[css-d] some problems...

[Paul Ravenstone]

Ok I have it looking exactly like I want it in ie7, (www.pmcsravenstone.com )
everything else, breaks... I don't know where I went wrong. IE5.5 is all
flippin' out, does it not accept margin: 0 auto? IE6 obviously does not
accept png transparency... why exactly did they forget that? And on that
note, please see attached and let me know what you think about this 'fix?'
Everything else(FF, Opera, IE8b2, Chrome, all of them) breaks the exact same
way, so I know it's me. What I'm seeing is extra space, assuming some kind
of margin?, between the #navdiv and the #container. As well as, the #content
won't acknowledge the margin-top: 20px that I set for it. All help is kindly
appreciated!,
Paul Ravenstone

-- 
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created them.
~Albert Einstein

If you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against.
 The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease.
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Re: [css-d] Tweak needed for IE6

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

>> I'm seeing another issue I had in IE6 where the background image of
>> my left-side navigation is repeating just a tiny bit below the
>> bottom of the navigation container.

> RE: 

IE6 interprets empty elements to contain whitespace, and since IE6
doesn't respect declared dimensions it expands the element to contain
that imaginary whitespace.

Add...
#navbottom {overflow: hidden;}
...to enforce declared dimensions, and it'll be fine.

regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] Tweak needed for IE6

[David Laakso]

Kym Costanzo wrote:
> David Laakso wrote: 
>   
>> IE/6 needs a little more horizontal room. One why to do that is to feed a
>> 
> wider outer width:
>   
>> * html #maincontainer {
>> width: 910px;
>> } /* 4 IE/6.0*/
>> 
>
>
> Thanks, David - that tweak did work well and I learned something new! 
>
> I'm seeing another issue I had in IE6 where the background image of my
> left-side navigation is repeating just a tiny bit below the bottom of the
> navigation container. I thought before that it was all part of the same
> problem but apparently not. I can't seem to see why from my markup or my CSS
> why this would be happening... Any insight on this one? 
>
> Thank you so much again for your help, this list is awesome. 
>
> Kym 
>
>
>   

RE: 

Kym,

I regret I do not know the answer to your question. Perhaps someone else 
on the list will be kind enough to lend a hand...

~d



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Re: [css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[css]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 11:06:24PM +0100, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> FWIW: we generally don't use, or need, html tables for layout.

The whole point of this exercise is so I can re-do my website
using CSS for layout, learning how to do it with my simple 2
column layout. 

And now I can! Hurrah!

However, many of the older pages will still have tables for layout
within the main content itself, which is a project for another time,
and (to my embarrassment) so does the test page I showed you.
The idea "let's do this properly and not use tables in the template"
was a late addition! But now I have some idea of what I am doing
I will do my best to use CSS and not tables for new sites, and to
remove them where I can and where I have time from existing ones.

The intention is there I assure you - that was the whole point
of what I was doing today.

Sorry about the legacy tables! And thanks for the help!
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Re: [css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[css]

Ignore me - all fixed - I went through stylesheet 1 thing at
a time taking it out and seeing what happened... and found a 
max-width that I completely didn't see when I read the whole
file... it's been a long day.

Thanks so much for your help and advice!
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Re: [css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> However, this doesn't make any difference in Firefox. I guess maybe 
> when I get my code validating it might work? Otherwise the only
> difference appears to be text size.

Validity is a good thing, but unless you have some horrible errors that
browsers can't figure out a somewhat common correction for, validity in
itself won't change how browsers render your page.

The 'body {font-size: 100%} you have now gives the same font-size in all
browsers - default. However, the 'font-size: 80%' you have further in
will end up +/- 1px because of rounding-differences in various browsers.
That is as expected.

>> which means IE7 doesn't support 'min-width'.
> 
> This was a desparate gambit of mine; I should have taken it out when 
> it didn't work!

It does work - in 'standards mode'.

> Ok, maybe I misunderstand here. My understanding of box model is that
>  IE doesn't quite align as other more "correct" browsers, so you need
>  to add extra, slightly skewed, directions in the CSS which IE will
> read but which other browsers will ignore. So I'm not sure if I've
> missed something?

IE6 in 'standards mode' uses exactly the same box model as Firefox.

> Firefox is still looking the same... no idea how to fix it.

Which version? No Fx version drops anything at my end.

You have managed to squish the main content into a narrower space in all
browsers but IE6, and haven't done anything to prevent main-content
dropping in IE6.

I'm not sure what you want that page to look like in any browser
anymore, so I'll step aside until you have made up your mind on the issue.

FWIW: we generally don't use, or need, html tables for layout.

regards
Georg   
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Re: [css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[css]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 08:41:47PM +0100, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> The incomplete doctype makes browsers stay in quirks mode.
> See: 

Fixing that (while still staying with transitional) has worked well
thank you - I was worried I'd have to change the code on all pages,
but it seems fine. 

I also used your "tough" fix to sort out IE and (after removing all
my min-width declarations in a fit of pique) have put a single min-width
in so that Firefox behaves itself as well.

So the original problem is dealt with! Hurrah! 

But of course, this has introduced some new ones!

The main issues are that the right hand edge edge should flow with 
browser window size, and the left hand column is just a little too 
far to the right.

Pointers on the flowing right hand edge would be welcome. The rest
I can hopefully just work out and neaten up, but I'm not really sure 
why it's stopped flowing. Could that be the "tough" fix you suggested?

I appreciate this is probably caused by not understanding 100%
how everything in CSS works, but until you ask you won't learn! 

Thanks for any and all help,
-- 
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Re: [css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Anne E. Shroeder wrote:

> Georg, what do you mean by "it'll switch box model"?  Are you saying 
> it's possible to fool IE6 into not using its default box model 
> standards?

Not fool it...
All somewhat new browsers will switch to 'standards mode' if given a
proper doctype to switch on. If the doctype is missing, too garbled, or
incomplete, they'll stay in 'quirks mode' - for backwards compatibility.

In 'quirks mode' IE6 and later versions will use the old MSIE box model,
while in 'standards mode', aka 'strict mode' in IE6/7, they'll use the
W3C box model.

Only IE needs doctype...

...and it needs it badly since it simply dumps support for CSS and
reverts to IE5.5 level if not given one.

regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[css]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 08:41:47PM +0100, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> > http://gorge.org/newdes/
> 
> > But if you narrow the browser window, the content goes below the 
> > navbar. Argh!
> 
> The incomplete doctype makes browsers stay in quirks mode.
> See: 

Ah! Thank you. Of course as soon as I change that, I have new
issues to deal with (code that no longer validates) but at least
I have a direction to go in!

However, this doesn't make any difference in Firefox. I guess maybe
when I get my code validating it might work? Otherwise the only difference
appears to be text size.

> which means IE7 doesn't support 'min-width'.

This was a desparate gambit of mine; I should have taken it out when
it didn't work!

> A proper - complete - doctype will get IE7 somewhat up to speed, but the
> 'min-width' value is too small for it when it starts supporting the W3C
> box model. IE6 doesn't support 'min-width' anyway, but it'll switch box
> model.

Ok, maybe I misunderstand here. My understanding of box model is that
IE doesn't quite align as other more "correct" browsers, so you need
to add extra, slightly skewed, directions in the CSS which IE will read
but which other browsers will ignore. So I'm not sure if I've missed
something?

> To prevent IE7, 6 and older from dropping #content no matter which mode
> they're in, you can add...
> 
> #leftnav {margin-bottom: -1px;}

That works great in IE. Thanks for that (and for being prepared to 
offer a rough and ready suggestion rather than just "fix your code").

Firefox is still looking the same... no idea how to fix it.
-- 
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[css-d] Explorer glitch?

[Kevin Evans]

Hello,

I am working on a site here http://www.marksandharrison.com/homepage01.asp 
  and I am having problems in Explorer on the Safety Alerts accordion  
menu news thingy in the content area below the En Esponal button.

It works fine in FIrefox but in IE there is a  graphic glitch below  
the Consumer Safety News and above Prescription Drug Alerts. The site  
does not have a doctype, and if I add one it fixes but then breaks  
some other parts fo the site.

So I need a way to fix this area without the doctype, in quirksmode. I  
tried throwing some hasLayout hacks at it but no go.

Any ideas?

THanks!

Kevin
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Re: [css-d] Tweak needed for IE6

[David Laakso]

Kym Costanzo wrote:
> This is my first post to the list, I hope I post according to list
> etiquette! 
>  
> The site I am working on looks fine in IE7 and Firefox 2 and 3. But it is
> messed up in IE6. The contents of my main content area are being pushed down
> and do not begin displaying until below my sidebars in IE6. 
>  
> Staging site: http://www.youregoingtolovethisbank.com
>  
> CSS file: http://www.youregoingtolovethisbank.com/css/hnc_styles.css
>  
> I am sure it is a minor tweak but I can't seem to find out exactly what
> tweak that is... any help would be SO appreciated. Thank you. 
>  
> Kym 
>
>   

Welcome!

IE/6 needs a little more horizontal room. One why to do that is to feed 
a wider outer width:
* html #maincontainer {
width: 910px;
} /* 4 IE/6.0*/

Couple of markup errors you may want to attend to.
FWIW, your tiny type scales well in compliant browsers but is frozen in 
the IEs if this is of concern to your client's users.






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Re: [css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[Anne E. Shroeder]

 "Gunlaug Sørtun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote about:
>> http://gorge.org/newdes/
>
> A proper - complete - doctype will get IE7 somewhat up to speed, but the
> 'min-width' value is too small for it when it starts supporting the W3C
> box model. IE6 doesn't support 'min-width' anyway, but it'll switch box
> model.

Georg, what do you mean by "it'll switch box model"?  Are you saying it's 
possible to fool IE6 into not using its default box model standards?

Anne

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Re: [css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> http://gorge.org/newdes/

> But if you narrow the browser window, the content goes below the 
> navbar. Argh!

The incomplete doctype makes browsers stay in quirks mode.
See: 

For IE6 and 7 that means: no support for CSS above what IE5.5 supports,
which means IE7 doesn't support 'min-width'.

A proper - complete - doctype will get IE7 somewhat up to speed, but the
'min-width' value is too small for it when it starts supporting the W3C
box model. IE6 doesn't support 'min-width' anyway, but it'll switch box
model.

To prevent IE7, 6 and older from dropping #content no matter which mode
they're in, you can add...

#leftnav {margin-bottom: -1px;}

...which is a "tough" fix in that it makes the #leftnav take up no
space - in any browser. This will of course only work on pages where
#content is always taller than the "no-space" #leftnav, like yours is now.

regards
Georg
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[css-d] Tweak needed for IE6

[Kym Costanzo]

This is my first post to the list, I hope I post according to list
etiquette! 
 
The site I am working on looks fine in IE7 and Firefox 2 and 3. But it is
messed up in IE6. The contents of my main content area are being pushed down
and do not begin displaying until below my sidebars in IE6. 
 
Staging site: http://www.youregoingtolovethisbank.com
 
CSS file: http://www.youregoingtolovethisbank.com/css/hnc_styles.css
 
I am sure it is a minor tweak but I can't seem to find out exactly what
tweak that is... any help would be SO appreciated. Thank you. 
 
Kym 
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[css-d] misalignment in form & extra spacing IE7

[Barb @ BITS LLC]

Hi --

On this page -- http://thebirdhouseny.com/index.php

I'm having two issues, I'm looking for help with. 

   1. In IE7 the "Go" to the right of the search box is pushed down one
  line.  Everything looks fine in Firefox.
   2. In IE7, there is extra white space at the bottom between the
  bottom of the gray box and the end of the content area (white). 
  The gray should reach all the way to the green background. 

Both of these items are none issues in Firefox.

All pointers are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Barb


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[css-d] PNG background repeat-y problem in IE6

[rollandburn]

Hi everyone...  I have an IE6 issue that I could really use some help with.
The site is here http://www.earthsys.ca/Careers/ (index page not working
yet)

It seems that the vertically repeating background image on my #container div
will only reach down so far on pages with longer content, only in IE6.  If I
then shift refresh the page the background fills the container as expected.


I have the Twin Helix png htc working, and have added its associated js file
that tiles png backgrounds, in my case vertically. Sometimes it works,
sometimes it doesn't.   Can anyone see any conflicting css or problems that
may instigate this background repeat problem?

thanks!
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[css-d] Gap between divs in IE

[Peter Ritchie]

Thank you everyone for your help - I feel humbled that I did not  
validate the css first. Spry errors come free from Adobe and did not  
feel it was my place to touch them!

Peter
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Re: [css-d] Gap between divs in IE

[David Laakso]

Peter Ritchie wrote:
> The top bar image should be flush with the bottom of the top  
> background image. It is fine except in IE. Any help would be  
> gratefully appreciated
> http://www.catalogntime.com
>
> Peter Ritchie
>   


#topline img {display:block;}



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Re: [css-d] Gap between divs in IE

[Jack Timmons]

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Peter Ritchie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The top bar image should be flush with the bottom of the top
> background image. It is fine except in IE. Any help would be
> gratefully appreciated
> http://www.catalogntime.com
>
> Peter Ritchie

Before troubleshooting your CSS, you should first make sure it's valid:

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21&warning=0&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catalogntime.com%2F

You might want to look into that first. There seem to be misplaced
braces among other things.

-Jack

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[css-d] narrowing browser window moves div to the bottom

[css]

Hi,

I know it seems like I'm posting out of the blue, but I've been
on and off this list as workload permits!

However recently I've been making a real effort to use CSS instead
of tables for layout, but I still don't quite get it...

Here's a new demo of my personal website: http://gorge.org/newdes/

Now if you view in IE and the window is wider than 751 pixels,
you will probably see it how I intend - with nav down the left
and content filling the space on the white background.

But if you narrow the browser window, the content goes below
the navbar. Argh! 

And in firefox, it doesn't matter how wide the browser - it does 
the same.

So there is plainly something I'm not getting. Perhaps a way to
anchor the main content to the top? I've tried giving it 
position: absolute but couldn't get that to work either! 

I'm sure I am missing the point so I am very happy to learn how
to fix this if anyone is able and willing to advise me.

Up til now I've always used tables for layout so I'd really 
like to understand and get this nailed!

Cheers,
-- 
Flash Bristow -Web Design & Mastery -07939 579090
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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[css-d] Gap between divs in IE

[Peter Ritchie]

The top bar image should be flush with the bottom of the top  
background image. It is fine except in IE. Any help would be  
gratefully appreciated
http://www.catalogntime.com

Peter Ritchie
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Re: [css-d] Problem with form in IE6 and IE7 [Solved]

[Peter Bradley]

Ysgrifennodd Bill Brown:
> Hi Peter,
>
> The DL.DT.DD family is a rare and unique jewel in the family of HTML 
> tags and the only one I know of with such a relationship between the 
> three elements in the sub-family. I've used it many times and been 
> pretty happy with it. That being said, it doesn't fit in this case and 
> there's already a set of tags for this.
>
> I can understand Jukka's suggestion to use tables to achieve the desired 
> effect and I've looked at his page, but I'd like to offer an 
> alternative. One thing that is commonly overlooked is that the label 
> element is permitted to wrap around it's associated input element such 
> that instead of this:
> Label Text:
> ...we're also allowed this:
> Label Text:
>
> When we make the label element display:block, we then get a row we can 
> work with. Throw your label text into a span, add a little float and 
> negative margin magic and we can very closely emulate what we could 
> achieve with tables.
>
> I've prepared a snippet of your form using this method and published it 
> at this URL:
> http://theholiergrail.com/cssd/spanish-intensives-form.html
>
>   
Heck!  You guys are good.  From being without a solution I now have four
of yours to pick from and one of my own.

Whilst playing around with the form at work (don't tell my boss, as this
is not a for-work project), I discovered that if I used an ordered list
rather than a definition list, I got something much easier to handle. 
I'll mess about with all the solutions now, and probably pick the one
that I feel most comfortable with for maintenance and re-use.

Many thanks for all your help.  It's much appreciated.

Cheers


Peter

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[css-d] equal length columns in hybrid layout

[Elaine LaBonte]

The immediate goal is to make the vertical line separating the two content 
columns on this page:  
http://labontewebstudio.com/accessibility-web210-today/web210-labonte-categories.htm

It's a template-based page, so it needs to work regardless of which column is 
longer. 

Although there are several ways to make the columns equal length in a fixed 
layout, I haven't been able to find a way to do this with a hybrid or liquid 
layout.  is there such a thing?

Thanks a lot for your help.
Elaine LaBonte

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[css-d] Cancel: Fw: equal length columns in hybrid layout

[Elaine LaBonte]

I'm sorry.  I just saw the answer from Christian Kirchhoff and expect my answer 
there.  

Thanks,
Elaine

--- On Mon, 12/1/08, Elaine LaBonte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Elaine LaBonte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: equal length columns in hybrid layout
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 11:42 AM

The immediate goal is to make the vertical line separating the two content 
columns on this page:  
http://labontewebstudio.com/accessibility-web210-today/web210-labonte-categories.htm

It's a template-based page, so it needs to work regardless of which column is 
longer. 

Although there are several ways to make the columns equal length in a fixed 
layout, I haven't been able to find a way to do this with a hybrid or liquid 
layout.  is there such a thing?

Thanks a lot for your help.
Elaine LaBonte

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List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/