Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Phil Palmieri]

This seems to work for me in most cases

Dynamically load your CSS file with a random query string (if you are  
scripting).
It makes your browser think its a different file.

PHP Example: (sorry i don't know ASP, JSP etc.



This was an old trick from the IE4 days, how we got around people  
caching .swf movies

Phil
MacSoftReview.com



On Feb 16, 2006, at 2:02 PM, Bill Moseley wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 04:22:46PM +, James MacLeod wrote:
> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files  
> short of
> clearing it's cache?
>>
>> As well as setting the cache preferences to 0/always refresh, I've
>> gotten into the habit of holding down Shift + Command + Alt when
>> reloading. Not official, bu seems to do the trick for CSS files, at
>> least.
>
> Unfortunately, that doesn't work on the version of IE I'm using.  No
> command combination seems to change the behavior of the way IE
> "reloads".
>
> Of course, this is a caching issue.  If the server tells the browser
> that's it's ok to cache a file for some amount of time then, well,
> it's well within its "rights" to not fetch that again until that time
> has expired.  Makes testing a pain, unless you can control those
> headers or you use something nice like Firefox where you can force it
> to reload.
>
> That was my solution -- I just set my server to send no-cache headers
> on all my files while testing.
>
>
> So, Firefox doesn't re-request a page that is cached unless you hit
> reload.  Reload in Firefox does force a reload for the page you are
> viewing, but for loaded pages (e.g. css files and images) Firefox  
> sends
> a request with the If-Modified-Since header.
>
> Here's an example for http://bumby:3000/index.html.
>
> *All* files returned by the server say it's ok to cache the file for a
> day.  So after the initial page load just going back to http:// 
> bumby:3000/index.html
> does NOT make another request to the server.  Firefox just displays
> what's in it's cache just like it should.
>
> Hitting the reload button (or shift-R or F5) results in these  
> requests:
>
> http://bumby:3000/index.html  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/ifp_logo_sm.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/input_bg.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/img_navarrowblue.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/div_curve.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/right_arror_blue.gif  -- 304
>
> So reload always reloads the current page, but not the other pages.
> Of course, if any of those had changed then the server would return
> those instead returning the 304.
>
> But hitting the reload button while holding down the shift button
> forces reload of all files:
>
> http://bumby:3000/index.html  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/ifp_logo_sm.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/input_bg.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/img_navarrowblue.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/div_curve.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/right_arror_blue.gif  -- 200
>
> Again, Shift-reload isn't really needed since any changes to the
> loaded files would be noticed and return 200 instead of 304.  So if
> you update a css file then reload should be fine.
>
> Note that if that index.html page was set to *not* cache (say it's
> dynamic content) then Firefox will always fetch that page when going
> to that URL, but still respects the other file's cache headers.  Just
> like you would expect.
>
>
>
> Now, so how lame is IE 5.2 on my Tiger iBook?  (As if I have to ask!)
>
> IE has a number of cache settings.  None make very much sense.
>
> With "Always" set going back to a URL makes these requests:
>
> http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 304
>
> So "Aways" would seem to the best bet, for at least the CSS files.
>
> With "Never" set it does this instead:
>
>  http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200
>
> Note that about.html is suppose to be cached:
>
> $ HEAD http://bumby:3000/about.html
> 200 OK
> Cache-Control: max-age=86400
> Connection: close
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
> Content-Length: 7227
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> Expires: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
> Last-Modified: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:41:23 GMT
> Client-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
> Client-Peer: 192.168.1.2:3000
> Client

Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Bill Moseley]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 04:22:46PM +, James MacLeod wrote:
> >>> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
> >>> clearing it's cache?
> 
> As well as setting the cache preferences to 0/always refresh, I've
> gotten into the habit of holding down Shift + Command + Alt when
> reloading. Not official, bu seems to do the trick for CSS files, at
> least.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work on the version of IE I'm using.  No
command combination seems to change the behavior of the way IE
"reloads".

Of course, this is a caching issue.  If the server tells the browser
that's it's ok to cache a file for some amount of time then, well,
it's well within its "rights" to not fetch that again until that time
has expired.  Makes testing a pain, unless you can control those
headers or you use something nice like Firefox where you can force it
to reload.

That was my solution -- I just set my server to send no-cache headers
on all my files while testing.


So, Firefox doesn't re-request a page that is cached unless you hit
reload.  Reload in Firefox does force a reload for the page you are
viewing, but for loaded pages (e.g. css files and images) Firefox sends
a request with the If-Modified-Since header.

Here's an example for http://bumby:3000/index.html.

*All* files returned by the server say it's ok to cache the file for a
day.  So after the initial page load just going back to 
http://bumby:3000/index.html
does NOT make another request to the server.  Firefox just displays
what's in it's cache just like it should.

Hitting the reload button (or shift-R or F5) results in these requests:

http://bumby:3000/index.html  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/ifp_logo_sm.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/input_bg.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/img_navarrowblue.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/div_curve.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/right_arror_blue.gif  -- 304

So reload always reloads the current page, but not the other pages.
Of course, if any of those had changed then the server would return
those instead returning the 304.

But hitting the reload button while holding down the shift button
forces reload of all files:

http://bumby:3000/index.html  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/ifp_logo_sm.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/input_bg.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/img_navarrowblue.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/div_curve.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/right_arror_blue.gif  -- 200

Again, Shift-reload isn't really needed since any changes to the
loaded files would be noticed and return 200 instead of 304.  So if
you update a css file then reload should be fine.

Note that if that index.html page was set to *not* cache (say it's
dynamic content) then Firefox will always fetch that page when going
to that URL, but still respects the other file's cache headers.  Just
like you would expect.



Now, so how lame is IE 5.2 on my Tiger iBook?  (As if I have to ask!)

IE has a number of cache settings.  None make very much sense.

With "Always" set going back to a URL makes these requests:

http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 304

So "Aways" would seem to the best bet, for at least the CSS files.

With "Never" set it does this instead:

 http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200

Note that about.html is suppose to be cached:

$ HEAD http://bumby:3000/about.html
200 OK
Cache-Control: max-age=86400
Connection: close
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
Content-Length: 7227
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Expires: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
Last-Modified: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:41:23 GMT
Client-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
Client-Peer: 192.168.1.2:3000
Client-Response-Num: 1

So I wonder why IE is fetching that page again?

Hitting "Refresh" in "Never" mode does this:

http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 304

Why only busy.gif?  It's the only image on the page that is not loaded via
css.

NO combination of shift/option/ctr keys will make IE reload the CSS
files in Never mode.

Note above that IE never checks to see if images loaded via css have
changed.  Even clicking "Empty Now" to empty the cache doesn't force
it to reload or even see if those images have changed.

Of course, anyone using IE on OS X 

Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Nick Fitzsimons]

>>When testing in that browser, I would almost always keep another window
>>open that points directly to the style sheet. Hit the reload on that,
>> then
>>switch to your page(s).
>
> That's the same thing I do.  Even cranking the cache timeout down
> to 0, as others have suggested, didn't always work for me.  It
> probably had to do with pulling the files directly off my hard drive
> instead of going through an HTTP server, but I never exerted the
> effort to find out for sure.

No, it's nothing to do with using the file protocol (which I presume is
what you mean). I always do my development using http, and I had the same
issues with IE-Mac.

For images, one trick is to use the "View image" (or whatever it says)
context menu item, then force a proper reload, then hit the back button.

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/

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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:05 AM -0800 2/16/06, Larry Israel wrote:

>>  Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
>>  clearing it's cache?
>
>When testing in that browser, I would almost always keep another window
>open that points directly to the style sheet. Hit the reload on that, then
>switch to your page(s).

That's the same thing I do.  Even cranking the cache timeout down 
to 0, as others have suggested, didn't always work for me.  It 
probably had to do with pulling the files directly off my hard drive 
instead of going through an HTTP server, but I never exerted the 
effort to find out for sure.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
"CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously."
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[James MacLeod]

Missed the mac bit apologies. Are you needing this for your personal  
testing or is it to makes sure that the people viewing your site have  
the most up-to-date version?

James

On Feb 16, 2006, at 16:30, Mark Howells wrote:

> The force refresh on the mac is just hold the shift key. Just hold
> shift and click the refresh button or press the F5 or F6 button I
> forget which.

Would be nice if it worked properly in IE, though... it doesn't
always. Think that's where the thread started. (F5 doesn't work in
all browsers, either, it's normally Command+R.)

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Mark Howells]

> The force refresh on the mac is just hold the shift key. Just hold  
> shift and click the refresh button or press the F5 or F6 button I  
> forget which.

Would be nice if it worked properly in IE, though... it doesn't  
always. Think that's where the thread started. (F5 doesn't work in  
all browsers, either, it's normally Command+R.)

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[James MacLeod]

The force refresh on the mac is just hold the shift key. Just hold  
shift and click the refresh button or press the F5 or F6 button I  
forget which.

James
On Feb 16, 2006, at 16:11, Mark Howells wrote:

>>> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
>>> clearing it's cache?

As well as setting the cache preferences to 0/always refresh, I've
gotten into the habit of holding down Shift + Command + Alt when
reloading. Not official, bu seems to do the trick for CSS files, at
least.

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Mark Howells]

>>> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
>>> clearing it's cache?

As well as setting the cache preferences to 0/always refresh, I've  
gotten into the habit of holding down Shift + Command + Alt when  
reloading. Not official, bu seems to do the trick for CSS files, at  
least.

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:05 PM, Larry Israel wrote:

>> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
>> clearing it's cache?
>
> When testing in that browser, I would almost always keep another  
> window
> open that points directly to the style sheet. Hit the reload on  
> that, then
> switch to your page(s). You could do the same for one or two stubborn
> images. If you spot some images that aren't up to date, point to them
> directly and reload It's short of reloading *all* files, but I've
> found it to do what I need in many situations.

And set the cache to zero (Always update pages)
Preferences >Advanced>...

Philippe

Philippe Wittenbergh




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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Larry Israel]

> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
> clearing it's cache?

When testing in that browser, I would almost always keep another window
open that points directly to the style sheet. Hit the reload on that, then
switch to your page(s). You could do the same for one or two stubborn
images. If you spot some images that aren't up to date, point to them
directly and reload It's short of reloading *all* files, but I've
found it to do what I need in many situations.

Larry
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Steve Axthelm]

On 16:59, Bill Moseley wrote:

> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
> clearing it's cache?  Any magic shift-reload kind of thing?
[snip]
> Even clearing the cache doesn't seem to make it reload images loaded
> in css.   Have to clear the cache and exit IE completely.

Close all windows and then clear the cache. That seems to do it for me,
at least most of the time. Occasionally it's really stubborn and I have
to quit the app.

Cheers,


-Steve

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Roger Roelofs]

Bill,

On Feb 15, 2006, at 7:59 PM, Bill Moseley wrote:

> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
> clearing it's cache?  Any magic shift-reload kind of thing?
>
> Even clearing the cache doesn't seem to make it reload images loaded
> in css.   Have to clear the cache and exit IE completely.  Grrr.

Option-Reload is all there is.  When I'm doing ie/mac debugging, I 
create a test page with the relavent css or javascript in the head 
section.  It is a pain, but I've found no reliable way to force ie to 
re download external files.

hth
-- 
Roger Roelofs
"Remember, if you’re headed in the wrong direction,
God allows U-turns!"
  ~Allison Gappa Bottke
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[css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Bill Moseley]

No surprise to anyone here, but IE sure is a PITA to work with. 

Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
clearing it's cache?  Any magic shift-reload kind of thing?

I've got it set to "Always" update pages, but all that does is
request with If-Modified-Since.  And even then it doesn't check files
included inside style sheets.  Make it real fun to debug with.

Even clearing the cache doesn't seem to make it reload images loaded
in css.   Have to clear the cache and exit IE completely.  Grrr.


-- 
Bill Moseley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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