Re: [css-d] Browser Support: Alternate Style Sheets?

2011-03-27 Thread Jukka K. Korpela 

"G.Sørtun" wrote:


Support for alternate stylesheets isn't a problem.


It certainly is, when native support is so limited and unknown to users - 
what good does it do that Firefox lets you select among them when most users 
know nothing about this feature and the browser does not indicate in any way 
that there are alternate stylesheets available?



See, and test on...
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/userStyle.html


Well it surely demonstrates a _solution_, which is relatively complicated 
and requires that client-side scripting and cookies be allowed, so there 
_is_ a problem.


The practical conclusion is that alternate stylesheets are not of much use 
_unless_ you also create an explicit user interface for selecting one of 
them and program code for making the selection a preferred stylesheet and 
for storing this selection so that it works across pages and across 
sessions.


The approach, with its benefits, also demonstrates why the alternate 
stylesheet concept in CSS recommendations would not be very useful even if 
browsers widely supported it: it is based on a per-page selection, with no 
defined mechanism or even a suggested idea that the selection be preserved. 
There's not much point in surfing around a site if you need to select a 
stylesheet every time you have moved to a new page


--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 


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Re: [css-d] Column overflow problem in IE8...

2011-03-27 Thread Coleen Holley 
Thank you for your response. The issue seems to be related more to the image
in the body section: (which is currently remmed out for testing purposes)
body
{
background-position: right;
height: 100%;
/*background-image: url('../Images/whiteroseborder.jpg');
background-repeat: repeat-y;*/
margin:0;
padding:0;
}

The problem I am now having is that the "middle" column in IE is now
floating over to the left-hand side in IE8 (only!) See here:
http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m229/ayliea/Programming%20Problems/?action=view¤t=middlecolumnerror.jpg

As you can see, with the image gone from the right-hand column, it is no
longer over flowing, but now my middle column (in IE only!) is flowing over
into the right hand column. The right column is set to height 100%:

#section-navigation
{
float: left;
width: 16%;
height: 100%;
padding: 20px 0;
margin: 0 2%;
display: inline;
z-index: 5;
}

Any suggestions?

Thanks very much for the help, it is very appreciated.

Coleen

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:59 AM, HallMarc Websites <
sa...@hallmarcwebsites.com> wrote:

>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org [mailto:
> css-d-boun...@lists.css-
> > discuss.org] On Behalf Of Coleen Holley
> > Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 8:53 AM
> > To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> > Subject: [css-d] Column overflow problem in IE8...
> >
> > I am re-vamping a website and am having some issues with my right-column
> > overflowing in IE8. Here's a link to see the screen shot: Sidebar
> Overflow
> > problem<%20http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m229/ayliea/Programmi
> > ng%20Problems/IE8SidebarError.jpg>
> >
> > Here's my .css code:
> >
> > #aside
> > {
> > background-color: transparent;
> > width: 18%;
> > height: 100%;
> > display: inline;
> > float:right;
> > margin: 0 10px 10px 10px;
> > vertical-align:top;
> > }
> >
> > #aside h3 { margin: 0; }
> >
> > #sidebar
> > {
> > position: absolute;
> > top: 150px;
> > width:17%;
> > padding-left: 15px;
> >  }
> >
> > and here's my HTML for that section:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Mother's tell their stories...
> > 
> >  action="../../cgi-sys/entropysearch.cgi">
> > Search Our Site
> >   > value="ahc" name="user" />
> >  > value="http://aheartbreakingchoice.com"; name="basehref" />
> >  />
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > I told her how sorry...
> > ~Brokenhearted Mother
> >  
> > 
> >
> > This seems to be working just fine in Firefox, Chrome and Opera, but of
> > course IE never plays by the same rules as everyone else. Can anyone give
> > me a little help with this issue?  Any help would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Coleen
> > __
> > 
> > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-
> > discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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> > signature database 5984 (20110325) __
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
>
> I see this so often, one of the first things you need in your CSS toolbox
> is
> a basic understanding of floats and padding/margins. This is where the
> focus
> needs to be.
>
> First, change the padding and margin in the body declarations to be
> padding:
> 0; margin:0;
> Next, in #primarycontent change the float to left then in #navdiv add
> clear:both;
> Also I see position: absolute in #sidebar change to position: relative;
> then
> you can easily position it. Remove the padding-left and the padding-right.
> Completely unnecessary.
>
> Once you start changing these you will see the #navdiv fall to the bottom
> of
> the page and your main content will move to the left closer to the sidebar.
>
> Looks like you have your work cut out for you. Start with these changes and
> then check what you have in the browsers.
>
> I will suggest a few sites to learn from:
> www.w3schools.com
> www.csszengarden.com
> http://meyerweb.com/
>
> That should be more than enough to get you on your way to understanding CSS
> design patterns.
>
> Thank you,
> Marc Hall
> HallMarc Websites
> 610.446.3346
> http://www.hallmarcwebsites.com/
>
> Spread the word about my services and earn money!
> Contact me for details.
>
>
>
>
>
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Su

Re: [css-d] Browser Support: Alternate Style Sheets?

2011-03-27 Thread HallMarc Websites 
Small correction, I left the wrong URL in there the snippet below reflects
the corrected call.



@import url("css/style800.css") media;

Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread HallMarc Websites 
OK Thank you for the details. I spent an hour looking over what you have and
the issue seems to be IE 7 & 8. I don't have nor do I worry about IE 6
anymore. I would suggest using the link I posted in the beginning of this
thread if you want to test IE 6. 

If you use that test page you will see that IE 8 (and below) honors the
@media rules and none of the  except where media="all".

With that I would use a CC to fix this for IE 7 & 8



@import url("./tests/bigger.css") media;

Re: [css-d] Browser Support: Alternate Style Sheets?

2011-03-27 Thread G.Sørtun 

Support for alternate stylesheets isn't a problem.

See, and test on...
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/userStyle.html

How useful alternate stylesheets are varies from site to site, and from 
visitor to visitor.


regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread Keith Purtell 
On 3/27/2011 7:39 AM, HallMarc Websites wrote:
>> I fixed the path to my style sheet for 800x600 screens but when I test it
> at
>> that screen setting, I still get the style sheet for bigger screens.
>> The validator says "unrecognized media screen and (max-device-width:
>> 800px)"
>> I'm steeling myself for the discovery of another dopey error.
>>
>> http://www.keithpurtell.com/kthings/
>>
>> - Keith Purtell
>>
> 
> use
> 
> and see this page
> http://www.ist.rit.edu/~jxs/services/mediaQueries.html 
> 
Change to 799px had no effect when viewed on my PC.

I'm interested in Alan's reply about that but the jargon w3.org uses in
its recommendations confounds me. I only understand real-world syntax as
it appears in Web page source.

The html tag was gone from most of my pages. I can guess what happened;
the power of "search-and-replace: entire site" can be disastrous.

* width: 940px is (I'm told by experienced people) a hack to get around
the fact that IE ignores max-width: 940px. I've temporarily removed the
hacks until I sort out these other issues.

The main style sheet always being called is precisely my problem. Here's
the "trigger" ... I built the site at my usual 1024x768 display setting
and it looked fine. Was reminded by several people this was unfair to
people with smaller screens. My first effort to accommodate by creating
liquid/responsive (still sorting out the distinctions between these
terms) css but I didn't have a firm enough comprehension to make it work
right. So I decided to at least provide for people on 800x600 screens.
Yes, I understand they are a minority, but if it's within my power to
respect such a minority I will try. I went into my Display control panel
and changed my screen to display at 800x600. Then I built a style sheet
within that environment. My test page was set up so that the only style
sheet called was the 800 version. It looked fine on my screen; I was
pleased. Then I added what I thought was a correct media redirect that
would call the 800x600 sheet if that was what the visitor was using. I
uploaded pages with the additional 800 redirect to the site. I fired up
Firefox and went to the site. It wasn't working. Did a force reload to
clear the cache; still wasn't working. Ran the html through a validation
check and it passed. Used one of my Web developer tool bars that has a
"View CSS" option that shows me which style sheet is in force. Sure
enough, it was calling the main sheet not the 800. Tested it in Chrome
(works great), Opera (needs a few more pixels clearance on the right),
IE (not working). Got mad and posted to the list.

Finally, my 800 style sheet a copy of the main style sheet with some
changes to width, etc. As for writing a screen-size check to call the
sheet for larger displays, won't that still leave me with the issue that
the media redirect isn't working? (Well, not working for in some cases.)

- Keith Purtell

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Re: [css-d] new IE display question

2011-03-27 Thread Chetan Crasta 
What you need are tabs that will expand or shrink with the containing
text. Try the Sliding Doors technique:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/

Regards,
Chetan Crasta

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Rory Bernstein  wrote:
> http://motherloadshow.com/
>
> I'm back with another question about this same page. The main nav bar: I am 
> just using a single BG image to create the look of the blue/green/red tabs, 
> and the links are a list of items.
>
> But in IE, the text gets spaced out further, and the text goes out to the 
> right, past the end of the red tab. Is there something wrong with my css that 
> can be fixed to make them stay "put"?
>
> Rory
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Re: [css-d] new IE display question

2011-03-27 Thread Rory Bernstein 
> Rory Bernstein wrote:
>> http://motherloadshow.com/
>> 
>> I'm back with another question about this same page. The main nav bar: I am 
>> just using a single BG image to create the look of the blue/green/red tabs, 
>> and the links are a list of items.
>> 
>> But in IE, the text gets spaced out further, and the text goes out to the 
>> right, past the end of the red tab. Is there something wrong with my css 
>> that can be fixed to make them stay "put"?
>> 
>> Rory
> 

On Mar 27, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:
> Doesn't just happen in IE.  In Seamonkey at my
> preferred settings, only the first seven fit.
> Ctrl + and Ctrl - wreak further havoc.
> 
> Philip Taylor
> 

OK, I will recode this a different way. There's no avoiding it!
Thanks, Rory
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Re: [css-d] new IE display question

2011-03-27 Thread Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) 

Doesn't just happen in IE.  In Seamonkey at my
preferred settings, only the first seven fit.
Ctrl + and Ctrl - wreak further havoc.

Philip Taylor


Rory Bernstein wrote:

http://motherloadshow.com/

I'm back with another question about this same page. The main nav bar: I am 
just using a single BG image to create the look of the blue/green/red tabs, and 
the links are a list of items.

But in IE, the text gets spaced out further, and the text goes out to the right, past the 
end of the red tab. Is there something wrong with my css that can be fixed to make them 
stay "put"?

Rory

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[css-d] new IE display question

2011-03-27 Thread Rory Bernstein 
http://motherloadshow.com/

I'm back with another question about this same page. The main nav bar: I am 
just using a single BG image to create the look of the blue/green/red tabs, and 
the links are a list of items. 

But in IE, the text gets spaced out further, and the text goes out to the 
right, past the end of the red tab. Is there something wrong with my css that 
can be fixed to make them stay "put"? 

Rory
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[css-d] Browser Support: Alternate Style Sheets?

2011-03-27 Thread Freelance Traveller 
While I haven't checked recently, I do remember that Opera, several
versions back, had support for selecting among several stylesheets, if
the web page had several stylesheets, some of whose REL attribute was
"alternate stylesheet".

Do any browsers support that today?  If so, which ones - and which
versions? Is it a useful feature at all, or is it a "don't even bother"
feature? Are there any special considerations to take into account when
using it?  Are there any good references that discuss this feature in
depth?


-- 
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller
The Electronic Fan-Supported
Traveller® Fanzine and Resource

edi...@freelancetraveller.com
http://www.freelancetraveller.com
http://come.to/freelancetraveller
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®Traveller is a registered trademark of
Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2009. Use of
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referenced materials is not intended to
infringe or devalue the trademark.

Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following
enterprises for hosting services:

CyberNET Web Hosting (http://www.cyberwebhosting.net)
The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com)
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Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread David Laakso 

On 3/27/11 1:20 AM, Keith Purtell wrote:

I fixed the path to my style sheet for 800x600 screens but when I test
it at that screen setting, I still get the style sheet for bigger screens.
The validator says "unrecognized media screen and (max-device-width: 800px)"
I'm steeling myself for the discovery of another dopey error.

http://www.keithpurtell.com/kthings/

- Keith Purtell




You can't keep doing things over the same way and expect they will turn 
out differently...


This is the page I put up a couple of weeks ago that you decided to 
ignore:-) .


The following fast and dirty media queries have been added this morning:
1/  Drag from a full widow to the "kick-in" at 600px.
@media (max-width: 600px) {--}
2/ Drag from 600px to 480px and "high-end" mobile "kicks-in."
@media only screen and (max-width: 480px), only screen and 
(max-device-width: 480px) { ...  }


The media query stuff at bottom of  style sheet---

Go to:

and click:
things.htm

Files will be on the server for 24 hours.

Best,
Studs T.
Chicago


--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/

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Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread HallMarc Websites 
And now for the rest of the story;
Why are you using this
* width: 940px;
in some of your CSS declarations? I have never heard of or seen until now,
using the universal selector inside. I state it this way because I do not
know everything and this would not be the first time I learn something new.
;o) 

Most of what I can find about the  usage is that it will not
validate as its usage is not normative at this time. It works just as
intended, just won't validate.

same goes for the alternative @media all screen . It won't validate yet
it still works.

As for the main style sheet still loading on screens 800px and below you
could just make sure any styles are included in the 800 stylesheet so they
are over written or just write another screen size check that will only load
the main if the max screen size is over 800px. 

I apologize for ant confusion I caused in my earlier responses and have
created a new app for my laptop that requires proof that I have had my
coffee first before I am allowed to answer emails !!! lol 

Thank you,
Marc Hall
HallMarc Websites
610.446.3346
http://www.hallmarcwebsites.com/ 

Spread the word about my services and earn money! 
Contact me for details.




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Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread Alan Gresley 

On 28/03/2011 1:13 AM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:


On Mar 27, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Alan Gresley wrote:



I don't see that working. Any the HTML specs [1] has this.


  


Are you saying that (max-device-width: 799px) is part of a descriptor?


Hmm, Alan:
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/
ch 1 background
ch 2

Philippe
--
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/



Oh, stand corrected, I was looking at that spec last night. I wish they 
would have all possible examples.




--
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] How to centre a DIV?

2011-03-27 Thread Geoff Lane 
On Sunday, March 27, 2011, 2:23:42 PM, Alan Gresley wrote:

> What bothers me with this is that the true IE7 centered blocks by adding
> text-align; center to the parent. What version of IE are you checking in 
> Geoff?

IE8. I've also got a Win2k virtual machine with IE6, but the lack of
respect for setting both left and right margins to 'auto' was noted in
8.0.6001 (as noted upthread) and I hadn't then checked in IE6.

-- 
Geoff

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Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread HallMarc Websites 
After a bit more inspecting I see two things:
1) your opening  tag is missing
2) your mainstyle.css is ALWAYS being called

And when I change my settings to 800x600 your style800 sheet is called which
means your link ref is working as intended. 

Can you please provide more detailed steps as to what triggers the issue you
are seeing?

Thank you,
Marc Hall
HallMarc Websites
610.446.3346
http://www.hallmarcwebsites.com/ 

Spread the word about my services and earn money! 
Contact me for details.





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Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh 

On Mar 27, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Alan Gresley wrote:

> 
> I don't see that working. Any the HTML specs [1] has this.
> 
> 
>-- single or comma-separated list of media descriptors
>  -->
> 
> 
> Are you saying that (max-device-width: 799px) is part of a descriptor?

Hmm, Alan:
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/
ch 1 background
ch 2

Philippe
--
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/






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Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread Alan Gresley 

On 27/03/2011 11:39 PM, HallMarc Websites wrote:

I fixed the path to my style sheet for 800x600 screens but when I test it

at

that screen setting, I still get the style sheet for bigger screens.
The validator says "unrecognized media screen and (max-device-width:
800px)"
I'm steeling myself for the discovery of another dopey error.

http://www.keithpurtell.com/kthings/

- Keith Purtell



use

and see this page
http://www.ist.rit.edu/~jxs/services/mediaQueries.html

Thank you,
Marc Hall



I don't see that working. Any the HTML specs [1] has this.


  


Are you saying that (max-device-width: 799px) is part of a descriptor?



1. 



--
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Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] How to centre a DIV?

2011-03-27 Thread Alan Gresley 

On 27/03/2011 6:48 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

HallMarc Websites wrote:


Well, I believe Quirks mode is in control here as stated before. In
this case try this:


 -- The running text goes here -- 


Yes, it's a hack and in Quirks mode Hacking is the way to go
unfortunately. This will center the p element in quirks mode.


The mystic thing is that it also centers it in "Standards Mode". I had
to recollect what I have previously found about presentational HTML vs.
CSS,
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html2css.html#al
The align="center" attribute (which is hidden here, since
... is just short for ...) is
defined, in HTML specs, as centering each content line. But browsers
additionally center each inner block, like the  element here. This
violates HTML 4 recommendations, but it corresponds to the description
in the HTML5 drafts:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html#alignment


So despite being a hack that assumes "nonstandard" processing, it
appears to be a safe hack.

This is different from using text-align: center in an outer block: while
it may work on some old browsers, modern browsers (at least in
"Standards Mode") implement the code as per CSS recommendations, i.e.
they just center lines, without centering inner blocks. Generally, in
"Standards Mode", browsers try to follow CSS recommendations to the
letter but may deviate from HTML recommendations (preferring established
tradition to the letter of the recommendations).



What bothers me with this is that the true IE7 centered blocks by adding 
text-align; center to the parent. What version of IE are you checking in 
Geoff?


In IE6 and IE7 the following HTML with comment throws both these 
browsers into quirks mode.





  float



In IE7 mode in IE9, the above block is centered by the horizontal auto 
margins and the float is contained. The true IE7 would also have the 
block on the left.




--
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] My media redirect is not kicking in

2011-03-27 Thread HallMarc Websites 
> I fixed the path to my style sheet for 800x600 screens but when I test it
at
> that screen setting, I still get the style sheet for bigger screens.
> The validator says "unrecognized media screen and (max-device-width:
> 800px)"
> I'm steeling myself for the discovery of another dopey error.
> 
> http://www.keithpurtell.com/kthings/
> 
> - Keith Purtell
> 

use

and see this page
http://www.ist.rit.edu/~jxs/services/mediaQueries.html 

Thank you,
Marc Hall
HallMarc Websites
610.446.3346
http://www.hallmarcwebsites.com/ 

Spread the word about my services and earn money! 
Contact me for details.




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Re: [css-d] How to centre a DIV?

2011-03-27 Thread Jukka K. Korpela 

HallMarc Websites wrote:


Well, I believe Quirks mode is in control here as stated before. In
this case try this:

  
 -- The running text goes here -- 
  

Yes, it's a hack and in Quirks mode Hacking is the way to go
unfortunately. This will center the p element in quirks mode.


The mystic thing is that it also centers it in "Standards Mode". I had to 
recollect what I have previously found about presentational HTML vs. CSS,

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html2css.html#al
The align="center" attribute (which is hidden here, since 
... is just short for ...) is 
defined, in HTML specs, as centering each content line. But browsers 
additionally center each inner block, like the  element here. This 
violates HTML 4 recommendations, but it corresponds to the description in 
the HTML5 drafts:

http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html#alignment

So despite being a hack that assumes "nonstandard" processing, it appears to 
be a safe hack.


This is different from using text-align: center in an outer block: while it 
may work on some old browsers, modern browsers (at least in "Standards 
Mode") implement the code as per CSS recommendations, i.e. they just center 
lines, without centering inner blocks. Generally, in "Standards Mode", 
browsers try to follow CSS recommendations to the letter but may deviate 
from HTML recommendations (preferring established tradition to the letter of 
the recommendations).


Please note that in this approach, text lines will be centered in the 
content of the  element, including the inner  element. This is 
usually undesirable, so you may want to use text-align: left for the  
element. The  element itself will still be centered as a block, because 
it's the outer element's settings that cause that.


--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 


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