Re: New Encryption Regulations have other gotchas

2000-01-15 Thread John Young

Phil Karn wrote:

I believe the anti-Tempest provisions have been in the export regs
for some time.

Yes, but when did they appear? We're attempting to trace
Tempest's origin -- not easy because of classification of
so much stuff. One classified standard dates to 1967. A
French article on Tempest in December 99 states:

"The initiators of this technique is the Bulgarian secret service
(formed by the KGB) which placed modified vans around 
embassies or important companies."

No date for the initiation. Is the claim accurate?

We've read hints that some of the earliest research concerned
naval vessels whose  metal structure was discovered to be 
acting as unintentional antennas. Then, later, planes, other 
equipment  and architectural/engineering elements of buildings.

We would appreciate information on the history of Tempest.
Not asking for classified/NDA info just dates, say, or what kind of
discoveries led to the technology. And when it went into the
export control regs.

Who knows what emanates compromising information these 
days as the sensitivity of instruments and capabilities of
EM interception and analysis increases.

Thank you very much.






Re: Blue Spike and Digital Watermarking with Giovanni

2000-01-15 Thread t byfield

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sat 01/15/00 at 06:06 PM -0800):

   arguments can be made for why you don't need to get that many texts
   even given no knowledge of the watermark system. I'll post more if
   pushed --PM]
  
 Please do, this sounds interesting.

ditto.

   [Joe Sixpack has nothing to to lose and almost no odds of being caught
   giving away two or three copies... --PM]
 
 The point of watermarking is that you can personalize each piece,
 linking it to the customer's identity. Percolation of warez through
 buddy networks would eventually reveal original purchaser.

if these meager functions are all that watermarking accomplishes,
it's a technology whose time isn't coming. serial numbers already
personalize each piece, with the result that serial numbers them-
selves have become a commodity in warez 'markets'--just like the
identical, mass-produced objects they serve to serialize. 

have software industry orgs ever shown any interest in pursuing 
original purchasers? why bother? it'd be a rare jury that'd punish 
a schlemiel for having software 'stolen by his (kid|neighbor|house-
cleaner|cousin).' but for distributing warez, or making a profit 
using them, well, that's another story--and that's who they *will* 
go after.

 Of course this is unlikely to be implemented, but in theory it's doable.

the whole idea of serializing mass market commodities in order to
control their disposition beyond the point of sale is idiotic. in
very controlled, very limited settings it can make sense, but not
in an economy of scale.

cheers,
t



Re: Blue Spike and Digital Watermarking with Giovanni

2000-01-15 Thread Robin Whittle

Digital watermarks again!

Joe Sixpack won't believe his file contains a digital watermark with
his name in it unless there is a freely distributed Windows/Mac
program which reads the watermark and so spits out his name and other
personal details.  
That being the case, it is only a matter of time before the code and
the watermark algorithm is reverse-engineered. Then a program can be
written to remove the watermark.


What use is the watermark anyway?  It is only applicable to files
generated for a specific, legally identifiable customer.  Therefore it
does not apply to pre-pressed CD/DVD etc. discs or to broadcasts via
the Net, TV, radio etc.

Who is going to prosecute Joe Sixpack or Jo Lipstick?  Not a big
company which is interested in its public image.  Not a small company,
because of the the costs.  Maybe a big company which doesn't care
about its reputation - to set and example.  But that would only
encourage all the other Joes and Jos to copy some more!

What's the use when Joe or Joe's watermarked, or proprietary-encoded
audio file must be reproduced via a PC soundcard, and there are
programs to write the raw 16 bit data to disk as .WAV or perhaps as
.MP3?  I guess the same principle applies to video.  

(Linear media such as text, audio and video cannot be copy-protected. 
Material constituting computer software - something interactive which
must run on a CPU and do things with a user - can be protected
reasonably well via hardware keys or better still, live links to a
server via the Net.  The security of such transactions would be a
worry for network administrators . . . and anyway, watermarking is
only for linear media.)

If the watermark is inaudible, then why should we believe it will
survive compression schemes which cut to the bone of human perception? 
If it is audible, then why would anyone want to buy the watermarked
material?  Considering the bizarre beliefs in so-called "high-end"
hi-fi (which resemble religiously inspired fear and fervor - such as
so-called clock jitter in SP/DIF electrical/optical cables,
oxygen-free copper power cords . . . ) then why would this segment of
the market accept deliberately altered goods, especially when they
can't hear it but *know* it's there?


Both the Internet and CD-Rs put mass digital copying in the hands of
consumers.  Content creators need to make the most of this, not fool
themselves they can prevent it.  They need to build positive, trusting
relationships with people who might be prepared to purchase their
material.  There is no alternative.  Building these kinds of
relationships would be very difficult with the old pre-pressed disc
(or cylinder in the century before last) paradigm which constitutes
the established record industry.  Those are mass-market, time-delayed
capital- transport- and labour-intensive approaches - but worst of all
they are one-way.

Fortunately, the Net is the ideal basis for building these lasting,
happy relationships.

To continue this line of discussion, with diagrams, see something I
wrote in 1995, which is still largely relevant:  Music Marketing in
the Age of Electronic Delivery:

   http://www.firstpr.com.au/musicmar/


In all the technical forms and business scenarios I have heard of,
digital watermarks/fingerprints are technically weak and relatively
useless in a business sense.  Even if they were strong and useful in
the way they were intended, I believe the intention in many instances
is wrong.

These schemes only survive because:

1 - There is some impressive-sounding, super-secret, crypto-secure 
technical basis for them,

2 - because there is a one group of people who are willing to sell 
them, and

3 - because there is another group of people (artists and owners of 
their work) who like what they are told about watermarks 
etc. but lack the technical understanding and/or vision to realise 
they are next to useless, or worse.


- Robin


===

Robin Whittle[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.firstpr.com.au
 Heidelberg Heights, Melbourne, Australia 

First Principles Research and expression: Consulting and 
 technical writing. Music. Internet music 
 marketing. Telecommunications. Consumer 
 advocacy in telecommunications, especially 
 privacy. M-F relationships. Kinetic sculpture.
  
Real World   Electronics and software for music including:
Interfaces   Devil Fish mods for the TB-303, Akai sampler 
 memory and Csound synthesis software. 

===



Re: Blue Spike and Digital Watermarking with Giovanni

2000-01-15 Thread John R Levine

 What use is the watermark anyway?  It is only applicable to files
 generated for a specific, legally identifiable customer.  Therefore it
 does not apply to pre-pressed CD/DVD etc. discs or to broadcasts via
 the Net, TV, radio etc.

Well, serial numbers are somewhat useful in tracking pirate copies of stuff,
since they make it easier to identify each "strain" of pirated stuff.  But I
agree that it's a whole lot less than why the digital watermark advocates
would have us believe they can do. 

Regards,
John Levine, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://iecc.com/johnl, Sewer Commissioner
Finger for PGP key, f'print = 3A 5B D0 3F D9 A0 6A A4  2D AC 1E 9E A6 36 A3 47