Re: [cryptography] [Cryptography] Help investigate cell phone snooping by police nationwide
[lots of cross posting, as per original] Stipulating that I'm not in any conceivable sense the last word on this topic, you might find some of this Tradeoffs in Cyber Security Dan Geer, 9 October 13, UNCC http://geer.tinho.net/geer.uncc.9x13.txt relevant. If short on reading time, scan down to Marcia Hofmann. --dan ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [cryptography] [Cryptography] Help investigate cell phone snooping by police nationwide
Tinfoil is not sufficent any more due to increased sensitivy of interceptors. False protection left in place as ploy. False TEMPEST protection is especially effective, the best remains classified in a rolling fashion: more leaked to delude the more unleaked of what works. Inadvertent emanations are increasingly inadvertent as research in those waves leaps by giant bounds. Not news to this crafty gaggle of uncontrollably paranoidic deceptors braying about faults, patches, new faults, new paths, rolling thunder to panic herds of panic-herders, pardon, infiltrated standards setters. Jim, you may be the only experienced expert here in betrayal by trustees inside and outside the penal colony, pardon, West of the Pecos justice rigged-comsec industry. All hail MIT, industry leader of techno-rigging. BTW, are you at liberty to reveal the secrets of bio-chemical TEMPEST? The inadvertent body odor is somewhat more reliable than facial and corporeal. Rumor of testing on the bio-chem harvesting in prisons, separation of sexes into their many varieties of posturing, impostering, hybridity and crossings. After 9/11 batteries of full sprectrum bio-chem sensors were set up in NYC transporation nodes, pretending to be about snffing for bombs but actually about varieties of human emanations. Later transformed and cloaked into the Microsoft-NYPD Domain Awareness program which pretended to be about data-gathering and infiltrating suspected terrorist conclaves, vaunted by resucitated HUMINT, but about, well, that's not for the inexperienced emanator to know. Why not wrap the phone in a couple of layers of aluminum foil? (Although, it won't shield against audio if that's being recorded even while an RF contact does not exist...) Jim Bell ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [cryptography] [Cryptography] Help investigate cell phone snooping by police nationwide
The order of optimality: 1. no cell phone no how 2. cell phone with battery removed 3. disinformation feed 4. faraday cage for otherwise operational phone Film at 11, --dan ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [cryptography] [Cryptography] Help investigate cell phone snooping by police nationwide
On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Sidney Markowitz sid...@sidney.com wrote: I don't know what would make me feel safer - putting the phones in a microwave oven with the chance that the door could easily be left ajar, or getting the acoustic insulation and masking hum of a refrigerator. Trust the microwave you tested, right, because you do not know what quality DSP is pricessing your remaining 5dB audio over your entire conversation. Or put microwave in fridge ;) aka: remove battery / crush/displace phone... be happy. ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [cryptography] [Cryptography] Help investigate cell phone snooping by police nationwide
Den 8 jun 2014 21:52 skrev Jerry Leichter leich...@lrw.com: On Jun 7, 2014, at 7:56 PM, Bill Cox waywardg...@gmail.com wrote: Is there reliable evidence that putting mobiles in a fridge is any better illusory comsec than putting pillows around the door also comically exhibited to clueless journalists favored by Showman Snowden? Or at least as tall-taled by comical Glenn. It's called a Faraday cage. I'd test it right now, but I think someone hid my mobile phone in a fridge. The problem is that a refrigerator is not a Faraday cage. Every refrigerator I've ever used has rubber gasket between the door and the body of the refrigerator. It's typically 2-3 cm thick. Cell phone wavelengths vary with band, but range from somewhere around 30 cm down to around 8 cm. A refrigerator should attenuate the signal, probably quite a bit, but it's not going to block completely. Of course, this assumes that the point of the exercise is to block the RF. A refrigerator will also, to some degree, block sounds. Since nothing inside the food box of a refrigerator typically generates any noise (and of course it's not *sensitive* to noise either), there's no reason to design a refrigerator to be soundproof. So how much it will muffle outside sounds is unclear. These things are easy to check experimentally, at least to a good enough approximation to say whether they are likely to be effective for the task at hand. If it's important to you ... let us know how the experiments come out. -- Jerry That leaves my conclusion as that you should stuff the phone into pillows in the microwave before you put the microwave in the fridge, and then stuffing more pillows in there. Then you wrap it all with a lot of layers of blankets and hold them in place with aluminum foil. Then you do the same separately for the battery. Because you removed the battery first, right? Should only take a single working day or so to achieve. ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
Re: [cryptography] [Cryptography] Help investigate cell phone snooping by police nationwide
(or as Snowden demonstrated, put in a fridge to avoid scrutiny and audio capture the best idea. non-serial tower associations are an anomaly alerted and acted upon.) Faraday cages concept really depend on the freqs they are designed to inhibit, pressure, sound, radio, optic, etc. Given wide enough freqs, one cage does not service all. A fridge has plastec and magnetic gaskets, over maybe 2cm variant gap, so not a complete EM seal (at whichever specifical freqs). And grounding issue. But good at human sound deading. Microwave door shield is closer to cell phone freq shield. If you cannot simply remove the battery preferably, that is. As always, test first. And is easy to find phones to test all phone bands with. TEMPEST. ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
