Re: [css-d] Hiding a table column with CSS?

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Aug 23, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Timothy Kelty wrote:

> I've been trying to figure out how to hide an entire table column,  
> defined
> by a  tag
>
> The following hides the column in Firefox and IE, but does not do  
> anything
> in Safari:
>
> col#test{
> visibility: collapse; /* hides column in Firefox */
> display: none; /* hides column in ie6, ie7 */
> }
>
> Does anybody know how to make this work cross-browser?  Or if you have
> another solution for hiding an entire column...
>
> I found this post in the archives, but still haven't had any luck:
> http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/74211

There is not much more to add, I'm afraid.

> #col1 {display:none;}
> tr>td:first-child {display:none;}

Of course, if your column contains a  you'll need to add that in  
the selectors:
tr>td:first-child,
tr>th:first-child {display:none;}

And if the column you want to hide is not the first one, the selector  
becomes a bit longer:
tr>td:first-child+td+td,
tr>th:first-child+th+th {display:none;}
will deal with the 3rd column.

Do you have a URL that illustrates your problem(s) ?



Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh





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Re: [css-d] Differing font-sizes between operating systems

[WEZ!]

Another idea which I have never tried would be em width lines using a 
monospace font. Courier is a standard mono space font with an em 
width line means you should be able to get an exact number of 
characters to each line. Yet again not a pretty solution but please 
refer to the posts which details the solution regarding your bosses 
ideas :)

I'm not sure how cross-browser friendly that will be but should 
reduce problems (well I hope anyhow)

Wesley Lamont

ohh monospace means each character takes up an equal width so the 
width of the character 'i' will be the same as an 'm'
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Re: [css-d] CSS crashes Mac Firefox

[Karl Brightman]

I wouldn't think it would be a memory problem on a Macbook Pro though?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fantasai
Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2007 12:26 PM
To: Tim Offenstein
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] CSS crashes Mac Firefox

Tim Offenstein wrote:
> This is a new one on me. The CSS on http://www.chad.uiuc.edu crashes 
> my Mac Firefox 2.0.0.6. I'm running OX 10.4.10. I have another 
> Powerbook G4 that is able to display the page fine which would 
> indicate this problem is with my MacBook Pro, but I haven't had any 
> problems with any other web pages. When I disable the CSS, the page 
> loads up okay.
> 
> I have the following Add-ons:
>   - Firebug 1.05,
>   - HTML Validator 0.7.9.5,
>   - Mozilla Accessibility Extension 1.01,
>   - Talkback 2.0.0.6, and
>   - Web Developer 1.1.4.
> 
> Any thoughts?

It could be running out of memory. Have you tried with all extensions
disabled?

If you want to find the problem in the web page, the best way to debug
this kind of thing is to cut stuff out until you have the minimum
necessary to crash. So I would start by opening the CSS file in a text
editor, cutting out all lines of CSS, loading the page, and seeing if
it crashes. If it doesn't, paste the CSS back in. This time cut out
the top half and reload. If it crashes, then the problem is in the
bottom half. Keep cutting away at the bottom half until you've figured
out what the problem is. If it doesn't crash, then the problem is likely
in the top half. Paste the top half back in and delete the bottom half.
Etc.

~fantasai

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Re: [css-d] CSS crashes Mac Firefox

[Steve Axthelm]

On 2007-08-22 Tim Offenstein wrote:

> This is a new one on me. The CSS on http://www.chad.uiuc.edu crashes my Mac 
> Firefox 2.0.0.6.

Yup, crashes here too. MBP, 10.4.10, 3GB RAM, FF 2.0.0.6,

Lots of extensions loaded in FF.


-Steve

-- 
Steve Axthelm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [css-d] CSS crashes Mac Firefox

[jeffrey morin]

> Any thoughts?
>
> -Tim

it's fine on my imac. i have ff 2.0.0.6 also with the web dev toolbar

jeff
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Re: [css-d] CSS crashes Mac Firefox

[Karl Brightman]

Are you using the same version add-ons for each Firefox? The other thought I
had was some JavaScript running that required the CSS but from what I can
tell there's nothing there that would affect it on your page. I'm interested
to find out what the problem is.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Offenstein
Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2007 12:00 PM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: [css-d] CSS crashes Mac Firefox

This is a new one on me. The CSS on http://www.chad.uiuc.edu crashes 
my Mac Firefox 2.0.0.6. I'm running OX 10.4.10. I have another 
Powerbook G4 that is able to display the page fine which would 
indicate this problem is with my MacBook Pro, but I haven't had any 
problems with any other web pages. When I disable the CSS, the page 
loads up okay.

I have the following Add-ons:
- Firebug 1.05,
- HTML Validator 0.7.9.5,
- Mozilla Accessibility Extension 1.01,
- Talkback 2.0.0.6, and
- Web Developer 1.1.4.

Any thoughts?

-Tim
-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
  Tim Offenstein  ***  College of Applied Health Sciences  *** 
(217) 244-2700
CITES Departmental Services Web Specialist  *** 
www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein

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Re: [css-d] CSS crashes Mac Firefox

[fantasai]

Tim Offenstein wrote:
> This is a new one on me. The CSS on http://www.chad.uiuc.edu crashes 
> my Mac Firefox 2.0.0.6. I'm running OX 10.4.10. I have another 
> Powerbook G4 that is able to display the page fine which would 
> indicate this problem is with my MacBook Pro, but I haven't had any 
> problems with any other web pages. When I disable the CSS, the page 
> loads up okay.
> 
> I have the following Add-ons:
>   - Firebug 1.05,
>   - HTML Validator 0.7.9.5,
>   - Mozilla Accessibility Extension 1.01,
>   - Talkback 2.0.0.6, and
>   - Web Developer 1.1.4.
> 
> Any thoughts?

It could be running out of memory. Have you tried with all extensions
disabled?

If you want to find the problem in the web page, the best way to debug
this kind of thing is to cut stuff out until you have the minimum
necessary to crash. So I would start by opening the CSS file in a text
editor, cutting out all lines of CSS, loading the page, and seeing if
it crashes. If it doesn't, paste the CSS back in. This time cut out
the top half and reload. If it crashes, then the problem is in the
bottom half. Keep cutting away at the bottom half until you've figured
out what the problem is. If it doesn't crash, then the problem is likely
in the top half. Paste the top half back in and delete the bottom half.
Etc.

~fantasai

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[css-d] 3-col liquid layout problems in ie 6 and 7

[Scott Demontluzin]

Hi list,
This is my first post. I have a three column liquid layout,
http://www.scottdemontluzin.com/pelex.htm
In ie 6 and 7  when i expand the window the
right column drops under the left column and then will come back
to the correct position. Does anyone know the reason for this?
Thanks, Scott
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[css-d] CSS crashes Mac Firefox

[Tim Offenstein]

This is a new one on me. The CSS on http://www.chad.uiuc.edu crashes 
my Mac Firefox 2.0.0.6. I'm running OX 10.4.10. I have another 
Powerbook G4 that is able to display the page fine which would 
indicate this problem is with my MacBook Pro, but I haven't had any 
problems with any other web pages. When I disable the CSS, the page 
loads up okay.

I have the following Add-ons:
- Firebug 1.05,
- HTML Validator 0.7.9.5,
- Mozilla Accessibility Extension 1.01,
- Talkback 2.0.0.6, and
- Web Developer 1.1.4.

Any thoughts?

-Tim
-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
  Tim Offenstein  ***  College of Applied Health Sciences  *** 
(217) 244-2700
CITES Departmental Services Web Specialist  *** 
www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein

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[css-d] Hiding a table column with CSS?

[Timothy Kelty]

I've been trying to figure out how to hide an entire table column, defined
by a  tag

The following hides the column in Firefox and IE, but does not do anything
in Safari:

col#test{
visibility: collapse; /* hides column in Firefox */
display: none; /* hides column in ie6, ie7 */
}

Does anybody know how to make this work cross-browser?  Or if you have
another solution for hiding an entire column...

I found this post in the archives, but still haven't had any luck:
http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/74211

Thanks in advance!
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[css-d] Couple of Bugs, css + jquery

[Corey Frang]

http://www.pablokorona.com/corey/

I figured I'd just post this to both lists as there is a good chance 
someone on either side can help me with either problem.

The big problems I'm having

1) The layout breaks hard in IE6, any suggestions?
2) The animation, the #picfloater blinks in and out of existance while 
animating in firefox, but not ie7 or safari...

Any help anyone can give me, thanks in advance.
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Re: [css-d] Site Check PLEASE

[bruce . somers]

> Von: Hairball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Gesendet: 11.08.07 12:44:27
> An: CSS-D 
> Betreff: [css-d] Site Check PLEASE

> I added photo gallery please give pointer on what to improve .
> Thanks


Would you have time to tell people what you are referring to?


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[css-d] wordpress blog, code snippet plugin messing with the validation..

[Daniel Petre]

hello, well, i am stuckd at a validation problem, actually a couple of
warnings.

i have this wordpress blog and i added a code snippet plugin that allows
me to quote a code block with css, php,html, etc highlighting.

but tonight i saw it wont validate against XHTML 1.0 Transitional with
the following warnings:

line 57 column 1 - Warning: missing  before 

line 61 column 1 - Warning: inserting implicit 

line 57 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty 

you can see for yourself if you look at the source of:

http://www.jurnalweb.info/22-08-2007/css/stilizarea-linkurilor-vizitate-deja/

and have the html validator plugin in firefox and search the source for
the errors..

id appreciate any advices.. thanks a lot!

P.S. maybe i should paste here the exact code i see in problem:

(line 57) 

.the_cloud { margin-left: 12px; margin-right: 12px; }
.the_cloud a:visited { text-decoration:
line-through; }

(line 61) 


-- 
Daniel Petre,
Consultant IT,
S.C. Delfix Media S.R.L.
http://www.delfix.ro

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Re: [css-d] wordpress blog, code snippet plugin messing with the validation..

[Daniel Petre]

ah nevermind, i have removed the   and it seems it formats
and validates correct now..

Daniel Petre wrote:
> hello, well, i am stuckd at a validation problem, actually a couple of
> warnings.
> 
> i have this wordpress blog and i added a code snippet plugin that allows
> me to quote a code block with css, php,html, etc highlighting.
> 
> but tonight i saw it wont validate against XHTML 1.0 Transitional with
> the following warnings:
> 
> line 57 column 1 - Warning: missing  before 
> 
> line 61 column 1 - Warning: inserting implicit 
> 
> line 57 column 1 - Warning: trimming empty 
> 
> you can see for yourself if you look at the source of:
> 
> http://www.jurnalweb.info/22-08-2007/css/stilizarea-linkurilor-vizitate-deja/
> 
> and have the html validator plugin in firefox and search the source for
> the errors..
> 
> id appreciate any advices.. thanks a lot!
> 
> P.S. maybe i should paste here the exact code i see in problem:
> 
> (line 57) 
> 
> .the_cloud {  class="kw1">margin-left: 12px;  class="kw1">margin-right: 12px; }
> .the_cloud a:visited  class="br0">{ text-decoration:
> line-through; }
> 
> (line 61) 
> 
> 

-- 
Daniel Petre,
Consultant IT,
S.C. Delfix Media S.R.L.
http://www.delfix.ro
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Re: [css-d] Beginner layout suggestions?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Allison Kelly wrote:

> http://www.skeetrbeatronline.com/testpage.html
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions of how to tackle this? I am a bit 
> confused as to what the "best practice" would be here and what I can 
> actually do with CSS, or if I will need to use some simple tables as 
> well.

No tables needed.

I needed a case to test some image-replacement and hover effects on
today, so I used yours. Maybe you can use parts of my test page for
something. Layout styles are in the page head..


> Major questions  for me:
> 
> Does CSS use slices the same way that tables do? Should I keep the 
> slices for the tables that I had in mind when I started or should I 
> take that green circle picture out and just reposition it after I 
> create a two-column with header layout?

We rarely ever build up real-world CSS based pages with image slices, as
such pages would break under the slightest stress. By stress I mean
'font resizing' and other normal browser options.
Forget the old table methods, but use parts of the image where they will
actually work under stress. Testing is important here.

I used the header, footer and navigation parts of your image, for
image-replacement. Thought it came out just fine - for a test case that
is, even if I used coarse image-handling methods. (I rarely ever create
layouts based directly on PhotoShop designs :-) )

The circle picture interferes with content (text) in the two columns,
but other than that it's easiest to keep it separate and position it on
top once the basic layout is in place. I floated it and pulled it in
place with margins, but you can also use absolute positioning.

> I'm imagining using the slices that I have created as the background 
> in a div tag and then superimposing text over those. Does that make 
> sense, and is that the best way to go about this?

Using a part of the image as a repeated background down the page, works
well. See the test page.

> Now that I have decided to go with CSS, I am at a loss as to where I 
> should begin with the rollover menu buttons.

I used a simple "replace and offset" variant in the test page. That's
all buttons with two states in one image, manipulated through CSS. More
states can of course be added.
Another variant is CSS Sprites...



Note: The meta elements in your page make the HTML validator complain.

Good luck.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] Nav list: effecting container div height

[Red Rooster]

Hello,
New to the list, Hi!

I'm trying to make the container div holding my UL navigation grow in height
when I add padding to my a tags.

I also would like to get rid of the white space on the left of each a tag
that you can see on hover.

Is there a way to set up my nav div to flex in height with the links?

See it here: http://www.redroosterweb.com

Thanks,

RR
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Re: [css-d] Fieldset w/100% width expands beyond its form?

[Jay Levitt]

On 8/22/2007 9:53 AM, Barney Carroll wrote:
> Jay,
> 
> 100% width isn't a problem figure – the elements you are giving the 
> width to are actually wider than simply their width, which causes the 
> problem: In your second example, you would have to remove the padding 
> and border of the fieldset that are added to the width by default in 
> most browsers. If you want the fieldset to sit entirely within the 
> confines of the form, you would also have to remove the padding on the 
> form, as so:

Ah, ok.  I suspected as much for the second example, but I thought the 
first was something different.  But after removing both the border AND 
the margins/padding (both of which apparently contribute to the "final 
width"), I see that even example 1 lines up as I'd want it to:

http://www.jay.fm/files/overlappinga.html

So then my problem becomes:  In the example above, I want the borders, 
padding and margin of the (floated) fieldset to push away the (floated) 
right column.

But they don't, and I'm guessing it's because while the fieldset is 
floated, its parent div is not.  So those margins/padding are outside 
the normal flow and don't impact the parents, which are in the normal 
flow.  In fact, even the dimensions of the fieldset don't affect the 
.labelled-form containing div either; the div and the form are both 
apparently invisible and dimensionless.  So rather than setting the 
container size to depend on the fieldset, I see I've done the opposite; 
I've said to "set the *contents* of the fieldset to be as wide as one of 
my containing elements" - specifically, AFAICT, as wide as #center, 
which is the first parent that has a width itself.  Am I getting that right?

So how, if at all, can I get the margins and padding of fieldset to 
affect the right column?  I can set margins/padding on .labelled-form 
instead, but that may not be what I always want to do.  In fact, since 
.labelled-form needs to work both with and without fieldsets, I know 
it's not what I want to do.

Jay

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Re: [css-d] Differing font-sizes between operating systems

[Dennis Bixler]

On 22/8/07 (17:54) Thorsten said:

>The containing element's width is fixed, that didn't help any, alas. I 
>checked on Firefox/Win and Safari/Win and had to add in a few 
>line-breaks for Safari where Firefox's text flow already worked 
>normally. That sucks for longer texts of course and is at best
unreliable.

Where Rick Lecoat responded:

> Or, do it all in Flash.
> Now I really do need a wash.

Or worse - create the page as a pdf and just have a link on a plain
page.
Now I need a wash.

But alas there is really no good CSS solution for pixel-perfect printed
page formatting that someone wants to look exactly the same for everyone
and is to be displayed on numerous different systems with different
setups.

Dennis

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Re: [css-d] Differing font-sizes between operating systems

[Rick Lecoat]

On 22/8/07 (17:54) Thorsten said:

>The containing element's width is fixed, that didn't help any, alas. I
>checked on Firefox/Win and Safari/Win and had to add in a few
>line-breaks for Safari where Firefox's text flow already worked
>normally. That sucks for longer texts of course and is at best unreliable.
>
>If I use, say, 62.5% font-size for the body and ems for paragraphs some
>of the text flows as planned in both browsers with a few minor
>inconsistencies further down the road. What makes me really crazy is the
>finality of the demand.. there's no reasoning possible it seems. What
>counts is the result, no matter how it's achieved and I'm a bit lost here.
>
>I'm not really sure how to compensate for the font size differences
>between Win and Mac. Should I perhaps use a browser sniffer (unreliable
>I heard) and influence the font size for the Mac? Evenf for Firefox/Mac
>which shows those different text flows as well? Is that "good practise"?
>
>- Thorsten

If your boss is utterly 100% dogmatically immovably determined to have
his text line-off in a rigid, immutable fashion such as you describe,
the there is really only one sure-fire way to do it. Turn all the text
into images and use image replacement techniques. (There! I said it!)

Of course this is an utterly horrific solution, and I'd never in a
million years actually advocate it, but I really can't think of any
other technique whereby text content on a website is going to look
identical in every browser, without any variation. There are just too
many variables; even if you got your sizing sorted out you have no way
to know whether your viewer will be looking at the page in Arial or
Verdana, and there's a gulf of character width between the two. And the
viewer might have their browser set to override all your CSS font
styling anyway, and you can't control that.

Or, do it all in Flash.

Now I really do need a wash.

In the end of course, it comes down to the fact that your boss has
absolutely no idea about how websites work, and really needs to learn
that just because he stamps his foot we won't necessarily get what he
wants. I want my car to be able to travel through space at faster than
light speed, but it can't -- and me being stubborn about it and shouting
"that's not acceptable" won't change that.

Your boss needs to educate himself about the way things work on the
internet, otherwise he's just going to be frustrated and he'll blame you.

File under: 'Easy for you to say'.
I know.

-- 
Rick Lecoat

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Re: [css-d] Differing font-sizes between operating systems

[Thorsten]

Hi Rob,

>> I had to do something similar for a site owned by a 'print person' 
>> who insisted that lines be the recommended-for-reading-in-books 
>> length of somewhere around 7 words per line.
>> 
>> It was a simple matter to specify the width of the containing
>> element (the site's old enough that this used to be a table cell,
>> but it's now a DIV). I use EMs as the unit of measure, which with
>> the usual caveats, will give -- in most browsers most of the time,
>> which is as good as it gets -- a similar line length.
The containing element's width is fixed, that didn't help any, alas. I
checked on Firefox/Win and Safari/Win and had to add in a few
line-breaks for Safari where Firefox's text flow already worked
normally. That sucks for longer texts of course and is at best unreliable.

If I use, say, 62.5% font-size for the body and ems for paragraphs some
of the text flows as planned in both browsers with a few minor
inconsistencies further down the road. What makes me really crazy is the
finality of the demand.. there's no reasoning possible it seems. What
counts is the result, no matter how it's achieved and I'm a bit lost here.

I'm not really sure how to compensate for the font size differences
between Win and Mac. Should I perhaps use a browser sniffer (unreliable
I heard) and influence the font size for the Mac? Evenf for Firefox/Mac
which shows those different text flows as well? Is that "good practise"?

- Thorsten



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Re: [css-d] valid ie png fix

[David Hucklesby]

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:43:07 +0200, Beat Beer wrote:
> Hi List
>
> is there a vaild way to get a transparent shadow repeating in an wrap as png 
> over a
> background image. I have tried a iepng fix but the background did not repeat.
>
Having tackled exactly this problem, I don't think there is a solution,
valid or not:

"Background PNG images can't be tiled. This is a limitation of the IE filter."

Ref: 

Cordially,
David
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Re: [css-d] Beginner: fixing text to bottom of a div

[David Hucklesby]

> Ingo wrote:
>> Dear list,
>>
>> http://web-bereiter.de/chobocca.com/test06/de/index.html using
>> http://web-bereiter.de/chobocca.com/test06/chobocca.css
>>
>> I'm trying to fix the h1 to the very bottom of #heading, and fail so far. 
>> The idea is
>> to have a constant 16px gap between the heading text h1 and the text p in 
>> #textbox.
>> In other words I want the textline in h1 to "grow upwards", no matter what 
>> font or
>> size. margin-bottom:0 and vertical-align:bottom don't help. 

Barney Carroll replied:
>
> [...] vertical-align is a table-only property, and I resent it for taunting us
> from within those stupid confines.
>
Umm. Not quite, Barney. It's true that vertical-align works differently
with table cells than with inline elements, but I do find the property
useful on a number of occasions outside of tables:

 


Cordially,
David
--


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Re: [css-d] IE Filters: valid or no?

[David Hucklesby]

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:27:20 +0100, Rick Lecoat wrote:
> A real quickie here:
> Does the IE Filter property (eg. filter: alpha(opacity=50) validate under CSS 
> 2.1?

Short answer - no.

Long answer - this filter seems to work pretty consistently like the 
CSS3 "opacity" property, except it uses percents rather than fractions.
As expected, I have come across bugs using it, but only in exceptional
circumstances. No real reason not to use it.

My thoughts on validation - I regard it like I do a spell checker:
an essential tool, but not to be followed blindly. After all, if I write
about the Sheraton Centre in Manhattan, my U.S. spell-checker tells
me I spelled "Centre" incorrectly. Do I change it? I think not.

Cordially,
David
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Re: [css-d] Differing font-sizes between operating systems

[Thorsten]

Rob Stevenson schrieb:
> On 22 Aug 2007, at 10:33, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>> I'm working for a company in which the boss (who's originally from the
>> print industry) insists on having equal line lengths in the  
>> browsers on
>> different operating systems.
>>
>> So in an example text, "hello, i'm example text!", if the text is  
>> split to
>> the following line at "example" on Firefox Windows, it must be  
>> split at
>> "example" in Firefox Mac/Safari as well.
> 
> I had to do something similar for a site owned by a 'print person'  
> who insisted that lines be the recommended-for-reading-in-books  
> length of somewhere around 7 words per line.
> 
> It was a simple matter to specify the width of the containing element  
> (the site's old enough that this used to be a table cell, but it's  
> now a DIV). I use EMs as the unit of measure, which with the usual  
> caveats, will give -- in most browsers most of the time, which is as  
> good as it gets -- a similar line length.
> 
> The exact line length may not be precise to the pixel across browsers  
> and OSes, but words being chunky, it works well enough.
> 
> Rob
> 
> There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. -  
> Leonard Cohen, musician (1934-)
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Re: [css-d] Fieldset w/100% width expands beyond its form?

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Aug 22, 2007, at 10:15 PM, Jay Levitt wrote:

> http://www.jay.fm/files/overlapping2.html
>
> What's going on here?  Are the two problems actually the same, and if
> so, what's the right solution to get the fieldset to stay inside the
> form?  I'd think this would be a common problem but Googling and list
> archives haven't revealed anything.

You declare a width: this applies to the content width of the box (in  
this case: a fieldset). But fieldset (default browser style) has also  
padding on both left and right, and a border. Those are not included  
in the specified width.
That is all known as the 'box model'


A fieldset being a block-level element will automatically expand to  
the full width of the parent box, you don't need to specify a width  
(especially, as you use 100%).


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh





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Re: [css-d] Differing font-sizes between operating systems

[Rob Stevenson]

On 22 Aug 2007, at 10:33, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I'm working for a company in which the boss (who's originally from the
> print industry) insists on having equal line lengths in the  
> browsers on
> different operating systems.
>
> So in an example text, "hello, i'm example text!", if the text is  
> split to
> the following line at "example" on Firefox Windows, it must be  
> split at
> "example" in Firefox Mac/Safari as well.

I had to do something similar for a site owned by a 'print person'  
who insisted that lines be the recommended-for-reading-in-books  
length of somewhere around 7 words per line.

It was a simple matter to specify the width of the containing element  
(the site's old enough that this used to be a table cell, but it's  
now a DIV). I use EMs as the unit of measure, which with the usual  
caveats, will give -- in most browsers most of the time, which is as  
good as it gets -- a similar line length.

The exact line length may not be precise to the pixel across browsers  
and OSes, but words being chunky, it works well enough.

Rob

There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. -  
Leonard Cohen, musician (1934-)
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Re: [css-d] Fieldset w/100% width expands beyond its form?

[Barney Carroll]

Jay,

100% width isn't a problem figure – the elements you are giving the 
width to are actually wider than simply their width, which causes the 
problem: In your second example, you would have to remove the padding 
and border of the fieldset that are added to the width by default in 
most browsers. If you want the fieldset to sit entirely within the 
confines of the form, you would also have to remove the padding on the 
form, as so:

fieldset,
form
{
border: none;
padding: 0;
}

These confusing issues are part of the wider headache that are 'default 
styles' – they are different for all browsers and user can even 
customise them, so you never know what to get. A lot of people use 
'reset styles' to reformat these mystery values – Eric Meyer's set of 
rules being very popular:

http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/


Regards,
Barney
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Re: [css-d] Beginner layout suggestions?

[Alex Torrijos]

Hi Allison,I'm a bit of a newbie to CSS myself but I found this tutorial useful 
in attempting to use CSS for 
layout.http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/process/The
basic process of converting your design from an image mock-up to an
XHTML and CSS page is to first look at the design and identify
containers. For example, in your design for the Skeet'r Beat'r website,
you can basically create containers for various parts of the design
which will be marked up using divs. The header and footer sections are
two containers, the left sidebar is another, the main content column
and navigation are also containers for content. These containers can
also be wrapped within another main container.In your XHTML page within the 
body tag you can mark up the containers like this:  
   
 In
the external CSS stylesheet to which your page is linked to you can
have a better idea of how to mark-up the containers to match your
design by first setting different background colors for each container.
For example:#container { background: #00EE00;}#header { background: 
#00EECC;}and so forth.Once you have the colors in place you need to specify the 
CSS to build and position these containers.  In
the header css you can specify a background image which is basically a
thin vertical slice of the header portion of your design mock-up. You
slice up or extract parts of images from your design mock-up and use
CSS to either place a repeatable background image so that the XHTML
page slowly matches your design.The header container may need to be further 
divided into sub containers like logo, and logo_text.Anyway this is just one 
repeatable process or way to start building CSS layouts. Hope it helps.Best 
regards,Alex Torrijos--Alexander R. TorrijosWeb 
DeveloperMobile: +63 921 838 0382Res: +63 2 822 
7219http://www.stormwild.com--> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 
2007 18:39:53 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org> 
Subject: [css-d] Beginner layout suggestions?> > Hi all,> > I am re-learning 
CSS and XHTML after not using it for a few years and am in> need of some 
suggestions. I have created a layout in Photoshop and am now> ready to move 
onto the next step.  I just can't decide which step that is! I> decided to give 
CSS a shot to get some experience, but I'm not sure where to> begin now.> > 
Here is a jpeg of the layout to follow:> 
http://www.skeetrbeatronline.com/testpage.html> > Does anyone have any 
suggestions of how to tackle this? I am a bit confused> as to what the "best 
practice" would be here and what I can actually do with> CSS, or if I will need 
to use some simple tables as well.> > Major questions  for me:> > Does CSS use 
slices the same way that tables do? Should I keep the slices> for the tables 
that I had in mind when I started or should I take that green> circle picture 
out and just reposition it after I create a two-column with> header layout?> > 
I'm imagining using the slices that I have created as the background in a> div 
tag and then superimposing text over those. Does that make sense, and is> that 
the best way to go about this?> > Now that I have decided to go with CSS, I am 
at a loss as to where I should> begin with the rollover menu buttons.> > I know 
these are general questions, but I guess I am looking for help for a> place to 
get started. Any help/opinions/suggestions would be greatly> appreciated.> > 
Allison> 
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[css-d] Fieldset w/100% width expands beyond its form?

[Jay Levitt]

I was working on a 3-column liquid layout, based on some float-based 
layout from ALA. I then tried to use some floating divs to create 
liquid, labelled forms, and discovered that my fieldsets were expanding 
beyond their containing form in all browsers (mostly testing w/Firefox 
2).  You can see a simplified version here:

http://www.jay.fm/files/overlapping.html

I assumed this had something to do with floats or positioning.  But John 
Hosking over at comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets pointed out 
that this happens without any floats at all, just by setting fieldset 
width to 100%:

http://www.jay.fm/files/overlapping2.html

What's going on here?  Are the two problems actually the same, and if 
so, what's the right solution to get the fieldset to stay inside the 
form?  I'd think this would be a common problem but Googling and list 
archives haven't revealed anything.

Jay Levitt
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[css-d] valid ie png fix

[Beat Beer]

Hi List

is there a vaild way to get a transparent shadow repeating in an wrap  
as png over a background image. I have tried a iepng fix but the  
background did not repeat.

Thanks a lot in advance
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Re: [css-d] Beginner: fixing text to bottom of a div

[Barney Carroll]

Ingo,

Add these rules:

#heading {
position: relative;
}

#heading h1 {
bottom: 0;
position: absolute;
}

Works for me. vertical-align is a table-only property, and I resent it 
for taunting us from within those stupid confines.


Regards,
Barney


Ingo wrote:
> Dear list,
> 
> http://web-bereiter.de/chobocca.com/test06/de/index.html
> using
> http://web-bereiter.de/chobocca.com/test06/chobocca.css
> 
> I'm trying to fix the h1 to the very bottom of #heading, and fail so 
> far. The idea is to have a constant 16px gap between the heading text h1 
> and the text p in #textbox. In other words I want the textline in h1 to 
> "grow upwards", no matter what font or size. margin-bottom:0 and 
> vertical-align:bottom don't help.
> 
> Growing downwards is no problem (needed in the footer). Must be a 
> standard problem, appreciate any idea.
> 
> 
> Regards, Ingo
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Re: [css-d] Beginner layout suggestions?

[Ray Leventhal]

Allison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am re-learning CSS and XHTML after not using it for a few years and am in
> need of some suggestions. I have created a layout in Photoshop and am now
> ready to move onto the next step.  I just can't decide which step that is! I
> decided to give CSS a shot to get some experience, but I'm not sure where to
> begin now.
> 
> Here is a jpeg of the layout to follow:
> http://www.skeetrbeatronline.com/testpage.html
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions of how to tackle this? I am a bit confused
> as to what the "best practice" would be here and what I can actually do with
> CSS, or if I will need to use some simple tables as well.
> 
> Major questions  for me:
> 
> Does CSS use slices the same way that tables do? Should I keep the slices
> for the tables that I had in mind when I started or should I take that green
> circle picture out and just reposition it after I create a two-column with
> header layout?
> 
> I'm imagining using the slices that I have created as the background in a
> div tag and then superimposing text over those. Does that make sense, and is
> that the best way to go about this?
> 
> Now that I have decided to go with CSS, I am at a loss as to where I should
> begin with the rollover menu buttons.
> 
> I know these are general questions, but I guess I am looking for help for a
> place to get started. Any help/opinions/suggestions would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> Allison
Hi Allison,

Doing what you've done - making a site 'image', then designing is,
IMNSHO, the way to go, so step one is done and done well.

Were I you, I'd layout the site without the image and place it
afterwards in a floated  with a z-index sufficient to keep it on
top of the other divs in your layout.

Seems to me that the first step would be creating 3 main divs, one for
the 'banner' area, and the other two as left and right columns.

Inside your banner div, a styled  structure for your nav buttons.

For the menus, how they're done will depend greatly on at least these
two factors:
1) is the menu a single level or are there sub menu items for some/all?
2) will you use straight css or images with css?

I know this isn't much, but I do hope it helps get you started and I
hope that you'll keep us posted.  I'm looking forward to seeing it
develop! (btw, as a fellow SW Floridian, welcome!)

Kind regards,
~Ray

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Re: [css-d] css frames problem

[Ray Leventhal]

vwf wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to convert my (very) old website from a frames-site to a css
> version. 
> 
> http://www.umantec.nl/test/
> 
> With Firefox 2.0.0.6 and Opera 9.23 it looks as intended.
> With IE6 it is big mess (I do not have IE7).
> 
> The number of validator-reported errors is limited, and they are not
> grave (I think).
> 
> Can someone tell me what I do wrong?
> 
> Thanks,
> Fulko

Hi Fulko,

I haven't checked the 'innards' of your site thus far, but so that you
know, it looks great in IE7/Win (much the same as in FF2/Win).

That you have IE6 issues is not at all rare :)  Will inspect with
Firebug to see if anything IE6 specific jumps out, but I'm sure that
others with more depth and experience will be able to help.

Kind regards,
~Ray
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[css-d] Layout Almost Complete - advice and testing

[WEZ!]

Heya All again, Just a couple of bugs still in this layout of anyone 
can help with . The site is here:
http://www.newearthpermaculture.com.au/CEDD/ceddtest10.htm
The layout is fluid entirely em based with min/max size limitations 
aiming for support in IE5 and up.


IE 5 (mac) has a couple of bugs here:
The Right block expands the container by its width again. This is a 
known IE5mac bug althought the solutions are already implemented to 
no effect (display:inline and using negative margins). Any other 
ideas?
IE5(os9) the right block image isn't limited to the block dimensions 
or the image set dimensions in teh CSS code and thus jumps to the 
height of the entire browser window.

Netscape 7 (os9) completely deletes the two blocks on either side of the title

Safari 2 (osX) the title image seems to have a max width when 
enlarged in which case the image suddenly springs back to a small 
size when the window is very large (2000px + width or max font size)

I have only been able to test on IE6 on windows so could anyone give 
it a run through IEwin 5.0, 5.5 and 7 on a windows etc and let me 
know if the min/max are working as they should and the font scaling 
is working correctly. Compare to any compliant browser if you need to 
know how it is intended to look.

Thanks for any help

Wesley Lamont
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Re: [css-d] Beginner layout suggestions?

[Ingo]

Allison Kelly schrieb am 22.08.2007 00:39

> decided to give CSS a shot to get some experience, but I'm not sure where to
> begin now.

http://blog.html.it/layoutgala/

covers a lot of commonly needed designs.

 > http://www.skeetrbeatronline.com/testpage.html

http://blog.html.it/layoutgala/LayoutGala34.html

could fit here, just drop the "more stuff" div.


Regards, Ingo
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Re: [css-d] Differing font-sizes between operating systems

[Jukka K. Korpela]

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I'm working for a company in which the boss (who's originally from the
> print industry) insists on having equal line lengths in the browsers on
> different operating systems.

Sounds rather odd in several accounts, but on this list, we're supposed to 
discuss the "how to" part. Even for that, a more specific description 
(statement by the boss, I suppose) is needed. What is "equal line 
lengths"? In pixels, millimeters, characters, something else?

> So in an example text, "hello, i'm example text!", if the text is split to
> the following line at "example" on Firefox Windows, it must be split at
> "example" in Firefox Mac/Safari as well.

That's really not possible. A program cannot do what its fellow program is 
doing on another platform. Besides, line division generally depends on a 
multitude of factors, and an operating system is hardly one of them 
(though one of the factors might be differences between versions of a 
browser for different operating systems).

However, it is possible to do the following, which might (or might not) be 
what the boss really means: Make the text behave so that it either stays 
on one line or gets divided before the word "example".

In HTML you could do this in two ways, the first of which is nonstandard
but well supported too:

hello, i'm example text!

hello, i'm example text!

(Instead of   you can type the no-break space character if you know 
how to do that.)

In CSS, you would essentially need markup like first alternative:

hello, i'm example 
text!

together with CSS code

  .nobr { white-space: nowrap; }

> On Windows, I had to resort to inserting manual line-breaks where the boss
> wants the split which are not honoured on Safari for example.

I'm not sure I understand the statement. Surely the  tag is honored by 
all visual browsers. It has no well-supported CSS counterpart, but I don't 
think that's important. The issue is whether forced line breaks are a good 
idea; the way to create them is not very important.

-- 
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

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[css-d] Differing font-sizes between operating systems

[stellaris]

Hi,

I'm working for a company in which the boss (who's originally from the
print industry) insists on having equal line lengths in the browsers on
different operating systems.

So in an example text, "hello, i'm example text!", if the text is split to
the following line at "example" on Firefox Windows, it must be split at
"example" in Firefox Mac/Safari as well.

On Windows, I had to resort to inserting manual line-breaks where the boss
wants the split which are not honoured on Safari for example.

How do you solve this technically, if at all? My reasoning that you cannot
finally determine the user's operating system and settings is not
acceptable for the boss.

Please assume that influencing the line-length or font-size for the
diferent operating systems is what needs to be solved. Please, no
discussion how and why you should *not* influence it, that wouldn't help
me. It's probably to do with resolution which differs between WIn and Mac
OS, but I'm facing the situation as-is.



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[css-d] Beginner layout suggestions?

[Allison Kelly]

Hi all,

I am re-learning CSS and XHTML after not using it for a few years and am in
need of some suggestions. I have created a layout in Photoshop and am now
ready to move onto the next step.  I just can't decide which step that is! I
decided to give CSS a shot to get some experience, but I'm not sure where to
begin now.

Here is a jpeg of the layout to follow:
http://www.skeetrbeatronline.com/testpage.html

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to tackle this? I am a bit confused
as to what the "best practice" would be here and what I can actually do with
CSS, or if I will need to use some simple tables as well.

Major questions  for me:

Does CSS use slices the same way that tables do? Should I keep the slices
for the tables that I had in mind when I started or should I take that green
circle picture out and just reposition it after I create a two-column with
header layout?

I'm imagining using the slices that I have created as the background in a
div tag and then superimposing text over those. Does that make sense, and is
that the best way to go about this?

Now that I have decided to go with CSS, I am at a loss as to where I should
begin with the rollover menu buttons.

I know these are general questions, but I guess I am looking for help for a
place to get started. Any help/opinions/suggestions would be greatly
appreciated.

Allison
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Re: [css-d] IE Filters: valid or no?

[Rick Lecoat]

On 22/8/07 (11:32) Gunlaug said:

>Would be even quicker to "ask" the validator directly though :-)

Yes, it would have been... *if* I'd remembered that the validator can
accept code snippets rather than whole pages.
But I didn't.
So thanks for answering. ;-)

-- 
Rick Lecoat

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Re: [css-d] IE Filters: valid or no?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Rick Lecoat wrote:
> A real quickie here: Does the IE Filter property (eg. filter:
> alpha(opacity=50) validate under CSS 2.1?

No.
Would be even quicker to "ask" the validator directly though :-)


regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] Beginner: fixing text to bottom of a div

[Ingo]

Dear list,

http://web-bereiter.de/chobocca.com/test06/de/index.html
using
http://web-bereiter.de/chobocca.com/test06/chobocca.css

I'm trying to fix the h1 to the very bottom of #heading, and fail so 
far. The idea is to have a constant 16px gap between the heading text h1 
and the text p in #textbox. In other words I want the textline in h1 to 
"grow upwards", no matter what font or size. margin-bottom:0 and 
vertical-align:bottom don't help.

Growing downwards is no problem (needed in the footer). Must be a 
standard problem, appreciate any idea.


Regards, Ingo
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[css-d] IE Filters: valid or no?

[Rick Lecoat]

A real quickie here:
Does the IE Filter property (eg. filter: alpha(opacity=50) validate
under CSS 2.1?

-- 
Rick Lecoat

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[css-d] css frames problem

[vwf]

Hello,

I am trying to convert my (very) old website from a frames-site to a css
version. 

http://www.umantec.nl/test/

With Firefox 2.0.0.6 and Opera 9.23 it looks as intended.
With IE6 it is big mess (I do not have IE7).

The number of validator-reported errors is limited, and they are not
grave (I think).

Can someone tell me what I do wrong?

Thanks,
Fulko
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Re: [css-d] Firefox & IE Scaling Issue Goes Deeper than Fonts

[Nick Fitzsimons]

> Ohh on the other note (though I think you already know it) the screen 
> 800 px wide has 20 pixels used for the vertical scroll bar so 780 is 
> the size you will be aiming for.

Actually, scrollbar width is pretty variable and can't be assumed to have
any particular value: apart from differences between Windows, Mac and Linux
windowing systems, you will find that Windows XP has different scrollbar
widths depending on whether you use the XP or Classic look and feel.

> >The image GIF (245x216) looks remarkably larger in IE6
> >than it does in Firefox 2.0.0.6.
> >
> >Can anyone explain this, or does anyone have a fix for
> >this?

Firefox will, IIRC, automatically scale down an image greater in size than
the window to fit. Clicking on the image will restore it to full size.
However this might only apply when viewing the image directly, not when
viewing it within a page. IE has a similar mechanism, at least up to version
6.

> >I accidentally stumbled upon this issue while trying to
> >record the screen. Even with the width set to 770px IE
> >produces a horizontal scroll bar. What gives?

IE blows? :-)

> >Here's the CSS and the code, below:

To be honest that's no real help to us; for a start we don't have the image
on our computers so we can't see what you're seeing. (Note that, in common
with most mailing lists, this list strips out attachments, so if you
included anything that way we won't see it.) It's much better to post a link
to the problematic page so people can test with the precise content that
you're having problems with.

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/

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