Re: Tipster voluntary payment protocol
Jeff, I think a voluntary payment system is a fine idea, but I am not sure that your proposal address the right issues. If I understand what you are proposing correctly, your scheme allows a CD buyer to verify that a particular payment server is authorized by the recording artist to collect payments in their behalf. It does this by attaching server an artist URLs and sigs to the downloadable content. First, why bother attaching all that info to the content? One can simply set up the servers and let them present signed credentials from the artists. Content is certainly one way to publicize the servers, but their are many other ways. Why depend on the content uploaders to do this? Second, it would seem you require the artist's cooperation. Some may not want to cooperate. Maybe that's OK: they don't get paid. But others --perhaps most-- could be barred from cooperating by their record companies. Their contracts may allow the record companies to control all uses of their name and may even give them access to the voluntary payments (if the contracts don't, they soon will.). The record companies may even sue the servers claiming they are interfering with the record companies contractual agreement with the artists. A better approach might be to set up one or more servers that collects money as a way of voting for people's favorite artist. The funds collected would be placed in one of several audited escrow accounts: in the artist's name, if they give permission, in an account dedicated to a charity that the artist designates, or, if neither is available, one of several music-related charities (pension funds, libraries, museums, etc.) that the donor can select. A small portion, say 5-10%, would go to pay for the server expenses. A user could prepay money -- say $10 at a time, into an account to be disbursed in smaller increments to artists. Individual payments would be charged a higher rate to cover expenses. Each donor would get a statement at the end of the year showing what portion of their donations went to IRS approved charities for tax purposes. The recording industry can be expected to try to shut down any voluntary payment system, so careful legal design is more of an issue IMHO than cryptographic protocols. A reputable bank as escrow holder and CPA firm should provide enough trust. If a system like this takes off and a lot of money is collected in the artists' names, then future artists might bypass the recording companies altogether or refuse to sign contracts that bar them from accessing the voluntary system. Arnold Reinhold At 8:33 AM -0400 8/17/2000, Jeff Kandt wrote: "Tipster" is the name I'm using for the voluntary payment scheme I posted to the coderpunks and cypherpunks lists (among others) a few weeks ago under the title "Kill the RIAA: a protocol." http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.2000.07.24-2000.07.30/msg00387.html Since that post, I've set up a weblog to track the development of the protocol and related voluntary payment issues, and just tonight I finished the first draft of the cryptographic protocol which enables Tipster's authenticated connection mechanism. I would appreciate feedback. http://tipster.weblogs.com Thanks in advance. -Jeff -- -- |Jeff Kandt | "When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf | |[EMAIL PROTECTED] | jvyy unir cevinpl!" -Brad Templeton of ClariNet | |[PGP Pub key: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6CE51904 | | or send a message with the subject "send pgp key"]| --
fyi: MPAA Wins New York DeCSS Case
--- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:50:48 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: John Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: MPAA Wins New York DeCSS Case Judge Kaplan finds for MPAA in 93-page decision: http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/courtweb/pdf/D02NYSC/00-08117.PDF Quote: p. 89 VI. Conclusion In the final analysis, the dispute between these parties is simply put if not necessarily simply resolved. Plaintiffs have invested huge sums over the years in producing motion pictures in reliance upon a legal framework that, through the law of copyright, has ensured that they will have the exclusive right to copy and distribute those motion pictures for economic gain. They contend that the advent of new technology should not alter this long established structure. Defendants, on the other hand, are adherents of a movement that believes that information should be available without charge to anyone clever enough to break into the computer systems or data storage media in which it is located. Less radically, they have raised a legitimate concern about the possible impact on traditional fair use of access control measures in the digital era. Each side is entitled to its views. In our society, however, clashes of competing interests like this are resolved by Congress. For now, at least, Congress has resolved this clash in the DMCA and in plaintiffs favor. Given the peculiar characteristics of computer programs for circumventing encryption and other access control measures, the DMCA as applied to posting and linking here does not contravene the First Amendment. Accordingly, plaintiffs are entitled to appropriate injunctive and declaratory relief. SO ORDERED. Dated: August 17, 2000 ___ Lewis A. Kaplan United States District Judge End Quote --- End of Forwarded Message
Re: Tipster voluntary payment protocol
On or about 12:57 PM -0400 8/17/00, Arnold G. Reinhold wrote: I think a voluntary payment system is a fine idea, but I am not sure that your proposal address the right issues. If I understand what you are proposing correctly, your scheme allows a CD buyer to verify that a particular payment server is authorized by the recording artist to collect payments in their behalf. It does this by attaching server an artist URLs and sigs to the downloadable content. Correct so far, except for the "CD buyer" part; this is for people who download their music from the net, even via peer-to-peer mechanisms like Napster. First, why bother attaching all that info to the content? One can simply set up the servers and let them present signed credentials from the artists. The reason for attaching the info to the file makes is that it makes it a no-brainer to pay for a song. Just right-click on the file in the Windows Explorer/Finder and choose "Tip Artist". Or alternately, my MP3 player software might support it directly so that I can pay based on who I'm actually listening to most. One of my primary goals is to make this as easy as possible for the consumer to send a tip, since the system only works if people are willing to do it on a regular basis. Content is certainly one way to publicize the servers, but their are many other ways. Why depend on the content uploaders to do this? It would be the content encoders. Once the payment info is attached to the file, it will be there no matter how many times it gets swapped around. Given a voluntary model, there's no motivation for anyone to strip it. People ripping their own MP3s from CDs is, I think, a temporary phenomenon which will go away as soon as everyone realizes what an inefficient way of moving bits they are. It won't be long before music will come straight from the artist in a compressed, net-friendly form. If it's the artists creating the file, then they'd might as well stamp their contact info on it before releasing it to the world. Second, it would seem you require the artist's cooperation. Some may not want to cooperate. Maybe that's OK: they don't get paid. But others --perhaps most-- could be barred from cooperating by their record companies. Their contracts may allow the record companies to control all uses of their name and may even give them access to the voluntary payments (if the contracts don't, they soon will.). The record companies may even sue the servers claiming they are interfering with the record companies contractual agreement with the artists. I address exactly this issue here: http://tipster.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$31 A better approach might be to set up one or more servers that collects money as a way of voting for people's favorite artist. The funds collected would be placed in one of several audited escrow accounts: in the artist's name, if they give permission, in an account dedicated to a charity that the artist designates, or, if neither is available, one of several music-related charities (pension funds, libraries, museums, etc.) that the donor can select. A small portion, say 5-10%, would go to pay for the server expenses. Tipster should support this, since it is payment-method agnostic. One of the payment methods could be an escrow account, etc. The recording industry can be expected to try to shut down any voluntary payment system, so careful legal design is more of an issue IMHO than cryptographic protocols. A reputable bank as escrow holder and CPA firm should provide enough trust. The recording industry has no reason to shut down a voluntary payment system, since their music won't be a part of it until they decide they're missing out on revenues. See the url referenced above Also, note that there are elements of the Tipster design that are intended to keep the Artist in control of their revenue stream by facilitating multiple, redundant streams. See http://tipster.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$12 Thanks for the reply, -Jeff -- -- |Jeff Kandt | "When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf | |[EMAIL PROTECTED] | jvyy unir cevinpl!" -Brad Templeton of ClariNet | |[PGP Pub key: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6CE51904 | | or send a message with the subject "send pgp key"]| --
Judge sides with Hollywood in DeCSS descrambling case
Decision is at: http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/courtweb/pdf/D02NYSC/00-08117.PDF Final judgment and order: http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/courtweb/pdf/D02NYSC/00-08118.PDF http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,38287,00.html Studios Score DeCSS Victory by Declan McCullagh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 11:40 a.m. Aug. 17, 2000 PDT LOS ANGELES -- A DVD-descrambling program is akin to a virulent Internet epidemic that must be eradicated, a federal judge said Thursday as he agreed with Hollywood that DVDs must be protected from decryption and copying. Comparing the DeCSS utility to a "common-source outbreak epidemic," U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan said "there is little room for doubting that broad dissemination of DeCSS threatens ultimately to injure or destroy plaintiffs' ability to distribute their copyrighted products on DVDs, and, for that matter, undermine their ability to sell their products to the home video market in other forms." The lawsuit, which was filed in federal court in New York, and a similar one pending in state court in California, are part of an aggressive campaign by Hollywood to protect its content from illicit distribution online. The Napster file-trading service has come under attack, as have iCraveTV and Scour.net. Kaplan's 93-page ruling against hacker-zine 2600 Magazine, which eight movie studios sued after it posted DeCSS on its website, likely will have far-reaching effects in the computer industry. It prevents 2600 from not only distributing copies of DeCSS, but also linking to Web pages or areas of a website where it resides. That could affect other online news organizations, which have occasionally linked to DeCSS as part of their coverage of the lawsuit. "I'm very troubled by the implications of the analysis in this case, particularly with regard to linking," said Stuart Biegel, a senior lecturer at the UCLA School of Law. "The distinction set forth in this opinion between different types of linking is a nebulous one." The Motion Picture Association of America, which has backed the lawsuit, applauded the ruling. "Today's landmark decision nailed down an indispensable constitutional and congressional truth: It's wrong to help others steal creative works," MPAA president Jack Valenti said in a statement. "The court's ruling is a victory for consumers and for legitimate technology." The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which has paid for the legal defense of 2600 publisher Emmanuel Goldstein, said it would appeal the ruling. Kaplan's decision, if upheld on appeal, could endanger not just websites distributing DeCSS -- and there seem to be thousands of them -- but efforts by the Linux community to develop an open-source DVD player. The LiViD project, for instance, is attempting to build a modular suite of software DVD players, and to do that, programmers incorporated the same code used in DeCSS. Kaplan's order said that anyone acting "in concert" with 2600 is prohibited from distributing or linking to any program that circumvents the DVD-protection algorithm called CSS. "Now the MPAA has an avenue to go around bullying anyone offering the LiViD project files, simply by making an argument that they're operating in conjunction with 2600, and 2600 has been enjoined from posting any CSS code, not just the infamous DeCSS.exe," wrote one irate poster on an open-source-related mailing list. [...]
Re: Tipster voluntary payment protocol
At 8:28 PM -0400 8/17/2000, Jeff Kandt wrote: On or about 12:57 PM -0400 8/17/00, Arnold G. Reinhold wrote: I think a voluntary payment system is a fine idea, but I am not sure that your proposal address the right issues. If I understand what you are proposing correctly, your scheme allows a CD buyer to verify that a particular payment server is authorized by the recording artist to collect payments in their behalf. It does this by attaching server an artist URLs and sigs to the downloadable content. Correct so far, except for the "CD buyer" part; this is for people who download their music from the net, even via peer-to-peer mechanisms like Napster. Sorry. That was a slip on my part. First, why bother attaching all that info to the content? One can simply set up the servers and let them present signed credentials from the artists. The reason for attaching the info to the file makes is that it makes it a no-brainer to pay for a song. Just right-click on the file in the Windows Explorer/Finder and choose "Tip Artist". Or alternately, my MP3 player software might support it directly so that I can pay based on who I'm actually listening to most. One of my primary goals is to make this as easy as possible for the consumer to send a tip, since the system only works if people are willing to do it on a regular basis. I agree that making it easy is essential. But I still do not think attaching all the info to the content is needed to make things easy. First of all, there is no need to have the servers' keys attached. At most you need the artist's public key or key fingerprint. When the client software contacts the server, it can get a copy of the server's key signed by the artist. That lets artists add servers after the content has been posted. Each artist's signature on the server key could also have an expiration date to allow artists to drop a server, say for non payment. You can't do that if the server keys are in the content. Under your scheme, each user will need a payment client or an MP3 player that includes a payment feature. It would make more sense to have just the artist's URL included with the content and create a protocol to let the payment client download a list of servers from the artist's site. That might not require more than agreeing on a file naming convention and file format (e.g. www.myhotnewband.com/PaymentServerList.asc, which would contain a signed list of URLs). Content is certainly one way to publicize the servers, but their are many other ways. Why depend on the content uploaders to do this? It would be the content encoders. Once the payment info is attached to the file, it will be there no matter how many times it gets swapped around. Given a voluntary model, there's no motivation for anyone to strip it. People ripping their own MP3s from CDs is, I think, a temporary phenomenon which will go away as soon as everyone realizes what an inefficient way of moving bits they are. It won't be long before music will come straight from the artist in a compressed, net-friendly form. If it's the artists creating the file, then they'd might as well stamp their contact info on it before releasing it to the world. My disagreement here is over the best way to effect change. There is significant inertia in the recording industry. New artists still dream of signing a record contract. Change is coming and I agree that an effective voluntary payment mechanism could speed change, but it is a form of circular reasoning to make that change a condition for introducing the payment system. The likelihood of a new payment model succeeding must be judged on things as they are now, not as they will be once the payment system is in place. Second, it would seem you require the artist's cooperation. Some may not want to cooperate. Maybe that's OK: they don't get paid. But others --perhaps most-- could be barred from cooperating by their record companies. Their contracts may allow the record companies to control all uses of their name and may even give them access to the voluntary payments (if the contracts don't, they soon will.). The record companies may even sue the servers claiming they are interfering with the record companies contractual agreement with the artists. I address exactly this issue here: http://tipster.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$31 In the above link you say: "Its a good bet that it will be the independent (aka small) bands which first adopt Tipster (or whatever the inevitable voluntary protocol turns out to be, even if it's not Tipster). The ones with no existing recording contract to slow them down will be quickest to move to the new model. Whatever success they have will drive the rest of the industry ..." Depending on new artists, as you propose, is a very slow and risky way to introduce a new recorded music payment model. Christine Lavin once lamented "you can make hundreds of dollars as a folk
Stephen King Novel Downloading Experiment
I've noticed a bunch of comments lately on ways of paying for downloaded content. Anyone seriously interested in this topic should check out the experiment in progress on Stephen King's website, where he is offering chapter downloads of a new horror novel, "The Plant," for a buck apiece, on an honor system, for a work still in progress. http://www.stephenking.com Basically, it's a "shame on you" play. If the pay-through rate drops below 3/4 he'll stop doing it. There is a page of statistics on how it's going. He's not cash positive yet, due to big expenses to place newspaper ads, but in general things seem to be going quite well. Cheers, Frank SudiaLab www.sudialab.com
