Re: a smartcard of a different color
Dan Geer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> reported: >> Yesterday I saw a smartcard of a different color. In particular, >> it is the smartcard chip but in a key-ring thing that is more or >> less identical to the Mobil SpeedPass except that it has a USB >> connector on one end and a keyring hole on the other. Total length >> circa 1.25"; color purple; maker Rainbow Technologies. As my pal >> Peter Honeyman said in showing it to me, "There are already all >> the USB ports we'll ever need." I'd point out that without the >> 7816 requirement for flex a whole lot more memory is a trivial >> add-on and that USB is not a bandwidth bottleneck. >> ref: http://www.rainbow.com/ikey/graphics/iKey_DS.pdf Steve Bellovin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> commented: >Folks I've talked to about products like that say that USB ports aren't >designed for that many insertion/removal cycles. (We'll ignore, for now, all >of the PCs that have their USB ports in the back, where you can't get at >them easily. One could always add on a hub.) To which I add, wistfully: Same problem that the PCMCIA cards had (in a notable contrast to any smartcard reader.) I presume that it would have cost more to design these ports to withstand multitiple daily insertions, and the cost/benefits ratio just weren't there (or this sort of use didn't seem lucrative enough to factor into the equation.) Suerte, _Vin
Re: a smartcard of a different color
At 10:02 AM -0500 11/17/99, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: >In message <v04220814b457e31782c9@[204.167.101.35]>, Robert Hettinga writes: >> >> --- begin forwarded text >> >> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: a smartcard of a different color >> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:15:07 -0500 >> From: Dan Geer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sender: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >> >> Yesterday I saw a smartcard of a different color. In particular, >> it is the smartcard chip but in a key-ring thing that is more or >> less identical to the Mobil SpeedPass except that it has a USB >> connector on one end and a keyring hole on the other. Total length >> circa 1.25"; color purple; maker Rainbow Technologies. As my pal >> Peter Honeyman said in showing it to me, "There are already all >> the USB ports we'll ever need." I'd point out that without the >> 7816 requirement for flex a whole lot more memory is a trivial >> add-on and that USB is not a bandwidth bottleneck. >> >> --dan >> >> ref: http://www.rainbow.com/ikey/graphics/iKey_DS.pdf > >Folks I've talked to about products like that say that USB ports aren't >designed for that many insertion/removal cycles. Per the USB 1.1 Specs, Table 6.7, p.95 http://usb.org/developers/data/usb11.pdf Durability Test Performance Requirement is: "1,500 insertion extraction cycles at a maximum rate of 200 cycles per hour." That's four years of once-a-day use. They are a bit stiff: insertion force is up to 35 Newtons, extraction is 10 N minimum. >(We'll ignore, for now, all >of the PCs that have their USB ports in the back, where you can't get at >them easily. One could always add on a hub.) Or a cheap USB extension cable, which would also protect the jack on your computer from wearing out. However, many (most?) USB keyboards have two USB jacks on them to allow the mouse to be plugged in on either side. USB seems to be the wave of the future in PCs. In introducing a new product like smart cards to consumers, there is a lot to be said for technology that works with what a large number of consumers already have. Arnold Reinhold
Re: a smartcard of a different color
Robert Hettinga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Subject: a smartcard of a different color >From: Dan Geer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Yesterday I saw a smartcard of a different color. In particular, it is the >smartcard chip but in a key-ring thing that is more or less identical to the >Mobil SpeedPass except that it has a USB connector on one end and a keyring >hole on the other. Total length circa 1.25"; color purple; maker Rainbow >Technologies. As my pal Peter Honeyman said in showing it to me, "There are >already all the USB ports we'll ever need." I'd point out that without the >7816 requirement for flex a whole lot more memory is a trivial add-on and >that USB is not a bandwidth bottleneck. > >ref: http://www.rainbow.com/ikey/graphics/iKey_DS.pdf Also http://ikey.rainbow.com/index.html, and more or less the same thing from http://www.tokensecurity.com/etoken/index.html (the Aladdin version is somewhat more versatile than the Rainbow one). In both cases though they're somewhat limited, providing MD5, a PRNG, and some EEPROM. Aladdin advertise 1K RSA, but there's a footnote in Flyspeck 4 indicating that it's done in software and not on the token. Overall it's a nice idea, but I'm doubtful it'll fly: - Very limited capabilities (basically just a removable storage device when it comes to crypto keys). This is a pity, because the fact that you're not stuck with the awkward smart card form factor means you could put all sorts of neat stuff in there (you could fit a 64K EEPROM, decent CPU, and hardware RNG without any trouble). Looking through the plastic on the Aladdin one there's all sorts of circuitry in there but from the specs it doesn't seem to do much. To see something which avoids the smart card form factor and makes good use of this, have a look at Datakey, http://www.datakey.com/ISS.HTM. If you want to carry your PGP keyring around on your physical keyring, there's stuff like http://www.datakey.com/PKF16M.htm (2MB flash memory token). - It's only usable with Win98 (and Win95 with various updates applied), not NT or any Unix version. - Crawling under your desk each time you want to plug it in is going to get old quickly. I have both Aladdin and Rainbow ones here. Some day I hope to find something which will talk to them. Peter.
Re: a smartcard of a different color
In message <v04220814b457e31782c9@[204.167.101.35]>, Robert Hettinga writes: > > --- begin forwarded text > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: a smartcard of a different color > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:15:07 -0500 > From: Dan Geer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sender: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Yesterday I saw a smartcard of a different color. In particular, > it is the smartcard chip but in a key-ring thing that is more or > less identical to the Mobil SpeedPass except that it has a USB > connector on one end and a keyring hole on the other. Total length > circa 1.25"; color purple; maker Rainbow Technologies. As my pal > Peter Honeyman said in showing it to me, "There are already all > the USB ports we'll ever need." I'd point out that without the > 7816 requirement for flex a whole lot more memory is a trivial > add-on and that USB is not a bandwidth bottleneck. > > --dan > > ref: http://www.rainbow.com/ikey/graphics/iKey_DS.pdf Folks I've talked to about products like that say that USB ports aren't designed for that many insertion/removal cycles. (We'll ignore, for now, all of the PCs that have their USB ports in the back, where you can't get at them easily. One could always add on a hub.) --Steve Bellovin
a smartcard of a different color
--- begin forwarded text To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: a smartcard of a different color Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:15:07 -0500 From: Dan Geer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sender: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yesterday I saw a smartcard of a different color. In particular, it is the smartcard chip but in a key-ring thing that is more or less identical to the Mobil SpeedPass except that it has a USB connector on one end and a keyring hole on the other. Total length circa 1.25"; color purple; maker Rainbow Technologies. As my pal Peter Honeyman said in showing it to me, "There are already all the USB ports we'll ever need." I'd point out that without the 7816 requirement for flex a whole lot more memory is a trivial add-on and that USB is not a bandwidth bottleneck. --dan ref: http://www.rainbow.com/ikey/graphics/iKey_DS.pdf --- end forwarded text - Robert A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: a smartcard of a different color
Robert Hettinga wrote: > > --- begin forwarded text > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: a smartcard of a different color > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:15:07 -0500 > From: Dan Geer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sender: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Yesterday I saw a smartcard of a different color. In particular, > it is the smartcard chip but in a key-ring thing that is more or > less identical to the Mobil SpeedPass except that it has a USB > connector on one end and a keyring hole on the other. Total length > circa 1.25"; color purple; maker Rainbow Technologies. As my pal > Peter Honeyman said in showing it to me, "There are already all > the USB ports we'll ever need." I'd point out that without the > 7816 requirement for flex a whole lot more memory is a trivial > add-on and that USB is not a bandwidth bottleneck. I thought these were IDs and not dumbcards? Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi
