Re: Requesting feedback on patched RC4-variant

2001-04-24 Thread Nikita Borisov

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Greg Rose  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As Perry points out, you need integrity protection anyway, whether using 
RC4 or not. But I'd like to point out that this is one of the few things 
*not* really wrong with WEP. Remember that the signal is being send using 
DSSS (Direct sequence spread spectrum, similar to CDMA digital phones) and 
the chances of an attacker being able to change just one bit, or a targeted 
selection of bits, in a message, is essentially zero.

Of course it's difficult to modify a message while it's in transit.
However, WEP does not prevent replay attacks, so it is possible to
replay a previously transmitted frame with appropriate modifications.
Some people have also suggested tricks to me that can ensure that the
original message never gets received, if that is a concern.  I stand by
the claim that integrity protection is important in a protocol such as
WEP.

- Nikita



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Re: Requesting feedback on patched RC4-variant

2001-04-23 Thread Matthijs van Duin

In general, if you're not an expert (:), it's worth not messing with the
core parts of algorithms to prevent an attack when you don't 
undertand the attack.

I do fully understand how both RC4 and the attack work.

[I'm not so sure about that. --PM]

RC4 has two basic rules for using it securely
- Use long enough keys.
- Never EVER reuse a key.

I did those already, I was very well aware that reusing an RC4 key is 
a no-no, I even explained the need for this to other people.


The basic things wrong with the use of RC4 in several broken
commercial environments (e.g. 802.11 WEP, MS PPTP) include
snip

Too short key length wasn't the only problem in WEP: Another problem 
arose from the fact that when you toggle a single bit in the 
ciphertext, that *same* bit is toggled in the plaintext.

[That's not an RC4 feature -- that's a feature of any stream
cipher. However, in general, any time you use a cipher in a
communications protocol, you want a MAC as well, even if you are using
a block cipher in CBC. --PM]

Therefore, 
if the contents of part of the ciphertext is known, that part could 
be modified. WEP has integrity checking to protect against this, 
however they did this in a flawed way. (the propogation of a bit 
toggle can be tracked through the CRC algorithm to determine which 
bits of the CRC should be toggled to make sure the change will not be 
detected)

in general, I'm not comfortable with this bit-toggle property, but RB 
is too sucky to implement a decent algorithm.

Well, I'm working on getting cryptlib working on MacOS anyway, and 
then turn it into an RB plugin, and all my problems will be solved :-)


Matthijs van Duin
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