Re: [css-d] Ready for Pre-processors?

[Barney Carroll]

Jens, a big advantage of CSS pre-processors is that they can facilitate
management of selectors in the manner you describe. Indeed, the advantages
you cite are one of the key reasons large teams decide to adopt
pre-processors in the first place.

A terrible prejudice I have towards the authoritative experts on this list
is that there is a perennial attitude geared towards hand-pruning the style
sheets of small & consistent sites, whose any change in content
or requirements would duly be enacted through a conscientious
reconsideration of every line of code by one author.

CSS pre-processors appeal mostly to people who work with very large web
projects with many developers of different levels of ability, which must be
built to order in limited time, and then set loose in to the wild.

As a brief example, SASS's 'extensions' allow the definition of a rule
under a given name (for example 'clearfix'), which can be called in by any
number of selectors: the compiled CSS then makes sure that all selectors
invoking this abstract are condensed into one rule, without the author
having to manually insert the selector into that declaration, and without
the contrivance of appending a 'clearfix' class in the markup. This in turn
works wonders with version control and other paradigms suited to large
teams working on the same project.

Of course, the output CSS can be under-optimised. You may find that bytes
could have been shaved off, and decide that this is worth taking action
over. But that's true of anything: pre-processors are definitely not
scornful of this attitude; they offer a way to sustematise it.


-- 
Regards,
Barney Carroll

barney.carr...@gmail.com
+44 7429 177278

barneycarroll.com
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Re: [css-d] Ready for Pre-processors?

[MiB]

apr 27 2014 12:18 Jens O. Meiert :

> Just following with one ear but why would that be irrelevant?
Read the OP.
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Re: [css-d] CSS menu at 320px

[Tom Livingston]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Philip Taylor  wrote:
>
>
> Tom Livingston wrote:
>
>> Actually, I believe it has. I get those as do some others, and I only
>> get them as replies to CSS-D threads. Mr. Meyer is aware of this
>> issue.
>
>
> But what can he do about it, since there is no way for him to know
> which of the list subscribers has set up an auto-responder to send
> these spam messages off-list ?  The list has not been "compromised",
> but a list member is abusing his/her membership in a covert manner.
>
> Philip Taylor


Perhaps I'm using "list" in a more general term. Someone *on* the list
has been compromised. And you are correct, it is difficult to figure
out where it's coming from. My main point was that I don't get these
messages outside of this list.


-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] CSS menu at 320px

[Philip Taylor]

Tom Livingston wrote:


Actually, I believe it has. I get those as do some others, and I only
get them as replies to CSS-D threads. Mr. Meyer is aware of this
issue.


But what can he do about it, since there is no way for him to know
which of the list subscribers has set up an auto-responder to send
these spam messages off-list ?  The list has not been "compromised",
but a list member is abusing his/her membership in a covert manner.

Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] CSS menu at 320px

[Tom Livingston]

Actually, I believe it has. I get those as do some others, and I only
get them as replies to CSS-D threads. Mr. Meyer is aware of this
issue.

On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Philip Taylor  wrote:
> No, by subscribing to this list, you make your e-mail address
> accessible to others; you then risk receiving spam, as you
> have done in this case.
>
> Philip Taylor
> 
>
> John wrote:
>
>> Uh…I got 2 response to my question which were obviously
>> spam..individuals taking photos of themselves..Has the list been
>> compromised?
>>
>> John
>
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-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] CSS menu at 320px

[Philip Taylor]

No, by subscribing to this list, you make your e-mail address
accessible to others; you then risk receiving spam, as you
have done in this case.

Philip Taylor

John wrote:


Uh…I got 2 response to my question which were obviously
spam..individuals taking photos of themselves..Has the list been
compromised?

John

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Re: [css-d] CSS menu at 320px

[John]

Uh…I got 2 response to my question which were obviously spam..individuals 
taking photos of themselves..Has the list been compromised?

John
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Re: [css-d] Ready for Pre-processors?

[Jens O. Meiert]

> > 
>
> Irrelevant to the subject here, which is about the discussion of preprocessors
> on this list.

Just following with one ear but why would that be irrelevant? By that
logic, if you were to buy a car and somebody warned you it would
explode once you get in, you’d ask not to be interrupted while signing
the contract? I argue general concerns always worth listening to.

My two cents: assuming the project is complex enough to even warrant
something like a preprocessor, it’s still better to exploit “native”
optimization options first. Now in the age of ever-growing specs
(feature creep) and ever-growing tools (preprocessors &c.), few
explore such options. (That’s a problem for all of us.) My favorite
example is that even something simple as using every declaration just
once [1,2] can reduce CSS size and complexity by around 20% (empirical
value). That’s not peanuts if you’re talking style sheets with 1,000s
of lines.


[1] http://meiert.com/en/blog/20080515/css-organization-and-efficiency/
[2] https://developers.google.com/speed/articles/optimizing-css

-- 
Jens O. Meiert
http://meiert.com/en/
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