date:20090220

ray wrote:

 View this page http://guru.hcoms.co.uk/ on IE6. There is no margin at
  the bottom of the top menu at the minute, but if you move the mouse 
 to one of the menu items in the left side menu, a margin at the 
 bottom of the top menu appears, and if you moves the mouse back on 
 one of the menu items in the top menu, the margin will disappear 
 again.

Add a 'hasLayout'[1] trigger to #topBar, like so...

* html #topBar {height: 1%;}

...to stabilize it in IE6.

regards
Georg

[1]http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
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Re: [css-d] Text position in IE


 Del Wegener wrote:

   
 http://www.edi-cp.com/newweb/products_ul_intro.php
 

   
   
 Where can I read more about this stuff?
 

   


Del,

I think you'll find things will go better if you follow known standard 
convention. There is no need to re-invent the wheel each time you do a 
new layout-- even if those pages are being designed by a print media 
designer. These are some tutorial/layouts. The are simple base 
foundation structures. They are stable, robust, and work cross-browser. 
Mind well what you put in them and they'll perform well for you. Each of 
them is adaptable to most any situation.
http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/csslayout/2-col/
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins
http://blog.html.it/layoutgala/





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Re: [css-d] Text position in IE

2009-02-20 Thread Del Wegener




 Del Wegener wrote:

 http://www.edi-cp.com/newweb/products_ul_intro.php

 Thanks Georg.  I decided that I really did want spans and not divs. I
  made the changes you suggested and of course everything worked 
 perfectly! I then tried to find out what your css changes were all about. 
 After much searching and reading I think I understand what they 
 accomplish but I have no earthly idea of why they are needed. Nor do I 
 see any way of figuring out what to do the next time.

 Some folks seem to advise using overflow-x:hidden all the time on 
 columns. Why?  Why did you show that to IE 6 and  only?

 IE6 expanded the width of that element initially - on your original, and
 'overflow-x:hidden' is the quickest way to prevent such buggy expansion.

How do you determine that indeed IE expands the width of an element?

 And, NO, one should NEVER add such restrictions unless there are real
 problems and no better ways to fix them. Overstyling with all kinds of
 fixes doesn't make IE6 any better, only buggier and more difficult to
 control.

 I am pretty sure that * html div#container is seen only by IE6 whereas 
 *+html ... is seen only by IE7. Statements of the form   /* IE6 */ are 
 strictly comments to enhance readability by us mere mortals.

 Correct (I don't need those comments ;-) ).

In this case I did.  I like comments.


 Why on earth should I suspect that  I need * html h1 {  float:left; 
 margin: 1em; 0;}   ?

 Apart from IE being made on earth: no particular reason other than
 that old IE is buggy. That's why we Norwegians have declared war on the
 worst version (IE6)...
 http://blog.wired.com/business/2009/02/norwegian-websi.html
 ...and hope to reduce its numbers to a level where we web designers can
 more or less ignore its existence - at least in our part of the world.

 Do I need such a hack everytime I use H1, H2, or any of the other head 
 tags?

 Nope. It depends on their relations to other elements and their styles,
 when subjected to IE bugs.

 In your case the h1 was wedged in between two of the right-floats and
 prevented the paragraphs from flowing up - as old IE saw it, so I
 decided to float the headline out of there so it could rise to the top.

How can you determine that h1 is wedged in between two of the right 
floats?
I think this answers a question about another page I have been working on.



 Where can I read more about this stuff?

 You'll find some in these places...

 http://www.brunildo.org/test/index.html
 http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html
 http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/
 http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_02_03.html

I will read these later today.

 ...but the only way to get a real understanding of these things, is to
 create loads of tough test cases - as real world like as you can make
 them - and run these cases across browser-land. Then browsers will
 expose their weaknesses and bugs, and you can test out which fixes that
 work and which doesn't. Nothing beats experience.

And a good memory?

 regards
 Georg

 PS: David Laakso pointed out [off-list] that your page, and my example,
 looks a bit broken on really wide browser windows - the right-floats
 part ends up looking weird since most floats expand in width while the
 topmost with the image doesn't.
 A 'max-width' of 1200 to 1400px added on #container would pretty much
 solve that.

I will make the change.


 http://www.gunlaug.no


Thanks for your response -- it is very helpful.
Sorry about violating protocol by responding interspersed in the message--it 
seemed to be the only efficient way.

Del 


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[css-d] CSS - IE7 redraw on scroll bug

2009-02-20 Thread Professional Web Pages - Information

To whom it may concern,


I am having a CSS issue with IE7 only - this bug does not appear in any 
other browser - would you please be able to investigate this for me.

The issue is located at the following location:

 http://www.reinhardwurtz.net/


The issue happened in IE 7 only and when you move your mouse over random 
parts of the page or have scrolled, the top part of the footer 
vanishes. (more specifically the body shrinks for some reason?)

Would you please be able to:

a.) verify if anyone else is having the same problem on other web 
projects - if so, what is the known issue name in the community for 
future reference
b.) provide suggestions on how to resolve this issue.

Please note this site is still in beta - and does not represent the 
final design. Many thanks in advance

Regards
PWP



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[css-d] good tutorials

2009-02-20 Thread David McGlone

Hi all,

I've been browsing the web for a few days looking at css tutorials, but I 
thought I would ask the list if they knew of any good ones that I may have 
missed. I'm looking for something that goes in depth with explanation, not 
tutorials.

Also, I've been looking for a good PHP/CSS IDE program for linux does anyone 
know of any good ones? I downloaded the trail version of Zend and I found 
Aptana studio. I haven't tried either one yet, so I can't comment on them.

The reason for the IDE is because I'm looking for an easier way to program. I 
get confused and start feeling overwhelmed with so many windows open at times, 
Kate for coding, firefox for checking, konqueror for ftp, and cervisia for 
CVS, So I'm trying to find a good IDE that will combine as much of these as 
possible.

Blessings,
-- 
David M.
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Re: [css-d] Text position in IE

Del Wegener wrote:

 How do you determine that indeed IE expands the width of an element?

As always: observe, add temporary fixes for specific bugs, and compare
with what comes out in other browsers.
Once determined: remove temporary fixes and/or replace them with real
fixes, and perform thorough testing to make sure the final fix works as
intended - also under stress.

 Correct (I don't need those comments ;-) ).
 
 In this case I did.  I like comments.

Thought so - that's why I put them in there :-)

 How can you determine that h1 is wedged in between two of the right
  floats? I think this answers a question about another page I have 
 been working on.

I perform two simple tests, and compare IE's reaction with that of
better browsers.
1: remove the element (1) from the markup, and see what happens.
2: style it out of the way in various ways, and see what happens.

Remember that all software leave telltale evidence when bugs are
provoked, so with some experience one can often recognize particular
bugs in a particular piece of software - without looking at the code. It
is after all in most cases the same ol' bugs we're dealing with...
http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_38.html

 [...] Nothing beats experience.
 
 And a good memory?

Certainly doesn't hurt. Mine isn't particularly good anymore, but more
than 40 years in software/hardware development has left useful traces
that help me focus on the case at hand.
Digital data-banks and hand-written notes hold the rest.

 Sorry about violating protocol by responding interspersed in the 
 message--it seemed to be the only efficient way.

Nothing wrong in interweaving responses like we have done.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] good tutorials

David McGlone wrote:
 Hi all,

 I've been browsing the web for a few days looking at css tutorials, but I 
 thought I would ask the list if they knew of any good ones that I may have 
 missed. I'm looking for something that goes in depth with explanation, not 
 tutorials.
   

Try the Site Point CSS Reference
http://reference.sitepoint.com/css
Sorry, can't help with your other questions. Kind of off-topic. This 
list is devoted to practical applications of CSS.
You may find some helpful links on the list wiki?
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic




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Re: [css-d] good tutorials

2009-02-20 Thread Virgilio Quilario

 Hi all,

 I've been browsing the web for a few days looking at css tutorials, but I
 thought I would ask the list if they knew of any good ones that I may have
 missed. I'm looking for something that goes in depth with explanation, not
 tutorials.

 Also, I've been looking for a good PHP/CSS IDE program for linux does anyone
 know of any good ones? I downloaded the trail version of Zend and I found
 Aptana studio. I haven't tried either one yet, so I can't comment on them.

 The reason for the IDE is because I'm looking for an easier way to program. I
 get confused and start feeling overwhelmed with so many windows open at times,
 Kate for coding, firefox for checking, konqueror for ftp, and cervisia for
 CVS, So I'm trying to find a good IDE that will combine as much of these as
 possible.

 Blessings,
 --
 David M.

Hi David,

Here is a link to w3 css online resources http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/learning
It provides links to excellent tutorials and in depth information about css.

for your PHP/CSS IDE, you can try netbeans for php and see if it has
all the things you listed above.
pardon for the spoiler. :)

Virgil
http://www.jampmark.com
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Re: [css-d] Can CSS compare the href to the URL and if they match, highlight the href?

2009-02-20 Thread Sandy


 I believe there is a way to add code to SSI includes, IIRC. However,
 for a CSS solution, your last method is probably the easiest to implement.

Thanks for thinking about this, David. I guess I will go with what I've 
come up with - it's been great having all this input.

thanks all!
Sandy
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[css-d] Newbie needs help with menu

2009-02-20 Thread Bobbi Ashley

I borrowed this menu from Stu Nickols at 
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/final_drop.html

It works fine in Firefox but IE only displays half of it.  Anyone have any 
suggestions?  My problematic one is at 
http://www.stillpointtheatrecollective.org/obamadesign/menustunickolsmenubar.html
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Re: [css-d] Why this page moves?

2009-02-20 Thread ray

great, it works. I had encountered several times for this reason. I hope
I'll not ask this kind of question in the future. :)
Thanks a lot.

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net wrote:

 ray wrote:

  View this page http://guru.hcoms.co.uk/ on IE6. There is no margin at
  the bottom of the top menu at the minute, but if you move the mouse to
 one of the menu items in the left side menu, a margin at the bottom of the
 top menu appears, and if you moves the mouse back on one of the menu items
 in the top menu, the margin will disappear again.


 Add a 'hasLayout'[1] trigger to #topBar, like so...

 * html #topBar {height: 1%;}

 ...to stabilize it in IE6.

 regards
Georg

 [1]http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
 --
 http://www.gunlaug.no

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Re: [css-d] CSS - IE7 redraw on scroll bug

2009-02-20 Thread Alan Gresley

Professional Web Pages - Information wrote:
 To whom it may concern,
 
 
 I am having a CSS issue with IE7 only - this bug does not appear in any 
 other browser - would you please be able to investigate this for me.
 
 The issue is located at the following location:
 
  http://www.reinhardwurtz.net/
 
 
 The issue happened in IE 7 only and when you move your mouse over random 
 parts of the page or have scrolled, the top part of the footer 
 vanishes. (more specifically the body shrinks for some reason?)
[...]
 Regards
 PWP


You have some Pee-ka-boo activity [1]. I think it is partially triggered 
due to the clearing break.

br style=clear:both; /

and some other styles. A similar thing happens in this demo.

http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/strangepeekaboobug.htm

The bug can be fixed by giving the div.scrollable hasLayout or maybe 
adjusting the positioning the bottom part of div.scrollable to be out of 
the problem zone where it wont be noticed. This could be done by giving 
the header more height. Crazy crazy bug.


1. 
http://css-class.com/articles/explorer/floats/escaping-floats-peekaboo.htm



-- 
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo

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[css-d] ie/FF Lay Out Bug

2009-02-20 Thread CSS Web Development

List D;

 

I've put my CSS in this page: http://machalek.com/KC/ContactUs2.cfm

 

It looks great in IE (strange, I know), but I don't know why it's not
doing what I think it should do in Fire Fox.   (?)

 

If someone can take a quick look, I would appreciate it.

 

Sincerely;

 

KC

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Re: [css-d] ie/FF Lay Out Bug

2009-02-20 Thread Alan Gresley

CSS Web Development wrote:
 List D;
 
 I've put my CSS in this page: http://machalek.com/KC/ContactUs2.cfm
 
 
 It looks great in IE (strange, I know), but I don't know why it's not
 doing what I think it should do in Fire Fox.   (?)
 
 
 If someone can take a quick look, I would appreciate it.
 
 Sincerely; KC


If you remove the height from div#innerTop FF begins to behave. You have 
a declared height for that element which FF will observe.


#innerTop{
clear: both;
height: 100px; /* delete */
width: 100%;
font-size: .85em;
}


In IE, the div#leftside clears the div#innerTop since both height and 
width are layout triggers. The floated left div#leftside can not cross a 
hasLayout boundary.

BTW, since you don't have a DOCTYPE, IE any version is in quirks mode. 
See more here about doctypes [1] which shows a table of doctypes at the 
base of the page.

1. http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/


-- 
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo

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Re: [css-d] ie/FF Lay Out Bug

2009-02-20 Thread Jason Newington

Hi,

Try removing the 'height:100px;' from #innertop.
Jace

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:50 PM, CSS Web Development c...@machalek.comwrote:

 List D;



 I've put my CSS in this page: http://machalek.com/KC/ContactUs2.cfm



 It looks great in IE (strange, I know), but I don't know why it's not
 doing what I think it should do in Fire Fox.   (?)



 If someone can take a quick look, I would appreciate it.



 Sincerely;



 KC

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Re: [css-d] What is this CSS?

2009-02-20 Thread David Hucklesby

On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:27:43 -0500, David Laakso wrote:
 Sarah Atkinson wrote:
 Found this in one of the css files a co worker sent me with his design
 templete. What is it for? Anyone know? Is it legal? And what is with the *

 * html #facebox_overlay { /* ie6 hack */  position: absolute;  height:
 expression(document.body.scrollHeight  document.body.offsetHeight ?
 document.body.scrollHeight : document.body.offsetHeight + 'px'); }


 Its an IE expession,  DHTML being feed to IE/6 and down-- no support for
 min/max width or height (many such variations available) depending on the
 specific need. They are usually hid from the w3c Validation Service by
 enclosing in a Conditional Comment.
 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512(VS.85).aspx

So-called conditional comments seemed nice, until I wound up with
four additional style sheets just for IE. So I do wonder about the
utility of hiding CSS from the validator?

I mean, I can and do make mistakes in those hidden style sheets
that the validator could catch. As for the non-validating code, well,
my British English spell checker tells me that color is spelled
wrongly, but in the context of an article about CSS I would simply
ignore the error. What is so special about CSS that I need to trick
the validator just to get a passing grade?

Just wondering.

Cordially,
David
--


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Re: [css-d] Newbie needs help with menu

Bobbi Ashley wrote:

 http://www.stillpointtheatrecollective.org/obamadesign/menustunickolsmenubar.html
 
 It works fine in Firefox but IE only displays half of it.

IE6, you mean?

Looks like your markup is faulty...

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stillpointtheatrecollective.org%2Fobamadesign%2Fmenustunickolsmenubar.htmlcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inliness=1group=0user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.606

...and IE6 depends on 100% perfect markup and lte IE 6 hacks for that
menu to work.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] What is this CSS?

David Hucklesby wrote:

  What is so special about CSS that I need to trick
 the validator just to get a passing grade?

 Just wondering.

 Cordially,
 David
 --



   

Hiding invalid code from the validator doesn't make that code valid. 
There is no rule, regulation, or mandate stipulating you need get a 
passing grade for CSS, or anything else for that matter. It's your call 
to do as you choose.



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Re: [css-d] What is this CSS?

David Hucklesby wrote:

  What is so special about CSS that I need to trick
 the validator just to get a passing grade?

 Just wondering.

 Cordially,
 David
 --



   

Hiding invalid code from the validator doesn't make that code valid. 
There is no rule, regulation, or mandate stipulating you need get a 
passing grade for CSS, or anything else for that matter. It's your call 
to do as you choose.



-- 

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[css-d] Script and css problem 2

I think I've solved the Font-sizing problem.

But still having some problem with some Negative margins and maybe
some other things that I've not yet  have discovered

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Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk
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Re: [css-d] Script and css problem 2

2009/2/20 Ib Jensen ibkjen...@gmail.com:
 I think I've solved the Font-sizing problem.

 But still having some problem with some Negative margins and maybe
 some other things that I've not yet  have discovered

Forgot the link:

http://ikjensen.dk




-- 
Regards / Mhv.
Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk
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[css-d] IE - z-index

2009-02-20 Thread Travis Killen

I am having a problem with IE7 displaying my popup menus behind other 
elements.

Please see my page here:
http://forestry.sfasu.edu/

You can see the problem clearly by hovering over the forestry link.  The 
page displays correctly in Firefox.

Thanks in advance,
- Travis Killen
http://936webdesign.com
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Re: [css-d] What is this CSS?

David Hucklesby wrote:

So-called conditional comments seemed nice, until I wound up with
four additional style sheets just for IE. So I do wonder about the
utility of hiding CSS from the validator?

If hiding CSS from the validator is what conditional comments are used
for - and that's too often the case, then it's a completely nonsensical
exercise.
It is something about those holy cows and standards...
http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/molly_1_08.html

OTOH, hiding _is_ an unavoidable side-effect of targeting IE through
CCs though, so it may be excusable in some cases.

I mean, I can and do make mistakes in those hidden style sheets that
the validator could catch.

Indeed.

We can of course use the validator to our advantage anyway, by linking
directly to the hidden stylesheet.

In that respect my @import hacks for serving corrections to IE7 and
older IE versions are a lot more problematic. I can only validate those
stylesheets through direct input, as responses like this...
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/styles/url(ag2c_con.css)%20allwarning=1profile=css21
...don't tell me much.

As for the non-validating code, well, my British English spell
checker tells me that color is spelled wrongly, but in the context
of an article about CSS I would simply ignore the error.

Holy smoke...
http://annevankesteren.nl/2009/02/www-style-thursday
:-)

What is so special about CSS that I need to trick the validator just
to get a passing grade?

Getting a passing grade matters a lot to some, even if the code isn't up
to it. Some just love those valid icons too much.

My position on the issue is that if/when we have to serve hacks, CSS
hacks are to be preferred. The markup should be as meaningful, flawless
and valid (in that order) as we can possibly make it, since the markup
is the base everything else acts on. If the bar has to be lowered in
order to make a browser behave, then let's lower it for CSS.

That CSS hacks are visible to the world shouldn't bother anyone. Most
can't see the difference between valid and non-valid code, and couldn't
care less. Those who do, should know why both valid and non-valid hacks
are sometimes the lesser of many evils.

The problem with hacks is *not* that many of them are non-valid, but
that those who put them in have too little knowledge about browsers and
hacks to justify the hacks existence.
Hacking is dangerous business - breaks far more browsers than browser
bugs ever did, IMO, and hacks should *only* be introduced when the
hacker knows perfectly well what s/he is doing.

Leaving all hacks open to the public, and to the validator, is immensely
useful when in the process of getting rid of totally unwarranted hacks.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Script and css problem 2

Ib Jensen wrote:


 Are  you and me writing about the same thing:

 My body in .css looks like this:

 body {background:#0b0f3b;color:#f0;font-size:100%;font-family:Georgia,
 Times, Times New Roman, serif;}


 Link: http://ikjensen.dk/test/

   


Looks much better. I was on the wrong page. Only your signature link was 
on your post to css-d.



-- 

A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming.
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Script and css problem 2

2009/2/20 David Laakso da...@chelseacreekstudio.com:
 Ib Jensen wrote:


 Are  you and me writing about the same thing:

 Looks much better. I was on the wrong page. Only your signature link was on
 your post to css-d.

Then you problably missed the second post, where the link was.

I won't comment on what you wrote about some time ago about your vision ;-)



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Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk
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Re: [css-d] Script and css problem 2

2009/2/20 David Laakso da...@chelseacreekstudio.com:
 Ib Jensen wrote:

 What browsers seem to be giving you difficulty with margins?

And a Display markup in some CC, problably in the .js-file.

Webdeveloper in FF 2.x and 3.x


 aside; might be best to keep this thread on css-d, rather than list
 jumping...

OK, by me

It started with a  Script-problem whitch I belived wasn't a subject
here, thats why i wrote in the other list.



-- 
Regards / Mhv.
Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk
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Re: [css-d] IE - z-index