of the history here, but it is now rather out of date... Behdad, do you plan to update that document? :-) > emacs 24 seems to have gained the ability to do > Right-to-left directions i.e. displaying arabic/hebrew > the way it is intended. That uses m17n, which is a non-OpenType complex script font format. Used only by emacs. :-) > I also seem to remember some W3C specs/RFCs about fonts somewhere... W3C has the CSS3 Fonts module, and the WOFF format. The WOFF format is just compression, and doesn't effect OpenType features. The CSS3 Font module specifies ways to access OpenType features and browsers are - as Ricardo said - slowly implementing this. Microsoft is leading here - MSIE10 will have full OpenType support - and Firefox trailing them. -- Cheers Dave ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
--- On Fri, 29/6/12, Dave Crossland wrote: > On 29 June 2012 16:39, Ricardo > Lafuente > wrote: > > This is a feature we'd love to be able to use in F/LOSS > tools, but it looks > > like a considerable technical challenge > > http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/latex/fontspec/ > :-) fontspec is nice, but rather tied into XeTeX? One other thing Ricardo might want to check out is Pango... anyway, there is a lot text-layout expertise in the TeX/LaTeX community, the web-browser (pango...)... emacs 24 seems to have gained the ability to do Right-to-left directions i.e. displaying arabic/hebrew the way it is intended. I also seem to remember some W3C specs/RFCs about fonts somewhere... ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
On 29 June 2012 16:39, Ricardo Lafuente wrote: > This is a feature we'd love to be able to use in F/LOSS tools, but it looks > like a considerable technical challenge http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/latex/fontspec/ :-) ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
On 06/29/2012 01:39 PM, Gregory Pittman wrote: Since sometimes it seems you may have recognizable/semi-recognizable glyphs in the overlay, I wonder if it would be possible to have an alternative message in the overlays, different from the basic text. Another way of saying this might be whether the overlay glyph might be different each time a base glyph occurs... This is a wonderful idea, but at the moment rather hard to implement on a F/LOSS stack. For that kind of functionality, one would need to make use of OpenType features, namely the Contextual Alternates feature (IIRC). FontForge allows designers to set these features within their typefaces -- BTW, with an interface that's miles ahead from the main proprietary alternative, FontLab Studio -- so making a font that can accomplish what you mention is possible. However, the problem lies on the lack of support for these features on layout and graphical tools in general. We had looked into this before, and it appears that neither Scribus, Inkscape or Gimp provide a way to work with non-basic OpenType features such as contextual alternates. Browsers, I've read recently, look like they're on the way to enable use of these features, but it's not yet there it seems. It's also worth noting that support for most OpenType features in Adobe software is functional, but rather flaky and clumsy to use, hidden behind layers of opaque submenus. This is a feature we'd love to be able to use in F/LOSS tools, but it looks like a considerable technical challenge and, from what I've gathered from existing bug reports/feature requests, sadly not a high priority. :r ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
very nice work i really like it. cheers :D 2012/6/29 Gregory Pittman > On 06/29/2012 07:20 AM, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: > > Hey -- > > > > That's great -- thanks for publishing the results! > > > > > > js > > -><- > > > > On 28 June 2012 20:12, Ana Carvalho wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> We published the results of the Colorfont Workshop at the LGM 2012, in > >> Vienna. > >> Photos and details are here: > >> > http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org/2012/06/colorfont-workshop-at-lgm-2012 > >> > >> There's an improved version of Colorfont.js, hacked by Simon Budig > during > >> the workshop: > >> http://manufacturaindependente.com/colorfont > >> > >> And the colorfonts by Simon, João Bueno and Claudia Krummenacher: > >> http://manufacturaindependente.com/colorfont/workshop-lgm2012.html > >> > >> We're waiting for the fonts done by the other participants. > >> If you're one of them we want your font! Send it to us :) > > Since sometimes it seems you may have recognizable/semi-recognizable > glyphs in the overlay, I wonder if it would be possible to have an > alternative message in the overlays, different from the basic text. > Another way of saying this might be whether the overlay glyph might be > different each time a base glyph occurs... > > Greg > > > ___ > CREATE mailing list > CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create > -- .1010.r.i.1101|n.o.i.s.1110|i.m.1010.g.1110|مقاومة fsf member #5439 usuario GNU/Linux #471966 |_|0|_| |_|_|0| |0|0|0| http://www.gunga.com.br";>gunga http://www.tempoecoarte.com.br";>tempoecoarte http://www.atelier-labs.org";>atelier-labs http://www.mocambos.net";>rede mocambos ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
On 06/29/2012 07:20 AM, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: > Hey -- > > That's great -- thanks for publishing the results! > > > js > -><- > > On 28 June 2012 20:12, Ana Carvalho wrote: >> Hi, >> >> We published the results of the Colorfont Workshop at the LGM 2012, in >> Vienna. >> Photos and details are here: >> http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org/2012/06/colorfont-workshop-at-lgm-2012 >> >> There's an improved version of Colorfont.js, hacked by Simon Budig during >> the workshop: >> http://manufacturaindependente.com/colorfont >> >> And the colorfonts by Simon, João Bueno and Claudia Krummenacher: >> http://manufacturaindependente.com/colorfont/workshop-lgm2012.html >> >> We're waiting for the fonts done by the other participants. >> If you're one of them we want your font! Send it to us :) Since sometimes it seems you may have recognizable/semi-recognizable glyphs in the overlay, I wonder if it would be possible to have an alternative message in the overlays, different from the basic text. Another way of saying this might be whether the overlay glyph might be different each time a base glyph occurs... Greg ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Colorfont Workshop results
Hey -- That's great -- thanks for publishing the results! js -><- On 28 June 2012 20:12, Ana Carvalho wrote: > Hi, > > We published the results of the Colorfont Workshop at the LGM 2012, in > Vienna. > Photos and details are here: > http://blog.manufacturaindependente.org/2012/06/colorfont-workshop-at-lgm-2012 > > There's an improved version of Colorfont.js, hacked by Simon Budig during > the workshop: > http://manufacturaindependente.com/colorfont > > And the colorfonts by Simon, João Bueno and Claudia Krummenacher: > http://manufacturaindependente.com/colorfont/workshop-lgm2012.html > > We're waiting for the fonts done by the other participants. > If you're one of them we want your font! Send it to us :) > > > Ana & Ricardo > > ps. For copyright reasons, regarding the fonts used as base for the overlay > Colorfont, we named each colorfont with a different name -- Oblique, Meta > and Beak. > Simon, João and Claudia if you want to pick a different name let us know :) > ___ > CREATE mailing list > CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
